An odd request: failing to succeed

[Provengreil]

So TLDR, I was challenged yesterday by a friend to locate a pathfinder compatible or easily convertable class that benefits from failure. It can be goofy failure-to-success(think Jar Jar binks "winning" his battle) or something else, though I can't imagine what, but gaining beneficial effects off of rolls that would otherwise do nothing or worse, harm the user, is suposed to be a class feature and not just DM intervention in this case.

Off the top of anyone's head, is there a known class that accomplished this? 3rd party or homebrew is perfectly fine here btw. Thanks in advance to anyone who actually knows something like this.


NOTE: This is NOT a request based on maximizing chances of success or mitigating failure from an optimization standpoint, so things that CANNOT fail, like words of power, aren't an answer to this.

[Gildedragon]

Succeeding despite failing:
Rerolls can be seen as doing this, especially Luck-feat rerolls.
Also there's something that treats natural 1s as 20s, iirc
I'd see these mechanics as doing stuff akin to: missing the target's torso, but clipping their foot, failing a saving throw to dodge a fireball and accidentally stopping dropping and rolling...

[OldTrees1]

If you have a +10 luck bonus to your check, then can it be argued that 50% of your successes were just being lucky with your botched attempts?

[GilesTheCleric]

Do you mean things like Karmic Strike, where you're only able to hit the foe after your AC has already failed to deflect their blow? Or where you're turning the core d20 mechanic on its head and saying that lower numbers are better? There's some spells with effects that roll on tables where conceivably a lower number is better, if the designers forgot what they were doing when crafting the table.

Edit: Or perhaps you mean something like the yuan-ti poison/ ritual in SK, where the goal is to fail your save in order to be transformed, while if you succeed on your save, you instead die?

[Dagroth]

Seek out the Jester class....

[ATHATH]

Also there's something that treats natural 1s as 20s, iirc

It's called Better Lucky Than Good, if you're wondering.

[Crake]

If you have a +10 luck bonus to your check, then can it be argued that 50% of your successes were just being lucky with your botched attempts?

That's not quite how percentages on a d20 work :smalltongue:


Do you mean things like Karmic Strike, where you're only able to hit the foe after your AC has already failed to deflect their blow? Or where you're turning the core d20 mechanic on its head and saying that lower numbers are better? There's some spells with effects that roll on tables where conceivably a lower number is better, if the designers forgot what they were doing when crafting the table.

Edit: Or perhaps you mean something like the yuan-ti poison/ ritual in SK, where the goal is to fail your save in order to be transformed, while if you succeed on your save, you instead die?

I think the idea the OP is going for is that, even on a fail, the user gets some benefit, though not necessarily the full effect of a success.

[Twurps]

doesn't an optimized shadowcaster mage have a mechanic like this? Get a will save, if you succeed, you see the illusion, which is 110% real so damage is worse.

It's reversed luck on the opponent though, not on your own rolls.

[OldTrees1]

That's not quite how percentages on a d20 work :smalltongue:

True. It would have been more accurate to say at least 50%(if you succeed on 1-20) but could be 100%(if you succeed on 11-20).

[Florian]

PF/Golarion Halflings can get the Adaptable Luck ART (and supporting feats - Fortunate One, Adaptive Fortune) that allow to add a luck bonus to a roll/check after the result is known, so turning a failure into success. Now with the right traits and equipment, it´s easy to increase luck boni.

[Lazymancer]

Off the top of anyone's head, is there a known class that accomplished this? 3rd party or homebrew is perfectly fine here btw. Thanks in advance to anyone who actually knows something like this.
No. But it is possible to make such class.

To other mechanics mentioned here, I'll add Crusader's (ToB) Steely Resolve that grants bonuses to attacks/damage depending on how much damage character recently suffered. I'm assuming that's what you are talking about, except you want something like this to be the main feature of the class, rather than supplementary ability.

[souridealist]

It's not a central mechanic, but goblins can take a trait which matches the flavor of what you're talking about:

Advantageous Distraction
Benefit: Once per day as a swift action, you can be momentarily distracted in combat—ducking an axe swing to inspect a toadstool, or stooping behind a tree to lick some bark and accidentally avoiding an arrow, and so on. When you activate this ability, you gain a +2 dodge bonus to your AC for 1 round.

It probably wouldn't do what you want on its own, but it could round out a character.

(Text is straight from the SRD, if anyone's concerned.)

[Provengreil]

Thanks for all the help, guys. I didn't expect it to be a feat, but Better Lucky than Good seems to fit my bill best.

[The Viscount]

Mark of Cania gives you a +1 bonus to attack, damage, saves, and checks, increasing every round you miss an attack or an enemy makes a save against your abilities. There is no limit on the bonus.

[Dagroth]

Mark of Cania gives you a +1 bonus to attack, damage, saves, and checks, increasing every round you miss an attack or an enemy makes a save against your abilities. There is no limit on the bonus.

Source of this? And does it automatically reset to 0 when you hit?

[The Viscount]

The source is Fiendish Codex II, and yes, it does.

[GilesTheCleric]

Here's another failure that's not so bad (relatively): Wormbound, Drag343 46. On a failed save, you rise as a Spawn of Kyuss.