Epic spell slaying army with one cast?

[Sordahon]

Is it possible to create it? As in slaying tens of thousands people of hd <10, maybe sacrificing them somehow and summoning 1d4 40 hd monsters. It would be truly epic spell, and casting it with at most few strong allies.

[Tainted_Scholar]

You would need the summon and destruction seeds to create the spell. Getting that powerful would require other casters sacrificing their spell slots or lots of money.

[Jack_Simth]

Is it possible to create it? As in slaying tens of thousands people of hd <10, maybe sacrificing them somehow and summoning 1d4 40 hd monsters. It would be truly epic spell, and casting it with at most few strong allies.
Yes, totally possible. What resources are you willing to invest, and what's your optimization tolerance? You've also got questions of reliability (evasion?), optimization level of the targets, and other things.

Edit: Let's see... a simple one: Deal 40d6 damage to everyone in a large area. That'll kill a rather lot of things.

Start with... Destroy. DC 29, deals 20d6 damage. Each additional d6 is +2 DC. To get to 40d6, we're looking at DC 69.
"Change from target to area" is +10, so 79, and that gives us ... oh, a 40 foot cone.
Now let's increase it! 9 iterations of "Increase area by 100%" makes that a 400 foot cone. 99 iterations makes that 4,000 foot cone. 199 iterations makes that an 8,000 foot cone. 299 iterations will make a 12,000 foot cone. That last one will do. 299 * 4 = 1196, so we're now looking at a DC of 1275.

Now you need to mitigate down to a level you can afford. Add some time to the casting, take some backlash, spend some XP, get some ritual participants... whatever you like. And you can now reduce a fairly decent sized city to dust.

[Zanos]

Someone's been reading overlord.

[Anthrowhale]

You don't need to sacrifice anyone or use an epic spell as every casting of gate at caster level 20 allows you to call and control a 40HD creature.

[Morcleon]

An instant cast mythal with miracle as a vanguard spell would work fine. Just have the miracle spell do all the heavy lifting. Repeat the miracle on subsequent rounds if you need to do other things.

[Sordahon]

Yes, totally possible. What resources are you willing to invest, and what's your optimization tolerance? You've also got questions of reliability (evasion?), optimization level of the targets, and other things.

Edit: Let's see... a simple one: Deal 40d6 damage to everyone in a large area. That'll kill a rather lot of things.

Start with... Destroy. DC 29, deals 20d6 damage. Each additional d6 is +2 DC. To get to 40d6, we're looking at DC 69.
"Change from target to area" is +10, so 79, and that gives us ... oh, a 40 foot cone.
Now let's increase it! 9 iterations of "Increase area by 100%" makes that a 400 foot cone. 99 iterations makes that 4,000 foot cone. 199 iterations makes that an 8,000 foot cone. 299 iterations will make a 12,000 foot cone. That last one will do. 299 * 4 = 1196, so we're now looking at a DC of 1275.

Now you need to mitigate down to a level you can afford. Add some time to the casting, take some backlash, spend some XP, get some ritual participants... whatever you like. And you can now reduce a fairly decent sized city to dust.
What about with Slay seed, with no save and spell resistance under 10 HD, and without chain gating solars with wishes and the like.

[Jack_Simth]

What about with Slay seed, with no save and spell resistance under 10 HD, and without chain gating solars with wishes and the like.
Then you're talking ad-hock modifiers, which require DM adjudication.

[VonMuller]

Excuse me, where are those seeds from? Thank you!

[Morcleon]

Excuse me, where are those seeds from? Thank you!

The mythal and shadow seeds are from Lost Empires of Faerun. The rest can be found on the SRD.

[Calthropstu]

Contagion.

Unleash the bubonic plague, kill them all.

[Sayt]

Gi have a look at champions of ruin, which has just the epic spell you're looking for. Only downside Is that it requires a sphere of annihilation as a material component.

[Morcleon]

Gi have a look at champions of ruin, which has just the epic spell you're looking for. Only downside Is that it requires a sphere of annihilation as a material component.

By RAW, a sphere of annihilation is in a spell component pouch, as it has no listed cost. :smalltongue:

[FocusWolf413]

By RAW, a sphere of annihilation is in a spell component pouch, as it has no listed cost. :smalltongue:

You reach into the pouch for your sphere, but oh no your hand is gone. Oops you died.

[Morcleon]

You reach into the pouch for your sphere, but oh no your hand is gone. Oops you died.

You can just use a 1d20+level+Int check to move the sphere rather than trying to grab it. Of course, if your enemy knows about this and beats you on the control check, they can just kill you. :smalltongue:

[WhatThePhysics]

You don't need to sacrifice anyone or use an epic spell as every casting of gate at caster level 20 allows you to call and control a 40HD creature.

You don't even need to be level 17+. Just cast Resilient Sphere, then Major Creation (Uranium), then Teleport out of the radioactive crater you just created.

Sure, that's 2 extra castings, but obliterating an entire army as a mere 9th level Wizard doesn't sound so bad.

[Sayt]

By RAW, a sphere of annihilation is in a spell component pouch, as it has no listed cost. :smalltongue:


You reach into the pouch for your sphere, but oh no your hand is gone. Oops you died.

I have trouble believing that people actually play with arbitrary amounts of artefacts in their spell component pouches, but aside from that, the orb is 2 ft in diameter and static, I'd wonder how it got in!

[Mechalich]

You don't even need to be level 17+. Just cast Resilient Sphere, then Major Creation (Uranium), then Teleport out of the radioactive crater you just created.

Sure, that's 2 extra castings, but obliterating an entire army as a mere 9th level Wizard doesn't sound so bad.

Physics doesn't work the same in D&D as it does in the real world. Uranium atoms don't exist - uranium is a type of Earth mixed with an unusually high portion of Fire and a latent positive energy association. Causing a massive explosive chain reaction using uranium might open a gateway to the positive energy plane, but it will not cause a nuclear blast.

[rel]

Yeah, my default D&D world is formed from the base elements fire, earth, air and water in varying amounts. There is no uranium, no gunpowder and no transistors.

Getting back to the OP's question I suggest a few pre-epic options. The first is Apocalypse from the Sky a ninth level spell from Book of Vile Darkness. It destroys an army and most other low level things in a huge area. Requires an artifact to sacrifice and a full day to cast.

For a sillier option there is the locate city bomb.

[WhatThePhysics]

Physics doesn't work the same in D&D as it does in the real world. Uranium atoms don't exist - uranium is a type of Earth mixed with an unusually high portion of Fire and a latent positive energy association. Causing a massive explosive chain reaction using uranium might open a gateway to the positive energy plane, but it will not cause a nuclear blast.

Not to derail the thread, but there are no references to uranium having those qualities, and I really don't see how uranium is associated with the energy type that heals living creatures. As far as I know, physics in D&D works according to the "as it does in reality, unless otherwise noted" principle.

[Mordaedil]

I find that a very wide Hellball can do the job just fine.

[Tainted_Scholar]

As far as I know, physics in D&D works according to the "as it does in reality, unless otherwise noted" principle.

That is correct. The DMG states that the material plane is just like our universe except when noted. Additionally uranium is a thing in D&D just like mangoes are a thing. Just because they don't have rules associated for them doesn't mean they don't exist. Unfortunately you get divide by cucumber errors if you try to do anything related to the rules with them.:smallfrown:

[WhatThePhysics]

That is correct. The DMG states that the material plane is just like our universe except when noted. Additionally uranium is a thing in D&D just like mangoes are a thing. Just because they don't have rules associated for them doesn't mean they don't exist. Unfortunately you get divide by cucumber errors if you try to do anything related to the rules with them.:smallfrown:

You only get that error if you strictly limit yourself to D&D 3.5 and RAW. There's precedent for porting d20 series content into 3.5, as evidenced by this Wizards of the Coast article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061020a), the DMG's future/modern weapons being near-exact duplicates of their d20 counterparts, and explicit porting rules in d20 Urban Arcana.

The payload for Little Boy was 64 kg of uranium, with an average enrichment of 80%, and produced a 15 kiloton explosion. A 9th level Wizard casting Major Creation can conjure up to 4.9 megagrams of 100% enriched uranium, which should at least produce a 1 megaton explosion. In d20 Apocalypse, you'll find the following clauses: "Crater Radius: Nuclear weapons create massive fireballs that vaporize everything within them. Everything inside the crater left behind by a nuclear blast is destroyed." and "Devastation Zone: Very few people in a devastation zone at the moment of the cataclysm survive." For a 1 megaton bomb, the Crater Radius is 1,500 feet, and the Devastation Radius is 1 mile.

[The Glyphstone]

You only get that error if you strictly limit yourself to D&D 3.5 and RAW. There's precedent for porting d20 series content into 3.5, as evidenced by this Wizards of the Coast article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061020a), the DMG's future/modern weapons being near-exact duplicates of their d20 counterparts, and explicit porting rules in d20 Urban Arcana.

The payload for Little Boy was 64 kg of uranium, with an average enrichment of 80%, and produced a 15 kiloton explosion. A 9th level Wizard casting Major Creation can conjure up to 4.9 megagrams of 100% enriched uranium, which should at least produce a 1 megaton explosion. In d20 Apocalypse, you'll find the following clauses: "Crater Radius: Nuclear weapons create massive fireballs that vaporize everything within them. Everything inside the crater left behind by a nuclear blast is destroyed." and "Devastation Zone: Very few people in a devastation zone at the moment of the cataclysm survive." For a 1 megaton bomb, the Crater Radius is 1,500 feet, and the Devastation Radius is 1 mile.

True, but we have to limit ourselves to RAW in discussion of rules, because there is no guarantee that one DM's homebrew or houserules will be legit at another DM's table.

As far as porting from other d20 sources...D20 future has the stats for a 1-megaton nuclear bomb, it deals 16d8 damage. That won't even kill a decently high-HD dragon. We had a thread about this a month or two back.

[WhatThePhysics]

True, but we have to limit ourselves to RAW in discussion of rules, because there is no guarantee that one DM's homebrew or houserules will be legit at another DM's table.

As far as porting from other d20 sources...D20 future has the stats for a 1-megaton nuclear bomb, it deals 16d8 damage. That won't even kill a decently high-HD dragon. We had a thread about this a month or two back.

The issue isn't RAW by itself, but sticking to it while also limiting yourself to just 3.5 content. Regarding the nuclear missile from d20 Future, that's the only comparable result if the DM only sticks to the MSRD, or doesn't allow d20 Apocalypse content for some reason.

[Tainted_Scholar]

As far as porting from other d20 sources...D20 future has the stats for a 1-megaton nuclear bomb, it deals 16d8 damage. That won't even kill a decently high-HD dragon. We had a thread about this a month or two back.

I believe you multiple the damage by ten for creatures, making average damage 720. So you could destroy the majority of an army with one. There would undoubtedly be survivors though.

[The Glyphstone]

I believe you multiple the damage by ten for creatures, making average damage 720. So you could destroy the majority of an army with one. There would undoubtedly be survivors though.

On review, you're right. So yeah, it would work for the stated purposes.

[WhatThePhysics]

I believe you multiple the damage by ten for creatures, making average damage 720. So you could destroy the majority of an army with one. There would undoubtedly be survivors though.

Could you provide the source for that? I just scanned the MSRD, and I can't find anything.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Could you provide the source for that? I just scanned the MSRD, and I can't find anything.

I can't find it either, but I've heard multiple people mention it on numerous occasions, so I assume it's true.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Could you provide the source for that? I just scanned the MSRD, and I can't find anything.

I was scouring through the MSRD just yesterday in search of that very rule. If anyone could tell me where it is I'd appreciate it.

[Anthrowhale]

Have we discussed Erupt yet? 200 fire damage fort/2 in a 2000' radius with a 1 minute casting time by an L9 cleric spell.

[Tainted_Scholar]

Have we discussed Erupt yet? 200 fire damage fort/2 in a 2000' radius with a 1 minute casting time by an L9 cleric spell.

Where is it from?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Have we discussed Erupt yet? 200 fire damage fort/2 in a 2000' radius with a 1 minute casting time by an L9 cleric spell.

Where is that spell from? My Google-Fu has failed me.

Edit: Swordsaged'd.

[Anthrowhale]

Where is it from?

Erupt is from Serpent Kingdoms

[ColorBlindNinja]

Erupt is from Serpent Kingdoms

Thanks.

It doesn't seem to have a damage cap. That practically begs for Consumptive Field abuse...

[Tainted_Scholar]

Have we discussed Erupt yet? 200 fire damage fort/2 in a 2000' radius with a 1 minute casting time by an L9 cleric spell.

It doesn't seem to have a damage cap.

Since we're talking about an epic caster, it would be dealing more than 200 damage.

Is there any way to shorten the casting time?

[ColorBlindNinja]

Since we're talking about an epic caster, it would be dealing more than 200 damage.

Is there any way to shorten the casting time?

The only way I can think of is to be an Erudite Spell to Power and use Linked Power. Or create an epic spell with the Shadow seed with a standard action casting time and have it emulate the spell.

[Anthrowhale]

Is there any way to shorten the casting time?

Be a Wizard/Wyrm Wizard 2 getting Erupt on your class list then take Spell Mastery[Erupt] and Uncanny Forethought to cast it as a standard action.

[ColorBlindNinja]

Be a Wizard/Wyrm Wizard 2 getting Erupt on your class list then take Spell Mastery[Erupt] and Uncanny Forethought to cast it as a standard action.

It'd rather take 10 levels of Rainbow Servant. That way you don't lose caster levels.