A Complicated Custom Spell

[Chilxius]

I have a player right now whose character is obsessed with gaining magical knowledge. I encouraged him to start researching unique spells. He already researched Enlarge Construct (the party fighter is warforged), but now he wants to create something pretty crazy.

In keeping with his character's personality (which I appreciate), he wants to create a spell that, while active, will allow him to observe a spell used by someone else and (upon a successful save/check) store that spell in one of his slots, which he would probably have to leave open for this purpose. He could later (after another check) scribe it to a book or scroll.

I like the concept, but what level spell would this even be? And is it a fair power? And would it be fair to let him cast the spell he stored, or would it only exist as a theory until he scribed it?

[Venger]

I have a player right now whose character is obsessed with gaining magical knowledge. I encouraged him to start researching unique spells. He already researched Enlarge Construct (the party fighter is warforged), but now he wants to create something pretty crazy.

In keeping with his character's personality (which I appreciate), he wants to create a spell that, while active, will allow him to observe a spell used by someone else and (upon a successful save/check) store that spell in one of his slots, which he would probably have to leave open for this purpose. He could later (after another check) scribe it to a book or scroll.

I like the concept, but what level spell would this even be? And is it a fair power? And would it be fair to let him cast the spell he stored, or would it only exist as a theory until he scribed it?

What is his proposed duration? would it only work for spells he sees cast, or would it work to observe enemy buffstacks as well? what kind of save/check are you thinking of imposing?

regardless of the answers, this is way too strong. it puts him ahead of even a spell-to-power erudite, which are already grossly overpowered.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spells don't necessarily do exactly what you want them to, they'll often have unintended side effects. The spell can be researched and experimented with further, but that costs time and resources and the end result will likely have a higher spell level than the original. Example:

Miraculous Spelltheft 1.0
Abjuration
Level: Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spell (see text)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell can only be used to counterspell another creature's spell. Usually this means you must ready an action to counterspell to use it. This spell is only effective against spells of a lower level than itself, but Heighten Spell can be used to make it effective against spells higher than 1st level. You must make a successful Spellcraft check to identify the spell you're targeting, or this spell fails (DC 15 + spell level, you must see or hear the spell's verbal or somatic components).

Make a Dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell you've targeted. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, you counter the spell you targeted. If you have an unused spell slot equal to the level of the spell slot the countered spell was cast from, you may choose to prepare the countered spell in that spell slot, but doing so causes you to be dazed for one round. If you fail your dispel check the targeted spell still has its normal effect, but the caster of the spell you targeted retains it as though it wasn't cast.

A spell prepared via this method is not automatically learned, and cannot be learned from your memory. You can use the prepared spell to create a scroll if you meet the prerequisites and can cover the cost, and learn it from the scroll. Keep in mind that if the scroll has a base price of over 1,000 gp it takes more than one day to make, and the spell must be expended as though cast on every day of that process, so this is not feasible for spells of 5th level or higher.

It's straining to fail to counter a spell using this one, whether you failed the spellcraft check, failed the dispel check, or targeted a spell that was too high of a level to be affected by this spell. Any time this happens, you take one point of intelligence drain and lose a prepared spell (or unused spell slot) for the day of the level of the spell you targeted, or one of the highest level you have remaining if you don't have one of that level.

[Gildedragon]

Hmm...
I'd probably make three versions of the spell. A lvl 3 (Lesser), 6, (Vainilla) and 9 (Greater) one.
Roughly speaking the spell creates a spell slot that can be filled with a spell one identifies with spellcraft (and possibly detect magic)
Lesser lvl 0-2
Nilla: 3-5
Greater: 6-8

Spell wouldn't be learnable, merely a copy of the one examined (with the metamagics and choices identical to the one examined).


That it requires 3 rounds to cast for most things (because most effects need detect magic to be identified) makes it not terribly bad, esp if one limits the duration of the virtual slot to rounds per level. Cast the spell, cast detect magic, wait 3 rounds, cast copied spell

[Aleolus]

It sounds similar to Alamanthers Return, a spell introduced in Dragon Mag #200. Ninth level spell, it allows the magic user to cast any spell he doesn't have in his spellbook, but has seen another magic-user cast. The copy he casts is identical to the most powerful version of it he has seen cast, in terms of caster level, save DC and so on (he doesn't use his own for any of them)

[Darth Ultron]

Alamanther's Return is a 9th level spell that lets a wizard 'copy' any spell they have seen and cast it. But to ''steal/copy'' a spell and put it in a persons memory and/or spellbook, that is a bit too powerful.

[ATHATH]

I'd recommend looking at the Sha'ir for inspiration.

Maybe only let him copy spells that are on his class's spell list?

[Starbuck_II]

Spells don't necessarily do exactly what you want them to, they'll often have unintended side effects. The spell can be researched and experimented with further, but that costs time and resources and the end result will likely have a higher spell level than the original. Example:

Miraculous Spelltheft 1.0
Abjuration
Level: Wiz 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target or Area: One spell (see text)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell can only be used to counterspell another creature's spell. Usually this means you must ready an action to counterspell to use it. This spell is only effective against spells of a lower level than itself, but Heighten Spell can be used to make it effective against spells higher than 1st level. You must make a successful Spellcraft check to identify the spell you're targeting, or this spell fails (DC 15 + spell level, you must see or hear the spell's verbal or somatic components).

Make a Dispel check (1d20 + your caster level, maximum +10) against the spell you've targeted. The DC for this dispel check is 11 + the spell’s caster level. If you succeed, you counter the spell you targeted. If you have an unused spell slot equal to the level of the spell slot the countered spell was cast from, you may choose to prepare the countered spell in that spell slot, but doing so causes you to be dazed for one round. If you fail your dispel check the targeted spell still has its normal effect, but the caster of the spell you targeted retains it as though it wasn't cast.

A spell prepared via this method is not automatically learned, and cannot be learned from your memory. You can use the prepared spell to create a scroll if you meet the prerequisites and can cover the cost, and learn it from the scroll. Keep in mind that if the scroll has a base price of over 1,000 gp it takes more than one day to make, and the spell must be expended as though cast on every day of that process, so this is not feasible for spells of 5th level or higher.

It's straining to fail to counter a spell using this one, whether you failed the spellcraft check, failed the dispel check, or targeted a spell that was too high of a level to be affected by this spell. Any time this happens, you take one point of intelligence drain and lose a prepared spell (or unused spell slot) for the day of the level of the spell you targeted, or one of the highest level you have remaining if you don't have one of that level.

Since the entire purpose is counterspelling, why not immediate action?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Since the entire purpose is counterspelling, why not immediate action?

It's not designed to circumvent the normal action economy of counterspelling, and that's a very rough starting point for a spell that the PC would need to further research and improve on. It's basically designed so that it needs to be improved on.

[rel]

how about this:

Sychar's Splendid Scribe, lesser
level: wizard 3
components: V, S, M
casting time: 1 standard action
target: self
duration: 1 round / level
saving throw: none
SR: no

While this spell is active you may gain knowledge of a single wizard spell by observing it being cast.
You may capture any wizard spell of second level or lower that you successfully identify as it is being cast (via spellcraft, knowledge arcana or some other method).
You spend an immediate action and Sychar's Splendid Scribes effect ends. The expended spell slot that previously held Sychar's Splendid Scribe now holds an unmodified (no meta magic or other effects that were on the spell being cast) copy of the spell you observed.
The copied spell is normal in all respects and can be cast or copied into a spell book or scribed onto a scroll as normal.
Casting this spell without using a spell slot (e.g. from a scroll) is possible but the caster must expend an unexpended spell slot of at least 3rd level to store an observed spell.
If the spells duration ends with no spell being copied its effect is simply wasted.

material component: dried noodles

note: normal and greater versions of this spell exist. They are 6th and 9th level spells and can copy spells of up to 5th and 8th level respectively.

[Matrota]

Something along those lines exists in the form of the planar handbook's ardent dilletante prestige class. They get a supernatural ability at 8th level called see it again, where can they recast any spell they were affected by within one round with the same DC, duration, etc. I'd say that's at least something to look at along with a spellthief for the in-game research fot the fundamentals of the spell. To remove a spell slot from an enemy and take it for yourself though is almost certainly a 9th level spell, or if you're generous, it'd probably need to be at least 2 levels higher than the spell you're "stealing."

[Firest Kathon]

Getting a spell from a dead spellcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/blood-transcription/) is a level 2 spell, so getting it from an observed spell should be higher level.

[Chilxius]

'Stealing' the spell or 'countering' it isn't really the point he's going for. He wants to be able to learn it later, so re-casting it during that fight doesn't need to be part of the spell. It's mostly a way to gain more knowledge, which is his character's motivation.

Maybe something like this, though I still don't know what spell level would be reasonable:

Enoch's Instant Analysis
Divination
Level: Wiz 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 immediate action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None (harmless)

Upon casting this spell, you gain supernatural perception of magic. If you cast in response to a spell cast by someone else, you have a chance of learning the spell just by witnessing it. You must be able to see and hear the caster, and you must have a spell slot open of the same level of the spell you are trying to analyze or higher. This cannot be a slot that held a spell you previously cast, but must be left open during spell preparation. On a successful Spellcraft check, you commit the spell to memory. Spell craft DC = 30+spell level. You gain a bonus of +2 to learning spells of your chosen school. If you attempt to learn a spell of a prohibited school, the spell automatically fails. You also gain a bonus of +2 to your check if you were a target of the spell (although you must succeed at a Concentration check as normal to cast this spell if the targeting spell dealt damage).
Once you have committed a spell to memory, you can retain that knowledge for up to one day per caster level. During that time, the spell may be scribed onto a scroll or into your spellbook, though you still pay the normal cost for doing so. If you prepare a new spell using the slot that temporarily holds the spell, that knowledge is lost.
You can only use this spell to retain knowledge of spells that you have the requisite Int score to cast. You cannot use this spell if you are currently confused, dazed, fascinated, stunned, frightened, panicked, or cowering.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I like the idea of lesser/normal/greater versions. I also think it might be interesting to let him get divine spells this way - he wouldn't be allowed to learn them, but could scribe it as a one-use arcane version of a divine spell. For now though, it would only allow sorcerer/wizard spells.

Mostly I see this spell as a fun way for me as DM to come up with new spells for his enemies, which he could then possibly learn and use later, like a Blue Mage from Final Fantasy. It'd be rewarding, and make the campaign richer.

If the spell looks unfair, let me know why. (we are playing 3.5, if it matters)


material component: dried noodles Is this a joke about cramming for college exams? Because that's hilarious.

[rel]

Your spell seems fine.

Material components should always be a joke ;)