How Can I Chain Spell a Melee Touch Spell?

[druid zook]

A DM I knew allowed the cleric to combine Divine Ward [PHB2] with Chain Spell [CAr] to cast heal spells on the party. My question is, does Divine Ward turn the touch spell into a targeted spell or a ray? And is this combo legal under RAW or RAI?

[BananaNomNom]

A DM I knew allowed the cleric to combine Divine Ward [PHB2] with Chain Spell [CAr] to cast heal spells on the party. My question is, does Divine Ward turn the touch spell into a targeted spell or a ray? And is this combo legal under RAW or RAI?


Any spell that specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained so as to affect that primary target normally,

Emphasis mine.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Divine Ward changes the Range: Touch to Range: Close, but the Target: Creature Touched becomes Target: Divine Warded Creature. It does not add an Effect: Ray to the spell's entry.

Adding Chain Spell for additional targets who aren't also divine warded makes it no longer affected by Divine Ward, which in turn makes Chain Spell fail to have any benefit:

"...you can increase the range of a touch spell to short range (25 feet + 5 feet per two caster levels) if you target the warded creature, and only the warded creature."


Just use Mass Cure spells instead. Mass Cure Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWoundsMass.htm) allows one target per caster level, no two targets can be more than 30 ft. apart, but it doesn't specify that you can't target the same creature more than once (which needs to be explicitly stated if that's the case, see Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm)). Thus at 9th level you can cast Mass Cure Light Wounds, target three creatures twice for 2d8+18 each, and target one creature three times for 3d8+25 (since 9+9+9=27 but it's capped at +25 per creature).

[sleepyphoenixx]

A DM I knew allowed the cleric to combine Divine Ward [PHB2] with Chain Spell [CAr] to cast heal spells on the party. My question is, does Divine Ward turn the touch spell into a targeted spell or a ray? And is this combo legal under RAW or RAI?

Divine Ward turns the touch spell into a targeted spell with short range (25ft +5ft per 2CL).
You still can't use it with Chain Spell by RAW because Divine Ward explicitly works only if you target only the creature you've created the ward with.

For the rest of the 24-hour period, you can increase the range of a touch spell to short range (25 feet + 5 feet per two caster levels) if you target the warded creature, and only the warded creature.

You can chain any melee touch spell as long as you apply Reach Spell first.
You can also cast a small selection of spells at range with Greater Status (BoED), but you can't chain them. Harmless touch spells of 2nd or lower level only, but it only costs you a 4th level spell slot instead of feats.

[druid zook]

Divine Ward turns the touch spell into a targeted spell with short range (25ft +5ft per 2CL).
You still can't use it with Chain Spell by RAW because Divine Ward explicitly works only if you target only the creature you've created the ward with.


You can chain any melee touch spell as long as you apply Reach Spell first.
You can also cast a small selection of spells at range with Greater Status (BoED), but you can't chain them. Harmless touch spells of 2nd or lower level only, but it only costs you a 4th level spell slot instead of feats.

I actually considered Reach Spell [CD], but it turns the touch spell into a ray, while increasing the spell's level +2.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I actually considered Reach Spell [CD], but it turns the touch spell into a ray, while increasing the spell's level +2.

Would a level of Hierophant for Divine Reach work? You lose a level of casting progression and it comes really late though.

[Dagroth]

DMM: Reach Spell & (if you want) DMM: Chain Spell.

[frogglesmash]

Would ocular spell work?

[druid zook]

Would ocular spell work?

Ocular Spell [LoM] can be used with Chain Spell, however, the spell uses up a spell slot five levels higher. Also, you can only have two ocular spells ready to go. And,you have to hit your primary target with a ranged touch attack, which could sometimes be problematic if your fighter is surrounded and in melee (+4 cover, -4 shooting into melee).

For this approach, it may be better to be a cleric/warlock/eldritch disciple (CM).

[druid zook]

DMM: Reach Spell & (if you want) DMM: Chain Spell.

Chain Spell doesn't work with rays.

[druid zook]

Just use Mass Cure spells instead. Mass Cure Light Wounds (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWoundsMass.htm) allows one target per caster level, no two targets can be more than 30 ft. apart, but it doesn't specify that you can't target the same creature more than once (which needs to be explicitly stated if that's the case, see Energy Missile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyMissile.htm)). Thus at 9th level you can cast Mass Cure Light Wounds, target three creatures twice for 2d8+18 each, and target one creature three times for 3d8+25 (since 9+9+9=27 but it's capped at +25 per creature).

I respectfully disagree with your assertion that Mass Cure spells can target the same creature multiple times. In plain English, it targets one creature per caster level, and does not say that you can retarget the same creature multiple times. Compare Magic Missile which specifically says you can have multiple missiles target the same creature.

How would a 9th-level cleric casting a 5th-level spell be able to out-heal an 11th-level cleric casting Heal? Mass Cure Light Wounds at CL 9 heals a minimum of 90 points, an average of 121.5, and a max of 153, assuming all nine uses get used. The CL 11 Heal fixes a flat 110 points.

Just because the Expanded Psionics Handbook inserted a specific wording in energy missile doesn't mean that the core rulebooks all changed the way the rules work.

Is this RAI? Yes, you can only target a specific creature once. Are you correct under RAW? I don't think so. What does everyone else say?

[Gildedragon]

If you dip (arcane caster) 1 and use alternative source spell to get into War Weaver, the capstone let's you treat touch spells as Short range. And the class as a whole lets you faux-mass a number of beneficial spells for free
Albeit it is a 5 level halt on your divine spell progress.
Maybe a divine adaptation exists?