Rogue/Sorcerer?

[Sans.]

Basic combat concept is you cast Quickened True Strike for advantage, then use it to Sneak Attack every turn. You only need Dex, Con and Cha (which has synergy with skills) and you can improve on spell versatility and spell slots with AT. Thoughts?

[AttilatheYeon]

Read True Strike again. The spell specifically calls out attacks on Your next turn. That means the next round u have a turn. One of the many reasons this spell is craptastic.

[LeonBH]

True Strike lets you gain advantage on your next attack on your next turn, sacrificing your action this turn. Quickened True Strike lets you do that as a bonus action, but your first attack will be without advantage.

It's an interesting idea, but it consumes 2 SP per turn and you would run out quickly, being not a full caster. The Rogue could also do the Hide action (hiding places willing), or just ask the Barbarian to stand next to the enemy. If Flanking or Facing rules are in play, then Rogues are golden :)

[LudicSavant]

Basic combat concept is you cast Quickened True Strike for advantage, then use it to Sneak Attack every turn. You only need Dex, Con and Cha (which has synergy with skills) and you can improve on spell versatility and spell slots with AT. Thoughts?

Even if the spell worked the way you thought it did, this would be pretty weak in terms of resources in to utility out.

But it gets worse. Quickened True Strike won't even let you get advantage on the turn you use it. It hands you advantage on your next turn. That makes it go from "bad" to "awful."

[Jerrykhor]

You want sneak attack every turn? Just hit the guy standing next to your Fighter or any melee ally. You can do this every turn.

P.S: True Strike is utter crap

[Corran]

Basic combat concept is you cast Quickened True Strike for advantage, then use it to Sneak Attack every turn. You only need Dex, Con and Cha (which has synergy with skills) and you can improve on spell versatility and spell slots with AT. Thoughts?
All else that has already been mentioned aside, here is another issue.
Having a way to create advantage for your rogue is always good, particularly for when you will want to cancel any potential disadvantage you might be suffering from, due to how sneak attack works. So, having a way to get advantage in your case, works better the more sneak attack dice you have (ie the more damage you can deal). But quickening costs 2 sorcery points, which means that even with using spell slots to recover sp, it wont get you very far, unless you take many sorcerer levels (for more spell slots, and more sp). But that means that at the same time you are taking sorcerer points, you are not taking any rogue levels, so your sneak attack stays at low levels, and that defeats the whole point of spending expensive resources to gain advanate. It is just too counterproductive, even if it worked the way you initially assumed.

[DivisibleByZero]

P.S: True Strike is utter crap

EK 7 / AT 13
Attack, bonus action from War Magic to cast True Strike.
Next round you have advantage, and you do it again.
The only time you don't have advantage is on the first round.

[LeonBH]

It's actually the reverse. Action cast True Strike, and make one weapon attack as a bonus action. It's an important distinction because EK 7 gets Extra Attack, and War Magic and Extra Attack don't play well.

[DivisibleByZero]

Whatever, you get the idea.

[X3r4ph]

Grab a level of Revised Ranger and you have Advantage on first round.

Or Sorcerer (Old Favored Soul) 8/ Rogue (Whatever) 12. It will get you two attacks, Trickery domain, Improved Invisibility, +6d6 SA, Booming Blade, Pass Without Trace.

If you are not using UA, you could simply multiclass with Barbarian to get Reckless Attack.

[DivisibleByZero]

Basically, what everyone is saying, is this:
Using Quicken to get a bonus action cast is not the best idea. It will burn through your sorcery points too quickly. There are better ways to get the ability to cast True Strike and still get a weapon attack in than using Quicken.
The only way that works fairly well is for a build that is primarily a sorcerer. With only a few sorc levels, it won't work as well.

[Rysto]

EK 7 / AT 13
Attack, bonus action from War Magic to cast True Strike.
Next round you have advantage, and you do it again.
The only time you don't have advantage is on the first round.

Unless you have disadvantage or are fighting solo, you'd be much better off to cast a melee cantrip rather than True Strike.

[DivisibleByZero]

Unless you have disadvantage or are fighting solo, you'd be much better off to cast a melee cantrip rather than True Strike.

Well, to be fair, you'd be much better off not wasting a cantrip known on True Strike in the first place. But that's what this thread is about.

[Specter]

While True Strike is, indeed, a pile of hot garbage, Rogue/Sorcerer can work fantastically. After you grab some rogue levels (probably 5), you can start on your sorcery. With Draconic origin, you get right off the bat +1AC, +1HP every level and the spells you want. When it comes to metamagic, you can take Twinned and Subtle (Quickened is good, but your bonus actions will be busy with Cunning Action).

Subtle is great for general trickery, and also to avoid anyone counterspelling your stuff. Twinned is always good on stuff like Haste, but the true charm is when you get Magical Ambush later on, and make two people save with disadvantage against the same debuff. With that, basic stuff like Earthbind, Reduce and Suggestion become fearful spells. As a final build, Arcane Trickster 11/Sorcerer 9 is aces.

[bid]

Basic combat concept is you cast Quickened True Strike for advantage, then use it to Sneak Attack every turn. You only need Dex, Con and Cha (which has synergy with skills) and you can improve on spell versatility and spell slots with AT. Thoughts?
Might as well twin BB for half the SP cost. Take swashbuckler if you can't get advantage often enough.

[Drackolus]

Greater Invisibility, however, gives you constant advantage.
Other methods include shield master +athletics expertise, or simply cunning action to hide.

[bid]

Other methods include shield master +athletics expertise
You can't BB with shield master, and you can't quicken since it uses your bonus action.

I'm wondering how bad it'd be to allow any of the "on attack action, bonus action" to work with dash / disengage et al.

[King539]

Or do the easy thing: Get an owl familiar.

[Drackolus]

You can't BB with shield master, and you can't quicken since it uses your bonus action.

I'm wondering how bad it'd be to allow any of the "on attack action, bonus action" to work with dash / disengage et al.

Sorry, was going under the assumption that the whole point of going sorc was for the advantage. If the goal was to make a sorcerer/rogue be viable, I'd probably just suggest shadow sorcerer and be done with it. Same cheese as the darkness warlock.

[skaddix]

I mean two level dip for Cunning Action is nice....But Sorcerer's do burn their bonus action a lot...so I am not sure.

Honestly, I rather fall back on spamming Eldritch Blast with a 2 lvl dip into Warlock.

[Arkhios]

EK 7 / AT 13
Attack, bonus action from War Magic to cast True Strike.
Next round you have advantage, and you do it again.
The only time you don't have advantage is on the first round.

I was just looking at Arcane Trickster and when I saw their 13th level feature again, it reminded me of your post. The suggested divide (EK 7/AT 13) wouldn't have to use True Strike, because they could use Mage Hand with Versatile Trickster as a bonus action to give advantage on their attack rolls (yes, in plural) against one target until the end of that turn.

However, EK/AT would benefit from True Strike for a good long while before they could do that, of course.

[DivisibleByZero]

I was just looking at Arcane Trickster and when I saw their 13th level feature again, it reminded me of your post. The suggested divide (EK 7/AT 13) wouldn't have to use True Strike, because they could use Mage Hand with Versatile Trickster as a bonus action to give advantage on their attack rolls (yes, in plural) against one target until the end of that turn.

However, EK/AT would benefit from True Strike for a good long while before they could do that, of course.

Right.
That 13th rogue level isn't for it's subclass ability. It's nice and all, but who really expects to get to 20th level? If you do get there, the choice is between an extra d6 sneak attack and an ASI. But you're a rogue/fighter. You have enough ASIs. So the extra d6 sneak attack wins. The fact that you now get advantage for both of your attacks, should you choose to take two, is just gravy.

[joaber]

I like the idea of AT9/sorc11. Quick a spell and any enimy save with desadvantage if you're hidden, and you can use your action to attack, mass suggestion, confusion, hold person, and so looks amazing when all enemies save with desadvantage. The sad part is that you should dump int, and invest in Cha, so this build only start to work at lvl 12. But you can twin booming blade until that.

[Specter]

I like the idea of AT9/sorc11. Quick a spell and any enimy save with desadvantage if you're hidden, and you can use your action to attack, mass suggestion, confusion, hold person, and so looks amazing when all enemies save with desadvantage. The sad part is that you should dump int, and invest in Cha, so this build only start to work at lvl 12. But you can twin booming blade until that.

Oh yeah, there's that. But using standard I guess you could try 8/16/12/14/10/16 on a Half-Elf and still get the best of both worlds.

[joaber]

Oh yeah, there's that. But using standard I guess you could try 8/16/12/14/10/16 on a Half-Elf and still get the best of both worlds.

True, and you probably don't need to get Cha 20 when enemies save with desadvantage. You can pick some good non save spells from AT list

[Zman]

I've been running a Fighter/Sorcerer and a similar concept could work.

Booming Blade is your bread and butter, quickening it gives you a second chance for sneak attack. Chat at 16 is plenty higher, bump dex first, the New cha.

Quickened Blurr, Mirror Image, and shield make you shockingly hardy. And aC is 13+ Dex so you're golden. Quickened Haste is amazing too.

[Biggstick]

If you're going with the Sorcerer multiclass, you definitely want to go Swashbuckler. Being able to really take advantage of that free advantage and disengage on attacks will open up your damage output and allow you a bit more freedom with your bonus action.

Something that I don't recall seeing answered in this thread is your desire for one class over the other. Is there a certain something you're looking for at a certain point for each class?

Until that answer is provided, I'll just throw out a cool idea that I'm utilizing in a Storm King's Thunder game.

Half Elf. Bounty Hunter background.
16 Dex, 16 Cha, etc etc.
Level 4 ASI was +2 Dex.
Started out Rogue (Swashbuckler 5).
Just picked up my first Sorcerer (Draconic) level and all my sweet sweet melee cantrips (GFB, BB, Prestidigitation, and Firebolt)

I'll be going 2 more levels of Sorcerer for level 2 spells and Quicken/Subtle. Subtle will be for using Detect Thoughts without others noticing, but Quicken is for damage.

"But you'll already be using your bonus action!"

Not as often as you think. Sure, I'll be using Dash quite a bit with it, but if I'm not Dashing, I won't have much for it. The reason I want Quicken is so I can Quicken a GFB or BB (whichever is more applicable) and then use my action to Ready the casting of BB/GFB for if the enemy does anything (which pretty much guarentees a free reaction attack). This is a bit riskier in terms of staying in an enemies face, but if I want to burst someone with multiple turns worth of Sneak attack dice and GFB/BB damage, I can do it. I won't be spending my SP on many spells, and my focus with SP is to be able to burst or cast quietly. I can easily convert first level spells to SP (total of 8 SP in there with first level spells, which is 4 Quickened spells).

Anyways, after my third level of Sorcerer, I'll head back to Rogue. The campaign ends somewhere around 10th to 11th level, and I'll be Rogue 7-8//Sorcerer 3. I'll have just picked up Evasion and/or my final +2 into Dexterity. I'll have free magic armor from the Draconic Resilience and the ability to read the thoughts of most creatures I interact with (I took Giant as a language, and have quite a few other languages due to race and background modifications). It's a fun Rogue build with just the right amount of magic to it that is completely synergistic.
As for your initial question, other folks have already answered that you can't cast True Strike and utilize it on the same turn. The synergy between Rogue and Sorcerer is definitely there though. Either way you slice it as a Rogue with a Sorcerer dip or a Sorcerer with a Rogue dip. You'll enjoy mixing these two classes together.

[bid]

The reason I want Quicken is so I can Quicken a GFB or BB (whichever is more applicable) and then use my action to Ready the casting of BB/GFB for if the enemy does anything (which pretty much guarentees a free reaction attack). This is a bit riskier in terms of staying in an enemies face, but if I want to burst someone with multiple turns worth of Sneak attack dice and GFB/BB damage, I can do it. I won't be spending my SP on many spells, and my focus with SP is to be able to burst or cast quietly. I can easily convert first level spells to SP (total of 8 SP in there with first level spells, which is 4 Quickened spells).
2 Quickened spells only. It takes 2 SP to create a 1st slot, but you only get 1 SP going the other way.
You are limited to 3 SP and can only do it every other turn (bonus action to quicken, bonus action to convert).
You cannot use concentration spells, as you must use it on the readied GFB/BB.

So you're spending a 2nd slot to add 4d6 SA damage, not bad but more costly than shown.

[Biggstick]

2 Quickened spells only. It takes 2 SP to create a 1st slot, but you only get 1 SP going the other way.
You are limited to 3 SP and can only do it every other turn (bonus action to quicken, bonus action to convert).
You cannot use concentration spells, as you must use it on the readied GFB/BB.

So you're spending a 2nd slot to add 4d6 SA damage, not bad but more costly than shown.

Ahh, what an oversight!

Not too much of a difference though, as this is really only for the turns where I want to burst as it is. Thanks for the heads up though!

[Corran]

Until that answer is provided, I'll just throw out a cool idea that I'm utilizing in a Storm King's Thunder game.

Half Elf. Bounty Hunter background.
16 Dex, 16 Cha, etc etc.
Level 4 ASI was +2 Dex.
Started out Rogue (Swashbuckler 5).
Just picked up my first Sorcerer (Draconic) level and all my sweet sweet melee cantrips (GFB, BB, Prestidigitation, and Firebolt)

I'll be going 2 more levels of Sorcerer for level 2 spells and Quicken/Subtle. Subtle will be for using Detect Thoughts without others noticing, but Quicken is for damage.

"But you'll already be using your bonus action!"

Not as often as you think. Sure, I'll be using Dash quite a bit with it, but if I'm not Dashing, I won't have much for it. The reason I want Quicken is so I can Quicken a GFB or BB (whichever is more applicable) and then use my action to Ready the casting of BB/GFB for if the enemy does anything (which pretty much guarentees a free reaction attack). This is a bit riskier in terms of staying in an enemies face, but if I want to burst someone with multiple turns worth of Sneak attack dice and GFB/BB damage, I can do it. I won't be spending my SP on many spells, and my focus with SP is to be able to burst or cast quietly. I can easily convert first level spells to SP (total of 8 SP in there with first level spells, which is 4 Quickened spells).

Anyways, after my third level of Sorcerer, I'll head back to Rogue. The campaign ends somewhere around 10th to 11th level, and I'll be Rogue 7-8//Sorcerer 3. I'll have just picked up Evasion and/or my final +2 into Dexterity. I'll have free magic armor from the Draconic Resilience and the ability to read the thoughts of most creatures I interact with (I took Giant as a language, and have quite a few other languages due to race and background modifications). It's a fun Rogue build with just the right amount of magic to it that is completely synergistic.

I am a bit surprised that you did not include twinned. For twinned BB that is. Great on a rogue, even more so for a swashbuckler I think, since if you are engaged by 2 enemies, you can twin BB so that you can move away without using cunning action (due SB and because you attacked both of them).
Both quicken and subtle are good, but I always though that twinned is the best one on a rogue (for twinned BB, which also means 2 chances to sneak attack among what I mentioned previously).

[Biggstick]

I am a bit surprised that you did not include twinned. For twinned BB that is. Great on a rogue, even more so for a swashbuckler I think, since if you are engaged by 2 enemies, you can twin BB so that you can move away without using cunning action (due SB and because you attacked both of them).
Both quicken and subtle are good, but I always though that twinned is the best one on a rogue (for twinned BB, which also means 2 chances to sneak attack among what I mentioned previously).

I'll agree Twinned is better if you're absolutely trying to get the most bang for buck throughout the duration of the day.

Having the option to attempt a nova round as a Rogue is what's appealing to me is all. Getting two potential sneak attack turns off plus the cantrips damage is sure to put a hurting on a single opponent.

[Arkhios]

Sorry for siderailing from OP, but this actually is related with the title of this topic:

In the game I'm the DM, my better half plays a rogue, and in another game, she has a sorcerer (I play in that one too, but obviously I'm not the DM in that game :smallbiggrin:).
She said recently that she might want to multiclass into a rogue with her sorcerer, finding out how much more she likes to play as a rogue. I mentioned her the possibility of Arcane Trickster multiclass, purely because it would have the least impact on the spellcasting progression she has from sorcerer.

Now, we're at 4th level at the moment, and I was wondering should she go into rogue immediately as soon as we get to 5th character level, should she wait for a little longer to get 3rd level spells, or should she/we petition our DM to allow a full rebuild for her character to make an Arcane Trickster immediately. Any opinions? There's one more thing; she'd like to keep Magic Missiles if at all possible (as a full Arcane Trickster it sure would be, though her spell slot levels would suffer a bit from what they are now).

[DivisibleByZero]

I'd petition for a respec.
AL allows it in those early levels, so I don't see why another DM wouldn't.

[Arkhios]

Welp, his answer was quite strict "no rebuilds". I kinda knew he was going to answer like that. How would you suggest going from here?

[Specter]

Welp, his answer was quite strict "no rebuilds". I kinda knew he was going to answer like that. How would you suggest going from here?

What kind of Sorcerer is she? Bevause it will make level 6 immediately desirable or not.

In any case, you can't go wrong going Sorcerer 5, then Arcane Trickster 3, then picking up what feels more adequate from there.

[Arkhios]

What kind of Sorcerer is she? Bevause it will make level 6 immediately desirable or not.

In any case, you can't go wrong going Sorcerer 5, then Arcane Trickster 3, then picking up what feels more adequate from there.

Storm Sorcerer. Stats were divided as follows (probably can't change their order either): str 8, dex 14, con 12, int 10, wis 14, cha 16

[bid]

Not too much of a difference though, as this is really only for the turns where I want to burst as it is. Thanks for the heads up though!
Yeah, it works great for nova.

[Drackolus]

Don't try twinned bb until you know how your dm rules that, especially in conjunction with sneak attack. The wording is ambiguous and I don't think there is an official ruling on it.

[Specter]

Storm Sorcerer. Stats were divided as follows (probably can't change their order either): str 8, dex 14, con 12, int 10, wis 14, cha 16

I'd wait. Heart of the Storm is nice, but you already have good reactions and Uncanny Dodge is even better.