Highest base weapon damage relative to character size?

[danielxcutter]

The best I can think of, without using spells or powers, is a Half-Giant or Goliath with Monkey Grip and Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fullblade. Fullblades are 2d8, so a Huge one would be 3d8? Dunno if I got this right, though.

Claws of the Beast, and Eldritch Claws also grant massive base damage, but those are natural weapons.

An Enlightened Fist using Superior Unarmed Strike, a Monk's Belt, and Greater Mighty Wallop probably outstrips all of these options.

Any bigger ones? Let's see just how crazy it can get.

[Rerednaw]

Is there a specific goal in mind? While this is doable, spells/powers/items are really where it gets extreme.

Claws of the Beast is a power and Eldritch Claws requires Eldritch Blast.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Aren't jovars 3d6? If so using a large jovars would have a full blade beat.

[danielxcutter]

Is there a specific goal in mind? While this is doable, spells/powers/items are really where it gets extreme.

Claws of the Beast is a power and Eldritch Claws requires Eldritch Blast.

Both, preferably.


Aren't jovars 3d6? If so using a large jovars would have a full blade beat.

Jovars are 2d6 with an 18-20 crit range.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) at level 12 gets Use oversized weapon (Ex) "As the titan special ability."

"A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty."

A two-handed warhammer for a gargantuan creature would be one size larger yet, so that's allowing you to use a colossal size warhammer (6d6) "without penalty" regardless of how small your character is. Get a Glove of Storing and go full Animaniacs.

[CIDE]

Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) at level 12 gets Use oversized weapon (Ex) "As the titan special ability."

"A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty."

A two-handed warhammer for a gargantuan creature would be one size larger yet, so that's allowing you to use a colossal size warhammer (6d6) "without penalty" regardless of how small your character is. Get a Glove of Storing and go full Animaniacs.

A favorite trick of mine. I used this at one point with some Half-Minotaur cheese and a sizing weapon and the character basically became Beta Ray Bill with horns. It's fun but not overly cheesy depending on the game you're playing in.

[Crake]

For a huge fullblade, it should go up twice, so 4d8 if you follow the standard multiple dice progression using d8s (usually it goes, 2 dice, 3 dice, 4 dice, 6 dice, 8 dice, 12 dice, 16 dice etc)

Edit: That is, unless you mean a fullblade that is itself huge sized object, ie, a fullblade sized for a large character, in which case you shouldn't need monkey grip.

[Inevitability]

Major Titan Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#titan) at level 12 gets Use oversized weapon (Ex) "As the titan special ability."

"A titan wields a great, two-handed warhammer (big enough for Gargantuan creatures) without penalty."

A two-handed warhammer for a gargantuan creature would be one size larger yet, so that's allowing you to use a colossal size warhammer (6d6) "without penalty" regardless of how small your character is. Get a Glove of Storing and go full Animaniacs.

Hairy Spider, anyone?

[Uncle Pine]

You can also cast Enlarge Weapon (CS iirc) as a Fine character and then activate a sizing weapon. Now you can wield a Colossal weapon without penalties.

[Inevitability]

You can also cast Enlarge Weapon (CS iirc) as a Fine character and then activate a sizing weapon. Now you can wield a Colossal weapon without penalties.

How about this line?


This spell has no effect on a weapon that is already increased in size by some other effect (such as being held by a creature affected by enlarge person).

[Uncle Pine]

How about this line?

That's why you activate sizing after casting Enlarge Weapon.

[Thurbane]

Just as an aside, an alternative to the fullblade is the sugliin from Frostburn: same base damage. It needs two feats to use effectively, though, and has a worse critical range. On the plus side, it has reach, and inflicts slashing and piercing damage. It could do better in some niche builds than a fullblade.

[Augment Tab]

I'm away from my books right now, but if I'm not mistaken, there is a special material in one of the Faerun books (Magic of Faerun, perhaps?) that requires an Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use, but any weapon created from it deals damage as one size category larger. They're called heavy weapons, and the material is alchemical gold or alchemical platinum. The difference had to do with an energy resistance when used to make armor, so for the weapon, it doesn't matter.

[Darrin]

I'm away from my books right now, but if I'm not mistaken, there is a special material in one of the Faerun books (Magic of Faerun, perhaps?) that requires an Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use, but any weapon created from it deals damage as one size category larger. They're called heavy weapons, and the material is alchemical gold or alchemical platinum. The difference had to do with an energy resistance when used to make armor, so for the weapon, it doesn't matter.

Magic of Faerun p. 179. However, there's a quirk to it... the damage doesn't go up by weapon size, it goes up by a table based on each die. Some die types are better than others... for example, 1d8 -> 2d6. So a 2d8 weapon goes up to 4d6. Sometimes this has implications for the specific order in which you increase the weapon's damage, as there are two "tracks" for increasing damage dice: the d6 track and the d8 track. Ideally, if you can choose which order to increase the dice, then you want to increase the weapon's size to Xd8, and then replace all the d8's with 2d6. However, in this case the order doesn't matter:

For a huge heavy fullblade, it would go 2d8 -> 3d8 (large) -> 4d8 (huge) -> 8d6 (heavy).

Or it could go 2d8 -> 4d6 (heavy) -> 6d6 (large) -> 8d6 (huge).

Either way, 8d6 base damage.

[The Viscount]

Would strongarm bracers count as magic for the purpose of this challenge? They're an item, and they allow you to use a weapon one size category larger. They don't stack with powerful build, but if you substitute Diopsid for Half-Giant/Goliath then you're good to go.

[Buufreak]

Get a Glove of Storing and go full Animaniacs.

I laughed way too hard at this. Now I want to play Wacho in a game.

[danielxcutter]

Would strongarm bracers count as magic for the purpose of this challenge? They're an item, and they allow you to use a weapon one size category larger. They don't stack with powerful build, but if you substitute Diopsid for Half-Giant/Goliath then you're good to go.

Explain.


I laughed way too hard at this. Now I want to play Wacho in a game.

Okay, what is Animaniacs?

[Remuko]

Explain.



Okay, what is Animaniacs?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animaniacs This is/was Animaniacs

[Inevitability]

Okay, what is Animaniacs?

http://68.media.tumblr.com/8ed4bd44d3de5598846909989db21ba4/tumblr_inline_mlsfecZePE1qz4rgp.png

[Rerednaw]

As Danielxcutter pointed out, Strongarm Bracers (MIC) 6000 gp is a easy mid-level way to wield weapons one-size up if you don't have Powerful-Build.
Would stack with Monkey Grip (CWar) so that's 2 size-ups.

Of course the easy-peasy way still lies with Greater Mighty Wallop (RotDragon). 3rd level wizard spell, +1 size category (damage) / 4 levels, max +5.

So that same Medium Fighter with Monkey Grip and Strongarm Bracers using say a Huge Greathorn Greathammer (MM IV) would be base 4d6 for huge and then if that wizard is 8th level bump it up 2 sizes to Colossal which is max for Core for a measely:

8d6 19-20x4. Granted your REACH is still that of a Medium character. But that's fixable with Enlarge or other options.

I suppose using the Magic Item Crafting Rules:
4th level spell at-will 8th level caster, command-word, fighter only, skill req: Intimidate (or something fightery) 1/day: 4x1800x8x.75x.9x1/5 = 7776 gp for having that hammer maxed out for 8 hours a day.

Granted you are still in melee target dummy mode. Unless you go Bloodstorm Blade (ToBattle) and pretend you're Thor-JR.

Edit: I forgot about the Platinum special material from Magic of Faerûn. Metal weapons made from it are considered +1 size for damage. Though for weapons with base die of 1d8+ it's a +7000 gp cost, the Greater Wallop is cheaper though now you only need a 5th level caster.// Edit2: Platinum <> size increase, so a medium d12 weapon goes to 2d8...but now you've got another level of size increases to stack via GMWallop or other method.

[emeraldstreak]

Edit: I forgot about the Platinum special material from Magic of Faerûn. Metal weapons made from it are considered +1 size for damage. Though for weapons with base die of 1d8+ it's a +7000 gp cost, the Greater Wallop is cheaper though now you only need a 5th level caster.

Heavy metal weapons aren't considered +1 for size but actually have their own table progression while keeping size unchanged.


As for this thread as a whole, people confuse base damage die at medium size with ways to improve weapon size. These are two different things.

Highest base damage die is of course the unarmed strike's 2d10 and sugiin (and arguably the fullblade depending on 3.5 conversion), possibly boosted with heavy metals and such.

[Rerednaw]

Heavy metal weapons aren't considered +1 for size but actually have their own table progression while keeping size unchanged.


As for this thread as a whole, people confuse base damage die at medium size with ways to improve weapon size. These are two different things.

Highest base damage die is of course the unarmed strike's 2d10 and sugiin (and arguably the fullblade depending on 3.5 conversion), possibly boosted with heavy metals and such.

Yes that's why I stated it's an effective damage increase but not size. Granted it's not exact. 1d12 for a M hammer goes to 2d8 and still M size.
It's not quite 3d6 but now you've extra room for growth...so your cap may be twice the cap for Longsword depending on how the weapon size table gets interpreted.

2d10? Oh at level 20. I didn't think the OP was considering that...lots more tricks available at that level.

[emeraldstreak]

2d10? Oh at level 20. I didn't think the OP was considering that...lots more tricks available at that level.

Obviously no later than 15 and possibly as early as 9.

[danielxcutter]

Note that Greater Mighty Wallop only works up to an effective of Colossal size, so it doesn't stack that well with oversized weapons. Works fine with platinum weapons, though.

[emeraldstreak]

Note that Greater Mighty Wallop only works up to an effective of Colossal size, so it doesn't stack that well with oversized weapons. Works fine with platinum weapons, though.

If you are interested in size increases or "as if" increases that math like size increases but aren't, here are some sources for ideas:

- the progression in this one (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21728122&postcount=78) is originally from minmaxboards' top ubercharger

- empty hand (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Ultimate_Monk_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)#Emp ty-hand_Strike_Damage)

Mind you, both play fast and loose with the RAW.

[Gruftzwerg]

Claws of the Beast, and Eldritch Claws also grant massive base damage, but those are natural weapons.

An Enlightened Fist using Superior Unarmed Strike, a Monk's Belt, and Greater Mighty Wallop probably outstrips all of these options.


to clear it up and fill the holes:

Beast Strike (feat): add claw dmg to unarmed strike
Eldritch Claws: unarmed strike + eldritch blast

= Beast Strike: 2 x unarmed dmg + eldritch blast

____________________

Monk's Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike won't work. Only the higher one is in effect (Monk's Belt with counting 5 lvl higher). to get 20lvl worth of monk unarmed strike dmg in an Enlightened Fist Build you need to either get more monk lvl (or prestige classes that progress monk).
Fist of the Forest is the best prc for that. 1lvl dip brings your monk unarmed strike to the next lvl (as per monk unarmed strike table).
Combine Monk's Belt with 1lvl of FoF and you can fuke up to 9 lvl worth of dmg.
Fist of the Forest lvl3 would give another step increase, but that isn't needed when you got the belt.

Necklace of Natural Attacks + Sizing weapon enchantment > all other size increasing option:

- Sizing is cheap and brings you up to colossal size (-2 to hit per size increase).
- unarmed strikes always count as light weapon, so you can wield em despite their colossal size.

Colossal Size Beast Strike (incl Eldritch Claws & 20lvl of monk unarmed strike dmg):
= 24d8 + 6d6

Have a look at my updated (2 weeks ago) Almighty Claw of Malar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?518880-Almighty-Claw-of-Malar-(v2-0)-a-monk-warlock-gish) for a complete build about this idea.

The best part is: Drunken Master lvl2 ability Stagger lets your freely change direction while charging. Now you can charge in any situation (even if you need to run back and forth, or make a flying looping). This enables charge/pounce multipliers every round on a consistent and reliable lvl. Add (Diving Attack with fly, Valorous weapon enchantment, Sandals of the Tiger Leap) to have x4 multiplier on you dmg every round

= 96d8 + 24d6 + 4x(Str + PA + other multiply-able dmg)

[Telonius]

Are we considering siege weapons? Heavy Catapult starts out at 6d6. Depending on how you rule it, a Tiny creature might be able to actually fire the thing (or use Mage Hand if moving the trigger is too heavy)

Ah, and I remembered another one from a recent Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21507049&postcount=179); the Heavy Blaster from Return to Temple of the Frog. 8d6 damage per shot.

[danielxcutter]

Are we considering siege weapons? Heavy Catapult starts out at 6d6. Depending on how you rule it, a Tiny creature might be able to actually fire the thing (or use Mage Hand if moving the trigger is too heavy)

Ah, and I remembered another one from a recent Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21507049&postcount=179); the Heavy Blaster from Return to Temple of the Frog. 8d6 damage per shot.

...kay, that's interesting, and totally slipped my mind. Still, most DM's won't allow you to use those, I believe.

[The Viscount]

Explain.
Diopsid is a medium race from Dragon Compendium that has extra arms, and has a racial ability to use these arms to wield weapons one size category larger than normal. The strongarm bracers are an easy way of allowing the wearer to use weapons one size category larger than normal, but specify no Powerful Build. Fortunately, Diopsid does not have powerful build, so they can use them, along with all the tricks mentioned in your OP.


Are we considering siege weapons? Heavy Catapult starts out at 6d6. Depending on how you rule it, a Tiny creature might be able to actually fire the thing (or use Mage Hand if moving the trigger is too heavy)

Ah, and I remembered another one from a recent Villainous Competition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21507049&postcount=179); the Heavy Blaster from Return to Temple of the Frog. 8d6 damage per shot.

If we're using siege weapons then I get to mention operating said weapons with Profession (siege engineer), which the vestige Halphax gives a +16 bonus on.

[Gruftzwerg]

Diopsid is a medium race from Dragon Compendium that has extra arms, and has a racial ability to use these arms to wield weapons one size category larger than normal. The strongarm bracers are an easy way of allowing the wearer to use weapons one size category larger than normal, but specify no Powerful Build. Fortunately, Diopsid does not have powerful build, so they can use them, along with all the tricks mentioned in your OP.


Imho still doesn't stack.

"normal weapon size" = medium

"normal weapon size"+1 = large

("normal weapon size"+1) + ("normal weapon size"+1) = still large

It's the same reason monk's belt & monk's tattoo & superior unarmed strike doesn't stack. all refer to the default value and not the buffed value.

edit/ just on a sidenote referring to ruletext:
the rules often end with something like "but you may not use/stack this with that..". Most of the time these sentences are just for clarification of otherwise already set rules that might not always be obvious at first glance. What I try to tell with that is, that these thing would behave the same without them, cause the rules they come from are somewhere else or simple logic (like in this chase where both refer to the default "normal" value).

[Ruethgar]

Since we are going for damage, there is a mundane weapon quality that only costs like 100g that increases the damage by 1 for a weapon. Can't recall the dragon magazine it was in though. I know its only one but still, any increase on that low end is a great thing.