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Nebuul
2017-04-08, 02:18 AM
I recently started building a warlock character, and I did a significant amount of research. I found a lot of good information on the net. But a lot of misinformation is floating out there as well. So I thought I would post a "rules" guide to help out with non-strategy questions people have. So this guide won't have any "you should do this" information. Instead, it has "this is how it works" guide to help you figure out rules questions.

I. Qualifying for Prestige Classes
The primary information in this section is from The Complete Arcane (CA) in two sections. First on page 18 where it talks about warlocks and prestige classes specifically, and then on pages 71-72 where it talks about how spell-like abilities can be used for caster level and spell requirements.

Here's what you can pull out of those sections:


A warlock can qualify for: "caster level 3"
A warlock can qualify for: "able to cast invisibility" -- An invocation that emulates a spell can be counted as the spell for a specific spell requirement (CA p.72). The example given is that the warlock "darkness" invocation. If a prestige class required you to be able to cast "darkness" as a prerequisite, then you can take the prestige class as long as you know the darkness invocation. There is a spoiler-hidden chart at the bottom of this post that lists spell-like invocations and some pertinent information about them.
Further clarification on casting a specific spell: A warlock invocation that mimics a spell means the warlock is treated as being able to cast that specific spell, which includes all aspects of the spell such as schools and descriptors (e.g. illusion (shadow). Alignment descriptors also apply.
A warlock can qualify for: "able to cast three 4th-level spells"
A warlock cannot qualify for: "able to cast 4th-level spells" (no specific number of spells listed) because this implies a broad understanding of the spell level vs individual spells, which a warlock cannot have, per the rules on CA p.72.
If taking levels of a prestige class, a warlock can benefit from "+1 level of existing spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" -- applying that level to the warlock class grants additional eldritch blast damage, invocations known, and level of invocations allowed as though you had leveled warlock. It does not grant any other level-dependent abilities of the warlock class.
Warlocks cannot benefit from "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class."


II. Rules about Invocations and Eldritch Blasts
There is a tremendous amount of confusion about exactly how invocations and eldritch blasts are cast, how metamagic-like ability feats are applied to them, and so on.

Cast times: The standard cast time for an invocation is 1 standard action. However, any spell-like ability that mimics a spell uses the cast time of the applicable spell. For verification, please consult this page (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a) that clearly states the cast time for warlock's call is 10 minutes. The chart below gives the cast times for every spell-like invocation. The most confusing case is caster's lament -- it's cast time is 1 minute if used to dispel enchantments, but only 1 standard action if used to counterspell. That is because it is mimicking "break enchantment" for the first effect, and "greater dispel magic" for the second. Also, if a spell-like ability mimics multiple spells simultaneously, such as with entropic warding, it uses the largest applicable cast time between the two spells, but it is not any longer than that. So in the case of entropic warding, the cast time is still 1 standard action even though you are mimicking two spells that each have 1 standard action cast time.
Learning Metamagic-like Feats: Metamagic-like feats, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability, must be applied to either "Eldritch Blast" or to any individual non-essence, non-blast-shape invocation. All eldritch blasts, regardless of the shapes or invocations applied, count as "Eldritch Blast" for the purpose of feat interactions. This extends to feats such as mortalbane -- you cannot get 40 uses of mortalbane a day by adding and subtracting every possible blast shape and essence.
Casting Metamagic-Enhanced Eldritch Blasts: The rule for using all metamagic-like feats with spell-like abilities is as follows: The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to half its caster level (round down) –X. X will be a number typically from 1 to 4. There is a chart in the Monster Manual p.304 that shows Empower (-2) and Quicken (-4). Now, the rule for eldritch blasts is this: You may learn the feat as soon as you meet the requirements for a spell level 1 ability. But you may only apply the feat to your eldritch blast if the upgraded level of the spell (as listed on your blast shape or eldritch essence invocation, whichever is higher) still falls in the table. So you will never be casting a Quicken Spell-Like Eldritch Doom (8th level invocation) until you are level 22.
Invocation Durations: Invocations that mimic spells use the duration for the spells mimicked unless otherwise noted. So if it does not explicitly say that it lasts for 24 hours, then it uses the original spell durations. For some spells, that means that effects can wear off at different times. Normally this is a non-issue since invocations are at-will, and it's perfectly fine for ease of play to treat them as always-on, but it can matter if your character is tied up and thus cannot recast invocations, etc.


III. Mortalbane:
This feat is fairly standard for level 1 warlock, but there is a lot of confusion on exactly which invocations work with it and how much damage is applied.

Conjuration (Creation) spells get full effect. For example, the tentacles spawned from Chilling Tentacles mimic the spell Evard's Black Tentacles, which as a type conjuration (creation). Since the tentacles' very existence is the effect of the spell, mortalbane affects them.
Conjuration (Summoning) spells do not benefit from mortalbane. The effect of a conjuration (summoning) spell is basically a teleportation of the summoned monsters to you. The monsters themselves are not created by the spell, and thus are not the effect of the spell. They do not get damage bonuses. Please see the spell-like ability list at the end of this document for a list of types.
Invocations that have effects similar to a Conjuration (Summoning) but are not explicitly mimicking a spell get full bonus from Mortalbane. There is no summoning school of invocation, nor do the descriptions of those invocations state that swarms are summoned. For example, Hungry Darkness does NOT mimic summon swarm. It only mimics the Darkness spell. Because of this, these invocations get full benefit.
I know I said this guide isn't for strategy, but Summon Swarm really sucks for warlocks. Don't take it. It has a full-round cast time, doesn't benefit from Mortalbane, cannot be controlled, and only lasts while you concentrate. It's so bad, I'm actually pretty sure I'm still not breaking my rule. This is just helpful knowledge.
Non-damaging invocations never benefit from mortalbane. From mortalbane's description: "A mortalbane ability is a damaging spell-like ability ..." So if an ability does not do damage, it cannot even have mortalbane applied to it.
Mortalbane will deal damage every time the mortalbane-enhanced ability deals damage. A mortalbane ability deals "additional damage when used against living nonoutsiders." It does not deal additional damage when cast or activated, nor does it state that this damage can only be applied once. Rather, the damage is applied whenever the mortalbane ability is actually used against a living nonoutsider. The clearest example of this would be Chilling Tentacles. If a warlock casts Mortalbane Chilling Tentacles in an area occupied by an enemy, the cold aura is used against an enemy, dealing 2d6 points of cold damage. Since the ability is being used against him, he takes 2d6 more cold damage from mortalbane. Then the ability is used against the enemy again to grapple him, which deals 1d6+4 bludgeoning damage, triggering 2d6 additional bludgeoning mortalbane damage. This will continue until he leaves the area. Another example is with Eldritch Glaive -- if you make iterative attacks, you can use the invocation multiple times to deal damage. Each use will be increased.


IV. Some Random Stuff:
Some feat and skill interactions are non-intuitive.

Dark Discorporation really does stick you in bat form for 24 hours because it explicitly states that you can only take move actions. Ask your DM for a house rule if you don't want to live as a swarm of bats.
Dark Discorporation's Distraction ability is not the standard distraction for swarms. It does not reference the pre-existing ability. As such, the save DC for the swarm is the standard for a spell of its level (10+8+cha+ability focus)
Eldritch Doom allows you to target as many individual targets as you want within 20'. This includes objects, opponents, allies, anything. It is not simply an AOE that misses allies.
Brimstone Blast sets targets on fire. There are rules for catching fire in the DMG page 303. Brimstone Blast's spell description modifies parts of those rules, but not the part where burning characters take damage immediately and then additional damage in subsequent rounds. Because of this, the bonus damage for brimstone blast is 4d6 at level 6, up to 10d6 at level 20. It is a common misunderstanding that the damage is 2d6-8d6 with bonus damage only starting the round after it is cast.






Invocation"As Spell"SchoolCast TimeSpecial Notes
Caster's Lamentbreak enchantment / greater dispel magicAbjuration1 minute / 1 standardbreak enchantment: touch ; greater dispel magic: counterspell vs 7th level or lower spell only
Cold Comfortendure elementsAbjuration1 standardSelf only, grants aura giving effects to allies within 30'
Devour Magicgreater dispel magicAbjuration1 standardtouch, targeted version only, 5 temp hp per spell level dispelled for 1m, new cast replaces old tmp hp
Relentless Dispellingdispel magicAbjuration1 standardtargeted version only, automatically recasts at start of caster's next turn
Thieve's Banehold portalAbjuration1 standardif door opened by any means other than by caster explodes outward 5d6 damage 20', no damage dealt inside, ignores spell resistance, Reflex save for half damage
Voracious Dispellingdispel magicAbjuration1 standardany creature with an active spell effect dispelled takes 1 damage/level of spell
Entropic Wardingentropic shield / pass without traceAbjuration / Transmutation1 standardn/a
Breath of the Nightfog cloudConjuration (Creation)1 standardcentered on you only, duration 1 minute
Caustic Mirecaustic mireConjuration (Creation)1 standardone caustic mire only (oldest ends)
Chilling TentaclesEvard's black tentaclesConjuration (Creation)1 standardadditional 2d6 cold damage to all creatures inside area of effect
Steal Summoningsteal summoningConjuration (Summoning)1 immediaten/a
Summon Swarmsummon swarmConjuration (Summoning)1 roundduration conc only
Tenacious Plagueinsect plagueConjuration (Summoning)1 roundadd Cha mod to save DC of distraction, treat attacks as magic weapons for damage reduction
Flee the Scenedimension door / major imageConjuration (Teleportation) / Illusion (Figment)1 standarddimension door range 25'+5'/2lvl ; major image of caster lasts 1r
Call of the Beastspeak with animalsDivination1 standardalso gain wild empathy, duration 24h
Dark ForesightforesightDivination1 standardtelepathy with targets in 100' and line-of-sight
See the Unseensee invisibilityDivination1 standardduration 24h, also grants darkvision 60'
Charmcharm monsterEnchantment (Charm) [Mind-Affecting]1 standardone creature at-a-time, oldest is released if new charmed
Devil's WhisperssuggestionEnchantment (Compulsion) [Language-Dependent, Mind-Affecting]1 standardend of duration Will save -5 pen or think was their own idea ; allow number of active casts = Cha modifier (min 1)
Painful Slumber of Agesendless slumberEnchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]1 roundany creature awakened except by saving throw takes 1 damage/level (no save)
Warlock's CallsendingEvocation10 minutestake 1d10 damage if target refuses to reply and makes a Will save
DarknessdarknessEvocation [Darkness]1 standardn/a
Hungry DarknessdarknessEvocation [Darkness]1 standardduration conc + 2r ; dispelled if bats killed
Wall of Perilous Flamewall of fireEvocation [Fire]1 standardhalf damage is untyped, creatures killed are completely consumed (as if by destruction spell)
Impenetrable Barrierwall of forceEvocation [Force]1 standardblack and blocks sight of all kind, one wall active (oldest disappears), take 1d10 damage if destroyed
Baleful UtteranceshatterEvocation [Sonic]1 standardcreature holding or wearing item(s) must fort save or dazed 1 rd
Mask of Fleshdisguise selfIllusion (Glamer)1 standardmust touch attack target, steals appearance, target takes 1d6 cha penalty, will save negates all, duration 1h/lvl (damage and disguise)
Retributive Invisibilitygreater invisibilityIllusion (Glamer)1 standardpersonal only ; 4d6 damage in 20' radius if dispelled + stunned 1r, save for half damage and no stun
Walk UnseeninvisibilityIllusion (Glamer)1 standardself only, duration 24h
Nightmares Made Realnightmare terrainIllusion (Shadow)1 standardcreatures in area at start of caster's turn take 1d6 damage unless they Will save to disbelieve, one effect only (oldest ends)
Path of Shadowshadow walkIllusion (Shadow)1 standardbonus one-full-day's-rest hp restored per hour
Wall of Gloomwall of gloomIllusion (Shadow) [Darkness, Fear, Mind-Affecting]1 standardn/a
Curse of Despairbestow curseNecromancy1 standardtarget gets -1 penalty to attack rolls for 1 minute on successful save
Soulreaving Aurareaving auraNecromancy [Evil]1 swiftany creature dying within 10' of caster grants temp hp = creautres HD (max 10) for 1 round
The Dead Walkanimate deadNecromancy [Evil]1 standardif cast without material component, undead lasts 1m/level
Spiderwalkspider climbTransmutation1 standardduration 24h, immune to webs (magical and mundane)
Word of Changingbaleful polymorphTransmutation1 standardtarget gets 2nd save attempt after 24h before spell becomes permanent
Earthen Graspearthen graspTransmutation [Earth]1 standardn/a
Stony Graspstony graspTransmutation [Earth]1 standardn/a
Witchwood Stepwater walkTransmutation [Water]1 standardmovement unaffected by loose footing, immune to entangled, duration 24h

Troacctid
2017-04-08, 03:40 AM
I know I said this guide isn't for strategy, but Summon Swarm really sucks for warlocks. Don't take it. It has a full-round cast time, doesn't benefit from Mortalbane, cannot be controlled, and only lasts while you concentrate. It's so bad, I'm actually pretty sure I'm still not breaking my rule. This is just helpful knowledge.
It's an AoE save-or-lose that also deals unblockable damage, and you get to choose where to place it. It doesn't scale into high levels, but early on it is basically at-will sleep. It's one of the best invocations you can take at level 1.


Retributive Invisibility does not damage the caster. It specifically states that the shock wave emits from the caster, thus the caster is not in the area of effect. If the wording was a shock wave centered on the caster, then the caster would take damage. But it isn't. Similar wording can be found on the spell Shout, PHB p.279.
Shout is a cone. It originates in the corner of your space and only emanates away from you.

Retributive Invisibility is a full burst. It originates in a corner of your space and emanates in all directions. Including your direction.

If Retributive Invisibility were a cone (or a line), there would be no problem. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Nebuul
2017-04-08, 04:17 AM
It's an AoE save-or-lose that also deals unblockable damage, and you get to choose where to place it. It doesn't scale into high levels, but early on it is basically at-will sleep. It's one of the best invocations you can take at level 1.

In a perfect scenario, it is great to get the nauseated saves going. But here are the things going against it:

The cast time is a full round, which means every single enemy has a chance to throw rocks and peg you out of it before you can finish casting it
The cast time is a full round, which means you lose a full round of damage anytime you need to cast it, and that's assuming you get the cast off at all
The swarm is uncontrollable after initial casting and will move towards the closest living creature when the swarm is in unoccupied squares. Intelligent enemies can use this to position your allies between them and the swarm, forcing you to stop the spell or wipe your own team
Since the duration is shortened to Concentration, you cannot start casting a new swarm while the old swarm still does work to protect you
Since the duration is concentration, any damage against you will likely end the swarm immediately


If the casting time were 1 standard action, I'd be more inclined to think it was ok for level 1-3. But with the full-round cast at such a vulnerable level, I really think it just sucks.




Shout is a cone. It originates in the corner of your space and only emanates away from you.

Retributive Invisibility is a full burst. It originates in a corner of your space and emanates in all directions. Including your direction.

If Retributive Invisibility were a cone (or a line), there would be no problem. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Other spells that emanate even in an AOE only do damage to the source if they specify it. For example, look at Explosive Runes. Are there any rulings for retributive invisibility to which you an point me?

edit: ok I concede on this one spell :smallsmile:

Troacctid
2017-04-08, 04:40 AM
Well you have to remember that Tome of Magic adds the Murder of Crows as another option for summon swarm. So they're not just saving against nausea (Fort DC 12), they're also saving against blindness (Ref DC 14). And the blindness is permanent until healed, which means they can break your concentration, but they're still blinded. Very nasty debuff in a sizeable AoE.

For Retributive Invisibility: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#area

Regardless of the shape of the area, you select the point where the spell originates, but otherwise you don’t control which creatures or objects the spell affects. The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection. When determining whether a given creature is within the area of a spell, count out the distance from the point of origin in squares just as you do when moving a character or when determining the range for a ranged attack. The only difference is that instead of counting from the center of one square to the center of the next, you count from intersection to intersection.

[...]

Burst, Emanation, or Spread
Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell’s point of origin and measure its effect from that point.

A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, even including creatures that you can’t see. It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst’s area defines how far from the point of origin the spell’s effect extends.
The shockwave is a 20-foot burst that affects all creatures in the area.

Gruftzwerg
2017-04-08, 09:48 AM
Hellspawned Grace needs some rule clarification too imho.
It makes full use of the polymorph subschool rules (which is rare).

- you exchange your entire statblock with that of a Hellcat (incl. gaining all abilities, but you lose all your regular abilities).
- your entire equipment melts into the new form (and as by RAW Wilding Gasp doesn't work and I don't know of any other option to overcome this penalty)
- the form can't be progressed (BaB, Saves..) by any way (in regards to lvl)
- only prebuffing works.
- you are stuck in the form for the duration since you aren't given the ability to end it.

Warshaper (interaction):
If you go strict by RAW only the capstone (flashmorph) works for the form. But you could argument with your DM that you apply the passive buffs of the prc when you enter the form (and buffs stay).