Investiture and Find Familiar

[sir_argo]

The write up for Ceremony:Investiture is pretty short and straight forward. Meaning that it doesn't seem to have many restrictions. Just any 1st level spell... no mention of class.

Could a Cleric 1/Wizard 1 cast Ceremony:Investiture with Find Familiar, on each person in their party so that everyone has a familiar?

I'm not sure they thought this one through.

[Sigreid]

I would say no as it can only be cast as a ritual. Though I dont think it would really harm anything

[tkuremento]

I would say no as it can only be cast as a ritual. Though I dont think it would really harm anything

"Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual."

I've also checked the language of Find Familiar, Ceremony: Investiture , and Wizard's Spellcasting: Rituals. I see nothing that says Find Familiar HAS to be cast as a ritual.

[Sigreid]

"Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual."

I've also checked the language of Find Familiar, Ceremony: Investiture , and Wizard's Spellcasting: Rituals. I see nothing that says Find Familiar HAS to be cast as a ritual.

Ok, I'm pretty much assuming it's a ritual only from the 1 hour casting time. Fair enough.

[Millstone85]

Ok, I'm pretty much assuming it's a ritual only from the 1 hour casting time. Fair enough.As a ritual, it would take 1 hour and 10 minutes. :smallwink:

[tkuremento]

Ok, I'm pretty much assuming it's a ritual only from the 1 hour casting time. Fair enough.

I mean most people would probably not have it prepared but know it and thus cast it as a ritual, plus doing so saves a spell slot. However you need to have it prepared and spend a slot for Ceremony anyway. The only problem is they literally have to start casting right away else the one hour won't fit in the time Ceremony requires, right?

[Trinsian]

Could a Cleric 1/Wizard 1 cast Ceremony:Investiture with Find Familiar, on each person in their party so that everyone has a familiar?

You don't even need to be multiclass. Just use Ceremony:Investiture to give the wizard in your party Ceremony:Investiture, and he can use that to pass find familiar out to everyone.

[LudicSavant]

You don't even need to be multiclass. Just use Ceremony:Investiture to give the wizard in your party Ceremony:Investiture, and he can use that to pass find familiar out to everyone.

This. This is how cheesy Ceremony is.

[Naanomi]

You don't even need to be multiclass. Just use Ceremony:Investiture to give the wizard in your party Ceremony:Investiture, and he can use that to pass find familiar out to everyone.
Or be an arcane domain cleric... or a bard who poached it?

[sir_argo]

As a ritual, it would take 1 hour and 10 minutes. :smallwink:

Aha! There is the gotcha.

If you haven't cast your spell after an hour, the Investiture ends. Technically, since the Investiture lasts and hour and Find Familiar takes an hour to cast, it is mathematically impossible to complete FF before Investiture ends.



Ironically, in my group we have a few spell gems and can get around the casting time.

[tkuremento]

Aha! There is the gotcha.

If you haven't cast your spell after an hour, the Investiture ends. Technically, since the Investiture lasts and hour and Find Familiar takes an hour to cast, it is mathematically impossible to complete FF before Investiture ends.



Ironically, in my group we have a few spell gems and can get around the casting time.

You don't have to cast it as a ritual. That means you have exactly one hour. Unless I am mistaken, 1 hour is within 1 hour exactly.

[Erys]

You don't have to cast it as a ritual. That means you have exactly one hour. Unless I am mistaken, 1 hour is within 1 hour exactly.


Investiture.
You touch one willing humanoid. Choose one 1st-level spell you have prepared and expend a spell slot and any material
components as if you were casting that spell. The spell has no effect. Instead, the target can cast this spell once without having to expend a spell slot or use material components. If the target doesn’t cast the spell within 1 hour, the invested spell is lost.

It does appear the spells are being performed simultaneously. Technically I think this is a legal means to give everyone a familiar. Though the cost does become multiplicative.

Its funny, I don't usually target familiars; but there is good chance that motto may change a bit if there was suddenly a loyal unkindness of ravens following the party and doing their bidding.

[tkuremento]

It does appear the spells are being performed simultaneously. Technically I think this is a legal means to give everyone a familiar. Though the cost does become multiplicative.

Its funny, I don't usually target familiars; but there is good chance that motto may change a bit if there was suddenly a loyal unkindness of ravens following the party and doing their bidding.

I'd personally take a bat, crab, rat, or spider before I took a raven. In the campaign with my Gnome Wizard (avatar), I was allowed to have a badger as a familiar because gnomes. I even took Mold Earth to dig it lil naptime holes.

[sir_argo]

You don't have to cast it as a ritual. That means you have exactly one hour. Unless I am mistaken, 1 hour is within 1 hour exactly.

No no no... not from the Cleric, but the target party member.

12:00:00am Ralph the Cleric/Wizard casts Ceremony:investiture + Find Familiar on Joe the Paladin
1:00:00am Ralph completes the Investiture spell
1:00:01am Joe begins casting Find Familiar
2:00:00am Investiture wears off 1 second before Joe finishes casting Find Familiar

The only way to rationalize that Joe gets the spell off within his 1 hour time limit is if he begins casting at the exact moment that Ralph completes Investiture (1:00:00am). If he is even a split second too late, he fails. Even if Joe starts at the exact right moment, it would still be a decision if it is < or <=

To me, this is an easy way to foil the exploit. Just rule that it is < and then Joe can't finish in time.

[tkuremento]

No no no... not from the Cleric, but the target party member.

12:00:00am Ralph the Cleric/Wizard casts Ceremony:investiture + Find Familiar on Joe the Paladin
1:00:00am Ralph completes the Investiture spell
1:00:01am Joe begins casting Find Familiar
2:00:00am Investiture wears off 1 second before Joe finishes casting Find Familiar

The only way to rationalize that Joe gets the spell off within his 1 hour time limit is if he begins casting at the exact moment that Ralph completes Investiture (1:00:00am). If he is even a split second too late, he fails. Even if Joe starts at the exact right moment, it would still be a decision if it is < or <=

To me, this is an easy way to foil the exploit. Just rule that it is < and then Joe can't finish in time.

I believe at this point it is a bit too pedantic. I'd allow it because it specifies an hour. This is still ultimately two hours of downtime just for one familiar. In a party of 4 that is 6 hours if you want to do it back to back to back. It could even take 30 extra minutes (10 per) if Ceremony is cast as a ritual instead. And this is assuming you aren't needing to cast find familiar yourself.

Edit: Also since even light has a travel time, it would be impossible with your statement and wouldn't even need a ruling of < or <= since the synapses in the brain don't even fire at the speed of light. The only possible person to MAYBE have a chance would be the Flash as he can travel faster than the speed of light but you could argue that that speed would still have a perceivable time by some supernatural being or something.