Running Sunless Citadel, need advice

[Draco4472]

I intend to run Sunless Citadel from Tales from the Yawning Portal for a group of three very soon, a barbarian, bard, and wizard.

Any advice on balancing encounters, given only the one martial PC,or otherwise running this adventure?

[BoutsofInsanity]

Be Smart.

You can change things around, the dungeons are guidelines. If you see something requiring arcana or some skill they couldn't use, change it around so it uses some other skill or abiltiy they could reasonably have. If you see some things that they can't do, change it so that it can be defeated by them.

You can also, if you have a badass player have that guy run two characters. Some people can do this, some people can't.

By no means remove the challenge. But don't make the game impossible.

[DanyBallon]

I intend to run Sunless Citadel from Tales from the Yawning Portal for a group of three very soon, a barbarian, bard, and wizard.

Any advice on balancing encounters, given only the one martial PC,or otherwise running this adventure?

I believe your party can be fine as is, since the party can use diplomacy to avoid figthing the kobolds and will later free an cleric NPC. By using good tactics they may manage to go through the goblins quite easily. The "boss" fight might be more hard, but it's a beginner module so it's far from OP. On the other hand, if your party decide to go murder hobo, then they may need you to adjust the encounters.

[KorvinStarmast]

On the other hand, if your party decide to go murder hobo, then they may need you to adjust the encounters. Or maybe they just die due to biting off more than they can chew. One is not required to aid and abet murder hoboism. :smallbiggrin:

[DanyBallon]

Or maybe they just die due to biting off more than they can chew. One is not required to aid and abet murder hoboism. :smallbiggrin:

I agree with you, but I try to refrain from speaking out load such (heretic) ideas on these forums by fear of being antagonized for not putting forward the players :smalltongue:

[Armored Walrus]

I've read through that module. There are a lot of scattered single giant rat encounters, but not many difficult ones unless you do something to aggro all the guards on you at once. Every boss fight but the last can be diplomanced, and remember, the bosses don't necessarily want to kill the PCs if they screw up - pretty sure both races in the dungeon are slavers. So, yeah, if you don't let the PCs win every fight you're going to go off script, but you won't destroy the characters.

If I were running it, I'd just not spring some of the traps if it looked like the PC's resources were being drained too fast,and the module itself does state that the PCs should be able to leave the dungeon for a long rest at some point.

Also it depends if these are level 1 characters but veteran players, or if they are level 1 because they've never D&D'd before.

[KorvinStarmast]

I agree with you, but I try to refrain from speaking out load such (heretic) ideas on these forums by fear of being antagonized for not putting forward the players :smalltongue: What 5e seems to have done is return the swinginess/lethality of earlier editions, albeit tempered by the death saving throw using precious spells to let you get up and flee once downed.

If the chance of character death, or at least going down during combat, is not real, the game loses some of its excitement/flavor. It is still being pro player to have encounters where the best option is "GTFO, this is a bit much for us" since that presents the risk/reward decision.

[DanyBallon]

What 5e seems to have done is return the swinginess/lethality of earlier editions, albeit tempered by the death saving throw using precious spells to let you get up and flee once downed.

If the chance of character death, or at least going down during combat, is not real, the game loses some of its excitement/flavor. It is still being pro player to have encounters where the best option is "GTFO, this is a bit much for us" since that presents the risk/reward decision.

I completely agree, but there seems to be a generation of players that expect their characters to survive no matter how they act in game... I don't know if it's due to 3.P where you invest so much time in character creation that you don't want your character to die, or from CRPGs and MMOs where dying is only a setback...

[Draco4472]

Also it depends if these are level 1 characters but veteran players, or if they are level 1 because they've never D&D'd before.

The person playing the Bard is experienced, whereas this is the Barbarian's third game and the Wizard's first. I'm starting them at 1 as two are still new to the game, and so the more experienced player can help the newcomers without them being overwhelmed by their options and class features. In addition, the experienced player has wanted to play a Bard for some time anyway, and lept at the chance.

[KorvinStarmast]

I completely agree, but there seems to be a generation of players that expect their characters to survive no matter how they act in game... I don't know if it's due to 3.P where you invest so much time in character creation that you don't want your character to die, or from CRPGs and MMOs where dying is only a setback...
I suspect it is as much the influence of CRPGs and MMOs as anything else. But I can't prove it .

[Blue Duke]

and protect Meepo at all costs for he is the future God of all Kobold kind, simply suffering currently before his ascension !


what.....we got stuck playing sunless citadel.....four times, finished it twice. the ONLY good thing about it was Meepo ! DONT MURDER MEEPO!

[Armored Walrus]

The person playing the Bard is experienced...

I think you should be able to pretty much run it as is then. With liberal allowances for short rests, probably.

[HumanSuit]

My group ran this with a Fighter, Cleric, and Wizard. We definitely had trouble. We didn't rest as much as we should have, and the encounters weighed pretty heavy on us. We checked every nook and cranny on our way through, which helped a lot. We still almost wiped a few times. In my experience, it's not meant to be handled like a regular campaign. Don't expect a few fights with hard boss at the end. Take the encounters as they come, and when you have a moment between them, discus what the best course of action should be. There's no telling whats on the other side of that door sometimes.

Always ask yourself, "Are we prepared for what's next?" And if you hesitate a little... Take a rest.