Builds for soloing (published) adventures

[idesofmarch]

As I recall, in 3.5e a single-classed druid could solo entire adventures. A wizard too, provided they don't die at levels 1-2 and the DM is reasonable.

It's not as obvious how I should do this in 5e. I guess what I'm asking is a) can any build solo an adventure (using the official published ones as guidelines) and b) what builds are these?

(Assume XP gains keep the character at the standard level progression intended for the adventure, and that gold/resources are scaled down for 1 character.)

[Bahamut7]

As I recall, in 3.5e a single-classed druid could solo entire adventures. A wizard too, provided they don't die at levels 1-2 and the DM is reasonable.

It's not as obvious how I should do this in 5e. I guess what I'm asking is a) can any build solo an adventure (using the official published ones as guidelines) and b) what builds are these?

(Assume XP gains keep the character at the standard level progression intended for the adventure, and that gold/resources are scaled down for 1 character.)

I'm not sure how XP works in the published adventures, but if you are soloing it, you should be taking all the XP that would normally be split and actually level faster.

I will try to give some idea of how regardless. You need a class that operates on short rests. You will want stealth and environmental awareness to pin down enemies 1 at a time. I am not as versed at the different classes as others but I would lean towards Warlock (that range) and a Shadow Monk (though levels 1-2 will require caution and precision).

[mgshamster]

Not a dang one for any of the campaigns or AL modules I've ever run or played in. Or read, for that matter.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Not a dang one for any of the campaigns or AL modules I've ever run or played in. Or read, for that matter.

now now lets not be hasty. I'm sure there's something that could be done.

[mgshamster]

now now lets not be hasty. I'm sure there's something that could be done.

Fair. Let's see...

I haven't played/read Horde of the Dragon Queen, but I've heard that it's pretty deadly at low levels. I don't see anyone soloing that if a party has difficulty.

I've also heard similar issues with Princes of the Apocalypse, around early to mid levels.

I've run Out of the Abyss. There's just no way to solo that unless you're altering major parts of the campaign specifically to cater to a single PC.

Ravenloft has a very deadly intro and in general is a challenging adventure.

I've read a little bit of Storm King's Thunder. I really don't see any single PC surviving the orc raid in early levels.

And now Tales of the Yawning Portal is out. That finishes with Tomb of Horrors. Really think anyone will solo that?

[Mortis_Elrod]

Fair. Let's see...


hrmmm what about lmop?

[Morcleon]

You could probably solo it as a caster if you take advantage of hirelings in the early levels. I haven't actually played through any published adventures though, so I wouldn't know for a fact.

[8wGremlin]

We did a few unpublished solo dungeon crawls. The best soloist so far has been a vhuman arcane cleric with magic initiate: Druid and winged tiefling sorcerer/warlock

[ATHATH]

Actually, Tomb of Horrors might be a good candidate, if you know where all of the traps and such are beforehand and are allowed to metagame (or are just really subtle about it).

[busterswd]

hrmmm what about lmop?

Lost Mines starts with an ambush, leading to clearing out a cave full of goblins (unlikely the player will be able to rest in between encounters in the cave.) Then a town full of bandits with multiattack and a dungeon full of them.

It's a well balanced module in general, but level 1-3 tend to be swingy enough that without being extremely lenient with long rest rules, a single character just wouldn't have the staying power to make it through that many enemies.

A lot of the AL standalone adventures tend to be 1 or 2 more difficult fights based on shorter adventuring days.

[Herobizkit]

The considerations of soloing a pre-gen:


assumption of party composition. 5e pre-gens assume a party of 4-5 with all the base roles covered. Number of enemies encountered also assumes this number.
expectations of an adventuring day. Many 5e pre-gens have [x] encounters per adventuring day with two short rests pre-set in the mix, plus at least one Deadly encounter.
lack of available PC actions per round. One character will have one action, maybe one bonus action, maybe one reaction.
lack of PC options. One character has access to a limited scope of options (via skills, spells, gear and perhaps magic items). When the player is challenged by a puzzle/story complication, he has no extra minds with which to brainstorm.

Solutions:


Modify the encounters. Have less creatures and/or lower their HP. Optionally, use 4e-style Minion rules (mooks have have 1 HP; important NPCs/monsters are as presented).
Allow for NPC hirelings. Soldiers, sages, healers. They expect pay and not all of them will die for the PC.
Allow the player to run two characters. DM talks for the Companion, but PC runs both during combat/when mechanics come into play.
Start the player at a higher level. Usually 2-3 levels above the 'current' spot in the campaign arc should be plenty.


Hope this stirs up some inspiration! ^_^

[mgshamster]

He's not really asking how to alter adventures for a solo game. He's asking which class is so powerful that it can solo a game on its own.

You can always alter an adventure and dumb it down a bit so any given class can solo it. But as written, there are no classes which are so strong they could solo an adventure.

[Herobizkit]

He's not really asking how to alter adventures for a solo game. He's asking which class is so powerful that it can solo a game on its own.

You can always alter an adventure and dumb it down a bit so any given class can solo it. But as written, there are no classes which are so strong they could solo an adventure.Yeah, as is, no class/build can solo an adventure intended for its level - by design, for (some of?) the reasons I posted above.

[mgshamster]

Yeah, as is, no class/build can solo an adventure intended for its level - by design, for (some of?) the reasons I posted above.

Yeah. I agree. I do like your list, though! Great suggestions.

[Citan]

As I recall, in 3.5e a single-classed druid could solo entire adventures. A wizard too, provided they don't die at levels 1-2 and the DM is reasonable.

It's not as obvious how I should do this in 5e. I guess what I'm asking is a) can any build solo an adventure (using the official published ones as guidelines) and b) what builds are these?

(Assume XP gains keep the character at the standard level progression intended for the adventure, and that gold/resources are scaled down for 1 character.)
Hi!

Please bear with me as I didn't play (yet) any published adventures, but a few wild guesses...


1.. Moon Druid may usually have better luck than others, because he gets the most life earlier (Wild Shape THP) and has generally a great versatile pool of abilities.

2. A Bladesinger Wizard properly built (DEX & INT) will struggle until level 3 (but who doesn't really), but then should usually manage to survive, because he gets many spells to use either to prepare an encounter or avoid it entirely.

3. A Rogue focusing on archetypical fortes (always Hiding and Sneak Attack from a distance) may also gets by in most occasions, especially if he also bumps Charisma and Persuasion to find alternative solutions to the plain power face-off.

4. A Bard or Warlock may also find a way to convince everyone to help him or otherwise drop the fight, or sneak around like a Rogue...

5. A Paladin focusing spells on slef-buff and healing is good all-around, and resilience bumps heavily should he manage up to Aura of Protection. But I don't see how he could survive without at least mercenaries to help him though, unless DM is lenient and would agree on Rule of Cool borderline uses of Command (such as, you speak a course of action to someone then Command him to "Obey"). Or the campaign usually give him chance to interact with people he can actually Persuade to follow his views.

Beyond that, only specific builds for specific setting will work, such as Cleric/Paladin in undead-heavy campaign...
Reason for not considering others as "survivors" is either a lack in adventuring/social skills (such as Barbarian who cannot take everything), or lack of resilience (Sorcerers, Wizard).

And whatever happens, I don't see how any character, unless godly stats, could usually survive alone encounters tailored for 3-4 parties until at least character level 10-11, where casters begin accessing the "game-altering" spells.

[Morcleon]

An aarakocra probably could do better by dint of immunity to most melee attackers, and use long range abilities to pelt enemies.

[Potato_Priest]

I imagine that a moon druid could do alright. They have so much health that if they survived level 1 the next few low-level encounters could very plausibly be cheesed through.

A war cleric with gwm might also be able to handle themselves.

A swashbuckler or arcane trickster rogue could just sneak past most encounters.

[idesofmarch]

I'm not sure how XP works in the published adventures, but if you are soloing it, you should be taking all the XP that would normally be split and actually level faster.

I will try to give some idea of how regardless. You need a class that operates on short rests. You will want stealth and environmental awareness to pin down enemies 1 at a time. I am not as versed at the different classes as others but I would lean towards Warlock (that range) and a Shadow Monk (though levels 1-2 will require caution and precision).

The challenge really is soloing at the expected level. With additional XP, the character would scale proportionately to difficulty, and soloing becomes a nonissue (or even a boon).


Hi!

Please bear with me as I didn't play (yet) any published adventures, but a few wild guesses...


1.. Moon Druid may usually have better luck than others, because he gets the most life earlier (Wild Shape THP) and has generally a great versatile pool of abilities.

2. A Bladesinger Wizard properly built (DEX & INT) will struggle until level 3 (but who doesn't really), but then should usually manage to survive, because he gets many spells to use either to prepare an encounter or avoid it entirely.

3. A Rogue focusing on archetypical fortes (always Hiding and Sneak Attack from a distance) may also gets by in most occasions, especially if he also bumps Charisma and Persuasion to find alternative solutions to the plain power face-off.

4. A Bard or Warlock may also find a way to convince everyone to help him or otherwise drop the fight, or sneak around like a Rogue...

5. A Paladin focusing spells on slef-buff and healing is good all-around, and resilience bumps heavily should he manage up to Aura of Protection. But I don't see how he could survive without at least mercenaries to help him though, unless DM is lenient and would agree on Rule of Cool borderline uses of Command (such as, you speak a course of action to someone then Command him to "Obey"). Or the campaign usually give him chance to interact with people he can actually Persuade to follow his views.

Beyond that, only specific builds for specific setting will work, such as Cleric/Paladin in undead-heavy campaign...
Reason for not considering others as "survivors" is either a lack in adventuring/social skills (such as Barbarian who cannot take everything), or lack of resilience (Sorcerers, Wizard).

And whatever happens, I don't see how any character, unless godly stats, could usually survive alone encounters tailored for 3-4 parties until at least character level 10-11, where casters begin accessing the "game-altering" spells.

Moon druid is a good candidate. The lower levels are the trickiest, but once the conjure spells come online, between summons, wild shaping, and other spells, a moon druid has both utility and damage.

For wizards, soloing becomes possible at earliest with polymorph (but concentration is an issue). Later, with animate objects, mass suggestion, and simulacrum, the wizard should no longer have trouble soloing.


An aarakocra probably could do better by dint of immunity to most melee attackers, and use long range abilities to pelt enemies.

Good idea. Flight is rare in 5e and can trivialize a challenge.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I think Winged Tiefling Warlock is the best bet--flight negates a lot and only having to rest for an hour at a time helps. Plus EB is an infitely-spammable ranged attack.

[Citan]

The challenge really is soloing at the expected level. With additional XP, the character would scale proportionately to difficulty, and soloing becomes a nonissue (or even a boon).



Moon druid is a good candidate. The lower levels are the trickiest, but once the conjure spells come online, between summons, wild shaping, and other spells, a moon druid has both utility and damage.

For wizards, soloing becomes possible at earliest with polymorph (but concentration is an issue). Later, with animate objects, mass suggestion, and simulacrum, the wizard should no longer have trouble soloing.



Good idea. Flight is rare in 5e and can trivialize a challenge.
Well I quoted specifically Bladesinger Wizard mind you. ;)

Because with point-buy you can start with 16 in DEX and INT (which every Wizard should have anyways imo but that's another thing entirely) while still having 14 in CON and 10 elsewhere (admitedly bad as far as WIS is concerned but he's proficient in it).
Between starting 19 AC (+ potential Shield) when Bladesinging, Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider until he gets at least lvl 4, Minor Illusion to try and hide, Mage Hand to safely pick up things, and Shocking Grasp/Weapon cantrip/ranged cantrip to get by, I'd say he can be as competitive all in all as a Rogue survival-wise, except for stealthing. :)

And the rituals help much adventuring wise also (Familiar helps you scout and avoid ambushes, Alarm help secure your sleep, Unseen Servant or TFD to take care of the heavy lifting, etc).

[idesofmarch]

Well I quoted specifically Bladesinger Wizard mind you. ;)

Because with point-buy you can start with 16 in DEX and INT (which every Wizard should have anyways imo but that's another thing entirely) while still having 14 in CON and 10 elsewhere (admitedly bad as far as WIS is concerned but he's proficient in it).
Between starting 19 AC (+ potential Shield) when Bladesinging, Expeditious Retreat/Longstrider until he gets at least lvl 4, Minor Illusion to try and hide, Mage Hand to safely pick up things, and Shocking Grasp/Weapon cantrip/ranged cantrip to get by, I'd say he can be as competitive all in all as a Rogue survival-wise, except for stealthing. :)

And the rituals help much adventuring wise also (Familiar helps you scout and avoid ambushes, Alarm help secure your sleep, Unseen Servant or TFD to take care of the heavy lifting, etc).

I think you're right. Bladesingers also get a bonus to Con saves for concentration spells as well. They're a solid candidate alongside a flying moon druid.

While a flying warlock seems like a strong, low-level option, their spells don't scale to high-level the way wizards' do.

[Citan]

I think you're right. Bladesingers also get a bonus to Con saves for concentration spells as well. They're a solid candidate alongside a flying moon druid.

While a flying warlock seems like a strong, low-level option, their spells don't scale to high-level the way wizards' do.
Yeah, that is why I quoted only these ones. Diviner is also good, but 2 rerolls won't help if you are facing multiple enemies or a generally ****ty situation. Ajburer feature is imo worthless before at the very least level 5.

I wouldn't know which of Bladesinger or Moon are better from 1 to 8, I guess it depends much on the situation.
Moon gets temp HP per short rest, but very crappy AC usually unless built specifically for that (variant Human, starting 16 in WIS and DEX, feat:Magic Initiate: Wizard for Mage Armor, or Wood Elf taking the same feat later).
But he can use Wild Shape to flee instead of fighting, and there are forms extremely good for that (especially with some Longstrider/Jump stacked to it).
He can also use it beforehand (or a Speak with Animals ritual) to make animals scout for him (granted Wizard has Find Familiar).
And he has some of the best low-level battlefield spells (Moonbeam, Spike Growth, Plant Growth).

In comparison to that, Bladesinger gets pretty good AC overall, but much lesser hit points. And barring the Rituals, all the things he can do as good or better as a Druid rely on spell slots.
So he can, at least until level 6, be much much better than a Druid defense-wise (Mirror Image or Blur + occasional Shield) or mobility-wise (Longstrider + Expeditious Retreat) for example, but then he's stuck with cantrips.
He can be probably a bit better than Druid at stealthing, but only with Invisibility, while Druid can find ways in/outside as a tiny animal and avoid detection another way.

Same difference at level 5: Druid gets the "good-in-all-situations" Conjure Animals too. But Wizard can now prepare Glyphs of Warding, great benefit in situations when you have to stand your ground. Or just prepare a Leomund's Tiny Hut.

Hmm. Should we organize a "solo run" comparing how both fare up to level 6? :smallbiggrin:
(After level 6 both should be fine in most situations: Druid gets more slots and Conjure Woodlands Being at 7, Wizard gets Greater Invisibility/Polymorph/Hallucinatory Terrain and such...)

[Spore]

Rogue 1 into a full casting class (wizard or cleric preferrable) should do the trick. You should know your way around combat (not fighter required) and have a source of possible heals.

Although my preferred option would be Rogue into Paladin (you got skills, heals, melee damage and only lack arcane knowledge or spells).

[LudicSavant]

Some notes on soloing 5e adventure modules:

- Full spellcasters are often good candidates. Even low level wizards have a ton going for them in capable hands.
- Have a "combat as war (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?317715-Very-Long-Combat-as-Sport-vs-Combat-as-War-a-Key-Difference-in-D-amp-D-Play-Styles)" mindset. Do not play fair with the enemies. Your ideal situation is one where you have won before initiative is ever rolled.
- Win the information war. Use stealth, divinations, investigative abilities, etc to their full potential.
- Make full use of advantageous terrain. Or create your own terrain.
- If your position is compromised, abandon your position. Teleport or sneak or speed away.
- Make full use of keepaway tactics. Flight (particularly at-will flight from certain races), phantom steed, stealth, divinations, and a decent ranged attack can trivialize a surprising amount of encounters.
- Make full use of your time when you are not under time pressure. Milk familiars for poisons, make healing elixirs (from the new UA) or goodberries with leftover spell slots. Go nova and rest in a Tiny Hut. Use rituals liberally (they're incredibly good).
- Minions in 5e are ridiculous.
- No teammates means more loot for you. Use this loot to arm yourself with the best gear possible, as soon as possible. You might even be able to use it for hirelings and the like. To get an idea just how much loot we're talking, SKT's first level adventure potentially hands you a coupla thousand gp worth of stuff and a potion of heroism for good measure. Basically, a solo adventurer can afford to fill out their spellbook, get early plate, stock up on consumables, and hoard all the magic items they want.


I really don't see any single PC surviving the orc raid in early levels.

Well, for one thing, they orcs are totally screwed if you have at-will flight and a ranged attack longer than 120 feet (which isn't hard to come by). Otherwise, they can't get past the raised drawbridge (and it takes them a whole 10 minutes to figure out the alternate route!), so you can make them try to plink away at you with javelins with 3/4s cover and disadvantage (note: the war cry can cancel this disadvantage out for one turn only) or simply run out, shoot, and get back behind full cover. Or use a spell to cover you. If you actually get hit have your familiar administer Healing Elixirs or something. Oh yeah, and if you were diplomatic with the Zhentarim, they totally help you fight the orcs and it makes it super easy to kill two birds with one stone. As if that weren't enough, the elves can show up to help you, too. You can also sneak off to the keep, which the orcs ignore. Or hide and pick them off one by one. There are many solutions to this encounter for a lone PC.

[ATHATH]

Hm... How about Moon Druid? Just turn into a rat or something and wander through most of the adventure undetected or ignored. You could probably orchestrate some Hitman-style kills on BBEGs or important targets without leaving animal form. If someone discovers you, just turn into a bird and fly away.

Actually, Druids have access to Animal Messenger, right? A snake-tsunami (check my sig) might be a good way to kill important stuff.

[Phoenix042]

I actually have a player in a solo game, and he's going vuman paladin 2 / sorcerer x. He grabbed heavy armor master at 1st level, and now he wrecks faces with his big two-hander (a scythe we treat as a greatsword), and meanwhile he's super tanky vs large groups of low-damage mooks (which is all he's fought so far).

In terms of really strong 1st level starts, you could start as a vuman fighter with heavy armor master, a shield, and the dueling fighting style. You'd have an 18 AC at level 1 and likely 12 - 13 HP, plus second wind, and you take 3 less damage from each attack that actually manages to hit you. Since second wind is a short rest resource, if you can pace your fights and rest whenever you're out of it, you can actually take more damage per day than anyone else by far. You do decent damage (1d8 + 5) right out of the gate, and you're really hard to bring down with physical attacks.

After that, I'm not sure how to keep this character alive for another 20 levels without a really lenient DM that lets you rest whenever.

[8wGremlin]

I've done a couple of solo runs against written adventures, and I have to say that

Winged Tiefling, Arcana Cleric, Urban Bounty Hunter works very well.

The arcane spells I took were Chill touch, Minor Illusion, healing is covered, and AC is handled with dex + medium armour + shield. Hard to start with a 15 in your starting stat, but Observant was useful.

Having three-dimensional spirit guardians was fantastic.

[Lombra]

Maybe a wood elf rogue with expertise stealth and a longbow would be able to bypass most of the too hard encounters, maybe assassin for when you really need to kill something

[XmonkTad]

I don't see much beating out the Moon Druid here. You get an entire creature's worth of temp HP that recharges on a short rest. While your AC is fairly terrible, dipping a level of monk should fix that problem (you keep unarmored defense and use your wis). But this is only if you're actually going to try and fight the encounters. Probably better to pick a rogue or illusionist of some sort and just slip by your problems.

Or play an enchanter/bard and make your own friends.

[Sir cryosin]

It's impossible to do but imo these classes have a shot.
1. Shadow Monk
2. Any mystic
3. Bladesinger
4. Fighter 1/adj wizard 19
5. Ranger beast concave
6. OoA paladin
7. Barbarian
8. Archer fighter
9. Thief Rogue
It's just how you approach the encounters and play it very smart.

[Morcleon]

It's impossible to do but imo these classes have a shot.

Is that a challenge? :smalltongue:

[Cespenar]

I'm just gonna jump on the Moon Druid bandwagon.

I played OotA as one, and there are many opportunities to use NPCs allies in that campaign. So a solo Druid seems manageable if you can keep your allies alive and generally play as a squad leader type of fellow.

Other campaigns I'm less sure, but animal forms with +6-7 stealth bonus and darkvision should go a long way to avoid what you can't win, and take on what you can.

As soon as you hit level 5 it begins to avalanche from there anyway, because of how OP Conjure Animals is. Eight giant badgers or giant bats are almost as good as half a party, and that's just one slot.

[mgshamster]

I think once we add in lots of NPCs to fight for you, you're no longer solo-ing a game as a PC. Sure, you might be the only player, but at that point you're just trading out fellow players for NPCs. And that's something any class could do.

You're not solo-ing the campaign as a single PC as a testament to the power of the class/build. That's what the OP was looking for - which single build is capable of solo-ing a campaign.

[Arenabait]

Maybe a winged tiefling Sorcadin? Start in warlock and go 2 levels in for Eldritch blast, agonizing blast, and repelling blast/eldritch spear (Probably the spear. Get spell sniper at 4th level sorcerer, and the distant spell metamagic and finish the encounter before they could get within 500 feet of you, nevermind getting in the air.) Then go the rest with Sorcerer, probably UA stone sorcerer for a little extra survivability.

[Ruslan]

hrmmm what about lmop?Less deadly than Hoard of the Dragon Queen, for sure, but if you start level 1? I say you just don't have enough hp cushion to survive to level 2.

[Cespenar]

I think once we add in lots of NPCs to fight for you, you're no longer solo-ing a game as a PC. Sure, you might be the only player, but at that point you're just trading out fellow players for NPCs. And that's something any class could do.

You're not solo-ing the campaign as a single PC as a testament to the power of the class/build. That's what the OP was looking for - which single build is capable of solo-ing a campaign.

First I was pointing out the ease of soloing OotA as any class.

Then I was pointing out regardless of the campaign, a Moon Druid might have the edge over other classes.

[LudicSavant]

Notes on races for solo builds:
Aaracockra and Winged Tieflings can trivialize a lot of encounters, as a large variety of classes. Depending on the module they might be able to breeze their way past the first few levels.
Goblins can hide or disengage as a bonus action, without all the trouble of having 2 levels in Rogue. Hiding is a very good thing, since it's a form of defense that can prevent enemies from bringing their superior numbers to bear and allow you to pick your battles. You also get some other minor stuff like Darkvision, Fury of the Small, and generally useful stat boosts.
Variant Humans get a feat, stats exactly where they want them, and an extra skill. But mostly a feat.
Yuan-Ti get poison immunity and animal friendship for snakes (useful for harvesting and using powerful poisons early on, and for standing safely in your own poison clouds later), advantage on saves against magic (good for IP proofing against some of the effects most likely to end a solo run), darkvision, a free Suggestion charge, and caster stat boosts.

[mgshamster]

First I was pointing out the ease of soloing OotA as any class.

But then it's not really a solo any more. You're just trading fellow PCs for NPCs. You're still in a large group. You're not solo.

Edit: For OotA specifically, I'd say that it could still count as solo if the NPCs you had with you were Buppido, Sarith, Shuushar, and Stool. They can provide you information and direction without contributing to combat. And they also provide their own complications. You could also add one more for the sole purpose of being a victim.

[LudicSavant]

(Assume XP gains keep the character at the standard level progression intended for the adventure, and that gold/resources are scaled down for 1 character.)

Your second assumption cannot be done without rewriting the entire module. You'd have to change the gear the monsters use, the specific magic item drops (some of which drive the story), etc etc. And there's simply no system established in 5e through which you would determine such scaling in any case.

The first assumption is simple enough, especially since at least some modules use the milestone system.

[mgshamster]

Your second assumption cannot be done without rewriting the entire module. You'd have to change the gear the monsters use, the specific magic item drops (some of which drive the story), etc etc. And there's simply no system established in 5e through which you would determine such scaling in any case.

The first assumption is simple enough, especially since at least some modules use the milestone system.

You make a valid point. The second one could have a pseudo-solution by implementing the encumbrance rules. There's only so much a single PC can carry. So while the treasure drop isn't heavily altered (just reduce the coin they carry, but not equipment), you can't really take it all (depending on the adventure and location).

[Tanarii]

- Have a "combat as war (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?317715-Very-Long-Combat-as-Sport-vs-Combat-as-War-a-Key-Difference-in-D-amp-D-Play-Styles)" mindset. Do not play fair with the enemies. Your ideal situation is one where you have won before initiative is ever rolled.
- Win the information war. Use stealth, divinations, investigative abilities, etc to their full potential.
- Make full use of advantageous terrain. Or create your own terrain.
- If your position is compromised, abandon your position. Teleport or sneak or speed away.
- Make full use of keepaway tactics. Flight (particularly at-will flight from certain races), phantom steed, stealth, divinations, and a decent ranged attack can trivialize a surprising amount of encounters.
- Make full use of your time when you are not under time pressure. Milk familiars for poisons, make healing elixirs (from the new UA) or goodberries with leftover spell slots. Go nova and rest in a Tiny Hut. Use rituals liberally (they're incredibly good).
&

Well, for one thing, they orcs are totally screwed if you have at-will flight and a ranged attack longer than 120 feet (which isn't hard to come by). Otherwise, they can't get past the raised drawbridge (and it takes them a whole 10 minutes to figure out the alternate route!), so you can make them try to plink away at you with javelins with 3/4s cover and disadvantage (note: the war cry can cancel this disadvantage out for one turn only) or simply run out, shoot, and get back behind full cover. Or use a spell to cover you. If you actually get hit have your familiar administer Healing Elixirs or something. Oh yeah, and if you were diplomatic with the Zhentarim, they totally help you fight the orcs and it makes it super easy to kill two birds with one stone. As if that weren't enough, the elves can show up to help you, too. You can also sneak off to the keep, which the orcs ignore. Or hide and pick them off one by one. There are many solutions to this encounter for a lone PC.
It's worth noting, if you can play Combat as War, so can the enemies. Everything you listed is good for the gander. Combat as War is generally a far MORE dangerous play-style for the PCs, not less dangerous. They have to do everything within their capabilities just to survive. So a CaW mindset on both sides of the aisle, both Player AND DM, will make things almost assuredly a loss for a solo PC. I don't know the module you're commenting on in the second part, but your examples of 'how to' sound like perfect example of Combat-as-War is fine for the Player, but not allowed for the DM.

Edit: I run a CaW multi-session & multi-party campaign where both I and the players get to play Combat-as-War. TPKs occur about once every two weeks, although more commonly with Tier 1 parties than Tier 2. So far in over a year of playing the highest level character just leveled up to 9. Character death is VERY common, and it's because both sides get to play CaW.

[idesofmarch]

Some notes on soloing 5e adventure modules:

- Full spellcasters are often good candidates. Even low level wizards have a ton going for them in capable hands.
- Have a "combat as war (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?317715-Very-Long-Combat-as-Sport-vs-Combat-as-War-a-Key-Difference-in-D-amp-D-Play-Styles)" mindset. Do not play fair with the enemies. Your ideal situation is one where you have won before initiative is ever rolled.
- Win the information war. Use stealth, divinations, investigative abilities, etc to their full potential.
- Make full use of advantageous terrain. Or create your own terrain.
- If your position is compromised, abandon your position. Teleport or sneak or speed away.
- Make full use of keepaway tactics. Flight (particularly at-will flight from certain races), phantom steed, stealth, divinations, and a decent ranged attack can trivialize a surprising amount of encounters.
- Make full use of your time when you are not under time pressure. Milk familiars for poisons, make healing elixirs (from the new UA) or goodberries with leftover spell slots. Go nova and rest in a Tiny Hut. Use rituals liberally (they're incredibly good).
- Minions in 5e are ridiculous.
- No teammates means more loot for you. Use this loot to arm yourself with the best gear possible, as soon as possible. You might even be able to use it for hirelings and the like. To get an idea just how much loot we're talking, SKT's first level adventure potentially hands you a coupla thousand gp worth of stuff and a potion of heroism for good measure. Basically, a solo adventurer can afford to fill out their spellbook, get early plate, stock up on consumables, and hoard all the magic items they want.



Well, for one thing, they orcs are totally screwed if you have at-will flight and a ranged attack longer than 120 feet (which isn't hard to come by). Otherwise, they can't get past the raised drawbridge (and it takes them a whole 10 minutes to figure out the alternate route!), so you can make them try to plink away at you with javelins with 3/4s cover and disadvantage (note: the war cry can cancel this disadvantage out for one turn only) or simply run out, shoot, and get back behind full cover. Or use a spell to cover you. If you actually get hit have your familiar administer Healing Elixirs or something. Oh yeah, and if you were diplomatic with the Zhentarim, they totally help you fight the orcs and it makes it super easy to kill two birds with one stone. As if that weren't enough, the elves can show up to help you, too. You can also sneak off to the keep, which the orcs ignore. Or hide and pick them off one by one. There are many solutions to this encounter for a lone PC.

So many of these tips are variations on "git gud" :smalltongue:, but yes, it seems they all point towards full spellcasters. Which is my reservation against flying warlocks, as they don't scale so well into the higher levels.


Having three-dimensional spirit guardians was fantastic.

This is a really good idea. Even for regular games.


I think once we add in lots of NPCs to fight for you, you're no longer solo-ing a game as a PC. Sure, you might be the only player, but at that point you're just trading out fellow players for NPCs. And that's something any class could do.

You're not solo-ing the campaign as a single PC as a testament to the power of the class/build. That's what the OP was looking for - which single build is capable of solo-ing a campaign.

This. Player creativity is nice, but I'd like the build to carry the player, rather than the player carrying the build. Well, insofar as the player is reasonable and competent.


Then I was pointing out regardless of the campaign, a Moon Druid might have the edge over other classes.

My only concern is the druid's play before summoning is available. Flying druid probably mitigates those early game issues.


Your second assumption cannot be done without rewriting the entire module. You'd have to change the gear the monsters use, the specific magic item drops (some of which drive the story), etc etc. And there's simply no system established in 5e through which you would determine such scaling in any case.

The first assumption is simple enough, especially since at least some modules use the milestone system.

You're right.


You make a valid point. The second one could have a pseudo-solution by implementing the encumbrance rules. There's only so much a single PC can carry. So while the treasure drop isn't heavily altered (just reduce the coin they carry, but not equipment), you can't really take it all (depending on the adventure and location).

I think this is reasonable. Also, the biggest issue for a party of one probably is not having that many actions. Getting extra treasure is hardly a game-breaking boon.


&

It's worth noting, if you can play Combat as War, so can the enemies. Everything you listed is good for the gander. Combat as War is generally a far MORE dangerous play-style for the PCs, not less dangerous. They have to do everything within their capabilities just to survive. So a CaW mindset on both sides of the aisle, both Player AND DM, will make things almost assuredly a loss for a solo PC. I don't know the module you're commenting on in the second part, but your examples of 'how to' sound like perfect example of Combat-as-War is fine for the Player, but not allowed for the DM.

Edit: I run a CaW multi-session & multi-party campaign where both I and the players get to play Combat-as-War. TPKs occur about once every two weeks, although more commonly with Tier 1 parties than Tier 2. So far in over a year of playing the highest level character just leveled up to 9. Character death is VERY common, and it's because both sides get to play CaW.

I find the idea of CaW weird at higher levels. I'm thinking that archmage is CR 12, but they can cast 9th-level spells. Against a standard level 12 party, a CaW archmage should pretty much never lose, no?

[Tanarii]

I find the idea of CaW weird at higher levels. I'm thinking that archmage is CR 12, but they can cast 9th-level spells. Against a standard level 12 party, a CaW archmage should pretty much never lose, no?Yeah, a lot of the things that make CaW fun can start to break down at high levels. Especially if the DM has to start keeping track of an large number of powerful enemies who are both aware of and want to take hostile action against specific PCs ... but the DM doesn't just want to outright kill the PCs in question.

Of course, there's MANY reasons campaigns of any style can break down when characters start reaching higher levels. It's just one of them.

[LudicSavant]

It's worth noting, if you can play Combat as War, so can the enemies.
This is like saying "It's worth noting, if you can improve your tactics, so can the enemies."

It is not futile to improve your tactics just because other people can also improve their tactics.

Having a combat as war mindset does not make the game more dangerous for you. The enemy having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for you. Likewise, you having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for the enemy.

[Tanarii]

This is like saying "It's worth noting, if you can improve your tactics, so can the enemies."

It is not futile to improve your tactics just because other people can also improve their tactics.

Having a combat as war mindset does not make the game more dangerous for you. The enemy having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for you. Likewise, you having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for the enemy.True. But you assumed the enemy will not have a combat-as-war mindset, and the player will. Both sides being equal, a combat-as-war game is more dangerous for a player PC. Players must improve their tactics just to keep their PCs alive.

So 'improve your tactics' is all very well to say, but moving to a combat-as-war style game instead of a combat-as-sport one will overall make it much harder for a player to solo a game.

[Ruslan]

Having a combat as war mindset does not make the game more dangerous for you. The enemy having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for you. Likewise, you having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for the enemy.
Yes, but the game is not played in vacuum. "You" and "the enemy" can never be completely detached, because that's two people sitting at a table next to each other, interacting with each other.

The boolean variables Player_Has_CaW_Mindset and Enemy_Has_CaW_Mindset are not independent.


It is not futile to improve your tactics just because other people can also improve their tactics.
In vacuum, it's not futile. In a game with people interacting and feeding off of each other, it could very well be futile.

[LudicSavant]

True. But you assumed the enemy will not have a combat-as-war mindset, and the player will. I did no such thing. Whether the enemy has a combat-as-war mindset or not, you will perform better against them with a combat-as-war mindset. Therefore I advise that players attempting to succeed have a combat-as-war mindset.

[Ruslan]

I did no such thing. Whether the enemy has a combat-as-war mindset or not, you will perform better against them with a combat-as-war mindset. Therefore I advise that players attempting to succeed have a combat-as-war mindset.
You are assuming the enemy's mindset is set in stone and not dependent on your decision. But what if the DM wanted to play a nice cosy CaS game, and only after seeing the PC's CaW tactics, switched to CaW himself as well? Screwed ourselves quite nicely there, did we not?

[Maxilian]

It's impossible to do but imo these classes have a shot.
1. Shadow Monk
2. Any mystic
3. Bladesinger
4. Fighter 1/adj wizard 19
5. Ranger beast concave
6. OoA paladin
7. Barbarian
8. Archer fighter
9. Thief Rogue
It's just how you approach the encounters and play it very smart.

I agree, mainly with Mystic and Monk, i would also add Druid (Land Druid mainly, and a Moon Druid that understand that Wildshape is not everything).

But... in most cases, it depends the lvl they start with.

[LudicSavant]

It is not futile to improve your tactics just because other people can also improve their tactics.
In vacuum, it's not futile. In a game with people interacting and feeding off of each other, it could very well be futile.

Alright. Good luck improving your performance by not improving your tactics. Let me know how that goes. :smalltongue:

[Ruslan]

For the sake of making it an actual debate and not an exercise in snark, can you please point at the exact place in my post where I said I intend to never improve my tactics?

[Tanarii]

I did no such thing. Whether the enemy has a combat-as-war mindset or not, you will perform better against them with a combat-as-war mindset. Therefore I advise that players attempting to succeed have a combat-as-war mindset.
If the DM and player move their mindset in tandem towards CaW, then the overall odds of survival goes down for the PCs. Not up. So your advice must assume that the enemy/DM tactical mindset is fixed in offering such advice.

Edit: I should probably add that I don't think "improve your tactics" is ever bad advice. Just to be clear. :smallwink:

[The Shadowdove]

Some printed adventures assume it's a diverse party with access to a variety of abilities, skills, languages,etc.

Most could probably be solo completed by one class or another.

However, some require very specific skills or abilities to overcome a particular obstacle or go access a magically locked/hidden door.

Some luck or metagaming may have to take place to tackle those.

[LudicSavant]

Edit: I should probably add that I don't think "improve your tactics" is ever bad advice. Just to be clear. :smallwink:

Okay. Well then let me be clear what it means when I say to have a "CaW mindset" as opposed to a "CaS mindset." It simply means to not impose any arbitrary limits on your creativity or decisionmaking. Even the bits you are trying to argue about psychology would file under "mind games." Basically, removing these limits from your mindset is a direct increase to your available tactical options. To suggest that this could be a bad thing for your chances just seems silly to me. You do not improve your ability to solve problems by confining your problem-solving reasoning to a smaller box.

[Tanarii]

Okay. Well then let me be clear what it means when I say to have a "CaW mindset" as opposed to a "CaS mindset." It simply means to not impose any arbitrary limits on your creativity or decisionmaking. Even the bits you are trying to argue about psychology would file under "mind games." Basically, removing these limits from your mindset is a direct increase to your available tactical options. To suggest that this could be a bad thing for your chances just seems silly to me. You do not improve your ability to solve problems by confining your problem-solving reasoning to a smaller box.
Be that as it may, my primary point was your analysis that soloing a specific module was not only possible, but even actually rather easy, seemed to hinge on the enemy NOT being allowed to use basic CaW tactical responses. Whereas the DM moving to CaW tactics on the part of the enemy would almost certainly ensure a solo-adventurer's (eventual) defeat, unless they were significantly more powerful than the enemy, as opposed to the other way around. Even if she was (quite intelligently) using the rather effective tactics of ambushing & skirmishing, those are more of a necessity when the enemy is allowed to respond appropriately. Instead of being artificially constrained to only operate in specific areas (encounter area), or not allowed to prepare counter-ambushes, or false-flags, or easy-meat lures. At least, that's the impression I got, which is why I chimed in.

[LudicSavant]

Be that as it may, my primary point was your analysis that soloing a specific module was not only possible, but even actually rather easy

I said it was possible (and it is, people here have already done it). I never said it was easy.


At least, that's the impression I got, which is why I chimed in.
Your impression is inaccurate.


I don't know the module you're commenting on in the second part, but your examples of 'how to' sound like perfect example of Combat-as-War is fine for the Player, but not allowed for the DM. Maybe you should make sure you know the module before making assumptions. The module specifically describes the behavior of the orcs in various situations. In fact, it describes the tactical behavior of a lot of the encounters, often in some detail, with various contingencies and everything.

[Tanarii]

Maybe you should make sure you know the module before making assumptions. The module specifically describes the behavior of the orcs in various situations. In fact, it describes the tactical behavior of a lot of the encounters, often in some detail, with various contingencies and everything.Ah. So you ARE assuming a fixed tactical behavior for the enemies, but you are doing it because the module specifies the behavior in question.

[busterswd]

Ah. So you ARE assuming a fixed tactical behavior for the enemies, but you are doing it because the module specifies the behavior in question.

To be fair, his tactics involve heavily metagaming the module and choosing the exact behavior that will ensure survival given the set parameters. If the drawbridge is lowered, for example, you've got to fight all the orcs at the same time. Befriending the Zhents involves betraying the villagers, which is not an obvious step to take.

The initial village has several indoor ambushes with goblins at character level 1.

Also following the orc ambush, you got to take on two ogres and several goblins at the same time in a dark cave with a 30 foot ceiling at level 3. Flying just doesn't translate as well when you're fighting several enemies with ranged attacks in the dark.

In other words, Storm Kings is a module that is particularly punishing to trying to cheese encounters with flight at a time when players are at their most vulnerable.

Also, CaW in Strahd is just about guaranteed to get you stomped into a red paste. You are not going to out-tactic Strahd.

[LudicSavant]

To be fair I feel that there is very little that is fair about your statements here. There is, however, quite a bit that I feel is misleading.


If the drawbridge is lowered, for example, you've got to fight all the orcs at the same time.
This is inaccurate. In fact the book specifically emphasizes that you do not have to fight all the orcs at the same time.

Once the orcs enter the village, they fight to the death and don't take prisoners. Because the orcs don't know what they're up against, characters can try to hide in the village and pick off a few orcs at a time. They can also retreat to the keep, which the orcs ignore.


- The Zhentarim will raise it for you if you don't actively stop them from doing so.
- The reason the Zhentarim raise it is the same completely reasonable in character reason that I had already done it myself when I played: to prevent any more monstrous looters from flowing in and out of the village and help to protect it. Maybe you think the NPCs are "heavily metagaming" too though. :smallconfused:
- The orcs are not exactly inconspicuous on their hasty, elf-fleeing approach through an open field, and you should have an eye in the sky.


Befriending the Zhents involves betraying the villagers
This too presents an inaccurate picture. You do not have to take any action against the villagers to have the Zhents around during the orc fight. You just have to not murderhobo the Zhents the instant you meet them. That's it.

They will leave you alone (and help you fight the orcs) unless you actively attack them for standing around in a deserted village. You can deal with them on your own terms, whenever you like.

Moreover, it seems quite unfair indeed to claim that I "picked the exact scenario that ensured survival" and use the Zhents as an example. My post clearly presents multiple scenarios, with words like "if" and "otherwise" and so forth, addressing multiple possibilities that can happen and how to proceed with them. "Oh yeah, and if you were diplomatic with the Zhentarim..." is listed after I've already provided multiple strategies that can win without them present.


The initial village has several indoor ambushes with goblins at character level 1. That's why you don't solve all those encounters with flying, and why I never suggested doing so.

A good solo build is not a one trick pony. See my earlier post: You want to maximize the number of effective tools in your toolkit, of which flying would be only one. If I was playing a flying wizard, for example, I'd enter the village houses making use of tools like familiar scouting (I prefer an bat for blindsight, which will totally just find all the goblins from outside the houses and makes surprising you basically impossible), shape water tricks, minor illusion, unseen servant (the ritual), Stealth (+4-+6 base bonus, +9-+11 if sticking to lightly obscured areas), unexpected entrances to buildings (if I can fly, I go through upper story windows and such), creeping behind cover by default, taking the dodge action while breaching, and a decent AC (15-17. For perspective, a level 1 paladin will generally have 16-18).

[busterswd]

I feel that there is very little that is fair about your statements here. There is, however, quite a bit that I feel is misleading.


This is inaccurate. In fact the book specifically emphasizes that you do not have to fight all the orcs at the same time.

Once the orcs enter the village, they fight to the death and don't take prisoners. Because the orcs don't know what they're up against, characters can try to hide in the village and pick off a few orcs at a time. They can also retreat to the keep, which the orcs ignore.

You omitted the part where the book specifically notes they enter all at the same time, and there's *20* of them. Even fighting "a few at a time" is going to be a fight of 3 or 4 orcs, at level 1, after you've cleared out a village of goblins, stealth or not. You're either hiding or flying, as well, which means you're likely to attract the attention of a LOT of orcs in the air, if you choose to fly.

If the drawbridge is shut, even fighting one at a time, the orcs have 15 HP and can huck Javelins 120 feet with disadvantage. And again, you're fighting 20 of them. Even 1 on 1, you're eventually going to take damage.





- The Zhentarim will raise it for you if you don't actively stop them from doing so.
- The reason the Zhentarim raise it is the same completely reasonable in character reason that I had already done it myself when I played: to prevent any more monstrous looters from flowing in and out of the village and help to protect it. Maybe you think the NPCs are "heavily metagaming" too though. :smallconfused:
- The orcs are not exactly inconspicuous on their hasty, elf-fleeing approach through an open field, and you should have an eye in the sky.


This too presents an inaccurate picture. You do not have to take any action against the villagers to have the Zhents around during the orc fight. You just have to not murderhobo the Zhents the instant you meet them. That's it.

They will leave you alone (and help you fight the orcs) unless you actively attack them for standing around in a deserted village. You can deal with them on your own terms, whenever you like.

Nope, not true. The book specifically predicates their help upon you resolving their "quest" of securing the entire village and notes they will not put themselves in harm's way.


"So what do you use to solve them?"]A good solo build is not a one trick pony. See my earlier post: You want to maximize the number of effective tools in your toolkit, of which flying would be only one. If I was playing a flying wizard, for example, I'd enter the village houses making use of tools like familiar scouting (I prefer an owl for blindsight, which will totally just find all the goblins from outside the houses and makes surprising you basically impossible), shape water tricks, minor illusion, unseen servant (the ritual), Stealth (+4-+6 base bonus, +9-+11 if sticking to lightly obscured areas), unexpected entrances to buildings (if I can fly, I go through upper story windows and such), creeping behind cover by default, taking the dodge action while breaching, and a decent AC (15-17. For perspective, a level 1 paladin will generally have 16-18).

You can avoid some fights with smart tactics, but you are not going to be able to solve all of them without a great deal of luck. You are acting like an owl will automatically spot any and all potential threats to you, and even if that were the case, all that means is you get a surprise round, which amounts to a free round and maybe disadvantage. You still have a Wizard's ~10 HP to eliminate about a dozen goblins *with shortbows*. Two decent shots and you're done. And then the 20 Orcs right after. Even with Elvish reinforcements, you can realistically expect to fight at least 5 of them.

ESPECIALLY when you get to the caves, no amount of scouting is going to let you outstealth creatures with Darkvision if you chose Aarakocra. There's a certain amount of brute force you need to get through the prologue, and you don't have it as a single wizard.

And brute force aside, you're describing a character that is so incredibly paranoid of a raided, empty village that he stealths EVERYWHERE, doesn't go anywhere without his owl seeing things in advance, and yet sees fit to socially interact with a riding party of Zhentarim that could have easily contributed to the village's state?

[LudicSavant]

If the drawbridge is shut, even fighting one at a time, the orcs have 15 HP and can huck Javelins 120 feet with disadvantage. And again, you're fighting 20 of them. Even 1 on 1, you're eventually going to take damage. Your attack range is 320, and they can't fly, and they're stuck in a wide open area. How do you suggest that they are doing this "eventual" damage?


all that means is you get a surprise round, which amounts to a free round and maybe disadvantage. You still have a Wizard's ~10 HP to eliminate about a dozen goblins *with shortbows*. And then the 20 Orcs right after. Oh, so now there's 12 goblins together right after just one surprise round, and then 20 orcs right after. Huh. That doesn't sound like the order of events from Storm King's Thunder.

Anyways the number of orcs doesn't matter, they can't damage you. The goblins you can take out 1-2 at a time, and rest if you need to at the keep or wherever. And you can get a rest before the orcs, not that you actually need it.


And brute force aside, you're describing a character that is so incredibly paranoid of a raided, empty village that he stealths Empty village? You mean the one where right when I arrived, I saw worgs in the middle of the square devouring a carcass and heard a massive racket of goblins ringing a bell endlessly, and where I can sense goblins hiding in the houses? I guess one would just have to be paranoid to think there were any monsters in such a place and be stealthy or scout anything.


and yet sees fit to socially interact with a riding party of Zhentarim that could have easily contributed to the village's state?
Ah yes, the village's state where it's been crushed by a great many 500 pound boulders, while everyone has been telling me about giants wrecking up everything. Clearly the human mercenary over there did it.

Yeah look... this is getting silly. I am not sure what you think you're going to accomplish here, but I get the feeling that your interest here is not in learning how to solo from someone with experience.

[busterswd]

You're arguing against a condition I gave you by default, which is perfect intel, and that's by no means a given. You're still fighting goblins, many of whom are indoors, and all of whom are capable of fighting back, even assuming you roll perfectly on your stealth rolls and get a surprise round on every encounter. All stealth and skill checks gives you is one free shot, after which you still have to fight them on more or less even terms. Sample combat:

2 goblins are dancing. You get the jump on them. You fire your light crossbow at them. Their AC is 15. With +5 to hit, you need to roll a 10 or higher (55%) to hit one. 4 or higher kills, meaning you have a 5/8 chance of killing one. Let's assume the best case scenario and say you manage to do so (34.4% chance).

Surprise round over. Goblin gets a shot or swing at you. Let's assume you have mage armor running, so your AC is 16. Goblin has a 50% chance to hit you (11 or higher). Goblin deals 5 damage on average. You have two options at this point: you can drop your crossbow as a free action and pull out your casting focus, or you can try to reload. Let's assume you drop your crossbow and cast a firebolt: 55% chance to hit, 4/10 chance to kill. 22% chance to kill the second goblin. If you don't kill the goblin first round, odds are good that you'll take damage either the first or second round (there's also a chance he'll miss twice, or hit twice, killing you).

Basically, even with stealth, you have a 7% chance to end combat in two rounds, with an ideal start to combat. If you don't kill a goblin outright the first round, you've got two goblins now firing at you. One successful hit will take off half your HP on average. You're basically down in two hits. If the LIKELY event happens (ie: the 2/3 chance that you don't down a goblin in one round), chances are better than even you're going to take a hit or two.

Now repeat this. There are several encounters with two goblins, as well as encounters where goblins are indoors (and no, blindsight doesn't let you see through walls or through cover, meaning your owl still has to search inside; you're thinking of tremorsense). Also, an Owl doesn't have blindsight, even if you deleted that part of your post.

There is a REALLY good chance you will not survive killing off every goblin, just from a pure numbers perspective.

And you still haven't listed how you're going to beat the really deadly part of this: how you're going to beat 2 ogres and several goblins in the dark in an environment that prevents you from cheesing them with a light crossbow and flight, at level 3, with a race that doesn't have darkvision. But even if you picked Darkvision as a spell (for the same reason you knew the one safe place in town), you've got a limited amount of HP against opponents that are dealing 1/4-1/3 of your HP with every successful hit, all at once, whereas you've got to take down 59 HP to down *one* of the two ogres.

I mean, this is assuming that you're metagaming and know the locations of everything perfectly and what to expect ahead of time, meaning:

-you fly out of range of Orc Javelins right before they arrive instead of hiding, because you know exactly what their range is and who you're going to fight (and in spite of you trying to claim you somehow got 3/4 cover, which would mean you're NOT flying)

-you know exactly where to go to find a safe spot in town

-you know that a group of riders approaching a raided town who clearly know their destination and somebody in town aren't dangerous

-that goblins from the same tribe wont' yell if they're under attack or work together because the module lists what they're doing when you arrive

-that things will ignore you casting 20 minute rituals in spite of your incredible +5 stealth checks (+9, really because there's dim light everywhere you need it)

-that they won't just shoot your owl out of boredom

-that you pass all of your dozens of stealth checks +5 is basically Pass without Trace, right?

But sure, you can preemptively declare that you've successfully soloed this if it makes you feel better.

[LudicSavant]

2 goblins are dancing. You get the jump on them. You fire your light crossbow at them. Their AC is 15. With +5 to hit, you need to roll a 10 or higher (55%) to hit one. 4 or higher kills, meaning you have a 5/8 chance of killing one. Let's assume the best case scenario and say you manage to do so (34.4% chance)

Surprise round over. Goblin gets a shot or swing at you. Let's assume you have mage armor running, so your AC is 16. Goblin has a 50% chance to hit you (11 or higher). Goblin deals 5 damage on average. You have two options at this point: you can drop your crossbow as a free action and pull out your casting focus, or you can try to reload. Let's assume you drop your crossbow and cast a firebolt: 55% chance to hit, 4/10 chance to kill. 22% chance to kill the second goblin. If you don't kill the goblin first round, odds are good that you'll take damage either the first or second round (there's also a chance he'll miss twice, or hit twice, killing you).. Except that is absolutely not a strategy I have suggested for soloing with a wizard. The deal is that you're playing solo and pulling out all the cheesy and clever stops to stand a chance of doing the job of 4 men. First of all, you don't make a straight attack roll, you use your familiar's Help action to get Advantage (or get it from attacking while unseen while your familiar does something else). You stock up on poisons milked from a variant familiar before the adventure starts, then resummon a better scout (yes, it's cheesy, but then what do you expect from a solo build, you have to pull out all the stops). You roll for stats because it's better on average than PB. You move up behind cover, preferably 3/4s. You can potentially create the cover yourself with Shape Water. You carry knickknacks like ball bearings.

You could potentially get a 20 dex at level 1 with a Feral Winged Tiefling, and have 18 AC with mage armor. Then 23 AC with cover. And you attack with a +7 to hit with advantage, which means you hit the goblin with an 87.75% chance, and kill them even if you roll 1s for damage, because your attack does 1d8+5+3d4. If there was a second goblin, you then ideally move into a position where they can't get a shot on you at all (taking advantage of angles and terrain), and then if they try to dash after you you can take a potshot at them (if they instead retreat, you can fade away and restart the combat at your leisure, tracking position via bat). But maybe you get super unlucky and miss your 87.75% shot, and then super unlucky again and they crit you and you can't even use Shield or anything, so... your familiar administers a Healing Elixir that you made yesterday, and then you end him.

If you're lucky, you can go through a bunch of goblins this way without resting (especially since you can often get one at a time, rather than 2), but if you need to you can retreat and long rest at someplace like the keep with the guards.

But that's not even all you can do. You can throw in illusions. You can set fires. You can use ball bearings. Make an ice slick or a bed of spikes. There are so many things you should be using and you should be layering all of them together.

But somehow when I said that you should be doing this wide variety of things, you apparently heard "make an autoattack while standing out in the open and hope for the best."

[busterswd]

{{scrubbed}}

[LudicSavant]

Quoting this before you can edit it. You don't even know the system rules you're trying to cite ... why you think it is possible to have a higher than +3 modifier to your dex at level 1.


You generate your character's six ability scores randomly. Roll four 6-sided dice and record the total of the highest three dice on a piece of scratch paper. Do this five more times, so that you have six numbers.

When generating stats in this way, you can get an 18 (+4 modifier). With a +2 from your race, you get a +5.

As for owls you're actually right, I actually meant bats and don't know how I mixed that up. MM pg 318, bats get blindsight 60 feet.

[busterswd]

When generating stats in this way, you can get an 18 (+4 modifier). With a +2 from your race, you get a +5.

As for owls, I actually meant bats and don't know how I mixed that up. MM pg 318, bats get blindsight 60 feet.

How are you dealing with the cave ambush?

[LudicSavant]

How are you dealing with the cave ambush?

One thing at a time. Can you at least concede that you were wrong to say I "don't know the system I cite" when claiming that I couldn't get a stat above +3 at level 1?

[busterswd]

{{scrubbed}}

[LudicSavant]

You've already demonstrated you're using as many variant rules as possible So now it's not okay for me to discuss the efficacy of variant rules?


I mean, you TRIED to argue (before you deleted it) that Blindsense lets you see into houses from the outside. There's no technicality to justify that.

I didn't actually delete my posts saying that blindsight could let you see into houses from outside, they're still there and I don't know why you would claim otherwise. And there is nothing in the RAW to indicate that line of sight blockers block blindsight (which does not rely on sight), as far as I know. It just says that you can perceive things out to a range, without using sight.

And you keep saying blindsense. The game term is blindsight.

Now... I am going to go get some sleep. It is 2am and I have tried to be patient and answer all your questions... probably later than I should have (judging by me somehow mixing up one flying rodent for another). I am sorry that the idea of me having rolled for stats (something you apparently thought was impossible, and that you could never get above a 16 at character creation), used variant rules, and so forth seems be so awful to you, I guess. My intention was to present an example of a character using absolutely everything possible at their disposal, because there were persons saying that it was impossible (which would mean that no set of 5e rules would work). That would suggest to me that anything is on the table.

[mgshamster]

Well, I guess that proves it.

There's no single class/build that can solo a published adventure as a testament to the power of the class/build, as requested by the OP.

In order to solo the adventure, you need:
Lots of variant rules in your favor
Lucky with High stats; no point buy
Pre-knowledge of the Adventurer for perfect spell choice and in-game positioning and tactics
A DM that plays the adventure *exactly* as written and where DM leeway is given plays the enemy dumb (or at least CaS).
Each encounter enemies won't alert other groups of enemies; they won't team up against you or use tactics against you.
Play the PC very intelligently (or at least CaW)
Plenty of downtime before and during the Adventurer so you can stack up on the perfect equipment for the next encounter (you should know what you need because you're reading the book).
Plenty of downtime in the middle of the adventuring day where no enemy changes their position/tactics/information; includes getting long rests as needed.
A race with level 1 flight
A full Spellcaster
Ritual casting with a familiar; cast often to change out familiar as needed - don't worry, the enemy will wait.


Of course, at this point we're no longer playing a class so powerful that it can solo an adventure. We're playing a variant rule game specifically designed to allow a PC to solo an adventure, combined with a super nice DM. Once we're at this point, the class doesn't really matter anymore.

Heck, I can run any of the adventures and make it so a single player can play and succeed. I bet I could even do it with a Monk of the Four Elements, wildly considered the weakest class in the game. But that's not a testament to the power of a given class or build, which is what the OP wanted.

Edit: This whole thing reminds me of a guy I met a year or so back, who claimed that his sorcadin build was the most powerful build he's ever played. As testament to the power of the build, he listed off a bunch of monsters he has killed. The one that always stuck out in my memory was 500 kuo-toa in one go. At level 4! Based on his list, I knew he was talking about Out of the Abyss.

Days later, he was telling a story of out of the abyss, where his party had snuck in a bunch of barrels of oil into a kuo-toa village and then lit it on fire, making a massive explosion and killed all 500 of the kuo-toa there! What a cool story! And it is a cool story.

But what it isn't is a testament to how powerful his sorcadin build was, because his actions were class/build independent.

[Cespenar]

The fact that you generally use tactics and shenanigans to solo a campaign doesn't mean that the class choice is unimportant. Maybe 30% of those shenanigans is only applicable to a stealthy character, another 30% to a diplomatic character, and 40% to a spellcaster.

If you can't solo the campaign with a dumb armored fighter, but can solo with a shenanigany wizard, it attests to the class power of the wizard.

Also, to everyone advocating not "escalating" combat tactics, a proper DM should only play the intelligent NPCs intelligently. Depending on the campaign, you still can be at an advantage on escalating the combat seriousness. But admittedly if your main enemies are humanoids, dragons, spellcasters, etc. you're probably screwed, yeah.

[LudicSavant]

In order to solo the adventure, you need
I disagree that you need all of those things on that list. Especially the ones that were said by the guy saying things like "you must not know the system you're playing, because rolling higher than a 15 is impossible" (in reality, more likely than not (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/48285/is-it-better-to-take-the-array-and-be-joe-average-or-to-roll-for-the-odds-of-ge)).


Lots of variant rules in your favor
Removing access to the variant familiars rule means you can get a flying snake and a bat, but you can still get a poisonous snake and a bat. A poisonous snake will give you access to a 2d4 poison, as opposed to a flying snake's 3d4.

Besides variant familiars, I think the only other variant I referenced was taking the winged tiefling. Doesn't seem like lots to me, but YMMV I guess.


Lucky with High stats; no point buy Speaking of variant rules, rolling for stats is the norm, point buy is the variant. And rolling for stats is on average better. (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/48285/is-it-better-to-take-the-array-and-be-joe-average-or-to-roll-for-the-odds-of-ge) It is more likely for you to be able to get an 18 in Dex than for you to not be able to do so. And about 1 in 10 characters will be able to get a 20 at level 1.


Play the PC very intelligently Sure.


Plenty of downtime in the middle of the adventuring day where no enemy changes their position/tactics/information
No idea where you're getting this one from. I assume the exact opposite to be the case (enemies change their position/tactics/information over time). I even gave examples of this.


Pre-knowledge of the Adventurer for perfect spell choice and in-game positioning and tactics No idea where you're getting this one from either. What are these "perfect spell choices/positioning/tactics" that were supposedly picked based on "foreknowledge of the adventure?" All of my mentioned spell picks were pretty general stuff that I almost always take (like "Mage Armor" and "Shield").


Ritual casting with a familiar; cast often to change out familiar as needed - don't worry, the enemy will wait. I suggested changing out the familiar once. It takes 10 minutes. Once. What's with the exaggeration?

________________

Yes, soloing is hard. Yes, it requires you to take advantage of whatever you have at your disposal to stand the best possible chance, and that chance is not 100%. Yes, you might not always win. But it is not impossible.

[Tanarii]

Also, to everyone advocating not "escalating" combat tactics, a proper DM should only play the intelligent NPCs intelligently. Depending on the campaign, you still can be at an advantage on escalating the combat seriousness. But admittedly if your main enemies are humanoids, dragons, spellcasters, etc. you're probably screwed, yeah.Should a proper Player only play intelligent PCs intelligently, tactically speaking?

[Cespenar]

Should a proper Player only play intelligent PCs intelligently, tactically speaking?

Yes, though I'm very aware of the temptations of not doing so.

[jas61292]

Pre-knowledge of the Adventurer for perfect spell choice and in-game positioning and tactics.

A DM that plays the adventure *exactly* as written and where DM leeway is given plays the enemy dumb (or at least CaS).

While I don't 100% agree with your other points, I think these are correct. If you don't know exactly what you are gong to be facing, you will, sooner or later, end up in a combat you cannot win. That's true of every adventure because they are designed for more people, and so you will be overwhelmed. You might be able to paranoid your way pretty far, but eventually, unless you metagame and have your character play around enemies and traps they should not know of, you will eventually die. I don't think there is any other reasonable outcome, regardless of class.

[mgshamster]

For those questioning where I got all my info:

Lots of variant rules in your favor


You stock up on poisons milked from a variant familiar before the adventure starts.


make healing elixirs (from the new UA)


So now it's not okay for me to discuss the efficacy of variant rules?

Lucky with High stats; no point buy


When generating stats in this [rolling] way, you can get an 18 (+4 modifier). With a +2 from your race, you get a +5.

Pre-knowledge of the Adventurer for perfect spell choice and in-game positioning and tactics


orcs are totally screwed if you have at-will flight and a ranged attack longer than 120 feet

PC wouldn't know they're limited to those exact weapons.


and it takes them a whole 10 minutes to figure out the alternate route!

PC wouldn't know that.


diplomatic with the Zhentarim, they totally help you fight the orcs

PC wouldn't know that. And I note that it was not suggested to be diplomatic with the Keep guards, probably because the book doesn't say they'll help with the fight.


As if that weren't enough, the elves can show up to help you, too

PC wouldn't know that.


You can also sneak off to the keep, which the orcs ignore.

PC wouldn't know that.

A DM that plays the adventure *exactly* as written and where DM leeway is given plays the enemy dumb (or at least CaS).

See above examples on knowing the adventure beforehand. Plus:


Having a combat as war mindset does not make the game more dangerous for you. The enemy having a combat as war mindset makes the game more dangerous for you.


The module specifically describes the behavior of the orcs in various situations. In fact, it describes the tactical behavior of a lot of the encounters, often in some detail, with various contingencies and everything.

Module must be played as written, with no deviation. And based on Tanarii's analysis, if the enemy gets CaW, the PC will die. Practically guarunteed. And since a distinction is specifically made between a PC CaW and an NPC CaW in the first quote, then one must conclude that the enemy needs to be CaS or at least not deviate from the specific tactics described in the book.

Each encounter enemies won't alert other groups of enemies; they won't team up against you or use tactics against you.


Oh, so now there's 12 goblins together right after just one surprise round, and then 20 orcs right after. Huh. That doesn't sound like the order of events from Storm King's Thunder.


The goblins you can take out 1-2 at a time, and rest if you need to at the keep or wherever.

Play the PC very intelligently (or at least CaW)


Have a "combat as war" mindset. Do not play fair with the enemies. Your ideal situation is one where you have won before initiative is ever rolled.

Plenty of downtime before and during the Adventurer so you can stack up on the perfect equipment for the next encounter (you should know what you need because you're reading the book).


You stock up on poisons milked from a variant familiar before the adventure starts.

Plenty of downtime in the middle of the adventuring day where no enemy changes their position/tactics/information; includes getting long rests as needed.


But that's not even all you can do. You can throw in illusions. You can set fires. You can use ball bearings. Make an ice slick or a bed of spikes. There are so many things you should be using and you should be layering all of them together.

Assumes PC has the time to layer all that, and then they can run off and long rest, according to this:


you can go through a bunch of goblins this way without resting (especially since you can often get one at a time, rather than 2), but if you need to you can retreat and long rest at someplace like the keep with the guards.


The goblins you can take out 1-2 at a time, and rest if you need to at the keep or wherever.

And that's a safe place, because the enemy ignores it, according to the book, which the PC also wouldn't know.

A race with level 1 flight


Flight (particularly at-will flight from certain races),

A full Spellcaster


Full spellcasters are often good candidates. Even low level wizards have a ton going for them in capable hands.

Ritual casting with a familiar; cast often to change out familiar as needed - don't worry, the enemy will wait.


Use rituals liberally (they're incredibly good).


familiar scouting (I prefer an bat for blindsight, which will totally just find all the goblins from outside the houses and makes surprising you basically impossible)


You stock up on poisons milked from a variant familiar


your familiar administers a Healing Elixir that you made

We do know that rituals only take ten minutes, but the enemy will wait for the PC. After all, the PC waited for the orcs when they took ten minutes to find an alternate route. Right?

Or is the PC playing tactically against the orcs while expecting the enemy to not play tactically while the PC takes ten minutes to cast a ritual?

Oh! And we can add another:

Have minions, but don't give them any gear.


-Minions in 5e are ridiculous.
- No teammates means more loot for you.



I agree that a solo PC would have a chance of completing an adventure if those steps are taken. It does require two people to agree to the rules, or one person playing both the DM and the PC.

Metagame for the win.

[LudicSavant]

We do know that rituals only take ten minutes, but the enemy will wait for the PC. After all, the PC waited for the orcs when they took ten minutes to find an alternate route. Right? That's a helluva false equivalence there. The orcs are taking ten minutes while laying siege to your village in plain sight. You take ten minutes to use a ritual when you're out of combat, in a safe location.


Module must be played as written, with no deviation. The quote you responded to does not claim that the module must be played as written with no deviation in order for a player to solo. It just describes what the module said. Again, a helluva false equivalence there.


PC wouldn't know that. Nor was the PC's choice of action reliant on knowing that.


Have minions, but don't give them any gear.

So if I say "you aren't sharing loot with other PCs" that means "you can't give your minions any gear"? How does that follow?

It's like you are trying really hard to read my statements in the most silly way possible. Your interpretations of my statements in no way reflect what I actually think.


In order to solo the adventure, you need:


When generating stats in this [rolling] way, you can get an 18 (+4 modifier). With a +2 from your race, you get a +5.

My position is not "you need to have this entire list of things, without any of these specific things, you can't solo."

It's "you can do this, this helps, this is one of many factors that can further increase your chances."

This goes for pretty much every quote from me you posted.

Thus pretty much your entire list is not actually addressing my position.

I'm sorry, but I don't have time for this sort of thing anymore. I cannot have a conversation with you if you're going to turn something like "Use rituals liberally (they're incredibly good)." into "enemies will freeze and wait for you to cast all the rituals you want, and this behavior is required for anyone to successfully solo!"

[Citan]

Well, I'm sorry to tell you LudicSavant, from the whole thread I read, it seems mgshamster did in fact a quite efficient retranscription of your "demonstration".

He even went as far as pinpointing each point.
In other words, you yourself demonstrated that your point was void unless the DM was willing to be an accomplice.

And as soon as DM is ready to adapt an adventure to give a solo player a decent chance to win, well, your class don't really matter anyways, because the DM will give you the options you need to win over obstacles, even if those are quite different from what was planned in the book.

[LudicSavant]

In other words, you yourself demonstrated that your point was void unless the DM was willing to be an accomplice. Which point are you even talking about? Which statement of mine is voided?