Best multiclasses... if not for MAD

[Sans.]

Your stats are all 14. Go.

[Specter]

Oathbreaker/Necromancer. Let your minions do the fighting for you.

In detail: put your skeleton archers surrounding you (at least 8, for the 5-feet shield and Aura of Hate). Have a polearm ready to attack beyond them. Counterspell anyone trying to blast you and your posse.

[Citan]

Your stats are all 14. Go.
You know, there are several similar threads around recently. ^^

Having 14 all around is not that bad.
The main problems are...
1. AC
2. Offense somewhere.
3. Saves.

1. AC
- Stick with medium armor and suck it up, you will end with 17 AC not so bad.
- Stack up resource-less defenses (Fighting Style, "free" Mage Armor, wielding shield)
- Put 1 more in STR and don heavy armor.
- Consider that you will stay out of melee so you are fine with lower AC.

2. Offense: Melee attacks are the easiest, considering how many different ways to have to up your to-hit (Wolf Barbarian, Bless, Shove etc).
On the opposite end, save or suck spells will be much less interesting.
So...
- Either build up on melee and work with other resources (self spells, party tactics)
- Or build up ranged weapon attacks, stacking feature benefits (Fighting Style, Sharpshooter) and bumping DEX.
- Or aim to be a good caster and bump your casting stat any chance you get (meaning no/small multiclass), while getting another option for mundane turn (Shillelagh/Sacred Weapon).


3. Saves: you won't suck but won't be good either.
If you want to be great at specific ones which are not your starting one, beyond Resilient the options are...
- DEX: Shield Master or Evasion (Monk, Rogue).
- CON: Warcaster, Bladesinger.
- WIS: Rogue's lvl 14 feature.

If you want to be good overall, then only Diamond Soul (Monk 14) or Aura of Protection/Warding (Paladin 6/7) will be helpful.


Considering all this, one great multiclass (I certainly would not daresay it is the best, there are many ways to go at this) is probably something like...
Undying Light Fiend Warlock 3
Draconic Sorcerer 6.
Ancients Paladin 7
Bladesinger Wizard 2
Rogue 2.
You are mobile (Cunning Action + potential Haste), has great melee (Shillelagh+GFB+2*2 bonus damage) and ranged (Eldricht Blast) cantrip, great concentration (Sorcerer + Bladesong), good enough AC (considering you bump DEX twice you can get 13+4+2), great saves (+2 everywhere) and resistance to magic.
Not "optimized" but still good, pretty MAD, and pretty fun.

An optimized variant could be to drop Wizard altogether, go any race giving +2 STR and use the two remaining levels to get more ASIs (Warlock 4, Paladin 8).
That way you can wield heavy armor + shield, bump STR and CHA or even keep STR to 16 and CHA to 20 because Shillelagh, and take Sentinel + Polearm Master feats. You lose some versatility and mobility/stealth but you are even more efficient overall.
Possibly more than other single-class builds with starting array or point-buy because you are extremely sturdy (+5 to all saves) and have a powerful +10 bonus to GreenFlameBlade, Burning Hands, Searing Smite and Fireball, in addition to Bless and Divine Smite.

Another build, much simpler, is Eldricht Knight 11+any caster. Works well with Wizard on DEX build (better saves, concentration, spellcasting), Cleric (buffs, healing) or Sorcerer (metamagics).
As long as you keep 11 for Eldricht Strike and Third Extra Attack, you can mix and match as you would like.
For example, a two-weapon fighter: EK 12 / Bladesinger Wizard 2 / Life Cleric 1 / Draconic Sorcerer 5: numerous ASI mean you can max DEX, bump either INT or CHA, and be a great all-around player, either single-target (weapon cantrip), multi-target (Attack, AOE spells) and support (healing, buffing).

[Tanarii]

You know, there are several similar threads around recently. ^^

Having 14 all around is not that bad.
The main problems are...
1. AC
2. Offense somewhere.
3. Saves.It's actually very good scores. First of all, it's 30 pt PB, so def more than 'balanced'. Offense is perfectly acceptable from level 1, where a 15 in your primary is sufficient, ie same +2 bonus as a 14. AC is solid based on class as usual, as well as opening up Medium Armor + somewhat Stealthy option for traditionally HA wearing classes (Fighter, Paladin, some Clerics). Good Hit Points. No very weak saves. No very weak skill checks. And you can easily get your offensive score up with ASIs. If it was me, I'd plan to ASI at levels 4 & 12. (I generally assume games won't go further than that.) For multiclass, MAD does potentially become an issue, but you can ASI levels 4 & 8 and do just fine with 2 16s.

Is it high level focus/speciality optimization? Nope. But it's a great all-rounder ability scores.

[Citan]

It's actually very good scores. First of all, it's 30 pt PB, so def more than 'balanced'. Offense is perfectly acceptable from level 1, where a 15 in your primary is sufficient, ie same +2 bonus as a 14. AC is solid based on class as usual, as well as opening up Medium Armor + somewhat Stealthy option for traditionally HA wearing classes (Fighter, Paladin, some Clerics). Good Hit Points. No very weak saves. No very weak skill checks. And you can easily get your offensive score up with ASIs. If it was me, I'd plan to ASI at levels 4 & 12. (I generally assume games won't go further than that.) For multiclass, MAD does potentially become an issue, but you can ASI levels 4 & 8 and do just fine with 2 16s.

Is it high level focus/speciality optimization? Nope. But it's a great all-rounder ability scores.
Do you realize that I used a figure of speech that made sligthly fun of the "these are bad scores" idea?

Beyond that, I disagree on the fact that "14 is enough because it's same as 15". I know nearly nobody starting with less than 16 in their primary stat, for good reason.

Only classes for which it's not that important are those that get buffs to attack one way or another (Barbarian, Cleric, Battlemaster etc).

For the rest...
If you had taken the time to actually read my full post, you would have seen I provide several examples of builds that work very well with these starting stats. :):smalltongue:

[Tanarii]

Do you realize that I used a figure of speech that made sligthly fun of the "these are bad scores" idea?Um. Y..yes? :smallredface:
No. /hangshead


Beyond that, I disagree on the fact that "14 is enough because it's same as 15". I know nearly nobody starting with less than 16 in their primary stat, for good reason.Wow? Really? I used to see 15s all the time in AL, and I certainly do in my (large player-base) campaign. It's very common for players to want to play (for example) a Tiefling Cleric, or a Hill Dwarf Str-based Fighter, etc etc

[DivisibleByZero]

14s before or after racial mods?
And are we talking about level 20 builds, or builds that are playable while leveling?
Those will change my answer.

[NecroDancer]

Um. Y..yes? :smallredface:
No. /hangshead

Wow? Really? I used to see 15s all the time in AL, and I certainly do in my (large player-base) campaign. It's very common for players to want to play (for example) a Tiefling Cleric, or a Hill Dwarf Str-based Fighter, etc etc

Half-orc wizards are best.

[McNinja]

Battlemaster Fighter 5
Hexblade warlock 3
Lore Bard 3
Life cleric 3
Hunter Ranger 3
Monk 2
Rogue 1

A lot of utility and the possibility of pretty good damage. Take aasimar from Volos Guide to increase damage.

[CaptainSarathai]

Are we playing from L1?
I'll assume we are. Also, I'll assume we're going AL legal, just because.

VHuman: Feat either Mobile for +1 Dex and then add your Racial +1 for a 16, or take Resilient Con and Racial +1 for better saves and health.

Lvl1 - Warlock
Fiend. You want that TempHP on kills.
This also keeps your stupid a** out of combat, until you can get a little better at life.

Lvl2 - Warlock
Yay! You get at-will Mage Armor here. More or less covers your Defense for now. Don't bother with Agonizing Blast, you're not looking to invest in Charisma. I advise Devil's Sight, here.

Lvl3 - Rogue
I guess, you have to MC at some point, right? That's the point of the thread?
"Going Rogue" means utilizing your Dex to it's fullest, which is your attack and defense stat for this build.
Bonus actions for Disengage and Hide are nice too, good mobility for your build, and Sneak Attack works well with Darkness.

Lvl4 - Rogue
Yay, Expertise. That's useful. Helps bump up some of your skills beyond what those 14s are gonna provide.

Lvl5 - Rogue
Now we dip out of the PHB and go Swashbuckler. Dual-Wielding keeps your damage up for this build, makes good use of Hex. Swashbuckler is good for dual wielding.
Alternative is going with Arcane Trickster for more spell slots. Depends how many levels of Rogue you plan to go.

Lvl6 - Rogue
Mainly for the ASI. You're already 2 levels behind on those.

Lvl7-8 - Warlock
3rd level slots, back on track with ASIs, and you can get a Pact. Blade to get Extra Attack later on, Chain for easy SA if you didn't go Swashbuckler, or Tome if you just want spell goodies.

Do as you wish from there.

[Arkhios]

Assuming 14 in all stats is before racials:

Standard Human (str 15, dex 15, con 15, int 15, wis 15, cha 15).

Starting as a Paladin for 6 levels, and ASI +1 str & wis (str 16, wis 16). Dueling Style.

The rest as Monk 14, starting with AC 15 (not too shabby, though could be better)
First ASI +1 dex & cha (dex 16, cha 16; AC 16).
Second ASI +1 con & int (con 16, int 16)
Third ASI Dual Wielder (+1 AC if you wield two one handed weapons, both of which should be monk weapons)

You'll end up with 16 in all stats, proficiency with all saves, charisma to all saves, and a total +12 in each save.

To hit is pretty decent +9, and damage with any monk weapon 1d8+5 and unarmed 1d8+3.
A potential for 4 attacks per turn via flurry of blows.

A total of average 170 hit points and quite decent AC 17, +1 if DM allows Mariner fighting style instead of dueling. +2 with Shield of Faith.

AC 20+ if DM allows Oath of Redemption.

[DeathEatsCurry]

Um. Y..yes? :smallredface:
No. /hangshead

Wow? Really? I used to see 15s all the time in AL, and I certainly do in my (large player-base) campaign. It's very common for players to want to play (for example) a Tiefling Cleric, or a Hill Dwarf Str-based Fighter, etc etc

Well yeah, because most AL games are very low power, and most players are pretty new or are very heavy in the roleplay>rollplay camp. That's all nice and fine. Still doesn't make it good from an objective, math points of view. If you wanna make a Tiefling Cleric, go for it. But you are gonna be objectively weaker than if you had used a proper Cleric race. Honestly, that's kind of the problem with the way racial attributes work, they actively discourage odd couplings from a mathematical perspective, creating a rift between players who care about that, and those who don't. Neither side is right or wrong, but the rift is still there, and there's often a lot of unfair vitriol for the other side (particularly from the unoptimized camp, I've noticed).

[Tanarii]

a proper Cleric race.I reject the premise. :smallbiggrin:


Honestly, that's kind of the problem with the way racial attributes work, they actively discourage odd couplings from a mathematical perspective, creating a rift between players who care about that, and those who don't. Neither side is right or wrong, but the rift is still there, and there's often a lot of unfair vitriol for the other side (particularly from the unoptimized camp, I've noticed).For sure. There is a fairly large (and on the internet VERY vocal) minority of players known as 'optimizers' that care a lot about about such things. And yeah, there is a somewhat smaller (and on the internet VERY vocal) minority of players who refer to those kind of players as 'min-maxers' that care a lot about not caring about such things. But my experience is both of those camps are exactly that. A minority, albeit loud ones that create a rift.

My general experience is the VAST majority of players don't consider the difference between a +2 and +3 to start in the primary attribute for their class worth caring about. Compared to playing the race and class combination that they want to play. But don't care if someone else does care about such things and chose class & race to start with a 16.