Fighter/Mystic advice(?)

[FabulousChester]

So, I've been trying to find ways to play a strength-based mystic and channel that classic Psychic Warrior feel, namely with the Immortal discipline.

I'm trying to maximize my levels in Mystic, at least until I get to the 64 points stretch of level, and my GM does allow for some minor "retraining" (such as with fighting styles).
I'm planning on selecting Fighter for my first level for the proficiencies, then I'll be taking mystic. This takes care of me having to rely on Immortal Durability for AC. Now, my other issue with Immortal mystic is the lack of extra attacks. This is (sorta) remedied with the Faithful Archer discipline power, and I can use Surge of Action discipline power to make an extra attack as a bonus action. Now, Faithful Archer can be used on spears, correct?

With this combo, I "throw" the spear at the start of my turn (Until your concentration ends, you can make an extra attack with the weapon at the start of each of your turns (no action required). If it is a thrown weapon, it returns to your grasp each time you make any attack with it.), then make a melee attack with it or throw it again?

[joaber]

Why don't go until fighter 5 (or 6 if you need extra ASI/feat) to get a real extra attack and action surge, than start mystic?

This is a strenght build, right? Why you want Immortal Durability if you can use heavy armor? You could dump Dex, if you don't you'll need str, dex, con and int, so would work only with really high stats rolled.

surge of action is terrible, is way too expensive for to low. Better go as Wu Jen and grab haste at level 6. Don't grab Nomadic Arrow if you're not a ranged guy, you have to many betters disciplines to go.

[Maxilian]

Now, Faithful Archer can be used on spears, correct?


No it doesn't work, the Spear is not a range weapon (even if you can make ranged attacks with it)

Note1: That doesn't stop you from having a Bow that will basically be used only to attack with this and the Speed Dart (if you care on using it)

Note2: Bestial Form have Bestial Claws, that doesn't cost any type of action, it only cost points, so instead of using the Faithful Archer thing, you can use this (can't throw things :S )

[Typhon]

Spear is a ranged weapon. PHB pg. 149, but the range is very meh.

The discipline does just say ranged for its entirety and there is no wording about it being limited in size or description. You should be in the clear.

[Maxilian]

Spear is a ranged weapon. PHB pg. 149, but the range is very meh.

The discipline does just say ranged for its entirety and there is no wording about it being limited in size or description. You should be in the clear.


Hmmm? what do you mean the spear is a ranged weapon? is not, its a thrown weapon (-Its even under the "Simple Melee weapons" group) (in the end a melee weapon that can be thrown, the same way a Hand-Axe can be thrown -You can make ranged weapon attack with it, but it is still a melee weapon)

[FabulousChester]

Why don't go until fighter 5 (or 6 if you need extra ASI/feat) to get a real extra attack and action surge, than start mystic?

I've more or less came to the same conclusion.

I wanted to go Order of the Immortal so I could get the temporary hit points. I know they're not much, but it's reminiscent of the Vigor power. (I've also noticed that Mystic meshes well with grappling.)

[joaber]

Hmmm? what do you mean the spear is a ranged weapon? is not, its a thrown weapon (-Its even under the "Simple Melee weapons" group) (in the end a melee weapon that can be thrown, the same way a Hand-Axe can be thrown -You can make ranged weapon attack with it, but it is still a melee weapon)

Is funny cus you're correct about thrown weapon are melee weapons, but the end of Faithful Archer say "If it is a thrown weapon, it returns to your grasp each time you make any attack with it.". Definetly a mistake. By the way, Bestial Claws for no action is probably another mistake.


I've more or less came to the same conclusion.

I wanted to go Order of the Immortal so I could get the temporary hit points. I know they're not much, but it's reminiscent of the Vigor power. (I've also noticed that Mystic meshes well with grappling.)

You probably will not max your intelligence, check if those THP really worth it. Looks like you could get more with other orders (remember that you can retrain disciplines for immortal ones).

[Typhon]

Hmmm? what do you mean the spear is a ranged weapon? is not, its a thrown weapon (-Its even under the "Simple Melee weapons" group) (in the end a melee weapon that can be thrown, the same way a Hand-Axe can be thrown -You can make ranged weapon attack with it, but it is still a melee weapon)

It has a range for the distance thrown, that makes it ranged. Ranged doesn't just mean bow, sling, blowgun and crossbow. He could use a javelin, same damage and much better range.

If the OP doesn't throw it though, then that is a different issue.

[Maxilian]

It has a range for the distance thrown, that makes it ranged. Ranged doesn't just mean bow, sling, blowgun and crossbow. He could use a javelin, same damage and much better range.

If the OP doesn't throw it though, then that is a different issue.

Have in mind there is a big difference between, Range weapons, range attacks, melee weapons, melee attacks.

With a Melee weapon, you can make a Ranged Attack (be it as a thrown weapon or as an improvised weapon)

Note: In this case is irrelevant, because of what the ability mentions at the end (that a thrown weapon comes back), so even if its not RAW that a thrown weapon can be used, its RAI.

Look at this example on how a Thrown weapon interact with Sharpshooter as an example:

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/87563/are-weapons-with-the-thrown-property-considered-a-ranged-weapon-for-the-purp

And here you have something posted by Wizard (in this one it only talks about melee weapons attacks):
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-september-2015

(Check the first question in the combat part)

[Typhon]

Have in mind there is a big difference between, Range weapons, range attacks, melee weapons, melee attacks.

With a Melee weapon, you can make a Ranged Attack (be it as a thrown weapon or as an improvised weapon)

Note: In this case is irrelevant, because of what the ability mentions at the end (that a thrown weapon comes back), so even if its not RAW that a thrown weapon can be used, its RAI.

Look at this example on how a Thrown weapon interact with Sharpshooter as an example:

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/87563/are-weapons-with-the-thrown-property-considered-a-ranged-weapon-for-the-purp

And here you have something posted by Wizard (in this one it only talks about melee weapons attacks):
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/rules-answers-september-2015

(Check the first question in the combat part)

So basically, it comes down to DM choice. The first link is split 50/50 on yes and no, and states that even Mike and Jeremy don't agree. I agree with those that are saying if it has the thrown property and a range associated it does count as ranged. But only if thrown and then it can be used as such for feats, spells, etc.

So the OP should talk to his DM about this matter and find resolution there.

[Maxilian]

So basically, it comes down to DM choice. The first link is split 50/50 on yes and no, and states that even Mike and Jeremy don't agree. I agree with those that are saying if it has the thrown property and a range associated it does count as ranged. But only if thrown and then it can be used as such for feats, spells, etc.

So the OP should talk to his DM about this matter and find resolution there.

No, Jeremy is the authority on the rules, and Mike never went against him, he just said, that it wouldn't break anything (if allowed).

Again this was added in the compedium later on, so no, its not an "ask your DM" thing

http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SA-Compendium.pdf

[joaber]

No, Jeremy is the authority on the rules, and Mike never went against him, he just said, that it wouldn't break anything (if allowed).

Again this was added in the compedium later on, so no, its not an "ask your DM" thing

http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SA-Compendium.pdf

In that specific case he should ask the DM, because is a clear contradiction in that mystic dicipline. Probably, RAI it should be "ranged attack".

[Typhon]

I am trying to understand why a weapon with the thrown property and listed ranges, doesn't count as ranged when used in such a manner. It can be used to make a ranged attack, yes. The discipline he is looking to use with said weapon is for weapons that attack at range, yes. So it would work and be allowed as the weapon works for a ranged attack.

Doing what the OP wants does not break the game, it doesn't even create a ridiculous amount of damage. It is only a spear at 20/60 feet and damage only comparable to a shortbow. Even if the OP use a javelin the damage is the same and the range is all that changes.

From the wording of the discipline, it sounds like it is made to be used in such a manner as the OP is wanting to use it. So I see no issue.

As for chasing links, I can't chase every link due to being at work and restrictions.

[Maxilian]

I am trying to understand why a weapon with the thrown property and listed ranges, doesn't count as ranged when used in such a manner. It can be used to make a ranged attack, yes. The discipline he is looking to use with said weapon is for weapons that attack at range, yes. So it would work and be allowed as the weapon works for a ranged attack.

Doing what the OP wants does not break the game, it doesn't even create a ridiculous amount of damage. It is only a spear at 20/60 feet and damage only comparable to a shortbow. Even if the OP use a javelin the damage is the same and the range is all that changes.

From the wording of the discipline, it sounds like it is made to be used in such a manner as the OP is wanting to use it. So I see no issue.

As for chasing links, I can't chase every link due to being at work and restrictions.

As pointed out above, what the OP wants to do can be done, because of how the ability is worded (it mentions in the end that it works with Thrown items, even if its not worded correctly for it to be used that way) also have in mind that if you have focus in the discipline the range limit is not much of a problem.

Note: I was not trying to tell you that the OP idea is not possible, just pointing out how "weapon attacks" and such work.