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rooneg
2017-04-06, 09:06 AM
I'm trying to nail down my choices for cantrips on a new Draconic Sorcerer character, and I was wondering what people were typically doing for offensive cantrips (other than the ever popular "dip into Warlock for Eldritch Blast+Agonizing Blast" option).

I'm going Gold dragon ancestry, so Fire Bolt is the obvious primary choice. Best range, best damage, works with Twinned Spell. The only real drawback is that lots of stuff is resistant or immune to fire damage, so I'll need a backup plan.

For the backup plan I have the following serious contenders:

1) Acid Splash. Targets multiple enemies, can't twin it but don't really have to, damage type that isn't typically resisted by the same things that resist fire, low damage, medium range.
2) Chill Touch. Good range, damage type that isn't typically resisted by the same things that resist fire, medium damage, no-healing rider is occasionally useful, can be twinned.
3) Poison Spray. Negligible range, CON save is often high, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, great damage, can be twinned.
4) Ray of Frost. Medium range, medium damage, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, slowing an enemy is occasionally useful, can be twinned.
5) Shocking Grasp. No range at all, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, helping you get out of melee range is useful, can be twinned.

And if I want to use the Elemental Evil Player's Companion as my +1 source under AL rules I get the following additional choices:

6) Create Bonfire. AOE is nice, fire damage though.
7) Frostbite. CON save is often high, low damage, awesome rider effect, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, can be twinned.
8) Thunderclap. CON save is often high, AOE, low damage, very loud, damage type is good.

My current top contender is Acid Splash, although Chill Touch is a close contender due to the ability to twin it with the slight downside of being kind of ridiculous looking. Mostly, I'm just sad that my favorite alternatives (Ray of Frost and Frostbite) are all cold damage, which sucks because half the stuff that resists fire also resists cold.

Am I missing something?

Ursus the Grim
2017-04-06, 09:14 AM
5) Shocking Grasp. No range at all, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, helping you get out of melee range is useful, can be twinned.


I've gotten so much use out of Shocking Grasp, its not even funny. I know you're wary of the resistances, but the damage isn't the main selling point. Its the ability to deal a little damage on top of giving everybody a free disengage against that target. It also prevents the target from using Counterspell, Shield, Parry, or any other Reaction.

Also, having Advantage against metal armor comes up pretty often and gives you those delicious critical hits more often.

Sans.
2017-04-06, 09:16 AM
That seems right.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 09:21 AM
I've gotten so much use out of Shocking Grasp, its not even funny. I know you're wary of the resistances, but the damage isn't the main selling point. Its the ability to deal a little damage on top of giving everybody a free disengage against that target. It also prevents the target from using Counterspell, Shield, Parry, or any other Reaction.

Also, having Advantage against metal armor comes up pretty often and gives you those delicious critical hits more often.

Yeah, I think Shocking Grasp is on the list of things to pick up, I'm just not sure it's the "thing I use instead of Fire Bolt when stuff is immune to fire" pick, more the "I've got another cantrip, what would be helpful" pick.

Biggstick
2017-04-06, 10:49 AM
Acid Splash is a 60' range spell. Chill Touch is 120' range spell. Acid is more commonly resisted or monsters are just straight immune to it compared to Necrotic. Sure you can potentially hit two targets with Acid Splash, but to me that's not worth it compared to the value that Chill Touch brings. Chill Touch should definitely be your second ranged cantrip choice.

I am also a huge fan of Shocking Grasp and think it's highly under-rated by most. Depending on how many utility cantrips you want to take, I'd suggest grabbing Shocking Grasp as well. This would have you at level one with 3 attack cantrips (Fire Bolt, Chill Touch, and Shocking Grasp) and room for 1 utility cantrip (Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, etc). At Sorcerer level four, you'd be able to grab a second utility cantrip.

famousringo
2017-04-06, 01:17 PM
Unless your DM goes easy on you or your party is super coordinated, enemies engaging you melee will be a more frequent problem than fire resistance. So make sure your second cantrip pick won't suffer disadvantage in melee.

I got good mileage out of Shocking Grasp with my sorcerer. It's not just good for escapes. It can help allies maneuver or avoid other nasty reactions like Counterspells.

Another good pick is Booming Blade. Does great damage if you have a good melee stat and a magic weapon, plus it can be Twinned for even more damage and control. Also works well with Quicken, so you can Disengage (or Shocking Grasp!) and leave an enemy with no choice but to stand around or suffer the boom.

Green Flame Blade is also worth considering for your theme, but it doesn't give the same maneuvering advantages as the other two and leaves you vulnerable to fire resistance.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 01:25 PM
Unless your DM goes easy on you or your party is super coordinated, enemies engaging you melee will be a more frequent problem than fire resistance. So make sure your second cantrip pick won't suffer disadvantage in melee.

I got good mileage out of Shocking Grasp with my sorcerer. It's not just good for escapes. It can help allies maneuver or avoid other nasty reactions like Counterspells.

Another good pick is Booming Blade. Does great damage if you have a good melee stat and a magic weapon, plus it can be Twinned for even more damage and control. Also works well with Quicken, so you can Disengage (or Shocking Grasp!) and leave an enemy with no choice but to stand around or suffer the boom.

Green Flame Blade is also worth considering for your theme, but it doesn't give the same maneuvering advantages as the other two and leaves you vulnerable to fire resistance.

This is a fair point that I was perhaps underestimating in my initial assessment. I'll have to consider moving Shocking Grasp up on my priority list. As it stands I'd need to drop either Minor Illusion or Prestidigitation for it, both of which I love.

As for Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade, I love them, they're the coolest things ever, but I don't want to spend my AL legal "1 non-PHB sourcebook" on Sword Coast Adventurers Guide just to get them for a character who isn't really interested in being in melee range at all.

BoxANT
2017-04-06, 01:33 PM
If not going for Booming Blade, then Shocking Grasp is your best bet for melee range. Simply for the ability to create distance after the hit. In addition, if you ever get a familiar (ritual caster) then being able to using Shocking Grasp via familiar can be a lot of fun (touch).

One more possibility, for hipster magicians, is Gust. Doesn't do damage, but lets you push them 5' back so you can run. Like Shocking Grasp, but has more out of combat utility.

Beechgnome
2017-04-06, 01:43 PM
Shocking grasp is amazing.

In addition to the reasons specified Distant shocking grasp + Quickened Anything gives you virtual Counterspell immunity.

If you hit, your opponent can't use reactions, including counterspell. If they deflect it with counterspell or shield, then they've used their reaction. This allows you to then quicken Your fireball or save/suck Spell with confidence.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 03:10 PM
Shocking grasp is amazing.

In addition to the reasons specified Distant shocking grasp + Quickened Anything gives you virtual Counterspell immunity.

If you hit, your opponent can't use reactions, including counterspell. If they deflect it with counterspell or shield, then they've used their reaction. This allows you to then quicken Your fireball or save/suck Spell with confidence.

Yeah, I think Distant is probably not on my radar, but I will have a familiar via Ritual Caster, so that option is on the table.

Biggstick
2017-04-06, 03:12 PM
Other posters have shown great support for Shocking Grasp, as do I. I still think having a second ranged cantrip should be valued higher then a melee cantrip.


Unless your DM goes easy on you or your party is super coordinated, enemies engaging you melee will be a more frequent problem than fire resistance. So make sure your second cantrip pick won't suffer disadvantage in melee.

You specified enemies here. If you're surrounded by enemies, using Shocking Grasp (and assuming you hit, you might not even hit) will allow you to leave melee range from that one single enemy. Shocking Grasp doesn't do anything regarding all the other enemies surrounding you. If you're caught up with that many enemies, you aren't using Shocking Grasp, you're going to use a different tactic.

Tactics I would use when surrounded as a Sorcerer include: Disengage Action (no opportunity attacks from anyone throughout your movement on that turn), Misty Step, and Invisibility/Darkness (depending on if the things you're fighting can see through said condition).

I don't want to downplay the usefulness of Shocking Grasp, but you still do have to hit with it. It's a solid ability to use against a single opponent. The Distant Shocking Grasp on a caster to deal with Counterspells is awesome! It shouldn't be valued as highly as a second ranged cantrip with a different damage type imo.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 03:20 PM
I don't want to downplay the usefulness of Shocking Grasp, but you still do have to hit with it. It's a solid ability to use against a single opponent. The Distant Shocking Grasp on a caster to deal with Counterspells is awesome! It shouldn't be valued as highly as a second ranged cantrip with a different damage type imo.

I'd go further and say that it should be a ranged cantrip with a different damage type that is not cold (if you're a fire dragon sorcerer) or fire (if you're a cold dragon sorcerer). A significant percentage of the stuff that's immune/resistant to fire is also immune/resistant to cold.

And yes, I think Shocking Grasp comes in as my 3rd damaging cantrip, after Fire Bolt and Thing With A Meaningfully Different Damage Type. The question is how you value a 3rd damaging cantrip relative to utility cantrips like Light, Minor Illusion, and Prestidigitation.

Rysto
2017-04-06, 03:26 PM
I like acid splash as the other ranged cantrip, because I like to have the option to target a save when facing high-AC enemies.

Biggstick
2017-04-06, 03:39 PM
I'd go further and say that it should be a ranged cantrip with a different damage type that is not cold (if you're a fire dragon sorcerer) or fire (if you're a cold dragon sorcerer). A significant percentage of the stuff that's immune/resistant to fire is also immune/resistant to cold.

And yes, I think Shocking Grasp comes in as my 3rd damaging cantrip, after Fire Bolt and Thing With A Meaningfully Different Damage Type. The question is how you value a 3rd damaging cantrip relative to utility cantrips like Light, Minor Illusion, and Prestidigitation.

I think really it depends on if you're going to get that 4th level of Sorcerer. A 4th level gets you a 5th cantrip. if you're making it to 4th level, it isn't really an issue imo.

As for your actual question, I view Shocking Grasp as a utility cantrip as it is. It presents a really cool melee option for a Sorcerer. I very rarely see it used in combat. I actually see it used more often outside of combat as a sort of CLEAR! thing to do. it's surprising to shock someone like this. I also see it brought up in situations where Lightning damage might be relevant for the situation at hand.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 03:44 PM
I think really it depends on if you're going to get that 4th level of Sorcerer. A 4th level gets you a 5th cantrip. if you're making it to 4th level, it isn't really an issue imo.

Depends on your race. My particular sorcerer is a Human, so she needs to be able to cast Light on top of the two ranged attack cantrips. That means there are two slots left for utility, even at 4th level, and three things I'd like to take (Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation, and Shocking Grasp).


As for your actual question, I view Shocking Grasp as a utility cantrip as it is. It presents a really cool melee option for a Sorcerer. I very rarely see it used in combat. I actually see it used more often outside of combat as a sort of CLEAR! thing to do. it's surprising to shock someone like this. I also see it brought up in situations where Lightning damage might be relevant for the situation at hand.

Fair point. Now I just have to decide if I want it more than Prestidigitation ;-)

Biggstick
2017-04-06, 03:58 PM
Fair point. Now I just have to decide if I want it more than Prestidigitation ;-)

I didn't know Sorcerers come without Prestidigitation! /sarcasm

If it's a choice between those three cantrips, I'd go with Prestidigitation for sure. It's a pretty iconic cantrip imo. I don't really feel like a caster unless I have this cantrip available.

Citan
2017-04-06, 04:20 PM
I'm trying to nail down my choices for cantrips on a new Draconic Sorcerer character, and I was wondering what people were typically doing for offensive cantrips (other than the ever popular "dip into Warlock for Eldritch Blast+Agonizing Blast" option).

I'm going Gold dragon ancestry, so Fire Bolt is the obvious primary choice. Best range, best damage, works with Twinned Spell. The only real drawback is that lots of stuff is resistant or immune to fire damage, so I'll need a backup plan.

For the backup plan I have the following serious contenders:

5) Shocking Grasp. No range at all, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, helping you get out of melee range is useful, can be twinned.

My current top contender is Acid Splash, although Chill Touch is a close contender due to the ability to twin it with the slight downside of being kind of ridiculous looking. Mostly, I'm just sad that my favorite alternatives (Ray of Frost and Frostbite) are all cold damage, which sucks because half the stuff that resists fire also resists cold.

Am I missing something?
Yeah. You missed something. Dearly.

Shocking Grasp is the only good one for you, unless you have very good DEX and ability to take instead SCAG book.

Not saying that the others are bad.
But as a Sorcerer, you usually don't want people to be close to you: it means that you are about to sustain dangerous melee attacks, and it will impose disadvantage on your Firebolt rolls.

Shocking Grasp FTW: melee (no disadvantage), blocks reaction (free disengage for you), can be twinned in case people try to sandwich you...

Quick note about others...
- Acid Splash: not bad, but not really good either, even with the splash damage.
- Chill Touch: no-healing is great when you need it, but it's fairly rare usually. Other rider is great but also heavily depends on setting.
- Poison Spray: you said it all.
- Ray of Frost: that's my usual ranged cantrip as a Sorcerer/Wizard to be honest. Because the rider is useful in many circumstances. But you already get a good ranged attack so...
- Create Bonfire would be great if you could swap cantrips at higher levels. Because of that limitation (and the overly stupid ruling saying that your Draconic bonus applies only on first instance of damage per casting) I'd say it's a trap.

>> Shocking Grasp. My definite advice. :)


You specified enemies here. If you're surrounded by enemies, using Shocking Grasp (and assuming you hit, you might not even hit) will allow you to leave melee range from that one single enemy. Shocking Grasp doesn't do anything regarding all the other enemies surrounding you. If you're caught up with that many enemies, you aren't using Shocking Grasp, you're going to use a different tactic.

Tactics I would use when surrounded as a Sorcerer include: Disengage Action (no opportunity attacks from anyone throughout your movement on that turn), Misty Step, and Invisibility/Darkness (depending on if the things you're fighting can see through said condition).

Misty Step is a good one, although it is a 2nd level spell. So keep it for true emergencies.
Otherwise, I really don't see any caster going out without either Thunderwave or Earth Tremor prepared. Latter is great as long as you have a chance to see enemies coming, former is a perfect "oh ****" button.

Especially since you can Quicken it as Sorcerer, meaning...
- Either you put everyone aside: great, now you can move freely and do what you want.
- Or you still have 1-2 people threatening you: you can still Twin your Shocking Grasp because you feel lucky.
- Or you still have the option to Disengage if it's really too difficult.

Really, never go without your Thunderwave \o/

Although Earth Tremor opens some other fun tactics, like trusting that your Shield will protect you well enough to avoid most or all hits and, instead of running away, closing in to strike someone that fell prone with Booming Blade if available (so you attack with advantage, and he will suffer rider damage if he gets up XD).

Another good spell to get is Dust Devil: in most occasions (like every environment barring buildings unless DM is nasty), the "cloud of debris" effect can be activated, so you could use your bonus action to make it move between you and enemies, effectively blinding them unless they have darkvision. Then they cannot take opportunity attacks while you move away. :)


I didn't know Sorcerers come without Prestidigitation! /sarcasm

If it's a choice between those three cantrips, I'd go with Prestidigitation for sure. It's a pretty iconic cantrip imo. I don't really feel like a caster unless I have this cantrip available.
Funny, I view it rather as the iconic spell for Wizards, would rather associate Sorcerer with Control Flames or the like. ;)

But agreed. If it's a choice between Shocking Grasp and Prestidigitation (and you love this one because you have a creative mind), well, take the latter and just make sure you always stay far from enemies... Or draw a dagger to try and look threatening, although you will probably face a big, sad fail. XD

Rysto
2017-04-06, 04:47 PM
I really like Shocking Grasp for its "get out of melee" ability, but another possibility if you're facing AoO from a number of enemies is to use Shield if you get hit by one. The +5AC lasts for a full round so all of the AoO will have to hit against it, and if anybody follows you they'll still have to get through that AC. Not bad for a single 1st level slot, especially at higher levels.

Asmotherion
2017-04-06, 06:25 PM
I'm trying to nail down my choices for cantrips on a new Draconic Sorcerer character, and I was wondering what people were typically doing for offensive cantrips (other than the ever popular "dip into Warlock for Eldritch Blast+Agonizing Blast" option).

I'm going Gold dragon ancestry, so Fire Bolt is the obvious primary choice. Best range, best damage, works with Twinned Spell. The only real drawback is that lots of stuff is resistant or immune to fire damage, so I'll need a backup plan.

For the backup plan I have the following serious contenders:

1) Acid Splash. Targets multiple enemies, can't twin it but don't really have to, damage type that isn't typically resisted by the same things that resist fire, low damage, medium range.
2) Chill Touch. Good range, damage type that isn't typically resisted by the same things that resist fire, medium damage, no-healing rider is occasionally useful, can be twinned.
3) Poison Spray. Negligible range, CON save is often high, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, great damage, can be twinned.
4) Ray of Frost. Medium range, medium damage, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, slowing an enemy is occasionally useful, can be twinned.
5) Shocking Grasp. No range at all, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, medium damage, helping you get out of melee range is useful, can be twinned.

And if I want to use the Elemental Evil Player's Companion as my +1 source under AL rules I get the following additional choices:

6) Create Bonfire. AOE is nice, fire damage though.
7) Frostbite. CON save is often high, low damage, awesome rider effect, damage type is often paired with resistance/immunity to fire, can be twinned.
8) Thunderclap. CON save is often high, AOE, low damage, very loud, damage type is good.

My current top contender is Acid Splash, although Chill Touch is a close contender due to the ability to twin it with the slight downside of being kind of ridiculous looking. Mostly, I'm just sad that my favorite alternatives (Ray of Frost and Frostbite) are all cold damage, which sucks because half the stuff that resists fire also resists cold.

Am I missing something?

I'll be honest and admit that I always play a Sorlock when I go Sorcerer. However, I do get some good cantrips as I love having varity in my attacks, and I consider myself a light optimiser (that is, wile I do optimise, I put character concept before optimisation). So, here are my usual cantrip picks:

Fire Bolt: Even if you have Eldritch Blast, you can never go wrong with this cantrip. Sure, a lot of things have fire imunity/resistance, but many others have vulnerability as well, so this is an ever-good cantrip to have. The fact it deals d10 damage wile preventing the Troll's regeneration from working alone (the troll is a very usual monster to face, and the bane of many low-level parties) is enough for me to pick it. On the plus side, you can stratigically put bushes etc. on fire, and then somehow knock an enemy on them with control spells. Or ignite a wooder floor etc when enemies are standing on it. You practically can use it as a light/limited version of Create Bonefire, that at least does not use concentration. Finally, by level 4 you can get your hands on Elemental Adept, and mitigate the negative sides of fire resistance and perhaps imunity (not sure).

Shocking Grasp: If you're one of the typical Ranged Glass Cannon Sorcerers, you do not want to be in melee. So, this is great, as 50% of melee opponent's will be wearing some sort of metalic armor, granting you free advantage to hit them. Even if they don't, dealing damage wile disengaging, instead of spending your action to disengage can never go wrong. It even hits with your Spellcasting Stat (as opposed to Scag melee-attack Cantrips), and deals D8, wich is in the fammily of high die sizes. Lightning Damage imunity/resistance is far less common than fire, and if you invest in the Distant Spell metamagic, you don't have to use it melee-only. Zapping things, especially guys in metal armor for free advantage, is lots of fun, and a lot less situational than you might initially think. Finally, with the "War Caster" feat, you get to use this cantrip as a reaction, so that you won't even give up your own action. Combines well with the sentinel feat as well, in case you play a Gish Sorcerer and you want to prevent the oponent from going away.

Those two are my standard offensive pick for a sorcerer, together with Mage Hand, Prestidigitation and Minor Illusion, wich can be loads of fun to RP with, and allow plenty of shennenigans, if your DM is willing to allow those.

Now, if you have a particularly good Dexterity Score (wich can happen, as it's your 3rd prioritised score after Cha and Con), you may want to invest a bit in Gish Action. Picking GFB is the obvious choice for a Fire Sorcerer, but Booming Blade is also very usefull, as you can substitute it with the Sentinel Feat, freeing up a feat slot for an other feat, or an ASI that will actually alow you a better Dex or Str Score, ake a better Gish Build. Now, why do I include Str? For the Polearm Master Feat. Wile the Errata disabled the War Caster+Polearm Master+Sentinel combo to use your Shocking Grasp/Eldritch Blast etc with polearm master, Scag Melee Attack Cantrips still aply to the Weapon Attack of PAM, as the way it's phrased nothing prevents you from it. Add the Spell Sniper feat, and your Scag Cantrips will even have the proper reach. So, War Caster+Polearm Master+Spell Sniper+Booming Blade for extra damage if the enemy moves closer (in case he has no reach weapon), or at least lock him out of reach. You'll probably need some Melee weapon proficiencies, but it's nothing a 1 level Fighter dip can't fix.

Other than those options, if you really want a better coverage in cases of Fire Resistance/Imunity, the easyest option (that does not include Dipping Warlock for Eldritch Blast, as it's an obvious choice and if you wanted to do it, I'm sure you would have) for a good type of damage is Chill Touch. Necrotic Damage is mostly resisted by Undead, and the extra text makes sure it's not wasted on them either. And undead rarelly resit fire, so you have that one covered too.

rooneg
2017-04-06, 07:27 PM
I'll be honest and admit that I always play a Sorlock when I go Sorcerer.

So, I'm planning on going pure Sorcerer for this build, but since you're a Sorlock fan I'll ask. How you do build your Sorlock? 2 levels of Warlock or 3? Do you take them early or do you wait for your 5th level of Sorcerer first so you can get 3rd level spells ASAP? Is it worth taking Hex or do you have better things to do with your concentration?


Finally, by level 4 you can get your hands on Elemental Adept, and mitigate the negative sides of fire resistance and perhaps imunity (not sure).

Sadly, Elemental Adept ignores resistance, but not immunity. If it took care of immunity I'd have taken it as my variant human feat and stocked up on my fire spells. As it stands I'm taking Ritual Caster instead ;-)

famousringo
2017-04-06, 11:58 PM
You specified enemies here. If you're surrounded by enemies, using Shocking Grasp (and assuming you hit, you might not even hit) will allow you to leave melee range from that one single enemy. Shocking Grasp doesn't do anything regarding all the other enemies surrounding you. If you're caught up with that many enemies, you aren't using Shocking Grasp, you're going to use a different tactic.

Tactics I would use when surrounded as a Sorcerer include: Disengage Action (no opportunity attacks from anyone throughout your movement on that turn), Misty Step, and Invisibility/Darkness (depending on if the things you're fighting can see through said condition).

I don't want to downplay the usefulness of Shocking Grasp, but you still do have to hit with it. It's a solid ability to use against a single opponent. The Distant Shocking Grasp on a caster to deal with Counterspells is awesome! It shouldn't be valued as highly as a second ranged cantrip with a different damage type imo.
Eh, I didn't so much "specify enemies" as use a plural, because I'm assuming more than one single enemy will close to melee range over the course of the sorcerer's career.

You're not wrong, but a few notes:

1. The subject is cantrips, and the only other cantrip that's going to help you escape is Gust. Other escape spells are nice, but they consume precious slots and even more precious spells known. Not saying spending those resources to escape is a bad idea, but Shocking Grasp did the trick for me through to level 9.

2. Just about any sorcerer will be able to Shocking Grasp at least two targets. Maybe three.

3. Taking a little risk to do some damage while escaping is more fun than just running away.:smallwink:

Asmotherion
2017-04-07, 08:23 AM
So, I'm planning on going pure Sorcerer for this build, but since you're a Sorlock fan I'll ask. How you do build your Sorlock? 2 levels of Warlock or 3? Do you take them early or do you wait for your 5th level of Sorcerer first so you can get 3rd level spells ASAP? Is it worth taking Hex or do you have better things to do with your concentration?



Sadly, Elemental Adept ignores resistance, but not immunity. If it took care of immunity I'd have taken it as my variant human feat and stocked up on my fire spells. As it stands I'm taking Ritual Caster instead ;-)


Depends on the concept I'm going for. If I'm going Gish, I take a 3rd level for pact of the Tome, to get my hands on Shillelagh and use my Cha on attack/damage. I also make sure to pick both Booming and Green-Flame blade.

If I want to have more high level spell options, I go Sorcerer 18, to have Wish, Gate and Meteor Swarm.

I always start with a Sorcerer level for Con save proficiency. I then get two Warlock levels, and then a continue to Sorcerer 3. From that point, I may or may not take my final Warlock level. It does give me a slower spell development indeed, but I have my At-Will damage option covered with Eldritch+Agonising+Repeling Blast+Hex+the occasional Quicken Metamagic. I also like to use the other cantrips strategically, and not only rely on EB.

About spells known options, I tend to only get 2-3 offensive options, and the rest uttility/buffs/debuffs/control etc. I usually get Magic Missile (for bulky opponents), Fireball (for hoards) and Meteor swarm as a high level pick, (just for the pure damage and level of devastation). The rest is spent on staff that focus on keeping me alive (Armor of Agathys, Mirror Image, Blink, Shield, Counterspell, Dispell Magic, Globe of Invulnerability etc) or gives me some Utility option both in and out of combat (Disguise/Alter self, Telekinesis, Wish (yeah, I know clishe, but it's still the best spell in the game), Teleport, Plane Shift/Gate etc.).

Citan
2017-04-07, 09:51 AM
Depends on the concept I'm going for. If I'm going Gish, I take a 3rd level for pact of the Tome, to get my hands on Shillelagh and use my Cha on attack/damage. I also make sure to pick both Booming and Green-Flame blade.

If I want to have more high level spell options, I go Sorcerer 18, to have Wish, Gate and Meteor Swarm.

I always start with a Sorcerer level for Con save proficiency. I then get two Warlock levels, and then a continue to Sorcerer 3. From that point, I may or may not take my final Warlock level. It does give me a slower spell development indeed, but I have my At-Will damage option covered with Eldritch+Agonising+Repeling Blast+Hex+the occasional Quicken Metamagic. I also like to use the other cantrips strategically, and not only rely on EB.

Hey ;) If you are going for a gish build, I'd strongly suggest you to drop one weapon cantrip to instead get Thorns Whip. Why?
Because, now, you are the ONE WHO CONTROLS BATTLEFIELD.
Want to push? Repelling Blast.
Want to pull? Thorns Whip.

Makes for very fun combination, especially as a Sorcerer who can cast Quickened and Careful spells and has access to...
- Levitate: sure, your target won't take falling damage, so it's of a limited use, and more of a "classy" example than an "efficient" one. But if your DM takes distance into account when spell end, putting yourself under it then Repelling Blast it away should be fun.
- Fog Cloud: one pesky enemy has dangerous attacks/spells but limited speed? Maybe you can push him towards and beyond a Fog Cloud.
- Web/Wall of Fire/Stinking Cloud: you put a nasty battlefield spell so now enemies stay to safety or try to go around? Use Thorn Whips to "invite" them into the area of your spell.
- Burning Hands/Shatter/Fireball/Hypnotic Pattern/Fear: you would really like to affect several enemies, but one/a few of them are just too spread around for your spell to be worth it? You have the answer. :)

For a gish, you could have tremendous fun with a build similar to...
Warlock 3/5 (depending on what kind of short rest slot you want)
Paladin 2 (Divine Smite, Command fun, healing spells) (although it's optional really if you want to play "as a caster")
Fighter 2 (Action Surge)
Swashbuckler 3 (Cunning Action, +initiative)
Sorcerer X
The most conservative build will allow you to reach Sorcerer 10, allowing you to take Quickened, Careful and a third (Twin seems the best here, but Heightened might be nice too)
Great AC, good HP, great mobility, constitution saves, rituals, great melee attack, great ranged attack...
Of course, this is not a build I would suggest to most people, unless they start their campaign as a level 6-7 character minimum. Because it's a chore to level up. ^^

Core concept can be only soon enough though (Sorcerer 3 / Warlock 3 / Rogue 2) thankfully, since you can convert some short rest slot into SP. Everything else is just icing on the cake, making you even better at being pesky. :)