Sorcerers, explicitly allowed to know spells not from Sorcerer spell list.

[SangoProduction]

OK. I'm branching off this thread from that one about knowstones where like 5 different conversations are happening at once.

So, it was brought up by Psyren that spells are cast from a character's spell list (or strictly raw only the class-wide spell list, since the rules [for the Wizard] don't say the character's spell list but just the class spell list...but common sense is usable here).

My thought: "OK, if it just grants a 'spell known', then that's got to be a defined term, which, according to the argument, is separate from 'spell list'." So, I went and checked out the Sorcerer Spells section.

OK. The reason why I said it was a rules dysfunction was that I missed the literal first sentence. So, now I do believe it's actually an explicit capability of the Sorcerer. He can cast spells from other classes, if he can get the spells to be known. Here's my evidence.


A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study.

He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.

The Sorcerer has explicit permission to know spells not on the Sorcerer spell list. But regardless of being allowed to pick it up by level up or not (which is a reasonable restriction), he casts "any spell he knows." He does not cast directly from the spell list. So yeah, so long as he knows the spell, he can cast it.

[Keltest]

Well the obvious interpretation is that the language is to allow for custom spells created by the sorcerer and added to their list that way. I think without actually identifying some way of learning, say, a cleric spell, that's all that exception will allow them to do.

[SangoProduction]

Well the obvious interpretation is that the language is to allow for custom spells created by the sorcerer and added to their list that way. I think without actually identifying some way of learning, say, a cleric spell, that's all that exception will allow them to do.

Knowstones?

Regardless, custom spells is its own thing that's codified in the DMG, which, even Wizards, with more strict wording, qualifies for.

[Grim Reader]

I think its more complicated and depends on how the Sorcerer came to know the spell. For example, a Srocerer/Favored Soul Mystic Theurge will have quite a few Divine spells known, that he still can't use Sorcerer spell slots to cast.

[TheBrassDuke]

Jack_Simth and I tried to get this point (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423413-Sorcerers-learning-non-Sor-Wiz-Spells) across a long time ago, man. It basically comes down to DM's discretion. I always allow Sorcerers learning new spells now, if appropriate to the setting and character.

[Mordaedil]

Yeah, I see no problem in letting a sorcerer going on a quest to meet a gold dragon and learning a cleric spell once, assuming it helps the party.

But I wouldn't hand out spells like candy like that either. But giving candy to the players is always encouraged.

[SangoProduction]

Jack_Simth and I tried to get this point (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?423413-Sorcerers-learning-non-Sor-Wiz-Spells) across a long time ago, man. It basically comes down to DM's discretion. I always allow Sorcerers learning new spells now, if appropriate to the setting and character.

Well, that's a good little thread that gained quite some traction.

[Starbuck_II]

OK. I'm branching off this thread from that one about knowstones where like 5 different conversations are happening at once.

So, it was brought up by Psyren that spells are cast from a character's spell list (or strictly raw only the class-wide spell list, since the rules [for the Wizard] don't say the character's spell list but just the class spell list...but common sense is usable here).

My thought: "OK, if it just grants a 'spell known', then that's got to be a defined term, which, according to the argument, is separate from 'spell list'." So, I went and checked out the Sorcerer Spells section.

OK. The reason why I said it was a rules dysfunction was that I missed the literal first sentence. So, now I do believe it's actually an explicit capability of the Sorcerer. He can cast spells from other classes, if he can get the spells to be known. Here's my evidence.





The Sorcerer has explicit permission to know spells not on the Sorcerer spell list. But regardless of being allowed to pick it up by level up or not (which is a reasonable restriction), he casts "any spell he knows." He does not cast directly from the spell list. So yeah, so long as he knows the spell, he can cast it.

Oh, in my games in real life, I've long let Sorcs learn bard, duskblade, etc spells since it is are arcane. Yes, this means due to bard they can cure.

[Psyren]

(For the record, I'm not the one who originally quoted that line from the sorcerer's entry; I was discussing the Bard in the Knowstone thread.)

Anyway - the sorcerer can do this, yes. The trouble is the word "primarily", which has no RAW definition. The best definition we therefore have is that from the dictionary - "chiefly, mainly, for the most part." In other words, most of your spells must come from the sorc list. Does "most" mean 51% of them? 66%? 75%? 85%? 99.9%?

The only person who can definitively answer that is the GM.