Dweomerkeeper as a wizard?

[logic_error]

Wow. This PrC is just terrific. Even if I don't abuse the SLA feature, it gives me a lot of flexibility and additionally free spells which simply have no SR. Makes some spells utterly devastating. I feel that entering it as a C1/W4 is totally justified even when I would naturally shun losing a CL. C1 gives me two domains if I can choose any one other than Magic. Planning comes to mind with the free extend magic. Thoughts? Do you guys feel this is a sacrifice worth making for the goods? Also, can you suggest other routes and/or optimizations for the early levels?

Thanks!

[Gildedragon]

Yes. It is worth it.
Alternate Source Spell is great with wizard x cleric 1, lets your wizard dmm

[logic_error]

Thanks! Is there a feat in core/Complete divine/Arcane/Eberron that helps the class? I am not sure if online/Dragon material will be allowed (and probably won't be). Otherwise, I think it works at its :P. The overall features are just too good.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Dweomerkeeper is in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a), for those wondering.

The 'best' entry for it is actually (Cloistered) Cleric 5 with the feat Magical Training (PGtF) to meet the arcane casting prerequisite. This also gets you the required three Cleric levels for taking the feat Initiate of Mystra, which allows your spells to work in anti-magic fields and dead magic areas, among other benefits. I'm pretty sure this is most often referred to as the Cheater of Mystra.

For a Wizard, there are actually better choices that don't require the loss of a level of spellcasting, or better things you can do with a lost caster level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520078-Optimal-Caster-Level-Loss-vs-Free-Metamagic#4). A Wizard can get spontaneous access to spells with the Spontaneous Divination ACF and Uncanny Forethought, to name a few. Most of the best offensive wizard spells are instantaneous conjurations that ignore SR by default. You can use Permanency for Arcane Sight, so the only really good benefit is the reduced cost of metamagic at the 10th level, and there are better investments of ten levels you can make for that (Incantatrix). The only unique benefit it offers is being able to use Supernatural Spell to ignore costly material components and XP costs of spells, which is just cheese anyway.

It's really only good because it allows a Cleric to do things a Cleric couldn't normally do, and for no caster level loss. On a Wizard you have other options for doing pretty much everything it offers, with less investment and no loss of caster levels.

[logic_error]

Dweomerkeeper is in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a), for those wondering.

The 'best' entry for it is actually (Cloistered) Cleric 5 with the feat Magical Training (PGtF) to meet the arcane casting prerequisite. This also gets you the required three Cleric levels for taking the feat Initiate of Mystra, which allows your spells to work in anti-magic fields and dead magic areas, among other benefits. I'm pretty sure this is most often referred to as the Cheater of Mystra.

For a Wizard, there are actually better choices that don't require the loss of a level of spellcasting, or better things you can do with a lost caster level (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?520078-Optimal-Caster-Level-Loss-vs-Free-Metamagic#4). A Wizard can get spontaneous access to spells with the Spontaneous Divination ACF and Uncanny Forethought, to name a few. Most of the best offensive wizard spells are instantaneous conjurations that ignore SR by default. You can use Permanency for Arcane Sight, so the only really good benefit is the reduced cost of metamagic at the 10th level, and there are better investments of ten levels you can make for that (Incantatrix). The only unique benefit it offers is being able to use Supernatural Spell to ignore costly material components and XP costs of spells, which is just cheese anyway.

It's really only good because it allows a Cleric to do things a Cleric couldn't normally do, and for no caster level loss. On a Wizard you have other options for doing pretty much everything it offers, with less investment and no loss of caster levels.

Thanks! Quite detailed! I will consider this :).

[Gildedragon]

it's from dragon 325
It lowers your CL, but DMM on arcane stuff is fantastic

[Cosi]

Dweomerkeeper is in the Complete Divine Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a), for those wondering.

The 'best' entry for it is actually (Cloistered) Cleric 5 with the feat Magical Training (PGtF) to meet the arcane casting prerequisite. This also gets you the required three Cleric levels for taking the feat Initiate of Mystra, which allows your spells to work in anti-magic fields and dead magic areas, among other benefits. I'm pretty sure this is most often referred to as the Cheater of Mystra.

I'd have to dispute that slightly. I think the best entry takes the Spell Domain, and uses anyspell to meet the arcane casting requirement. Otherwise I agree that you're much better off going in as a Cleric, particularly because Supernatural Spell encourages the use of obscure spells with weird costs, which Clerics rock at.

[Anthrowhale]

Wizard is required to qualify for Uncanny Forethought which reduces the casting time of any spellmastery spells to a standard action. Hence a Cleric 1/Wizard 4/DK 4 can cast any spellmastery spell as a supernatural spell stripping all components (verbal, somatic, XP, material, etc...). This is significantly powerful even at ECL 10 when you can start using Permanency and Extract Gift liberally.

An Illumian can use Turn Undead from cleric 1 to persist 2 spells/day which becomes 4 spells/day with a rod of extend spell.

[Sr Gaspar Livin]

Wizard is required to qualify for Uncanny Forethought which reduces the casting time of any spellmastery spells to a standard action. Hence a Cleric 1/Wizard 4/DK 4 can cast any spellmastery spell as a supernatural spell stripping all components (verbal, somatic, XP, material, etc...). This is significantly powerful even at ECL 10 when you can start using Permanency and Extract Gift liberally.


Uncanny Forethought, as standard actions or full-round just allow you use a reserved spell slots, you still need cast(Spell casting) that. It not replace the CASTING TIME. You still can't use supernatural spell.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Uncanny Forethought, as standard actions or full-round just allow you use a reserved spell slots, you still need cast(Spell casting) that. It not replace the CASTING TIME. You still can't use supernatural spell.

Uncanny Forethought explicitly says that you use the standard/full round action to cast. So no, you don't need to cast twice.
Yes, it's unbalanced with spells that have a long cast time (or just, you know, in general, but it's hardly the only feat like that).

I blame bad editing, because most other options along those lines limit you to spells of a certain maximum cast time.
It's a reasonable houserule to limit it like that (or even ban it completely), but since there's no errata for EoE it's just that: a houserule.

[Eleriel]

Dweomerkeeper is truly amazing PRC, for me, it is one of the classes that makes the NPC's "super" wizards.

With that said, if your DM allows it, take is ASAP.

It was already mentioned here the uncanny forethought cheese, by RAW it opens up a plethora of options. I mean, genesis for free xp... come on... Ice Assassin, Wish...

My favorite way to make the ultimate powerful caster pre-godly level, is to dip on Halruaan Elder before 9 and take 5 levels. So, now you can make simulacrums of yourself and boost your caster level to more insane stuff.

You can also make it a regular caster without taking it to the limit like this, but it is a super PRC on pair with incantatrix and the mentioned Halruaan Elder. (just to make it clear, you can combine those three PRC's and win your DM hatred for eternity :) )