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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class The Brute, don't freak out



artimus261
2017-04-06, 02:47 PM
The Brute

http://orig15.deviantart.net/e119/f/2014/078/3/3/female_hill_giant_by_ianllanas-d7auh85.jpg

"You. Leave. Or I SMASH," the succint words of Yngdala, a wildlands brute.

The brute is a simple minded beast capable of delivering fearsome blows to whatever gets in her path. Despite her lacking of social skills, advanced thought, and even formal combat training the sheer brutality and fortitude of the brute keeps her alive when others would fall. As she grows in strength she learns how to tap into some bizarre store of primal energy that allows her to increase her size to potentially monstrous proportions at her peak. Aside from her ability to grow her body to freakish heights she is also able to harness the fury that she receives from the blows of her enemies, able to channel their power right back at them with instinctive cunning.

Role: Within a party the brute is the first to engage an opponent and does her best to keep it's attention, shrugging off damage while delivering heavy blows in response. They are capable of distracting many opponents without much fear of death, allowing the rest of the party to coordinate around them.

Alignment: While no particular alignment is barred from the brute they tend to lean towards chaotic or neutral alignments over lawful ones, though a lawful brute is a loyal and powerful ally.

Hit Die: d12

Starting Gold: As druid

Class Skills
The brute's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb(Str), Craft[primitive weapons](Int)*, Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Knowledge[geography](Int), Knowledge[nature](Int), Listen(Wis), Spot(Wis), Survival(Wis)
*: listed at bottom of entry

Skill Ranks at 1st Level: 4 x (2 + Int modifier)
Skill Ranks per Additional Level: (2 + Int modifier)


BRUTE


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st

+0

+2

+0

+0
Powerful build, slam, unearthly vitality, illiteracy

2nd

+1

+3

+0

+0
Damage reduction 1/-, thick skinned +1


3rd

+2

+3

+1

+1
Strain ligaments, draw strength(force)


4th

+3

+4

+1

+1
Damage reduction 2/-, enrage


5th

+3

+4

+1

+1
Giant's strength 1/day, strengthen body, draw strength(healing)


6th

+4

+5

+2

+2
Damage reduction 3/-, faster healing, thick skinned +2, stoic vigor


7th

+5

+5

+2

+2
Draw strength(speed)


8th

+6/+1

+6

+2

+2
Devastating blow +1, damage reduction 4/-, giant's strength 2/day


9th

+6/+1

+6

+3

+3
Strain muscles, draw strength(knockdown)


10th

+7/+2

+7

+3

+3
Crushing blows, damage reduction 5/-, thick skinned +3, strengthen body


11th

+8/+3

+7

+3

+3
Giant's strength 3/day, draw strength(defense)


12th

+9/+4

+8

+4

+4
Damage reduction 6/-, deadened nerves


13th

+9/+4

+8

+4

+4
Grasp the blade, draw strength(critical)


14th

+10/+5

+9

+4

+4
Damage reduction 7/-, thick skinned +4, giant's strength 4/day


15th

+11/+6/+1

+9

+5

+5
Draw strength(attack), strengthen body


16th

+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+5
Damage reduction 8/-, devastating blows +2


17th

+12/+7/+2

+10

+5

+5
Draw strength(strength), giant's strength 5/day


18th

+13/+8/+3

+11

+6

+6
Improved grab, damage reduction 9/-, thick skinned +5


19th

+14/+9/+4

+11

+6

+6
Draw strength(destruction)


20th

+15/+10/+5

+12

+6

+6
Strength of the titan, giant's strength 6/day, damage reduction 10/-, strengthen body



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the brute.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A brute is proficient with the club, morningstar, shortspear, spear, longspear, light mace, heavy mace, light hammer, throwing axe, handaxe, light pick, sap, battleaxe, heavy pick, warhammer, glaive, greataxe, and greatclub.

Illiterate: Brutes are one of the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write. A brute may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages she is able to speak.
A brute who gains a level in any other class, aside from barbarian, automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a brute level does not lose the literacy he or she already had.

Bonus Languages: A brute's bonus languages include giant as they often run into one another on lonely mountain peaks or isolated forests.

Powerful Build(Ex): The physical stature of a brute lets her function in many ways as if she were one size category larger. Whenever a brute is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the brute is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to her. A brute is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect her. A brute can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.
However, her space and reach remain those of a creature of her actual size. The benefits of this trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Lastly, any armor the brute might wear hampers her ability to use her bulk to it’s fullest advantage. While she may still wield weapons that are one size category larger while wearing armor the brute loses any other benefit of her powerful build while wearing any armor

Slam: The brute’s powerful body and thick limbs allow her to perform a devastating blow with brute force. The brute gains the ability to deliver a slam attack as a primary natural weapon. This slam deals 1d6 damage for a small character and 1d8 for a medium character. However the damage of this attack is subject to the same changes provided by powerful build, thusly a small brute’s slam attack is in fact increased to 1d8 and a medium brute’s slam attack is increased to 2d6.

Unearthly Vitality(Ex): The brute’s body is so thickly muscled and toughened that she gains additional vitality from her strength alone. The brute gains a 3 bonus hit points at each level of brute beginning with her 1st level. However if a character's 1st character level is as a brute she gains 12 hit points at 1st level and then gains 3 hit points at each additional level after 1st.

Damage Reduction(Ex): At 2nd level, a brute gains Damage Reduction. Subtract 1 from the damage the brute takes each time she is dealt damage from a weapon or a natural attack. At 4th level, and every two brute levels thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th, etc.), this damage reduction rises by 1 point. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.

Thick Skinned(Ex): Beginning at 2nd level the brute has never donned armor, at most wearing minor rags for warmth, the concepts of modesty and nudity not even making sense to an individual so comfortable in the wilds. However it is because of this that the brute’s skin has grown tough and resistant to injury. At 2nd level the brute gains a +1 natural armor bonus to her AC. This bonus increases to +2 at 6th level, +3 at 10th, +4 at 14th, and +5 at 18th.

Strain Ligaments(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the brute is able to react with startlingly quick reflexes, though her body suffers from the strain the brute puts her body through. The brute can choose to take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage as an immediate action to gain a +4 bonus on a single Reflex saving throw or Initiative check she is making. This damage is added as fury for the brute and ignores her damage reduction. A brute loses the ability to strain her ligaments if she is wearing any form of armor.

Draw Strength(Ex): Beginning at 3rd level the brute is able to harness the power of her own injuries and channel it into fits of extraordinary abilities. Whenever the brute takes damage she gains that amount in a resource called fury. The brute gains fury from all attacks made before her round and the amount of fury she gains from each attack is cumulative and also accumulates from damage prevented by her Damage Reduction. The brute gains fury from nonlethal damage as well provided it is from an attack or spell.
However her fury she has gained expire at the end of each of her rounds whether she’s used them all or not and she can only hold an amount of fury at any one time equal to her Constitution modifier x her brute level. Fury can be spent on various abilities that will be listed below. Spending her fury is a free action for the brute and she can choose to divide up her points among the various uses of fury as she sees fit in any given round. The brute can spend any multiples of the listed amount of fury for stacking benefits of the abilities. For instance in a given round a brute who had received 32 damage in her last round could spend 12 fury to gain a +6 bonus on her next melee attack’s damage roll, 6 fury to gain fast healing 2 for 1 round, and 12 fury to gain a +20ft bonus to her landspeed for the round.
----Force: At 3rd level for every 5 fury spent the brute gains a +2 damage bonus on her next melee attack
----Healing: At 5th level for every 3 fury spent the brute gains fast healing 1 for 1 round
----Speed: At 7th level for every 6 fury spent the brute gains a +10ft bonus to her landspeed until the end of her round
----Knockdown: At 9th level by spending 10 fury all enemies struck by the brute until the start of her next turn must succeed on a Reflex save or be knocked prone in an adjacent square selected by the brute. The DC is 10 + ½ the brute’s level + her Strength modifier. An enemy struck multiple times must succeed on the save for each attack.
----Defense: At 11th level for every 3 fury spent the brute gains a +1 dodge bonus to her AC against the next attack made against her before the start of her next round. If she spends at least 9 fury she gains evasion against the next attack made against her that requires a saving throw. If the brute has gained evasion, and a +3 dodge bonus along with it, and has an attack roll made against her it expends her defense benefits and she loses evasion even though she had not yet made a saving throw. This also applies in the opposite sense, if a brute has gained evasion and makes a reflex save against an attack that required one she loses the dodge bonus to her AC that she had gained.
----Critical: At 13th level for every 2 fury spent the brute gains a +1 bonus on the attack roll made to confirm a threatened critical strike. This bonus last until the start of her next round but only applies to the next threatened critical attack before then.
----Attack: At 15th level by spending 15 fury the brute can make a single melee attack at her full base attack bonus as a swift action.
----Strength: At 17th level for every 3 points of fury spent the brute gains a +1 bonus on any Strength checks and Strength-based skill checks they make until the start of their next round.
----Destruction: At 19th level by spending 100 fury the brute can cause a melee attack to automatically threaten a critical hit if it successfully strikes the target

Enrage(Ex): Beginning at 4th level the brute is able to spend a round brooding over her injuries and gain even further strength by tensing every muscle in her body in preparation for her revenge. During any round after the brute has suffered damage dealt by an opponent she can, as a standard action, choose to take an amount of nonlethal damage equal to her class level, adding it to her fury pool. Additionally she retains any fury she had gained before this round, keeping it in her reservoir until the end of the following round. She can choose to do this any number of times, continuing to add and retain her fury until she decides to spend it.

Giant's Strength(Ex): Beginning at 5th level the brute can summon a primal ferocity that dwells within her and actually increase her size to inflict devastating blows. This ability functions as the enlarge person spell except that it lasts for 3 minutes/brute level and is not considered a magical effect, preventing it from being dispelled or nullified by antimagic. At 5th level the brute can use this ability once per day as a standard action and gains an additional use every 3 levels beyond 5th (2/day at 8th, 3/day at 11th, 4/day at 14th, 5/day at 17th, and 6/day at 20th). Additionally armor and weapons the brute wields do not grow in size with her. If she is wearing any form of armor the growth in size fails and the use is wasted.

Strengthen Body(Ex): At 5th level the brute begins to grow more powerful, her body being tested so rigorously that she improves drastically. At 5th level she gains a +1 bonus to her Strength or her Constitution score. She gains an additional +1 bonus at 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.

Faster Healing(Ex): Beginning at 6th level the brute’s body has had to adapt to living without care or attention or even thought to it’s well being. As such the brute heal’s two times her character level during an 8 hour rest.

Stoic Vigor(Ex): Beginning at 6th level the brute is able to periodically shrug off a portion of damage provided it does not all come at once. The brute now gains a small pool of temporary hit points that are fully restored at the start of each of her turns. The amount of temporary hit points she possesses is equal to 1/2 her class level. She gains fury as normal from damage dealt to these temporary hit points.

Devastating Blows(Ex): Beginning at 8th level the brute is capable of inflict grievous injuries with her slams. The brute gains a +1 bonus to the threat range and critical multiplier of her slam attack, increasing the threat range to 19-20 and the critical multiplier to x3. At 16th level this bonus increases to +2, raising the threat range to 18-20 and the critical multiplier to x4. Anything else that modifies her slam attacks threat range or critical multiplier stacks with this bonus but is applied to the base threat range and critical multiplier of her slam. For instance a 12th level brute who selects the Improved Critical feat for her slam only receives an additional point of threat range, the bonus applying to the original natural 20 threat range of her slam, increasing it to 18-20 at 12th level. It would still later become 17-20 at 16th level when the bonus of her devastating blows increases to +2.

Strain Muscles(Ex): The brute is able to begin straining her muscles at 9th level to gain a more powerful attack. The brute can now choose to take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage as an immediate action to gain a +2 bonus on her next melee attack and damage roll. This damage is added as fury for the brute and ignores her damage reduction.

Crushing Blows(Ex): Beginning at 10th level the brute has learned to crush her victim’s body with her heavy blows. Whenever the brute successfully deals a critical strike with a bludgeoning attack her victim takes 1d4+1 points of Constitution damage. Creatures that are immune to critical hits by virtue of their type, such as constructs and undead, are subject to the critical hit of bludgeoning weapons used by the brute as normal. However creatures that are immune by virtue of indiscernible anatomies, such as oozes, and magical immunity still ignore such critical threats. Incorporeal targets are immune to any and all effects granted by Crushing Blows.

Deadened Nerves(Ex): Beginning at 12th level the brute has suffered countless injuries and immeasurable amounts of pain and has become numb to the sensation, able to ignore it's effects and continue to function despite large amounts of injury. The brute gains the benefit of the Diehard feat, becomes immune to pain effects such as symbol of pain, and becomes immune to the staggered status. Additionally she no longer falls unconscious from nonlethal damage until it rises above her total hit points instead of her current hit points.

Grasp the Blade(Ex): Beginning at 13th level the brute can take the brunt of an attack, taking only a small injury in place of the true intended attack. The brute can choose to take 1d6 points of damage of the same type as an attack being made against her as an immediate action to gain a +4 bonus to her AC against that attack. Her damage reduction does not reduce the damage she receives for grasp the blade.

Improved Grab(Ex): Beginning at 18th level the brute has learned how to snatch up her victims after delivering her slams. The brute can now make a grapple check as a free action after successfully striking an enemy with her slam attack. The target must at least be one size category smaller than her for her to perform her improved grab and after successfully initiating the grapple follows all of the normal rules for a grapple.

Strength of the Titan(Ex): Finally at 20th level the brute is able to amass all of her power and grow to titanic heights to destroy her enemies. The brute can now expend 2 daily uses of her Giant's Strength as a full round action to gains the benefits of the Giant Size spell. The brute can choose to grow to huge, gargantuan, or colossal sizes at her option. The brute cannot gain or spend fury while under the effects of Strength of the Titan. The traits she gains are listed below. Any weapons she wields do not grow in size with her. If she is wearing any armor the change in size fails the her daily uses are wasted. The damage of slam listed below includes the brute’s powerful build trait.

_________________________Nat___AC/Atk____Space/
Size ____Str___Dex__Con___AC____Mod______Reach____Slam
Huge ___+16___-2___+8____+3 ____-2______15ft/15ft____4d6
Garg ___+24___-2___+12___+7 ____-4______20ft/20ft____6d6
Colo ___+32___-2___+16___+12____-8______30ft/30ft____8d6

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While they can't grow the size of their weapon a simple Sizing Weapon enchantment fixes that easily.
If you can't read the little chart at the bottom just refer to the Giant Size spell, complete arcane Wu Jen spell

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Craft(primitive weapons)

Like other craft skills this allows the brute to produce rudimentary weapons for herself. This follows all of the normal crafting rules. However the brute is completely lacking of metal smithing know-how and as such must use stone or bone in place of metal for weapons like the light pick or greataxe. Normally the use of such materials imparts a penalty to the attack and damage roll of the weapon but a brute is able to harness them to their fullest extent, ignoring such penalties. Any other character using these weapons still suffers a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls made with them. Additionally the brute needs no tools to avoid taking the -2 penalty on her craft checks for primitive weapons.

The weapons a brute can make with this skill are bolas, club, light mace, light pick, light hammer, handaxe,throwing axe, quarterstaff, shortspear, spear, longspear, dart, javelin, dwarven waraxe, net, battleaxe, heavy mace, heavy pick, warhammer, glaive, greataxe, greatclub, sling, boomerang**, kylie**, atlatl**, goliath greathammer***, throwing hammer***, goad*, iuak*, ritiik*, sugliin*, and tigerskull club*.

*: Frostburn
**: Sandstorm
***: Races of Stone

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Brute Specific Feat
Fury Specialization
Prerequisite: brute 3rd level
Benefit: Whenever the brute selects Fury Specialization she chooses a single ability that she can spend her fury on. The fury cost of the selected ability drops by 1 point. Additionally the brute is treated as being 1 level higher for the purpose of determining how much fury she can hold at any given time for each Fury Specialization feat she possesses.
Special: The brute can select this feat multiple times, however she must choose a different use for her fury each time she gains this feat.

Endless Strength
Prerequisite: brute 6th level, Giant's Strength
Benefit: The brute can now use giant's strength one additional time each day.

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-06, 08:57 PM
Level-by-level review:
Chassis:
Pretty much the same as a Barbarian's, except for Average BAB. It's a melee
Poor skills- this class probably won't hit T3. Horrifying skill list.
Missing Swim.
Proficiencies:... Are these just the simple/martial bludgeoning weapons? Surprised you don't allow greatswords, but do allow light/heavy picks... This class hates zombies.

L1:
Illiteracy... yay. Curiously, multiclassing to barbarian makes you literate.
Powerful Build... neat. Everything but reach.
Slam: Eh. Outside of natural weapon effects, this is still less useful than most weapons you can get.
L1 verdict: Could see a dip in a hulking hurler build, but level 1 is surprisingly sparse. You're pretty close to a glass cannon due to lack of AC, and all you really have going for you is powerful build for +damage. To a significant degree, armor proficiency is the most powerful feat you can get at this level, but you'll be sad next level, because:

L2:
... it overrides your natural armor bonus. Which, notably, isn't very high either- this class is clearly meant to tank with its face.
Still, damage reduction and AC in one level is maybe too much defense in one level- I might move natural armor to level 1, to start the no-armor party at level 1- somewhat similar to what the monk does.


L3:
Strain Ligaments: Interesting Reflex defense. Self-damage is neat.
Unearthy Vitality:... This is a third defensive ability in the last 3 levels. It's not exactly bad, but you're trying to do a whole lot to make up for poor armor.

L4:
Draw Strength:
This looks like the central tool of the class. With that in mind, thoughts on it:
-The points from a round expire at the end of the next round? I'm going to have some trouble tracking how this works round-to-round, since you gain fury from the previous round's damage. Example:
On initiative count 21, the Brute takes 12 damage, adding 12 to her pool.
On initiative count 12, the Brute acts. She spends 6 points of fury on a thing, leaving 6
Next round:
On initiative count 17, the Brute takes another 6 points of damage. Now, there are 12 points in the Brute's pool.
On initiative count 12, the Brute acts. She spends 4 points of fury. Now, there are 8 points- but at the end of her turn, how many go away?
-How does this interact with Damage Reduction?
-The take-damage-get-effects thing has antisynergy with the AC bonus, and possibly with damage reduction- need that interaction clarified.
Continuing:
Effects:
Force: No reason to restrict it to bludgeoning weapons. Also, both numbers can be divided by 2. Also, add "within the next round", for obvious reasons. Also also, this is pretty inefficient except in duels.
Healing: You can just directly heal the Brute. Usefully, while "face-tanking", this means the Brute is effectively taking 2/3 damage. Very nice!
Speed: This isn't actually that great a benefit. 90% of the time, if you want speed, it's to get into melee range. But, you need to take damage to use this ability- by which time you've normally charged into melee.
Knockdown: In an adjacent square... adjacent to who? If you hit someone repeatedly, do you just slide them around by 5 ft each time? It's a nice CC option, I suppose.
Defense: No no no no. Not only is this wildly expensive, it's something that the Brute doesn't really want- they like taking and dealing damage.
Critical: Improbable to be useful- you need to spend it in advance, since you can't take actions in the middle of other actions, it isn't a particularly efficient bonus, and the weapons you can't use aren't great at crits in the first place.
Attack: Eh... I'd prefer an accuracy bonus? Average BAB sucks, dude.
Strength: Decent-ish. If you didn't need to stab yourself to do it, anyway.
Destruction: Suddenly, Critical might be useful. Might. If you didn't need to take 50 damage in one(two?) round to use this in the first place. Best case, you use a x3 weapon, and some crit build, but unless you planned for this, it isn't great- it's effectively two extra attacks in most circumstances, which Attack does more efficiently.

5:
Unleashing Fury: No problems here, except that the duration adjustment is a little odd? Doubling it seems arbitrary.
Strengthen Body: OK... not a super-huge bonus, but nice to have. If you're giving out bonuses, I'd prefer to see a larger enhancement bonus, to reduce item dependence a bit.

6:
Neat. Nice to have.

7: Okay, you get a speed bonus now- see my notes on it.

8:
???
Damage reduction goes up? Is that it? Am I missing something?

9:
This is great! It feeds fury, which is nice, and it gives you a bit more damage, which is also nice! It's pretty close to an ideal class feature.

10:
Okay, a crit-build might be nice. Except that again, relying on Fury-> Destruction is unreliable, and building for it follows opposite lines to ordinary crit-builds.
Immunity bypass is nice.

11
See notes on Defense. Essentially, it runs counter to the Brute's design.

12: Damage reduction? That it?

13:
It's poorly timed for another AC bonus to come right after Defense.
14:
AC and DR. eh.

15:
Yaaay extra attack.

16+:
Got bored of reviewing at this point. Sorry.

My suggestions:
Tweak DR so he gets fury from it.
Needs some source of attack bonuses- either full BAB or a Fury power.
Consider an alternate defense to natural armor- perhaps a regenerating pool of temporary hitpoints
Fury needs to be either simplified or reworded.
Needs more abilities on even levels.

There are two abilities that I think you should consider adding to the class.
Face-block: The Brute does not parry or dodge his foes; neither does he hide behind the cowardice of armor. Instead, he faces his foe head on, daring them to do their worst. At the start of every round, he gains temporary hit points equal to his level + his Constitution modifier as long as he is not wearing armor.

Function: This feature is intended to make building Fury less punishing. The regenerating shield of temp hit points lets him build Fury without having to risk death in the process.

Enrage: As a free action, the Brute may deal any amount of nonlethal damage to himself; this damage increases his Fury as normal.

Function: This lets the Brute build Fury easily and consistently. It's important for Destroyer suicide crit-builds, to make sure that the Brute can deal those extra points of damage/get that extra speed at the start of the encounter.
Fun fact: Nonlethal damage can't be absorbed via temporary hit points.
Fun fact: Whenever you are healed, you recover an equal amount of real and temporary hit points- this should somewhat reduce the danger of nearly killing yourself in a round.

artimus261
2017-04-06, 09:20 PM
I definitely feel you made a strong case and i have a lot to look at but there are a few things I do want to mention. Natural armor actually stacks with an actual armor bonus and is why i handled it somewhat carefully. I hope you at least saw the last few traits, being able to become colossal is a pretty nice level 20 ability. I do think that some of their traits kind of fight against each other and i do like your idea for the damage being resisted by their DR becoming fury for them as well.

The speed bonus i think is useful because they also gain fury from spells and ranged attacks so if some jerk chucks a spear at you or hits you with a fireball they can sprint their ass off to get to that jerk.

The round thing states that their fury lasts until the end of the brute's actual round so whatever they haven't spent before the end of THEIR round goes away. But then it begins to build immediately afterwards all the way to the start of their turn again.

The amounts given for their fury spending were given so that they needed higher values for the benefit so that they had to be a little more choosey.

In general I wanted to keep them somewhat inaccurate since they can potentially be swinging around a 3d6 or worse weapon like no big deal.

And while threatening criticals for them is difficult I wanted to tread carefully since they have so many ways to dump in even more so that when a critical does come around they might be hitting for something like 9d6 + 42 or ever worse on a simple melee attack.

I was thinking about making the strain muscle grant them a +3 attack and damage on their melee attack instead of just another +4 damage.

All in all I was a little hesitant to give them more accuracy considering how hard they'll be hitting. At level 20 they'll be able to throw on a +32 Str bonus... even with the -8 on attack that's a +8 attack and +16 damage :U limited uses but paired with the +12 natural armor and even more Con they become pretty deadly

The AC bonuses were given since in the end there will still be times that they'll want to avoid an attack. Clearly not often but when a big ol dragon takes a snap at you it might be better to avoid.

I'm definitely going to do some of your changes, I really liked the DR -> fury idea, helping them soak up lots more and making the fury uses even easier without getting them knocked silly.

I do like the enrage ability, might have to throw them that somewhere, letting them take a round to grow their fury and maybe make it so that if they've used enrage they keep the fury they've gained until the end of their NEXT round, so that way they could spend a round stockpiling for some big retaliation and would help them make use of some of the other more 'out of combat' abilities like Strength. Think the only thing I'd be worried about in that case is their ability to gain real fast healing by taking nonlethal damage, at that point they could truly handle their own injuries all the time, albeit in a strange to watch fashion ;P

hmmm, you've given me much to think about and thanks for the review! hope i didn't come across as a prat in this <3

artimus261
2017-04-06, 09:43 PM
There, now they now gain fury from their DR, gain a small accuracy bonus paired with the damage bonus from Strain Muscle, and now gain enrage which i made a little more penalizing, considering it's a full-round action, but it now also lets them keep their fury, letting them reach higher amounts without being beat the eff down. liked face face-block but think that with their Dr feeding their fury they didn't need it paired along with it, especially now that they can grow fury on their own, even spending it right after for fast healing which is nice, considering making enrage have a hinge that would require that she had suffered damage from attack before her turn to use it, i really don't want a brute to be able to just stand in the woods thinking angry thoughts and getting healed for it yano?

also wanted to mention one last thing for her slam attack which is mainly a way to give them a weapon that DOES grow with her size unlike other weapons she'd wield

also hope you got to crushing blows which might not happen often but i think really makes the criticals they do get pretty damn devastating. anyway, if you have any more thoughts of if anyone else does i'd be happy to hear it <3

artimus261
2017-04-06, 10:00 PM
isn't much but threw them listen

artimus261
2017-04-06, 10:18 PM
wanted to kinda explain why i went so light on level 1 and really it was to scare of level droppers. Powerful build is a pretty big thing to give a class at level 1 and didn't want to see a fighter or barb just dropping a level in to swing a large greatsword around, though i guess that would come at a price anyway with the average bab and low skills in mind.... ugh... i just fear the level droppers xP

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-06, 11:38 PM
holy gonzales quadruple post


Replies, roughly point-by-point:
I'll give you the anti-ranged thing, I suppose.

I am still somewhat confused by the Fury point thing. Could you give a round-by-round explanation (as per the example initiative order I gave) to explain how it proceeds (perhaps with the same numbers)? It would help me clarify your wording.

Being accurate is worlds better than having a 3d6 attack. Why? Think about it this way: Full BAB works out to a +5 attack roll bonus. With Power Attack, I can turn that into +10 to damage. That's a whole lot more than an extra 1d6 damage. A whole lot more. Size categories push damage a little further, but not that much further until level 20.


I'm going to be honest- those damage values you gave don't worry me that much. A crit happens something like 1-2 in 20 rolls, generally, and is worth about 2 extra attacks (1 normal attack which you hit with + 2 from the extra bonus damage) already.
Ignoring level 20 (because it's going to be less than 5% of their career, in general), they don't actually do that much bonus damage outside using Force. Yes, a 3d6 weapon looks bad- but statistically, it's about the same as a 2d6 weapon being used by a raging barbarian. It's mostly impactful at extremely low levels.

That change makes Strain Muscle better, but I don't know that it needs to be? I saw it mostly as a combination of two good things already- a little more damage is always nice, but it's also a repeatable way to build Fury. I might put the accuracy bonus elsewhere. That's just me, though, and it's in a good place.

Don't look at level 20- there's a gigantic spike in damage there. Look at level 19, which I think is much more representative of the class.

You can put the AC bonuses in I guess? They just are pretty bad, since you can't use them without getting hit first, and it doesn't last more than a round; you just switch to getting destroyed every other round.

Enrage taking a full-round action: Eh... that's a whole lot of action disadvantage for dubious benefit.

On self-heal: They can do it already- by slapping themselves for nonlethal damage (it's an attack!) then spending the rage on healing.
Why is it fast healing instead of direct healing? Is there a reason? As far as I know, it's directly equivalent.

Slam: Okay, I guess... It just means that level 1 is very sad- there are no active abilities until level 3 (which is a reactive ability), so the class isn't very interesting until level 4.

Yeah, I saw crushing blow. Eh. It's a whole lot of power, but there's little ability to control it until level 17, so it's likely to go off against minions more often than bosses. Do consider that druids could deal 1d10 points of Con damage back at level 5 (admittedly with a Fort save attached).


If you're worried about Powerful Build dips- do note that you can get somewhat better options dip-wise by playing a Goliath thanks to its stat bonuses, and you don't have to give Powerful Build to the class at level 1- you could give the armor bonus instead, for example, or something more interactive.

artimus261
2017-04-07, 12:10 AM
Well to give you a combat break down of how their fury gain goes I'll put it likes this

Initiative Order
Orc, 19
Orc, 17
Brute, 14
Orc, 13

In the first two rounds of this combat the two orcs hit the brute, one dealing 6 damage and the other dealing 5.
At the start of the brute's round she now has 11 fury to spend. She decides to spend 9 of it on simply gaining the healing, granting her 3 hp back but it leaves her with 2 fury remaining. At the end of her turn this 2 fury is eliminated since it was not spent. However the orc after her hits her for 4 damage granting her 4 fury once more. Since it is now the other two orcs turns she continues to keep her 4 fury from the last orc and gains another 5 from one and 4 from the second. Now it is her turn again and she now has 4 fury from the orc that had gone after her, 5 from the initiative 19 orc, and 4 from the initiative 17 orc, giving her a total of 13 to now spend on her current round. She could then choose to dump all of it into her melee damage, giving her a +6 bonus to the damage roll of a single melee attack.

The melee damage they can harness from their fury is why im still hesitant to give them more accuracy. While missing out on 5 does hurt, i know it does, a brute could easily harness an additional 20 damage at any given point as long as she took 40 damage before her turn. Now that her damage reduction feeds her fury as well this is all the more possible, if that 40 damage was divided among three or four attacks there's a very real chance that she gained that 20 bonus damage while only taking 10 or even less damage herself. Since damage is so within reach for them even without things like power attack i think it's more balanced to make sure they do actually miss more often. While a barbarian might end up getting +10 str during a rage which is strong, how long will that last in the day? These bonuses, while less reliable than the barbarian or the fighter, ensure that when the brute does strike she should be able to hit with a powerful swing and she can do this throughout the day without worrying about daily uses.

And now with the changes to strain muscle they can close that accuracy gap when they really want it. Between the +3 they gain there at their option, albeit for one attack, and the potential +4 Str they gain that equals out to that +5 attack without granting them a whole other attack. Hell throw on a weapon focus to something and i think they'll still perform just fine, despite missing more than a barb or fighter might. Even those who choose +4 Con instead of +4 Str end up gaining ANOTHER 40 hit points by level 20 which results in a total of 80 bonus hp that the class just gave to them, hell throw on Improved Toughness and your looking at a character who has, for a few class choices and 1 feat an extra 100 hp which i think also helps make up for the lack of bab. I completely understand how they will be hurting for that bab but i simply think that with the damage bonuses they have within reach at almost all points throughout the day without even having to hurt their accuracy like those with power attack must for a similar bonus that giving them a full bab would just push it a little too far.

In the end i just feel it's more appropriate for them to be less accurate than these classes that have been trained and learned the real way of combat as opposed to these... well... brutes that have only survived and compete by inflicting occasional huge blows.

I'll admit the enrage was a little nerfed from your example but now that it lets them hold onto their fury for additional rounds and still adds more to the stack there's a very real chance that the brute at later levels could easily make use of her Destruction ability while still adding critical confirmation and even still another +10 or more damage to the automatic threat or just gaining... what like a +50 on a damage roll? While that may only equal out to an extra attack or two for someone else it also helps them bite through DR in ways that characters that rely on multiple attacks just cant.

I do still think i need to throw them something small at 1st level cuz i'll admit, it's a little light at 1st, but i want to make sure that even those who are just dipping in have to go a little further if they're looking for a bonus to AC that doesn't rely on equipment choices like the monk

artimus261
2017-04-07, 08:12 AM
think im going to move the hit point boost down to 1st level but also have a small amendment that makes it so that if this was literally a character's 1st level, 1st character level i guess, they gain 8 hit points at 1st and continue to gain 2 every level thereafter. That would bump them up to 20 + Con hp at 1st which is pretty heavy for the level and late game that extra 6 hp won't break them :) happy with it, also probably going to throw them an axe here and there so give some slashing options

Also took away most of the bludgeoning weapon restrictions, except for Crushing Blows

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-07, 11:23 AM
Oh! Okay.
Wording for fury:
Whenever the Brute takes damage, he gains that much Fury. At the end of his turn, the Brute loses all unspent fury.

None of that confusion with previous turns or losing it at the end of the next turn this way.

Point on damage output from Force- I guess I can accept the inaccuracy.

If you're worried about them stacking on armor and their natural armor for potential dippability, you could consider having the natural armor go away while wearing armor, or even make it an armor bonus instead? It would be unusual, but it would alleviate dipping concerns.

I'd like to take a look at monster expected damage ratings to work out how well this class does in fights.

...

Okay, found Pathfinder's guides. And, wow (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterCreation.html).
I retract my worry about not being able to use Fury powers.

...
Those numbers aren't accurate, though. Look at the Tarrasque- it deals about 133 damage per round, barring crits, if all its attacks hit. Spines deal about 150 if all hit.
That's significantly under the goal, for a pure beat-stick.
I guess I'm not sure how much damage this class will take.

Closing thoughts:
This class falls off at high levels, as non-damage forms of attack become more common.
Other important things its missing: Energy resistance as an alternative mode of DR.
Proficiencies need a tweak: I suggest simple and martial weapon proficiency, but restricted to one- and two- handed weapons. I don't think eliminating good crit weapons will keep out people who want to optimize for them, and this makes the class a bit more future-compatible.

artimus261
2017-04-07, 12:08 PM
I LOOOOVE the idea about just giving them simple and martial sans light and ranged weapons, gives them a nice breadth of weapons while still keeping out some of more critical oriented weapons and ranged attacks, in the end still might just end up giving them a broader list written out without the weapons like falchion, scimitar, and rapier. really trying to keep them away from the 18-20 weapons unless they want to actually put in the feat or multiclass for the 'weapon training'

I'll admit that those damages are pretty huge but considering that the tarrasque does that damage over the course of 6 whole attacks even if all did it the brute would be taking a whopping 60 less, still not a fun time for him but he could weather it, and at the levels he'd be fighting something like that he still has the colossal thing letting him straight up wrestle the damn thing which i gotta say, i'd pay to see a loin-cloth wearin mother-effer just grow to his size and get him in a headlock like a bad ass... or hell even pin a dragon down xD

But outside of all that i definitely hear you in the energy resistance and this whole time I've been trying to workin Face-Block because bro, i really liked it. Do you think taking away their natural armor bonus and giving them that temporary hp/round benefit would balance out? They'd be getting hit like... ALL the time... but considering they'd have temp hp + DR each round it would really help them soak it up, not to mention soak up energy damage considering it's temp hp and not dr. In the end a level 8 brute with 18 Con, between the point at 4th and 5th that's not unreasonable, who took a 27 damage attack would only really take 11 damage, 4 of it dropping off from his DR and 12 of it dropping the temporary hp, all of that still giving him his 27 fury... then considering that he could channel that fury into healing 9 of the damn damage... that's 2 if he wanted it that way, could still just throw it into a +12 damage bonus and still heal 1 of it... a lot to think about.... xU

I really wanna thank you for taking your time to help me with this. As i started out working on this I just liked the idea of a melee class being able to grow in size and in the end it became one of the smaller parts of the class and grew into something im pretty proud of in truth. I definitely think it still needs some tweaking but I think it's fairly strong for a class that just takes attacks to the face all day.

artimus261
2017-04-07, 01:35 PM
Thinking about giving them face-block but nerfing it to 1/2 class level each round, keeping the natural armor and actually giving them a buff to their slam. I realized that it's only selling points as of now are 1. can't be taken away(okay i guess?), 2. grows with them when they change sizes(okay sure), and 3. Improved Grab(eh? it's something?). In the end it will always be an attack that can't be enchanted and can't even be used for a true full attack since it's a natural weapon.

So in the end I'm thinking about moving some things around on the level advancement and also giving them THIS:

Devastating Smash: At 8th the brute's slam attack gains a +1 bonus to it's threat range and critical multiplier (making it a, for a medium character, 2d6, 19-20/x3 weapon at 8th). pretty darn good. But then wait! At 16th level these bonuses increase to +2 (making it a 2d6, 18-20/x4 weapon. the threat range of a rapier with the damage of a greatsword, and the critical oomph of a scythe. all in all pretty decent considering it can still only be used once per round. it at least becomes a decent option instead of being this class feature that just kinda warrants a shoulder shrug. On top of that the feat improved natural attack would pump it up to 3d6 for a medium character and the improved critical(slam) feat would give it an extra 1 threat range (im having it's benefit specifically only apply to the base threat range of the slam before the bonuses are applied) turning the bloody thing into a 3d6 + 1-1/2 Str, 17-20/x4 weapon!!! can't decide if it's broke or not, they get the ability to auto threaten later which is a big deal with this thing but they still deal with the average bab of the class... ugh... things

artimus261
2017-04-07, 09:49 PM
so in the end a lot just change for whoever has been keeping up with updates.

Draw Strength, the ability that gives them the use of fury, has been dropped to 3rd level, a decent change to give it to them at an even earlier level. However they now only receive Force at that level, having to wait until 5th before they gain the healing use, from there it's same as usual.

Enrage was dropped to 4th level to get it out of the way earlier and give them the option fairly early on to grow their fury over the course of multiple rounds.

They gained the ability Stoic Vigor at 6th level which gives them a pool of temporary hit points each round equal to 1/2 their class level that regenerates at the start of each of their turns. thank you aimlessPolymath for that idea, it was truly great and with everything else they have i feel that will be that slight nudge into greatness for them, even 3 temp hp at 6th level could end up sparing them a decent amount of actual damage each round and considering that it still gives them fury they can spend on healing damage they DID take i feel it's a fair trade off for the small pool

They ended up getting the boost to their slam attack, making it a decent choice in combat for them, though still not outright better than them swinging around a greatsword or the like against multiple foes, but in the end capable of much heavier single blows than almost any manufactured weapon

A small example of what they could do altogether with these abilities would be something like this

A dragon hits a lvl 16 Brute for 40 damage in a single attack
That brute has 8 temporary hp along with 8 DR, already dropping the damage to 24 in one stroke. However he still receives the full 40 points for his fury. From there if he wished he could restore a total of 13 hp to himself with the healing, reducing the total damage dealt to him to a simple 11, already not too shabby. Or if he wished to inflict some damage instead he could turn that 40 into a +20 damage bonus for a single attack, also not shabby, especially when paired with his strain muscle ability and his enhanced strength.
All in all this allows him to reduce even heavy damage to potentially small amounts or deal the damage right back with his large weapon damages and easily attainable damage bonuses

artimus261
2017-04-07, 10:37 PM
Making a custom feat that a brute can select to make her fury abilities a little more powerful if they're willing to put in the effort

Listed at bottom of class entry at top.

artimus261
2017-04-08, 08:55 AM
Wow, did want to bring up something I hadn't quite thought about for the brute.

Her Knockdown ability. While it only lets the brute knock an opponent prone on a failed save and move them about I want you all to consider a few facts about the hell that is being prone: 1. you take a -4 penalty to your AC against melee attacks(knockdown + swift attack could spell trouble for an opponent who's stuck next to them for a full attack action afterwards) and 2. getting up provokes, which I'm sure you all know, but considering that all of her attacks until the start of her next turn have the knockdown attribute you might get up just to be knocked the eff down AGAIN as an attack of opportunity(plus at her larger sizes a brute has decent reach and could potentially move an enemy away from her while still repeatedly knocking them down just to have them provoke for trying to move back into attack range)

All in all considering those things i think knockdown was actually better than even i really gave it credit for and even slightly promotes a Combat Reflexes Dex build for them which i never really saw coming, even with just a 14 or 16 Dex and her 10ft reach while large a brute could keep a decent number of enemies at bay around her and no matter what gives her some additional attacks against enemies despite her average bab

artimus261
2017-04-08, 09:21 AM
also just bumped the bonus hp from Unearthly Vitality up a point, 3 at each level, or 12 at 1st if it is your 1st character level then 3 each level after. considering their lack of armor or shields, not getting dr or even the 1 point of natural armor until 2nd i felt they needed a slightly larger nudge, and after determining an amount of hp a level 20 brute might have as an example i felt they needed just a little more.

This way your brute could very well end up with something like 24 con by 20th(if you spent their regular and class ability points on it) giving them, already, a base of 140hp, then throw in the 24 at 1st level, and the 57 from the rest of unearthly vitality you already have a character with 221hp before her 19d12s. They might make someone cringe but considering that they will have something like 15 + Dex AC at 20th i don't think that's too big of a problem. from there just using the 'average' roll for their d12s which ends up as 123, youre looking at 344hp. Heck, throw in Improved Toughness just for fun and this beast is at 364hp at 20th level, with DR 10/-, a nice refilling pool of 10 temp HP/round, and the ability to potentially heal 1/3 of the damage she takes(although doing this would ensure that she wasn't dealing the humongous amounts of damage she's capable of if she chooses to, they kinda have to pick one of the other unless they dabble in both), all in all i think this all easily makes up for the lack of armor, skills, good bab, saves, and weapon proficiencies, it's still very harsh and im sure taking so much damage all the time would make someone nervous but i think they could handle it. First attack each round would be dropped by 20 points and all the others would still be dropped by 10.

To use aimlessPolymath's Tarrasque exmample of 133 damage this would be divided up among 6 attacks, so already that's 60 damage dropped from it to 73, take off the 10 for the temp hp, that's 63, she still gains the full 133 fury so let's just say she uses all of it to heal and we're looking at a grand total of 19 damage from a full attacking tarrasque. Again that's still requiring that the brute devotes all of her fury to staying healthy, preventing her from using Force, Critical, and Destruction, but damn, that is a tank after all

Just for funsies let's look at that same brute swinging it right back at the tarrasque. So no matter what the damage gets dropped to that nice 63, still an impressive drop in damage without any real effort on the brute's part. Now she wants that damn tarrasque to suck it. She uses her strain muscle to get that nice boost of +3 attack/damage and adds another 2 fury, 135 total. By this point im hoping she's gotten her str to 20, not an altogether impossible feat, throw in a weapon focus somewhere or hell, just a +5 weapon(which with the attack roll bonus they'd surely appreciate over other enchantments) and we're looking at an attack roll of +29 if all is well. with a 35 ac that tarrasque isn't avoidin this. so she uses her destruction to auto-threaten with her... let's say large greataxe, for a 3d6 + 15 damage roll( +7 from Str, +5 from weapon enchantment, +3 from Strain muscle). Now that still leaves her with... 85 fury... 85. So let's say she dumps all of that into Force. that's... um... +42 damage. so the whole damn thing is 3d6 + 57 damage... wait for it. x3!!! so on a confirmed hit that's 9d6 + 171 damage.... hmmm... did i break it? is that bad? someone halp xD i don't know if that's too much or not!!!

That's not even with the Fury Specialization feat which would let her gain... oh god... +56... so that would be 9d6 + 213!!! :U that's like a fourth of the damn things health... i might need to rethink the costs of her Force ability :(

I guess DR 15/epic and Regen 40 is pretty nice but even still... that would only drop it down to 9d6 + 158...

long post, congrats if you read all this number gobbledygook and halp if you did, i think they're actually somewhat broken late game xU

artimus261
2017-04-08, 09:59 AM
hopefully the last touch ups of the class:

The Force ability of her Draw Strength had it's cost increased to 5 fury for every +2 damage

Enrage has become a standard action, allowing her to move while keeping her fury, and with the addition of swift attack, move, enrage, attack

Strain Muscle was lowered to a +2 on attack and damage

Strength of the Titan now consumes 3 uses of Unleash Fury

LAST LAST EDIT: Crushing Blows now deals 1d4+1 Con damage, it now inflicts a minimum of a 1 modifier drop and a maximum of a 3 modifier drop on con, potentially terrifying. Also now clarifies that it only works on corporeal targets, i don't care if you're axe can touch a ghost it doesn't have a definitive physical structure so what exactly are you crushing?

with all of this they can still compete with an on-level fighter at early levels, missing them but still capable of inflicting heavy damage on successful hits, and don't hit the poor defenseless tarrasque for a quarter of his health at late levels, the poor thing

None of this even factored in her ability to become colossal and I'm not sure I want to even think about it... was even considering taking away Destruction or moving it to 20th and taking away the Giant Size effect... but no, i'll let em keep it all, it's only up to 3 minutes a day for the thing

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-08, 05:23 PM
That's a lot of posts.

On Knockdown: Yeah, being prone is nasty, but it's somewhat limited by the fact that the Brute is actually terrible at taking advantage of it. They don't have the feats for an easy trip build, they have poor BAB so a trip lockdown build doesn't work super well, and they can't easily take advantage of that AC penalty, since most of their damage comes from spending Fury on one attack.

Edit: Whoops. Didn't realize that it affects all your attacks. Never mind, it's good (possibly too good now).

Stoic Vigor looks good.


Let's compare it to a Barbarian who, for whatever reason, is dumping, say, 10 points into Power Attack and making a full attack (which admittedly is one of the best damage options- it's not entirely an apples-to-apples comparison, but the Fury gets most of their damage from single attacks).

They have four attacks; let's assume the first three hit. They're using a +5 greatsword, also grabbed Weapon Focus, and have around 30 Strength or so when raging. So, they have a +26/+21/+16/+9 attack sequence post-Power Attack, and deal
2d6 + 20 from Power Attack + 15 from Strength + 5 from magic ~= 47 damage on average. That's about 10 points less than the Brute gets on one attack with Force but without Destruction, but it's on multiple attacks, with a comparable or higher attack bonus, and they get it on every single attack. If they hit with three attacks, that's roughly similar (if weaker) damage output than the Brute. (of course, that 35 AC is a lot- I'd expect around two hits, more often, a smaller Power Attack, or more attack boosts) So it's a lot more consistent, but deals less damage. If we consider that damage reduction is stopping three attacks vs. one, it's even lower- the Barbarian will deal in the realm of 100ish damage, which is far less than the Brute.

Thoughts from this quick look:
The main force-multiplier (literally) here is Destruction, which generally will triple the damage output of the Brute. Without using it, observe that the damage from that one attack drops immensely, down to around 3d6 + 70. That's a lot of damage, but if the Barbarian hits twice, they can match it without needing to be hit first.

So yeah, I'd call the Giant Size and Destruction the two largest balance issues- the first one superboosts accuracy and damage output, letting the Brute wreck face incredibly easily (that +32 to strength translates into +24 to damage on each attack, and Colossal size translates to 8d6 ~= 28 base weapon damage), while the second screws with Force damage calculations, increasing the power of Force by a massive degree.

artimus261
2017-04-08, 06:06 PM
I knoooooow :U I love those two features but they're the problem and don't know what to do!!! :U maybe Strength of the Titan prevents fury gain for it's duration... It's arguably better than all of the features they gain by spending fury... Eh? That could work... maybe... Ugh... Must work on :U

Thank you so much for working on this with me. You've really helped them become something amazing, now I just need to find a balance for their late levels.

artimus261
2017-04-08, 06:33 PM
There was some adjustments I had been mulling over and think that if I A. Took away destruction, and B. let them keep Strength of the Titan with expending 2 uses of Unleash Fury and allowed Fury gain and use during it's duration I could potentially implement the following but don't know if it's worth losing out on Destruction (because I do think that taking away Fury gain while under the effects of Strength of the Titan would definitely be a huge balancing point) but here they are

A. Thick Skinned also provides a 5-10% chance PER POINT of granted natural armor to reduce critical hits made against him to normal strikes, would help them continue to gain fury without them having to worry about being blindsided with a huge strike

and

B. Deadened Nerves: The brute's body has suffered so many injuries and experienced so much pain that those sensations no longer bother her. The brute is now immune to all pain effects.

Deadened Nerves isn't crazy but it's definitely a feature and it fits the theme of the build... but really not sure if immunity to pain effects and a scaling 25-50% chance to ignore critical damage is worth losing destruction over...

Thoughts? <3 <3 <3

aimlessPolymath
2017-04-08, 07:09 PM
Pain effects are fairly rare, actually. That level of crit negation is valued as a +1-3 armor bonus effect.
Neither is anywhere near as good as an automatic crit that can be activated consistently.

I think that Destruction would be better served not being a Fury Power.

What if...
and this is kinda a dumb idea...
you switched the activation methods of both of them?

That is, you can spend Fury to upgrade the power of your Unleashing Fury to a larger size temporarily, and a few times per day, you can make an attack into a crit?

Rising Fury: At 19th level, once per round, while Unleashing Fury is active, you can spend 50 points of Fury to increase your size by one category. This increase lasts as long as Unleashing Fury persists.

Sidestep the immense power of size categories by forcing the Brute to build up over several rounds! You could even drop the per-round requirement, if you wanted, because that Fury cost won't be paid quickly barring Enrage.

Destruction: At 20th level, three times per day, you can automatically threaten a critical with one of your attacks.

Sidestep the incredible damage output of the class by limiting its reliability!

(also switched levels to keep learned Fury powers at he same rate).

artimus261
2017-04-08, 08:45 PM
That would help but i don't think it feels right for the class.

I think I'm going to keep Strength of the Titan at 2 uses of unleashing fury to activate, prevent fury use during the duration, increase the cost of Destruction to 100.

Considering that enrage was dropped to standard, grants up to 20 fury by itself as nonlethal and allows them to keep it growing over the course of multiple rounds it should still be achievable, especially in the larger fights like with mr. tarrasque.

I think this way they can still trade out the fury abilities for a gigantic, haha, increase in consistent combat ability for a short period. However for a little effort they can still achieve powerful critical hits but with far less fury to spend on force and the like.

I think I still might throw in deadened nerves but with a slight boost to it, already knew pain effects were sparse in general, but going to give them Diehard with it as well, and becoming immune to staggering from nonlethal damage and only falling unconscious from nonlethal damage when it equal his total hp and not his current hp. will let him use enrage a loooooot more without fear of knocking himself out with it...

Although with being able to achieve critical threats consistently and still being able to grow to colossal, albeit never at the same time, that still makes them fairly powerful even with the double cost of destruction and the lack of fury use during Strength of the Titan

artimus261
2017-04-08, 09:34 PM
the 100 fury is definitely steep but with a decent con of 22 or higher they can easily HOLD up to 120+ fury

If they end up picking up Fury specialization(force), because lets be honest who wouldn't with this class, that drops the cost for it down to 4/+2
Now if they decide to spend each of their ability points and class points on Con, that's 9 points total, they could easily get to 24 or 26 Con.

Now if they take the damage and enrage themselves enough to get to that 140 or 160 fury they could still get the destruction, gain up to 10-15 stacks of Force for 20-30 bonus damage and with even 18 Str and the +5 large greataxe which would still come down to around 9d6+123 which is still pretty effing heavy but it required that brute to rly poor on the Con as he leveled, picked up a feat to lower the force cost, and grow his actual fury for the attack. And even without the huge con they could still pick up 2, 3, or 4 fury specializations to basically gain his con mod of fury capacity for each feat so with 20 con each feat would still let the brute hold an additional 5 fury total while also dropping the cost of fury abilities by a point a piece which for things like force, healing, speed, and even critical it's pretty rewarding

Almarck
2017-04-08, 09:52 PM
Before anything else, you might want to make your class more professional.


Use the following template by quoting this post and editing it.





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Starting Gold: What amount of currency your class starts at level one with normally ("As barbarian," "As cleric," "As druid," "As fighter," "As monk," and "As sorcerer" are the standard options, though feel free to put down the numbers, as well.).

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15th

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16th

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17th

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18th

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19th

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20th

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Class Ability



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the CLASS NAME.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: What weapons and armor your class is proficient in the use of!

All other class features go here (Use the format shown directly below if you don't know what to do.)!

CLASS FEATURE NAME (Ex, Su, Sp, Ps):

artimus261
2017-04-09, 12:29 AM
thanks Almarck, love how that all turned out :D

artimus261
2017-04-09, 07:56 AM
threw in Knowledge(geography)

sling? yay? nay? i mean i made it hard for them to even learn how to swim so i'm unsure xP they are not meant to be bright, i swear if anyone puts a 16 into a Brute's Int score then it's on you to explain why they can't master the secret of treading water lol, though i guess with that putting cross class points in wouldn't be bad and really, to me, it still makes sense that they have a hard time of it. look at that picture and tell me she doesn't have to work harder to keep all that floating ;P

artimus261
2017-04-09, 08:47 AM
probably lastly: putting together a little custom craft skill, Craft[primitive weapons] for the brute. I imagine they're able to put some stuff together but the list is going to be pretty specific, but also include weapons they aren't proficient with like the iuak and tigerskull club out of frostburn... think it fits and gives them one more skill if they want to make some stuff for themselves :) additionally they won't suffer penalties for not having tools for the checks which is eh, something, but will of course still receive the bonus for having good tools

artimus261
2017-04-09, 03:51 PM
feel like maybe i should include some swallow whole rules, considering a colossal brute would by like 80ft+ tall... but... well... I think someone people would like that too much xP but if a dm wants to allow it i imagine a brute could, slam + improved grab -> swallow whole

Mr.J
2017-04-10, 01:26 PM
With that last combination you mentioned, wouldn't that be an instant-kill? Also, would something this large be very slow, or still move in the same actions as everyone else. For say: Attack on Titan the Colossal Titan takes centuries to move, and this thing is pretty freaking large. Would it also be swift, or would it be so slow that small creatures could easily be like ants crawling on it at mach-speed.

artimus261
2017-04-10, 02:03 PM
Well swallow whole rules have ACs for the 'gizzard' and hp so a character can cut their way out, though every round a creature inside takes an amount of bludgeoning/acid damage(so one would need DR and Resistance to ignore it) and there's also grappling rules for someone to fight their way out back to the mouth, usually that's where another grapple check occurs but i'd probably rule that it gets you out scott free, though there's still that 80 foot fall xD in the end i think most dms would rule that our throats arent quite meant for that and can't be used to swallow whole, but some might say differently, no matter what it isn't exactly in the classes intent to grant THAT to a player. as for the colossal size speed they'd technically look like they're taking forever, their speed remains at it's base value, so while 30ft is normal for a medium character they also just took a bunch of steps, for something that big to only move 30ft as a move action that'd be like 1 step i'd imagine

jqavins
2017-04-10, 03:08 PM
I haven't read all the details yet, let alone all the posts, but I wanted to point out one little discrepancy. I underlined the relevant bits.


Despite her lacking of social skills, survival skills, and even formal combat training the sheer brutality and fortitude of the brute keeps her alive when others would fall...

Class Skills
The brute's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb(Str), Craft[primitive weapons](Int)*, Intimidate(Cha), Jump(Str), Knowledge[geography](Int), Knowledge[nature](Int), Listen(Wis), Spot(Wis), Survival(Wis)

artimus261
2017-04-10, 03:16 PM
LOL DARN YOU xD they originally didn't have Survival and i gave it to them later xD i was being laaaaaazy!!!

artimus261
2017-04-10, 06:07 PM
think I'm touching up Strain Ligaments to either be +2 Ref and +2 Initiative or just adding +4 Initiative to it since those two would never really overlap or help each other in any way, wouldn't make it overpowered or nothing... yeah im doing that, I DECREE IT!