OOTS #1070 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Forikroder]

i mean it IS julios ship

[Mariel Dragon]

That could've gone worse, I suppose.

[t209]

Pow! Now that's a way for an update.
(Sure hope it didn't end with Elan cutting a vital rope.)

[Eragon123]

Even with the sword laying right next to him, Roy STILL doesn't pick up the sword!!! :smallfurious:

[Zenzis]

Initially I thought it as some classic blunder made by Elan that would cause yet another problem. Then I remembered what ship it is.

[Nilehus]

Elan was helpful in combat without telling an awful pun? It really IS the end of the world.

Nice to see how far he's come.

[khadgar567]

elan makes nice save and Roy decides to go monk on ice giant looks like a good comic but that save kinda clutch

[Keltest]

Given that this is Julio's ship, Elan is probably right.

[S@tanicoaldo]

Sometimes I forget that Roy has the strength of a giant.

[Cazero]

Hi-three.
Because using your touch spells normally is too boring for a swordman as dashing as you are.

[Chei]

This is my favorite page in a long, long time.

[HandofShadows]

LOL. That's great on many levels. :smallcool:

[Syncrogti]

Hi-three.
Because using your touch spells normally is too boring for a swordman as dashing as you are.

Is it supposed to be "Hi There"? I don't understand.

EDIT: oh, instead of "high Five", ok. Cuz three fingers. I think the word "high" instead of "hi" would have helped a little.

[Iruka]

i mean it IS julios ship

He has probably like quadruple redundancy on all ropes.

[ShinigamiKenji]

I didn't really expect Elan to succeed in healing Roy while swinging in a rope with only his feet, when it took 11 Mendings to fix the balloon. Then I realized that, since it would be awesome, Elan's chance of succeeding was quite high, being a Bard/Dashing Swordsman and all.

The hi-three was the icing on the cake.

[Starknight62040]

Awesome comic! Glad to see that Elan's use of dramatic training is still in force.

[Grand Arbiter]

:elan:=AWESOME!!!

[Bluepaw]

Hi-three! How delightful :smallbiggrin:

Elan is getting better and better at playing to his strengths, which are, as it turns out, substantial... (including, apparently, being so dashing as to conjure a rapier out of thin air...)

[Herr Doktor]

Woo-Hoo! Elan for the save! Bards rock!

[Shining Wrath]

High-three. :smallbiggrin:

Never change, Elan. Never change. Sometimes it is better to be lucky and heroic than smart.

[Goblin_Priest]

Didn't see that coming!

[Joe the Rat]

hi-three!
:smallbiggrin:

So the entire sequence was just a set up so Roy could punch the giant in the face?

[Kalmageddon]

And as soon as Roy gets healed I hear this tune (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jcT08MqoU) in my mind. :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

Even with the sword laying right next to him, Roy STILL doesn't pick up the sword!!! :smallfurious:

He does on the last panel. He had to deal with a charging giantess first.

[stsasser]

Ropes! Huh! What else are they good for? :smallbiggrin:

[Mad Humanist]

Why does the comic have the wrong copyright date?

[Ivrytwr]

Hi-Three!
And of course, it is for heroic swinging!
Thanks Giant.

[Arkku]

Hi-three, Oddly Effective Elan!

[Doug Lampert]

Initially I thought it as some classic blunder made by Elan that would cause yet another problem. Then I remembered what ship it is.

Yep, that's a dashing swordsman on the Mechane, OF COURSE the ropes are there to cut and swing on.

They may serve some other (secondary) purpose, but cutting a rope to swing on is probably the primary purpose when all's said and done. They need to be able to arrive in the nick of time and swing into the dentist's office or whatever.

[xroads]

Pow! Now that's a way for an update.
(Sure hope it didn't end with Elan cutting a vital rope.)

Hopefully not. But the ship is already flying on a wing & a prayer. So it's not like Elan could of made it a lot worst anyways.

[Arkku]

Ropes! Huh! What else are they good for?

Ropes, huh, yeah
What are they good for?
Heroically swinging
Say it again, why'all

[Hamste]

I didn't really expect Elan to succeed in healing Roy while swinging in a rope with only his feet, when it took 11 Mendings to fix the balloon. Then I realized that, since it would be awesome, Elan's chance of succeeding was quite high, being a Bard/Dashing Swordsman and all.

The hi-three was the icing on the cake.

Yeah, dashing swordsman probably gives bonuses to concentration as long as you are doing something awesome/swinging on a rope. If only Elan had to have an fight in the rigging, would have saved so much time on concentration checks.

[factotum]

Yeah, dashing swordsman probably gives bonuses to concentration as long as you are doing something awesome/swinging on a rope. If only Elan had to have an fight in the rigging, would have saved so much time on concentration checks.

Dashing Swordsman isn't really a magic-focused class as far as we can tell, so I doubt it has anything to do with Elan suddenly getting good at Concentration checks.

[Quibblicious]

:elan:=AWESOME!!!

He's a Bard.

They rock.

Q,
Bard.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Dashing Swordsman isn't really a magic-focused class as far as we can tell, so I doubt it has anything to do with Elan suddenly getting good at Concentration checks.

No, but it probably gives a generic untyped CHA-scaled bonus to any skill check done while swinging, to help with the inevitable swing from the chandelier moments.

GW

[WindStruck]

Haha, this strip just reminded me of something.

Will we now get a fight like the classic 1960's Batman series? :smallbiggrin:

POW! BANG! BIFF! KAPOW!

[Thrillhouse]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

[Tiltowait]

First we saw the "Cleric's Feather Fall", now we're seeing the "Bard's Power Attack" :smallbiggrin:

[Sermil]

Actually, I'm glad Elan didn't go full dashing swordsman. A real dashing swordsman would have fought the giantess himself (and then gotten pounded). Elan is smart(!) enough to realize that healing Roy is the better tactical move.

I really thought he was going to swoop in and fight the giantess for a moment there...

[Shining Wrath]

No, but it probably gives a generic untyped CHA-scaled bonus to any skill check done while swinging, to help with the inevitable swing from the chandelier moments.

GW

I agree. And if "hi-three" is counted as a pun, there's another bonus, also probably untyped. Adding twice Elan's charisma modifier is a pretty serious boost.

[Peelee]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

Well, I did really enjoy the face she made when getting punched. Man, talk about a sentence I never thought I'd write....

[Shining Wrath]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

Are you suggesting she's going down like a tall iced tea?

[Shining Wrath]

Ropes, huh, yeah
What are they good for?
Heroically swinging
Say it again, why'all

Ropes I despise
Except when used to save Roy's life


Actually, kindly note the strip title. Only half of them are.

[KorvinStarmast]

Sometimes it is better to be lucky and heroic than smart. Elan, thanks to Julio's mentoring.

No, but it probably gives a generic untyped CHA-scaled bonus to any skill check done while swinging, to help with the inevitable swing from the chandelier moments.
Heck yeah.

I really thought he was going to swoop in and fight the giantess for a moment there... As did I, which made the actual sequence that much more enjoyable. (And 'hi three' got a RL chuckle out of me). Elan's high dex, hanging by his feet as he lays his heal spell onto Roy ... goodness!

PS: I rolled a 1 (surprise) at Roy's choice to punch the giantess in the face, but someone up there mentioned the belt of giant strength so I recalibrated that to "aha, makes sense."

Artwork continues to please. As for closing lines
"I just assumed they were only there for heroic swinging" made me grin. As above, it's Julio's ship. :smallbiggrin:

[Seto]

So... dashing of him.

Also, hi-three! That's actually hilarious :smallbiggrin:

[Crusher]

High Three! LOL!

[Ironsmith]

I wouldn't be surprised if that counted as catching the giantess flat-footed... I mean, I don't think she would ever see "little guy that only comes up to my kneecaps punching me in the face" coming.

Come to think of it, as long as Roy has the appropriate feats, that might be among the smartest ways to fight her... given that he's already lost his sword twice in this fight, it seems a waste to keep using it.

[GreatWyrmGold]

He does on the last panel. He had to deal with a charging giantess first.
Roy has his priorities straight. Hit the giant, then grab the thing that lets you hit it good.
...Okay, but it makes sense in this case.




Hi-three, Oddly Effective Elan!
Who's use-impaired now?

[Snails]

I didn't really expect Elan to succeed in healing Roy while swinging in a rope with only his feet, when it took 11 Mendings to fix the balloon. Then I realized that, since it would be awesome, Elan's chance of succeeding was quite high, being a Bard/Dashing Swordsman and all.

At first, I, too, was surprised that Elan took eleven attempts. Isn't he likely to succeed by blind luck well before then, even if he has no ranks in Concentration?

I think the answer is that, for Elan, he actually get negatives for this kind of thing. I think that Elan takes an RPing penalty for some checks into order to potentially earn extra big Dashing bonuses when in the spotlight. (Before he met Julio, he did the same RPing, but did not get any future bonuses out of it.)

[SaintRidley]

It definitely left a mark, which means Roy probably has Improved Unarmed Strike as one of his feats.

[Snails]

I wouldn't be surprised if that counted as catching the giantess flat-footed... I mean, I don't think she would ever see "little guy that only comes up to my kneecaps punching me in the face" coming.

I think the situation gives a free Feint (Bluff) with big Circumstance bonuses, 'cuz giants are predisposed to think that littler creatures are nearly harmless. Now this giantess knows that Roy is potentially dangerous, but thought he was cut down to size when he lost his real sword.

[ref]

Elan does something awesome and immediately shows us he's Elan after all. But yeah. Great page. :)

[warmachine]

This looks like Rule of Cool overriding Logic. It's unlikely Elan could make an INT check to cut the correct rope but a bard swinging down, with rapier in hand, to save a colleague in a high stakes battle, with a hi-three, is cool.

The trouble with D&D 3.5 is its rules describe everything in mechanical terms. A DM might insist on an INT check to cut the correct rope, or a DEX check to hi-three but that's not cool for a high CHA character. Someone needs to create a mechanic so the more charismatic the PC, the more often the player can say "I succeed at the task because it'll look cool!"

[GreatWyrmGold]

Now this giantess knows that Roy is potentially dangerous, but thought he was cut down to size when he lost his real sword.
Pun intended?

[Murk]

Someone needs to create a mechanic so the more charismatic the PC, the more often the player can say "I succeed at the task because it'll look cool!"

That mechanic is called The Dashing Swordsman and Elan is using it! :smalltongue:

[Shining Wrath]

This looks like Rule of Cool overriding Logic. It's unlikely Elan could make an INT check to cut the correct rope but a bard swinging down, with rapier in hand, to save a colleague in a high stakes battle, with a hi-three, is cool.

The trouble with D&D 3.5 is its rules describe everything in mechanical terms. A DM might insist on an INT check to cut the correct rope, or a DEX check to hi-three but that's not cool for a high CHA character. Someone needs to create a mechanic so the more charismatic the PC, the more often the player can say "I succeed at the task because it'll look cool!"

Remember the difference between arcane casters.

Sorcerer: Doesn't just do magic, but is innately magical because of ancestry.
Wizard: Learns all they need to know about magic.
Warlock: has magical knowledge directly inserted into their brain by Someone with an agenda
Bard: does magic because they are just that cool
Artificer: I make the magical things

[Grey Watcher]

Even with the sword laying right next to him, Roy STILL doesn't pick up the sword!!! :smallfurious:

Before either he or Elan got Giant Axe to the Face'd, 3E action economy says Roy could've done two of three things: stand up, attack, pick up sword. Add in that choosing to leave out "stand up" would've resulted in I-forget-what kind of crazy penalties to the attack, I think he made the right call. (And, as others have pointed out, he is leaning over to pick up the sword in the last panel.)

Plus, if the universe conspires to let you uppercut a frost giant, I think that's something you just gotta go for.

[Nate the Snake]

Plus, if the universe conspires to let you uppercut a frost giant, I think that's something you just gotta go for.

:belkar: "Actually, I may punch you in the face anyway, just for the novelty of being able to reach." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0294.html)

[Peelee]

Remember the difference between arcane casters.

Sorcerer: Doesn't just do magic, but is innately magical because of ancestry.


Don't forget the component pouch for their innate magic. Their power is in their blood. And also in their required bat guano.

[Psyren]

Pow! Now that's a way for an update.
(Sure hope it didn't end with Elan cutting a vital rope.)

Probably not, judging by the comic title. This is the Mechane we're talking about.


And as soon as Roy gets healed I hear this tune (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_jcT08MqoU) in my mind. :smallbiggrin:

I thought I was the only one! :smallbiggrin:

[kenlund]

It's great how Elan can now use a spell like healing so much more effectively than a Bard illusion spell which would have probably been his action before being trained by Julio in the ways of the Dashing Swordsman.

I wonder if something like Lesser Confusion would work on the frost giant? Elan has had some success with that spell in the past.

[CoffeeIncluded]

This is the mechane. They're schrodingers ropes.

[hector212121]

The right word is Chekov's Rope.

Saying it's Schrodinger's Rope means that it's between two states.

[JumboWheat01]

So it took 11 tries to pass a concentration check to cast Mending, but one try to cut a rope, swing on said rope, glare at a giant, cast Cure Critical Wounds on someone as you swing by and totally stick the landing. There must've been so many checks that were just passed with a natural 20.

Elan, you've gained quite a lot of badassery points just now.

[Kish]

The right word is Chekov's Rope.

Saying it's Schrodinger's Rope means that it's between two states.
I believe that's what she means, that the ropes are vital to the ship's functioning unless a Dashing Swordsman cuts one, in which case that one was only for heroic swinging.

I'm less than clear on what you're assuming she meant actually (that we should have known Elan would cut a rope as soon as we saw them? That doesn't make any sense).

[TheNecrocomicon]

Well, I hope that doesn't prove structurally or mechanically critical later on, or give Andi another thing to blame if/when the Mechane crash-lands.

On the other hand -- literally -- awesome help by Elan and counterattack by Roy. I'm pretty sure the Order will get out of this eventually, and this was a good place to start on actually improving the situation for once.

[Braininthejar2]

Wait... that charge was interrupted. Long enough for the whole panel of talking.

Did Roy just floor a frost giant with a punch?

[Killer Angel]

Yeah, if we consider who's the owner of the ship, it wasn't a baseless assumpion. :smallbiggrin:

[IDrankWHAT]

I'm beginning to think the Mechane has it's own time/space continuum subspace. Certainly it could be moving faster than everything else (IE: Hammy from Over The Hedge after he drinks Red Bull or Quicksilver from Avengers/X-Men.) For this many things to happen and STILL going to get there on time? Ooooooooooor I could be overthinking it like I usually do and just relax for Mystery Science Thea.....oh no wait. Wrong genre!

[137beth]

Now we can finally argue about the actions of someone other than Andi!

[Peelee]

Now we can finally argue about the actions of someone other than Andi!

So, how 'bout that Andi?

[SilverCacaobean]

Awesome update! Loved every panel.
Oh, also holy **** Elan has come a long way!

[Riftwolf]

Dashing Swordsman ability; add your DS level and charisma bonus to your concentration check if what you're doing can be described as 'daring-do'.

[Snails]

Given it is Julio's ship, maybe it counts as a magic item that someone with Dashing Swordsman class levels can use?

[Kish]

Well, I hope that doesn't prove structurally or mechanically critical later on, or give Andi another thing to blame if/when the Mechane crash-lands.
The wishes of certain forumites aside, I think we're way past the point where anyone in the comic except Andi cares what Andi blames for things, and similarly far past the point of Andi's blaming people other than herself (primarily Bandana) having anything to do with evidence.

[pendell]

I believe that's what she means, that the ropes are vital to the ship's functioning unless a Dashing Swordsman cuts one, in which case that one was only for heroic swinging.

I'm less than clear on what you're assuming she meant actually (that we should have known Elan would cut a rope as soon as we saw them? That doesn't make any sense).

Hooray , an update!

Technically, we don't know that the rope was safe to cut. For all we know, the Mechane will crash to earth in a few strips because that rope was cut.

But at least we've solved the immediate problem; Roy is back on his feet and, given the absence of damage marks, appears to be at near-full HP. He should be able to win this fight even with a cutlass, though it will probably cost him some HP to do so.

Unless the Giantess also has a healing item of some kind, of course.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Shining Wrath]

Right now Andi is probably complaining that Elan hurt her ship by cutting a rope.

Hides beneath desk

[JoeyTheNeko]

yes, as others have said this is Julios ship. so yes, half probably are.

[Debatra]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!
http://i.imgur.com/afxLmAb.jpg

[happycrow]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

They're dialoguing, and frozen conflicts such as this one tend to move at glacial pace....

[Quibblicious]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

That's a huge challenge.

Q

[Shining Wrath]

The giant needs to chill out and remember the fate of the Titanic.

[gooddragon1]

I only have one thing to say for now: SHORYUKEN!

[Wysper]

This is probably the most Badass thing that Elan has ever done. Swinging on a rope, hanging by his LEGS, to massively heal an ally.

[Lombard]

Ha. Can't decide if Elan is more Julio's protege or Tarquin's son in that moment.

[dtilque]

Elan is getting better and better at playing to his strengths, which are, as it turns out, substantial... (including, apparently, being so dashing as to conjure a rapier out of thin air...)

That's the Chaos sabre that Julio gave him. And he had it in his scabbard all along. Elan's sword is never visible when sheathed.

Some time back, perhaps about 9 or 10 strips ago, I suggested that when Elan was done fixing the gas bag, he would find a handy rope and swoop down to the poop deck. I figured that since this was Julio's ship, there would be such handy ropes all over. I guess I was right, except for the destination of his swoop.

[PH7]

Panel 3, the Indiana Jones theme started playing in my head.

Elan would be great in Cirque du Soleil.

[Balance]

At first, I, too, was surprised that Elan took eleven attempts. Isn't he likely to succeed by blind luck well before then, even if he has no ranks in Concentration?

I think the answer is that, for Elan, he actually get negatives for this kind of thing. I think that Elan takes an RPing penalty for some checks into order to potentially earn extra big Dashing bonuses when in the spotlight. (Before he met Julio, he did the same RPing, but did not get any future bonuses out of it.)
In order to arrive at the dramatically appropriate moment, Elan had to be delayed. Therefore, he automatically failed enough checks so that he arrived just in the nick of time.

Mechanically, if I were implementing this, I'd probably go with something like an Edge or Moxie pool, only charged by forfeiting actions. Each round of automatic failure taken in a stress situation gets you a point. The points can be spent to modify die rolls--which is generally what Edge and Moxie do in their respective systems. They can additionally be spent on Fortuitous Arrivals, like in the Fate system, but at a cost of 1 point per full round of movement, provided the destination is a place where they can do something dramatic. Using the pool triggers a Cinematic Sequence, which consists of a series of move actions and one full round of dramatic action; at the end of a Sequence or at the end of the scene/combat, the pool is emptied, even if not all points have been spent.

So, Elan would have banked 11 Drama points, spent probably 2 on movement to reach Roy, then maybe 7 to buy an automatic success on his Concentration check. That leaves him 2 to add to his Dex check or buy a re-roll. If he makes the Dex check naturally, and doesn't use them for anything else, those points disappear at the beginning of his next round.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The right word is Chekov's Rope.

Saying it's Schrodinger's Rope means that it's between two states.

Actually, it's both.

As a Schrodinger's Rope, it exists simultaneously in the twin states of Vital Structural Support and Only There For Cool Swinging Moves. Which state the rope resolves into depends on who cuts it.

As a Chekov's Rope, it is there to be swung on heroically.

[ishnar]

Even with the sword laying right next to him, Roy STILL doesn't pick up the sword!!! :smallfurious:

If he had tried to pick up the sword, the Giant would have gotten a free attack.

[Hardcore]

:smallannoyed: NO

Good joke, and the subtle high-three. However the construction of the comic was horrible. Panel one and three are totally superfluous and just slow down it all.
It also give the impression the artist want to take the reader by the hand in case they don't get it; panel one is clearly there to explain Elans action in pane two. That is fine if the readers didn't read the previous strip here on line, or will not read the previous page in the book. (Highly unlikely events.)
The dumbing down of the giant is a result of this. In order to show how Elan can get to roy in time the giant need to be moved a few steps back (compared to the previous strip), and go -Raaaarrgh! (really? From wit to morosity).
It may be a DnD thing. If the Giant is a barbarian it may need to step back to gather speed if charging, and go -Mooo! I don't know enough of the rules to rule that out (pun intended).
In any case I think the entire scene is made simply to tell a joke, and suffer from that. (even if the joke is good)

[Leisurely]

I hope no one is too attached to this frost giant, because it is essentially impossible for even the slowest wit among us to run out of either ice or giant puns. Elan will be unstoppable.

It's time to put this giant...on ice!

I am attached to this frost giant and I think it's time for everyone to chill. I mean she's pretty cool and seems pretty iceolated as a warrior in frost giant society. I think The Order of the Stick can make a nicer offer.

[Wolv90]

Actually, I'm glad Elan didn't go full dashing swordsman. A real dashing swordsman would have fought the giantess himself (and then gotten pounded). Elan is smart(!) enough to realize that healing Roy is the better tactical move.

I really thought he was going to swoop in and fight the giantess for a moment there...
I think a real Dashing Swordsman would have seduced the giantess.

:elan:"I could state all day in your huge icy eyes"
:redface:*Swoon*

[Shining Wrath]

:smallannoyed: NO

Good joke, and the subtle high-three. However the construction of the comic was horrible. Panel one and three are totally superfluous and just slow down it all.
It also give the impression the artist want to take the reader by the hand in case they don't get it; panel one is clearly there to explain Elans action in pane two. That is fine if the readers didn't read the previous strip here on line, or will not read the previous page in the book. (Highly unlikely events.)
The dumbing down of the giant is a result of this. In order to show how Elan can get to roy in time the giant need to be moved a few steps back (compared to the previous strip), and go -Raaaarrgh! (really? From wit to morosity).
It may be a DnD thing. If the Giant is a barbarian it may need to step back to gather speed if charging, and go -Mooo! I don't know enough of the rules to rule that out (pun intended).
In any case I think the entire scene is made simply to tell a joke, and suffer from that. (even if the joke is good)

Some class / monster features do require you to move at least 10' or 20' in a straight line before use. It's possible she's doing some sort of special attack.

[dtilque]

Actually, it's both.

As a Schrodinger's Rope, it exists simultaneously in the twin states of Vital Structural Support and Only There For Cool Swinging Moves. Which state the rope resolves into depends on who cuts it.

As a Chekov's Rope, it is there to be swung on heroically.

Improvise Swinging Rope is a Dashing Swordman feat. It improves the chances that the rope is not a Vital Structural Support. I'm going to guess Elan has this feat.

Improved Rope Swinging is another DS feat. Casting the spell while swinging is definite evidence Elan has that one. We need to add these to Elan's section of the Geekery thread.

[Ridureyu]

This comic advocates violence against women. I can no longer in good conscience support such abuse.:smallbiggrin:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Elan certianly has proven to be the hero of this particular sequence, assuming he's right about the purpose of the ropes.

[Cazero]

This comic advocates violence against women. I can no longer in good conscience support such abuse.:smallbiggrin:
But not punching her because she's a woman would be sexist, something we cannot support either. Such a predicament.

[ManuelSacha]

Ugh.
In the second panel (and in the previous pages, too, I'm guessing), it looks like the ropes are attached somewhere over Elan's head, and to his left.
Then, when he's swinging, it looks like the rope he was on was attached waaaaay over there on his right... you know, or else he couldn't have been swinging.
It looks wrong.

[SilverCacaobean]

Panel one and three are totally superfluous and just slow down it all.


They are not superfluous at all. Panel one has to be there so that we know exactly what the giant is doing and give us a sense of urgency. Panel three is there to make it look like Elan is on his way to attack the giant and then surprise us with what he actually does. Worked for me.

And she obviously thought she had won so she built momentum for a devastating attack. Why call that dumbing down?

[ThePhantasm]

They are not superfluous at all. Panel one has to be there so that we know exactly what the giant is doing and give us a sense of urgency. Panel three is there to make it look like Elan is on his way to attack the giant and then surprise us with what he actually does. Worked for me.

And she obviously thought she had won so she built momentum for a devastating attack. Why call that dumbing down?

Yeah, exactly. Before saying the art of the strip is "dumbing down" it might be worth stepping back to make sure you've interpreted it right.

Other problems with your critique (Hardcore), would include the misuse of the word "morosity" and the baseless assumption that intelligent or witty creatures can't or don't utter battle cries.

[Shining Wrath]

Yeah, exactly. Before saying the art of the strip is "dumbing down" it might be worth stepping back to make sure you've interpreted it right.

Other problems with your critique (Hardcore), would include the misuse of the word "morosity" and the baseless assumption that intelligent or witty creatures can't or don't utter battle cries.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5Xe2EnUMAEYAhm.jpg

Also, I submit the following for your amusement.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Crom! Count the dead!
Ariel! Ariel! I give you blood and souls!

All of which are hardcore uttered by people who could take the Giantess in a straight-up fight (OK, Gimli may need a Legolas assist, and Elric has to be current on his meds).

[ti'esar]

The giant's expression as Roy punches her out is hilarious. Arguably a better punchline than the one about the ropes (which was pretty funny too).

[danielxcutter]

Okay, there's a pretty good reason this strip is already mentioned on Elan's folder in the Order of the Stick/Awesome page.

[Dilvish]

Yeah, if we consider who's the owner of the ship, it wasn't a baseless assumpion. :smallbiggrin:

Nor is it a giant assumption.

[JumboWheat01]

The giant's expression as Roy punches her out is hilarious. Arguably a better punchline than the one about the ropes (which was pretty funny too).

I dunno, that punchline seemed awfully forced into someone's face, making it slightly less enjoyable. :smalltongue:

[Legato Endless]

Well, I hope that doesn't prove structurally or mechanically critical later on, or give Andi another thing to blame if/when the Mechane crash-lands.

I mean, if Bandana hadn't taken them into the pass, then Andi wouldn't have had to take over the ship, and be forced to drive them foolishly off the path into the peaks that prevented Elan from healing the leak sooner. Which in turn wouldn't have led to the turbulence that led to Roy losing his sword and Elan having to save him.

Ergo if they crash now, it's because Bandana didn't lighten the Mechane's load by throwing herself off the ship, so there's still no need to blame Elan.

[Ironsmith]

But not punching her because she's a woman would be sexist, something we cannot support either. Such a predicament.

So wouldn't the best option be to omit her entirely?

Oh, wait, then we're depriving the comic of female representation...

[Mordar]

If he had tried to pick up the sword, the Giant would have gotten a free attack.

Shouldn't punching (unarmed attack) have done so (triggered Attack of Opportunity) as well? Or...does Roy have a feat that I don't know/have forgotten that allows it? Or...ignored rule for Rule of Cool?

- M

[8BitNinja]

I always thought that they were for heroic swinging too, but I just never tested it due to wearing plate armor.

[Jasqua]

Shouldn't punching (unarmed attack) have done so (triggered Attack of Opportunity) as well? Or...does Roy have a feat that I don't know/have forgotten that allows it? Or...ignored rule for Rule of Cool?

- M

If Roy has Improved Unarmed Strike he wouldn't provoke AoO from an unarmed punch, and it's not like he doesn't have feats for it as a Fighter

[mr-mercer]

Shouldn't punching (unarmed attack) have done so (triggered Attack of Opportunity) as well? Or...does Roy have a feat that I don't know/have forgotten that allows it? Or...ignored rule for Rule of Cool?

- M

I believe that's an effect of improved unarmed strike, alongside allowing you to deal lethal damage with your fists. I've never actually played with 3.5, though, so I could be wrong. At least one other person brought up IUS in the context of damage before on this thread, so I do feel a little more confident in talking about this.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also, I submit the following for your amusement.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Crom! Count the dead!
Ariel! Ariel! I give you blood and souls!

All of which are hardcore uttered by people who could take the Giantess in a straight-up fight (OK, Gimli may need a Legolas assist, and Elric has to be current on his meds).

Also a candidate:
T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't!*
As uttered by Cheery Littlebottom, likely the most intelligent member of the Ankh-Morpork City Guard, as she charged an immortal, giant-sized golem

GW

*Today is a good day for someone else to die!

[Riftwolf]

Shouldn't punching (unarmed attack) have done so (triggered Attack of Opportunity) as well? Or...does Roy have a feat that I don't know/have forgotten that allows it? Or...ignored rule for Rule of Cool?

- M

From memory, you don't threaten squares while moving as part of a charge. Or possibly moving at all.
It's possible Roy picked up unarmed strike; assuming he didn't put EVERY fighter feat into his sword.

[Athedia]

This is the mechane. They're schrodingers ropes.


The right word is Chekov's Rope.

Saying it's Schrodinger's Rope means that it's between two states.


I believe that's what she means, that the ropes are vital to the ship's functioning unless a Dashing Swordsman cuts one, in which case that one was only for heroic swinging.

I'm less than clear on what you're assuming she meant actually (that we should have known Elan would cut a rope as soon as we saw them? That doesn't make any sense).

This makes the most sense to me.

Though in my opinion that rope is actually probably important, but it won't take effect for another round or so....

[JumboWheat01]

From memory, you don't threaten squares while moving as part of a charge. Or possibly moving at all.
It's possible Roy picked up unarmed strike; assuming he didn't put EVERY fighter feat into his sword.

Only four feats would be needed for that, wouldn't it? Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Great Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization. Oh, and Power Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave, I suppose. That makes that seven. Still, compared to all the feats pure Fighters get, that's barely a drop in the hat.

[Liquor Box]

If Roy has Improved Unarmed Strike he wouldn't provoke AoO from an unarmed punch, and it's not like he doesn't have feats for it as a Fighter

Visually the damage the giant suffered looks similar to depictions of lethal damage. Although I'm not sure we have ever seen a non-lethal damage in the strip.

[Angrith]

Knowing the owner of the ship, Elan, you're probably right. The ship is probably attached to the bag by magic and the ropes are purely for aesthetics and heroic swinging.

[mr-mercer]

This makes the most sense to me.

Though in my opinion that rope is actually probably important, but it won't take effect for another round or so....

That would certainly be the funniest possible outcome. I'd love to see everyone's individual reactions to that: a mix of panic, confusion and exasperation at the stupidity involved, depending on who we're looking at at the time.


Visually the damage the giant suffered looks similar to depictions of lethal damage. Although I'm not sure we have ever seen a non-lethal damage in the strip.

Andi's little episode several strips ago might be a good example, though that is just a very small sample and so might not be 100% indicative.

[Velaryon]

I can't stop laughing at the giant's face in the panel where she's reeling from Roy's punch. :smallbiggrin:

[Pyron]

I only have one thing to say for now: SHORYUKEN!

No. It's SHOROYKEN!

[martianmister]

Why the :smallmad: face?

[danielxcutter]

I believe the Geekery thread says that Roy has Improved Grapple, which has Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. Also, Roy used punches to attack Thog when he dropped his sword during the arena fight. Perhaps he picked up the feat during or after the second arc, as that was when he suffered the most from losing his sword.

[mr-mercer]

I believe the Geekery thread says that Roy has Improved Grapple, which has Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq. Also, Roy used punches to attack Thog when he dropped his sword during the arena fight. Perhaps he picked up the feat during or after the second arc, as that was when he suffered the most from losing his sword.

That is quite possible, though it is worth noting that he fought Xykon into not-quite-oblivion barehanded when he first broke the sword (albeit by knocking him into the gate rather than via flat-out combat).

[danielxcutter]

That is quite possible, though it is worth noting that he fought Xykon into not-quite-oblivion barehanded when he first broke the sword (albeit by knocking him into the gate rather than via flat-out combat).

Also possible.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Also a candidate:
T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't!*
As uttered by Cheery Littlebottom, likely the most intelligent member of the Ankh-Morpork City Guard, as she charged an immortal, giant-sized golem

GW

*Today is a good day for someone else to die!

That just made me think of taH pagh taHbe', or otherwise cheghchu' jajvam, jaj QaQ. You have never read Order of the Stick until you have read it in the original Klingon.

And yes, I would gladly challenge somebody skilled and dedicated enough to translate it.

[JumboWheat01]

That just made me think of taH pagh taHbe', or otherwise cheghchu' jajvam, jaj QaQ. You have never read Order of the Stick until you have read it in the original Klingon.

And yes, I would gladly challenge somebody skilled and dedicated enough to translate it.

Oh yeah? Well you fight like a...

Wait, that's not going to do any good in this situation...

[TheNecrocomicon]

Oh yeah? Well you fight like a...

Wait, that's not going to do any good in this situation...

petaQ! Not that kind of challenge anyways :smalltongue:

[Kish]

misuse of the word "morosity"
Yeah, she seems pretty optimistic to me.

[Jay R]

It would be very poor design for any single rope to be crucial. The boat can probably be held on by about half the ropes - and it doesn't matter which half, as long as they aren't all on the same side.

It therefore follows that any single rope can be used for heroic swinging.

How else would Julio run an airship?

[mouser9169]

This morning, I thought the trailer for Thor:Ragnarok (just dropped) would be the most badass thing I'd see for a while.

I was wrong.

[Lvl45DM!]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5Xe2EnUMAEYAhm.jpg

Also, I submit the following for your amusement.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Crom! Count the dead!
Ariel! Ariel! I give you blood and souls!

All of which are hardcore uttered by people who could take the Giantess in a straight-up fight (OK, Gimli may need a Legolas assist, and Elric has to be current on his meds).

Arioch.
Arioch gets blood and souls.
Ariel gets thingamabobs and whatsits.

[Forikroder]

It would be very poor design for any single rope to be crucial. The boat can probably be held on by about half the ropes - and it doesn't matter which half, as long as they aren't all on the same side.

It therefore follows that any single rope can be used for heroic swinging.

How else would Julio run an airship?

the Mechane is magical, it moves faster when theres more at stake and always arrives at the nick of time, maybe it always makes sure there is a non-critical rope near anyone who might need to dramatically swing to save the day?

[Cicciograna]

I just recognized that "hi-three" is a pun on "hi-five" with a couple of missing fingers.

I'm giggling more than what would be entirely sane.

[Basement Cat]

I love the expression on the giantess' face when Roy--a tiny speck of a man (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1063.html)--jumps up and wallops her.

:roy: "Didn't see that coming, did you?"

Also, initially I feared that doom would result from Elan's impressively successful rescue. It was only when I started reading the comments reminding us that this is the Mechane and Elan is a Dashing Swordsman that my anxiety lessened.

Roy and Elan's relationship has improved amazingly since Durkula's betrayal opened Roy's eyes but I'm nonetheless amazed at how rapidly (in story) it's advanced. :smallsmile:

[Ariko]

Also a candidate:
T'dr'duzk b'hazg t't!*
As uttered by Cheery Littlebottom, likely the most intelligent member of the Ankh-Morpork City Guard, as she charged an immortal, giant-sized golem

GW

*Today is a good day for someone else to die!

Coincidentilly, I am in the midst of rereading that book :smallbiggrin:

[KillingAScarab]

Haha, this strip just reminded me of something.

Will we now get a fight like the classic 1960's Batman series? :smallbiggrin:

POW! BANG! BIFF! KAPOW!We will also need HI-THREE! and, presumably, YAK! (https://theinfosphere.org/Transcript:Less_than_Hero) or BORT! (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0701201/) added to that.


No. It's SHOROYKEN!The frost giant didn't expect a wake-up shoRoyken? Oh, she's so Pringles, where yo' curleh mustache at? (http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/mahvel-baybee)

[Giggling Ghast]

Roy didn't punch that giantess, he just "re-accommodated" her on an over-booked flight.

(Rich just made that joke on Twitter.)

[Darth Paul]

Hi-three.
Because using your touch spells normally is too boring for a swordman as dashing as you are.

I actually wondered if it was a misprint for "Hi-there"? Since he looks to be shaking hands, sort of.

Wait... it's another inside joke, isn't it... because they have only three fingers. He gave him a High Three.

Oh, very nice. :smallamused:

[unbeliever536]

I actually wondered if it was a misprint for "Hi-there"? Since he looks to be shaking hands, sort of.

Wait... it's another inside joke, isn't it... because they have only three fingers. He gave him a High Three.

Oh, very nice. :smallamused:

That is not what an inside joke is.

[Chantelune]

Mmmh, not entirely sure what to think about Roy not picking up the sword... On one hand, it means he won't loose it again. On the other hand, the next disarm might get a lot more litteral. :smallconfused:

[Unoriginal]

Ariel! Ariel! I give you blood and souls!

That Little Mermaid live-action remake was pretty hardcore.



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5Xe2EnUMAEYAhm.jpg

Question: why does it look like each of those pannels were drawn by different people?



Mmmh, not entirely sure what to think about Roy not picking up the sword... On one hand, it means he won't loose it again. On the other hand, the next disarm might get a lot more litteral. :smallconfused:

He DID pick up the sword. He just punched the giantess because he didn't have the time to get the sword, then he picked it up.

[Blatt]

So Elan slashes a stay1 and gripping it between his ankles dives down with cutlass in the right hand and performs a cure critical with the left. Is this the same Elan who took 11 tries at mending?!

Check for goatee!!

1Or was it a shroud? :smallfrown:

[ti'esar]

Dashing Swordsmen's talents shine when they get to look cool. Fixing a hole in cloth doesn't look particularly cool. :smalltongue:

[Anarion]

That was great by Elan. The Mechane is definitely his natural environment. Hi-three sound effect was awesome as well.

[hamishspence]

That Little Mermaid live-action remake was pretty hardcore.




I'm guessing it was "Arioch" (Lord of Chaos in the Elric of Melnibone stories) but spellchecker changed it.

[Goblin_Priest]

Elan's cure spell came at a good time, but...

I doubt it gives more than 2 rounds' worth of damage, if even that. Probably not even 1 round's worth...

Did Roy pick up improved unarmed strike? Unarmed attacks otherwise provoke attacks of opportunity.

Speaking of which, why did he even get an attack? :P He seemed to interrupt a charge, but there was no reason for her to provoke an attack of opportunity herself. Heck, non-silly large creatures would charge to get up to 10ft from their target, which would have put her out of Roy's reach anyways! We now see very well why she wasn't in charge! Such poor tactical acumen. :P

Which also made me notice... this is the first time she actually hot hit? For 1d3+pittance damage...? A non-leveled frost giant has 133 hp. I'm going to assume that this particular giant probably has many levels, quite possibly over 10. Punching her won't win the fight.

[motub]

Go, Elan! Way to buckle that swash!! An absolutely perfect moment, well-seized. It's taken some time for this team to come together so well that the (formerly) weakest member can be "that guy"-- and have the skills to do exactly the right thing at precisely the right moment to enable the team to succeed.

And with style; not just a Cure Critical Wounds, but via a hi-three :smallcool:.... we've come a long way from the yahoo who blew up Xykon's castle with the Castle Emergency Self-Destruct Rune... by accident, sorta.

I'm very proud on Elan's behalf.

P.S. That "POW!" from Roy was pretty frikkin' cool, too. But we knew he's a past master at seizing opportunity. :smallbiggrin:

[Shining Wrath]

I'm guessing it was "Arioch" (Lord of Chaos in the Elric of Melnibone stories) but spellchecker changed it.

Actually, I went by memory and botched it, but thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Don't age, it does terrible things to your brain.


Everyone, let's just assume Roy has Improved Unarmed Strike, since it explains punching before picking up the sword, and also the ability to deal lethal damage (as indicated by the cross hatch on the chin of the giantess) with a punch. It seems to fit the story, and Assorted Pantheons know that a 3rd edition fighter gets enough feats. If Roy is 15th level, he's accumulated 14 feats (7 fighter bonus, 6 normal character, one for human).

[Goblin_Priest]

Actually, I went by memory and botched it, but thank you for the benefit of the doubt. Don't age, it does terrible things to your brain.


Everyone, let's just assume Roy has Improved Unarmed Strike, since it explains punching before picking up the sword, and also the ability to deal lethal damage (as indicated by the cross hatch on the chin of the giantess) with a punch. It seems to fit the story, and Assorted Pantheons know that a 3rd edition fighter gets enough feats. If Roy is 15th level, he's accumulated 14 feats (7 fighter bonus, 6 normal character, one for human).

Yea, but him getting improved unarmed strike assumes that he spent resources (a feat) on something completely unrelated to his sword! If he can't bother carrying a backup weapon, am I really supposed to believe he spent a feat for one?

Do we even know what non-lethal looks like? This COULD be lethal damage... but how else would you draw non-lethal? It would seem fitting for non-lethal as well, IMO.

None of which explains why he even got an attack to begin with, though. Nor why picking up that sword didn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

I mean, sure, he could have spent 1 feat on unarmed strikes. But to stun someone with unarmed strikes... if that's even possible for fighters, I'd assume it would take a LOT of feats. That giant has reach, he's still being threatened by her. And even if he had somehow gotten an illegal readied action (when giant comes near: get up, do 5 foot step, attack), she still should have gotten her regular attack on top of all the potential attacks of opportunity.

[Quibblicious]

I always thought that they were for heroic swinging too, but I just never tested it due to wearing plate armor.

Swinging in full plate causes you to transform into Miley Cyrus and come in like a wrecking ball...

Q

[TheTurboTornado]

I only have one thing to say for now: SHORYUKEN!

You beat me to it.:smallfrown:

[Quibblicious]

petaQ! Not that kind of challenge anyways :smalltongue:

It's a Klingon duel!!

With WORDS!!

Klingon Bards!

Woohooo!!!

Q

[Shining Wrath]

Yea, but him getting improved unarmed strike assumes that he spent resources (a feat) on something completely unrelated to his sword! If he can't bother carrying a backup weapon, am I really supposed to believe he spent a feat for one?

Do we even know what non-lethal looks like? This COULD be lethal damage... but how else would you draw non-lethal? It would seem fitting for non-lethal as well, IMO.

None of which explains why he even got an attack to begin with, though. Nor why picking up that sword didn't provoke an attack of opportunity.

I mean, sure, he could have spent 1 feat on unarmed strikes. But to stun someone with unarmed strikes... if that's even possible for fighters, I'd assume it would take a LOT of feats. That giant has reach, he's still being threatened by her. And even if he had somehow gotten an illegal readied action (when giant comes near: get up, do 5 foot step, attack), she still should have gotten her regular attack on top of all the potential attacks of opportunity.

As the Giant has said many times [casts Summon Banana] the rules take a back seat to the story. We also know that the Order of the Stick is not a high-op party, and the characters do not always make optimal choices (e.g., Vaarsuvius banning Conjuration).

We also don't know that the giantess is stunned; that might be a critical hit that flat-out killed her. But I think we'll see her fighting some more next strip.
Every time we've seen someone lose HP they gained visible red marks. I don't remember off the top of my head if anyone ever used explicitly non-lethal damage.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Presumably when Haley was using the sap she was.

And GP, you seem to be discounting the sheer number of feats a human fighter has. Roy may have taken every one that applies to his preferred style, but that still leaves him with about 6.

edit: also, given that she seems to be dropping the axe, Roy may have used Stunning Fist.

[Alandra]

Wow, Elan is seriously awesome in this strip!

I just hope that rope won't come back to bite them, but on the Mechane that's probably not a problem.

Maybe that's why he took so long to mend the hull - on the Mechane you always arrive at the last possible moment to save someone (or at least Dashing Swordmen do :smallwink:).

[Psyren]

Dashing Swordsman ability; add your DS level and charisma bonus to your concentration check if what you're doing can be described as 'daring-do'.

"All skill and ability checks" would be my guess.

Not to mention the Rule of Funny that lets any character do the same.

[Jasdoif]

As the Giant has said many times [casts Summon Banana] the rules take a back seat to the story.You rang a-peeled?


....Because that's sort of how I write it; I use the D&D rules when they fit into the story (and I remember them), and break them when they don't. Thus, you can still extrapolate D&D stats of the characters unless I show something that simply defies the game as written—like Roy casting a fireball. And you can still make predictions about what might happen in the future as if it were all going to unfold according to the D&D rules, as long as you understand that hey, maybe I might fudge that one. And then don't complain if I do.

I love D&D. I love writing about D&D. I still have things that I want to say about D&D, or using D&D as a lens. They are things about alignment and philosophy, storytelling and its place in our lives, the treatment of those different from ourselves, and the meaning of family. I would like to be able to say those things without them getting bogged down in the details of whether or not a character can move more than five feet before executing such-and-such an action....

[Samzat]

Elan hasnt used the full potential of the Dashing Swordsman since his battle with Nale in Azure City and perhaps his "debate" with Tarquin on the palace rooftop, as most of his key moments throughout the comic were pure character growth rather than combat achievement. Does this mean we will get more Action Elan? I damn well hope so.

Note: Does the dashing swordsman gain any bonuses for duels? Elan seems to be fairly weak when fighting in groups or against groups, but looks like a right badass in mano e mano one on one combat.

[Shining Wrath]

You rang a-peeled?

I promise to not summon you from the Realms Celestial any more often than necessary, oh quintlaterally symmetric entity.

[KorvinStarmast]

Every time we've seen someone lose HP they gained visible red marks. I don't remember off the top of my head if anyone ever used explicitly non-lethal damage. While I think you're right, I am still ROFLing over your unintended image of Elric offering up blood and souls to the Little Mermaid. Hilarity, when accidental, is still good stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[Grey Watcher]

Ha. Can't decide if Elan is more Julio's protege or Tarquin's son in that moment.

Oh, Tarquin would HATE this: Elan is making a great, charismatic show of swinging in... to cast a support spell to let Roy continue to take the lead in the fight.

[Jay R]

Yea, but him getting improved unarmed strike assumes that he spent resources (a feat) on something completely unrelated to his sword! If he can't bother carrying a backup weapon, am I really supposed to believe he spent a feat for one?

By contrast, I think not having a backup weapon is the perfect reason to get improved unarmed strike.

[Keltest]

By contrast, I think not having a backup weapon is the perfect reason to get improved unarmed strike.

I think its the perfect reason to get a backup weapon. Roy is a fighter, his unarmed strikes are pretty unlikely to be better than a spare weapon, and items are easier to come by than feats.

[8BitNinja]

Swinging in full plate causes you to transform into Miley Cyrus and come in like a wrecking ball...

Q

Then it's settled

I am never doing that. I would lose my paladinhood faster than you could say blasphemy

[Shining Wrath]

I think its the perfect reason to get a backup weapon. Roy is a fighter, his unarmed strikes are pretty unlikely to be better than a spare weapon, and items are easier to come by than feats.

Except there's good reason to not use a locking gauntlet, and since you might lose your weapon, being able to punch someone effectively might be handy - especially if you have a belt of giant strength and 17 feats to toss around.

At Roy's strength, the difference between 1d4 + 12 from a punch, and 1d8 + 12 from a backup weapon, is 2 points out of 15.

[danielxcutter]

Except there's good reason to not use a locking gauntlet, and since you might lose your weapon, being able to punch someone effectively might be handy - especially if you have a belt of giant strength and 17 feats to toss around.

At Roy's strength, the difference between 1d4 + 12 from a punch, and 1d8 + 12 from a backup weapon, is 2 points out of 15.

Actually, it's only 1 point for base damage. Power Attack damage is something to consider, as you don't get the 200% efficiency of two-handed weapons, but he does have full BAB and ridiculous Strength, so as a backup weapon, unarmed strikes aren't that bad.

[Carl]

I'm beginning to think the Mechane has it's own time/space continuum subspace. Certainly it could be moving faster than everything else (IE: Hammy from Over The Hedge after he drinks Red Bull or Quicksilver from Avengers/X-Men.) For this many things to happen and STILL going to get there on time? Ooooooooooor I could be overthinking it like I usually do and just relax for Mystery Science Thea.....oh no wait. Wrong genre!

When a dashing swordsmen is flying on the Machene it gets a bonus to it's move each round equal to his charisma bonus x10 when he's short on time, (or her as appropriate).

[Carl]

While I think you're right, I am still ROFLing over your unintended image of Elric offering up blood and souls to the Little Mermaid. Hilarity, when accidental, is still good stuff. :smallbiggrin:

I assumed it was from warhammer and he was talking about the wood elf queen. Which is still weird, but not quite as so.

[Goblin_Priest]

Oh, Tarquin would HATE this: Elan is making a great, charismatic show of swinging in... to cast a support spell to let Roy continue to take the lead in the fight.

I could totally see a small panel in the next strip where Tarquin has a nightmare about this.

[KorvinStarmast]

I assumed it was from warhammer and he was talking about the wood elf queen. Which is still weird, but not quite as so. It might also have been a blood sacrifice offered to the spirit in the Shakespearean play (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_(The_Tempest)) *The Tempest.*

[Quibblicious]

Then it's settled

I am never doing that. I would lose my paladinhood faster than you could say blasphemy

This is how bards save souls.

Through obscure pop culture references.

Q

[Quibblicious]

While I think you're right, I am still ROFLing over your unintended image of Elric offering up blood and souls to the Little Mermaid. Hilarity, when accidental, is still good stuff. :smallbiggrin:

It's a whole new world,
A bloody, evil place,
The gods tell us where to go,
to slit your throat and eat your face...


A Bard's gotta bard.

Q

[Jasdoif]

While I think you're right, I am still ROFLing over your unintended image of Elric offering up blood and souls to the Little Mermaid. Hilarity, when accidental, is still good stuff. :smallbiggrin:It's a whole new world,
A bloody, evil place,
The gods tell us where to go,
to slit your throat and eat your face...


A Bard's gotta bard.Does "mixing up Ariel and Jasmine" constitute "barding"? :smalltongue:

[Unoriginal]

Does "mixing up Ariel and Jasmine" constitute "barding"? :smalltongue:

So many skillpoints to seduce women, so little to remember their names...

[KorvinStarmast]

Does "mixing up Ariel and Jasmine" constitute "barding"? :smalltongue: The Disney Curse has a save DC of 22. That's a tough one.

[Unoriginal]

The Disney Curse has a save DC of 22. That's a tough one.

Better keep one jump ahead.

[Shining Wrath]

I'd go back and edit Ariel into Arioch, but that would probably result in the most confusing GitP thread ever, so I guess I'll just sit here and take my abuse.

Go ahead, you big meanies, I can take it. BRING IT.

[Snails]

The Disney Curse has a save DC of 22. That's a tough one.

For a moment there, I read that as Disney Cruise and my mind conjured various problems that have occurred on cruise ships in the last some years.

DC 22? I will stay home where it is safe, Mickey.

[Quibblicious]

Does "mixing up Ariel and Jasmine" constitute "barding"? :smalltongue:

I riff what I riff...

Q

[Quibblicious]

For a moment there, I read that as Disney Cruise and my mind conjured various problems that have occurred on cruise ships in the last some years.

DC 22? I will stay home where it is safe, Mickey.

DC = Disney Check :smallbiggrin:

Q

[Jasdoif]

Does "mixing up Ariel and Jasmine" constitute "barding"? :smalltongue:I riff what I riff...So, yes, then :smalltongue: I'd have gone with something like....

Look at this soul, isn't it neat?
Still bloody-fresh from bone-crushing defeat.
It should've known I'm the girl,
The girl who'll rule...everything!

[Quibblicious]

So, yes, then :smalltongue: I'd have gone with something like....

Look at this soul, isn't it neat?
Still bloody-fresh from bone-crushing defeat.
It should've known I'm the girl,
The girl who'll rule...everything!

Nice!

Good work.

Q

[Skull the Troll]

Yea, but him getting improved unarmed strike assumes that he spent resources (a feat) on something completely unrelated to his sword! If he can't bother carrying a backup weapon, am I really supposed to believe he spent a feat for one? *snip*

I figure this is why he doesn't have a spare weapon. He spent a feat, which is undeniably effective. He just dropped an ice giant like Mongo punching a horse. He can engage in combat with a "spare" attack that cant be taken away from him. Roy is somewhat unconventional in his feat choices anyhow. He doesn't have ride, nothing (shown) for shields ,etc.

[happycrow]

I figure this is why he doesn't have a spare weapon. He spent a feat, which is undeniably effective. He just dropped an ice giant like Mongo punching a horse. He can engage in combat with a "spare" attack that cant be taken away from him. Roy is somewhat unconventional in his feat choices anyhow. He doesn't have ride, nothing (shown) for shields ,etc.

And he weaponizes Knowledge:Architecture. Clearly any expectation of him conforming to Standard Murderhobo Build is nonsense on stilts.

[Barstro]

My apologies if this was already addressed;

How was Roy's status effect removed?

[Chei]

My apologies if this was already addressed;

How was Roy's status effect removed?

If he was indeed staggered by the attack (nonlethal damage equal to current hit points), then Elan's healing would remove the condition. If he was stunned, then it's because a round passed since he was stunned. I don't have anything for the other possible conditions.

[Barstro]

If he was indeed staggered by the attack (nonlethal damage equal to current hit points), then Elan's healing would remove the condition. If he was stunned, then it's because a round passed since he was stunned. I don't have anything for the other possible conditions.

I have trouble believing (based on weapon of choice and prior conversations by her) that the giantess was using nonlethal.
I'm not sure that a "round" passed if the stunning was from an attack on her turn and she had not completed her next turn. But I am admittedly ignorant as to the beginning and end of "a round". EDIT: Also, the removal of the condition seems to have taken place during Elan's turn, since Roy was (something) while Elan was moving, but no longer affected upon receiving the Cure spell.

[Jasdoif]

I have trouble believing (based on weapon of choice and prior conversations by her) that the giantess was using nonlethal.The giantess bringing Roy's hit points down to where it was equal to his nonlethal damage taken would result in the staggered condition, too. As an added bonus, magical healing restores lost hit points and reduces nonlethal damage independently, allowing for up to double its normal effectiveness; which could explain why Elan's cure critical wounds was so effective.

Of course, then the question becomes "what did Roy take nonlethal damage from, anyway?"....

[Liquor Box]

The giantess bringing Roy's hit points down to where it was equal to his nonlethal damage taken would result in the staggered condition, too. As an added bonus, magical healing restores lost hit points and reduces nonlethal damage independently, allowing for up to double its normal effectiveness; which could explain why Elan's cure critical wounds was so effective.

Of course, then the question becomes "what did Roy take nonlethal damage from, anyway?"....

Could it be falling damage? In #1069 panel 10, after being hit by the giant, Roy doesn't have stars, in panel 11 (after hitting the ground) he does. Also, it's not a fall, but the impact with the wall in 1068 seems pretty hard.


I still question how much damage Roy took from the female frost giant. In #1067 when he dispatches the male Giant Roy has a slash on his face and a single slash on his chest. In #1070 Roy has a single slash to his face, and three slashes to his chest. So the amount of damage done by the female frost giant was similar to that incurred by Roy prior to him killing the male giant.

By comparison, if we look at the last panel of #1006 (Roy's fight with Durkon) Roy has the facial slash and 7 visible slashes to the body, a slash to the arm, and a slash to the leg (10 slashes altogether). Roy then incurs further damage in the final panel of #1007 without dying (you can't see if this results in further visible damage).

From this it appears that the fight with the female giant cost Roy less than 20% of his hit points (2 slashes, when he >10 is not sufficient to kill him). So perhaps his straights were not as dire as they may have appeared. Of course this relies on consistent illustration of damage in different fights - but I think that's a reasonable assumption.

[Unoriginal]

You know, people keep saying that Roy is a pretty strategic and reasonable dude, but he really tends to go overboard with his sword.

[Snails]

The giantess bringing Roy's hit points down to where it was equal to his nonlethal damage taken would result in the staggered condition, too. As an added bonus, magical healing restores lost hit points and reduces nonlethal damage independently, allowing for up to double its normal effectiveness; which could explain why Elan's cure critical wounds was so effective.

Of course, then the question becomes "what did Roy take nonlethal damage from, anyway?"....

Additional damage from getting thrown into an object by the force of the blow is something that might be handwaved as nonlethal, even though the most examples in the rules give lethal damage. In this particular battle, that would not seem to add up to much, regardless.

When Roy was in the arena with Thog, a substantial portion of the damage inflicted by Thog could have been nonlethal. Then the potion given to Roy could have surprising effectiveness.

FWIW, I would guess the designers avoided using nonlethal damage because it would annoy the players and the DM. For the players, it would feel like you are getting nickel and dimed if your cool chuck-your-opponent schtick was useless against undead, frex. Regardless, nonlethal creates fiddly bookkeeping to no improvement to the fun, in most situations. We only really care when someone is purposefully targeted for capture.

[happycrow]

We've frozen that line of puns until the ice giant is dealt with.

[happycrow]

When Roy was in the arena with Thog, a substantial portion of the damage inflicted by Thog could have been nonlethal. Then the potion given to Roy could have surprising effectiveness.

I know I'm the wrong kind of nerd, but having worn a lot of armor for living-history, I'd totally allow a player to take that sort of bouncing-around damage as non-lethal if it happened in armor. I knew dudes who actually threw themselves off a hillside in plate. Repeatedly. For laughs.

[Snails]

I know I'm the wrong kind of nerd, but having worn a lot of armor for living-history, I'd totally allow a player to take that sort of bouncing-around damage as non-lethal if it happened in armor. I knew dudes who actually threw themselves off a hillside in plate. Repeatedly. For laughs.

That totally makes sense to me. If we really cared about "realism", attacks that inflict both nonlethal and lethal damage would be normal. The general idea of "easy to heal" points and "hard to heal" points is quite common in systems that want to be a notch or two up on the realism scale. Wound Points is one variant of such an idea.

The simple boring old hit points is a game mechanic that is extremely efficient in terms of game fun for the bookkeeping costs. Even though lots and lots of people see the appeal of things like wound points, stat damage, level drain, etc., these ideas do not end up as very liked, and most people end up yearning for simple.

[happycrow]

That totally makes sense to me. If we really cared about "realism", attacks that inflict both nonlethal and lethal damage would be normal. The general idea of "easy to heal" points and "hard to heal" points is quite common in systems that want to be a notch or two up on the realism scale. Wound Points is one variant of such an idea.

The simple boring old hit points is a game mechanic that is extremely efficient in terms of game fun for the bookkeeping costs. Even though lots and lots of people see the appeal of things like wound points, stat damage, level drain, etc., these ideas do not end up as very liked, and most people end up yearning for simple.

Deargodyes. I'm old enough to have played Traveller and Iron Crown Enterprise's stuff. Hit points suit me JUST DANDY THANK YEW. :)

[8BitNinja]

This is how bards save souls.

Through obscure pop culture references.

Q

Who knew that a bard was part cleric?

[danielxcutter]

Who knew that a bard was part cleric?

I believe that there's at least one feat in 3.5 that allows you to stack Bard and Cleric levels for Turn Undead and bardic music progression.

[Coolio Wolfus]

So Elan slashes a stay1 and gripping it between his ankles dives down with cutlass in the right hand and performs a cure critical with the left. Is this the same Elan who took 11 tries at mending?!

Check for goatee!!

1Or was it a shroud? :smallfrown:

11 tries at Mmmmmm-mmmmm-mmending!

As I had previously spoilered as: "Em-Counter (Omg, it goes all the way to 11)" in the 1069 thread...

M1 m2 m3 m4 m5 m-m6 m7 m8 m9 m-m10 mending11 !
Note: The "m-|-m" continuation between panels shown here as "m-m"

11 tries to say "Mending" once...

[Sermil]

Ariel! Ariel! I give you blood and souls!


That Little Mermaid live-action remake was pretty hardcore.


Oh, and here I thought it was some obscure Baldur's Gate II reference.
"I... I won't let my friends be hurt!" -- ya, way to terrify them there, Ariel Aerie.

"For the needy!" Seriously, Nalia?

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!" There we go.

[F.Harr]

I get a bad feeling that that's not going to turn out to have been a safe rope to have cut.

[Dorath]

Oh, and here I thought it was some obscure Baldur's Gate II reference.
"I... I won't let my friends be hurt!" -- ya, way to terrify them there, Ariel Aerie.

"For the needy!" Seriously, Nalia?

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!" There we go.

Less talk, more fight!

[Quibblicious]

You know, people keep saying that Roy is a pretty strategic and reasonable dude, but he really tends to go overboard with his sword.

Dude, great work but would've been more effective getting lost in a logorrheaic discussion of gender roles and stereotypes in frost giant society. :smallwink:

Q

[Quibblicious]

I know I'm the wrong kind of nerd, but having worn a lot of armor for living-history, I'd totally allow a player to take that sort of bouncing-around damage as non-lethal if it happened in armor. I knew dudes who actually threw themselves off a hillside in plate. Repeatedly. For laughs.

Having tumbled down a hillside in plate armor once, I can attest that plate armor is little help against the damage from tumbling down a hill.

Longer explanation: I used to fight heavy weapons in SCA and I slipped while descending from my campsite to the field and tumbled down a roughly ten foot hillside. It hurt. Lots of bumps and bruises from the armor and a slight sprain from the initial slip. That was the last time I wore boots with non-lugged soles to an event.

Q

[Quibblicious]

Who knew that a bard was part cleric?

Healing, poison neutralizing, illusions, singing, fighting, making quips, bad puns, story telling...

We're Jacks of all Trades.

Q

[georgie_leech]

How can we have been discussing bloodthirsty versions of The Little Mermaid songs and not have yet mentioned this gem? (https://youtu.be/fcbazH6aE2g)

[Jasdoif]

How can we have been discussing bloodthirsty versions of The Little Mermaid songs and not have yet mentioned this gem? (https://youtu.be/fcbazH6aE2g)You want "Part of Your World" parodies? There are plenty!
But who cares? No big deal. She wants mooooooooooooore...

[RolkFlameraven]

It's a Klingon duel!!

With WORDS!!

Klingon Bards!

Woohooo!!!

Q

But, that mean's duling Klingon Opera. I don't think the world is ready for that.

[Shining Wrath]

But, that mean's duling Klingon Opera. I don't think the world is ready for that.

And somehow, we've gone from discussing whether or not Roy has taken the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, to Klingons dueling via opera. All because of Bards.

Truly, Bards are the life of the party, and of the Party. But in Soviet Russia, Bard Finds You.

[happycrow]

It's a small town, ShiningWrath. Everybody knows where everybody lives.

[Swashbuckler]

tsk tsk tsk Roy ... hitting a lady!

/sarcasm

[Snails]

And somehow, we've gone from discussing whether or not Roy has taken the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, to Klingons dueling via opera. All because of Bards.

It is the very same topic. They do not nonlethal damage with their unarmed strikes in Klingon opera.

[JumboWheat01]

Healing, poison neutralizing, illusions, singing, fighting, making quips, bad puns, story telling...

We're Jacks of all Trades.

Q

But can you trade all jacks?

[danielxcutter]

Healing, poison neutralizing, illusions, singing, fighting, making quips, bad puns, story telling...

We're Jacks of all Trades.

Q

Jack of all trades, master of none... but better than master of one.

[8BitNinja]

I know I'm the wrong kind of nerd, but having worn a lot of armor for living-history, I'd totally allow a player to take that sort of bouncing-around damage as non-lethal if it happened in armor. I knew dudes who actually threw themselves off a hillside in plate. Repeatedly. For laughs.

Can you do a favor for me?

Toss me

[happycrow]

Can you do a favor for me?

Toss me

Nobody tosses a dwarf.

(They were also, to be fair, in pretty fabulous Milanese Export harnesses with all the proper historical trimming-and-pointing and perfect fitting. So... you know. I'm not tossing MYSELF down a hill anytime soon.....)

[Jay R]

Perhaps there's only one rope, going up and down like the thread in a seam. A few rounds after you cut it anywhere, it comes undone, and the Mechane drops into some location that just happens to have a heroic sidequest that needs a hero.

Julio knows this, and only cuts a rope when he's ahead of schedule, and there's time for a sidequest with a lovely damsel, which takes up just enough time that he will still reach his destination in the nick of time.

[8BitNinja]

Perhaps there's only one rope, going up and down like the thread in a seam. A few rounds after you cut it anywhere, it comes undone, and the Mechane drops into some location that just happens to have a heroic sidequest that needs a hero.

Julio knows this, and only cuts a rope when he's ahead of schedule, and there's time for a sidequest with a lovely damsel, which takes up just enough time that he will still reach his destination in the nick of time.

Since he always arrives in the nick of time, I'm pretty sure he can do this whenever.

[PeglegJim]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say Andi did nothing wrong.

[Kish]

Indeed! I wonder when the turnaround that reveals that Breakout Protagonist Andi is actually saving the Mechane will happen. Should be any strip now!

[Lord Torath]

Less talk, more fight!Magic is impressive. But now, Minsc leads! SWORDS for EVERYONE!

[Sermil]

Magic is impressive. But now, Minsc leads! SWORDS for EVERYONE!

Let's give it a good shake and see what falls out! Like Roy's sword

(Yea, we're back to be topical to the current comic arc! :smallwink:)

[8BitNinja]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say Andi did nothing wrong.

Is that going to be the new meme on this forum?

[danielxcutter]

Is that going to be the new meme on this forum?

You mean it wasn't a meme already? :smallbiggrin:

[KillingAScarab]

I'm just gonna go ahead and say Andi did nothing wrong.


Is that going to be the new meme on this forum?


You mean it wasn't a meme already? :smallbiggrin:Nah, that isn't memetic. That's just stating the obvious: when Andi does not make an appearance, she can do no wrong. There are so many pages in which Andi did nothing wrong. #1, #2, #3... For most of The Order of the Stick, Andi did nothing wrong. :smallamused:

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, but she wasn't doing anything right either. She wasn't doing anything, including breathing.

[factotum]

Yeah, but she wasn't doing anything right either. She wasn't doing anything, including breathing.

Given her age I'm sure she was somewhere in the world breathing during all the events of strips 1 etc, we just didn't see what she was doing. Otherwise, you might as well say Haley was not alive during any strip where *she* didn't appear (she presumably got better).

[danielxcutter]

Given her age I'm sure she was somewhere in the world breathing during all the events of strips 1 etc, we just didn't see what she was doing. Otherwise, you might as well say Haley was not alive during any strip where *she* didn't appear (she presumably got better).

I wish Andi'd stop. Breathing, that is.

[Liquor Box]

Let's give it a good shake and see what falls out! Like Roy's sword

(Yea, we're back to be topical to the current comic arc! :smallwink:)

Jump on my sword while you can, evil... I won't be as gentle!

[denthor]

It's a Klingon duel!!

With WORDS!!

Klingon Bards!

Woohooo!!!

Q


I did not get ninja'd somewhere??
"you have not heard Shakespeare until you have heard it in the original klingon!!" quote Christopher Lloyd

Wow!! I can not be the only star trek fan here?

[hamishspence]

I did not get ninja'd somewhere??
"you have not heard Shakespeare until you have heard it in the original klingon!!" quote Christopher Lloyd


Christopher Plummer actually. Christopher Lloyd was in Star Trek III.

[Blairdrax]

Osoooom!!!!!!!!!!

[keybounce]

But can you trade all jacks?

Are they pokemon? Magic cards?

Right, you can do magic tricks with Jacks, go ahead.


Jack of all trades, master of none... but better than master of one.

You did put it in, in white. I came here to add it in, but you already hid that little egg of wisdom.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I did not get ninja'd somewhere??
"you have not heard Shakespeare until you have heard it in the original klingon!!"

Some time ago, in fact ...


You have never read Order of the Stick until you have read it in the original Klingon.

[danielxcutter]

You did put it in, in white. I came here to add it in, but you already hid that little egg of wisdom.

I discovered it on Tumblr. It was mentioned in a post talking about other sayings that suffer similar fates, such as "Curiosity killed the cat".

[Peelee]

I discovered it on Tumblr. It was mentioned in a post talking about other sayings that suffer similar fates, such as "Curiosity killed the cat".

Tumblr dude should have said the line is "sometimes better than a master of one." Or "can be better," or variants thereof.

[Lord Torath]

I discovered it on Tumblr. It was mentioned in a post talking about other sayings that suffer similar fates, such as "Curiosity killed the cat".Why does everyone always forget the second half of that saying?

Curiosity killed the cat.
And satisfaction brought it back!

[Goblin_Priest]

Why does everyone always forget the second half of that saying?

Curiosity killed the cat.
And satisfaction brought it back!

Heh, I never actually heard that second part before.

I find it extremely unrelatable. Something being too curious for its own good is entirely plausible, easy to imagine. Resurrection following a reckless death... what the heck?

[8BitNinja]

Nah, that isn't memetic. That's just stating the obvious: when Andi does not make an appearance, she can do no wrong. There are so many pages in which Andi did nothing wrong. #1, #2, #3... For most of The Order of the Stick, Andi did nothing wrong. :smallamused:

This might sound rich coming from a paladin, but why does everything have to end up with technicalities

[Sithrak]

I discovered it on Tumblr. It was mentioned in a post talking about other sayings that suffer similar fates, such as "Curiosity killed the cat".Are you talking about this comment chain (http://i.imgur.com/Lq1Gqf8.png) by any chance? Because unfortunately, the whole thing is just another case of internet disinformation. The familiar stock phrases really are the originals, and the putative "full" versions are rejoinders that were created at a later date (usually much later).

It's actually possible to track the evolution of "jack of all trades, master of none, often better than a master of none." Originally, we just had "jack of all trades" as a way of referring to people with a working knowledge of many fields. But as specialization came to be seen as valuable, "master of none" was added on to reframe the original term as pejorative. And finally, "often better than a master of one" was added on to that when we went back to valuing diverse skill sets. So it was never part of the "full" or "original" or "real" phrase. It was something tacked on to refute an earlier sentiment.

So what does all this mean for us? Possibly nothing. We are not duty-bound to put the original phrases—and the sentiments behind them—on a pedestal. The rejoinders exist precisely because times and sentiments change. If you think the modern variants are closer to the truth than the originals, more power to you. Knowledge marches on! But it's still worth knowing that what you are passing on is modern thinking, not ancient wisdom.


Why does everyone always forget the second half of that saying?Because it's not actually the second half of the saying (see above).

[danielxcutter]

Are you talking about this comment chain (http://i.imgur.com/Lq1Gqf8.png) by any chance? Because unfortunately, the whole thing is just another case of internet disinformation. The familiar stock phrases really are the originals, and the putative "full" versions are rejoinders that were created at a later date (usually much later).

It's actually possible to track the evolution of "jack of all trades, master of none, often better than a master of none." Originally, we just had "jack of all trades" as a way of referring to people with a working knowledge of many fields. But as specialization came to be seen as valuable, "master of none" was added on to reframe the original term as pejorative. And finally, "often better than a master of one" was added on to that when we went back to valuing diverse skill sets. So it was never part of the "full" or "original" or "real" phrase. It was something tacked on to refute an earlier sentiment.

So what does all this mean for us? Possibly nothing. We are not duty-bound to put the original phrases—and the sentiments behind them—on a pedestal. The rejoinders exist precisely because times and sentiments change. If you think the modern variants are closer to the truth than the originals, more power to you. Knowledge marches on! But it's still worth knowing that what you are passing on is modern thinking, not ancient wisdom.

Because it's not actually the second half of the saying (see above).

Um... Okay. Still, I mostly prefer the newer ones.

[Sithrak]

Um... Okay. Still, I mostly prefer the newer ones.No problem! That's why I ended with an entire paragraph justifying them. Older doesn't mean better, and original doesn't mean good, after all!

[Lord Torath]

Heh, I never actually heard that second part before.

I find it extremely unrelatable. Something being too curious for its own good is entirely plausible, easy to imagine. Resurrection following a reckless death... what the heck?It fits pretty well with the whole, "Cats have nine lives" thing, though. And the idea that the juicy tidbit that got it killed was so extraordinary not even death could keep it down is just too fun.

[Quibblicious]

But, that mean's duling Klingon Opera. I don't think the world is ready for that.

You'd better brace yourself... it's coming...

Q

[Quibblicious]

And somehow, we've gone from discussing whether or not Roy has taken the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, to Klingons dueling via opera. All because of Bards.

Truly, Bards are the life of the party, and of the Party. But in Soviet Russia, Bard Finds You.

We are truly amazing. or amusing.

Something like that.

Q

[JumboWheat01]

We are truly amazing. or amusing.

Something like that.

Q

I think the term you're looking for is "spoony." :smalltongue:

[Goblin_Priest]

It fits pretty well with the whole, "Cats have nine lives" thing, though. And the idea that the juicy tidbit that got it killed was so extraordinary not even death could keep it down is just too fun.

More or less. "Curiosity kills the cat" implies that death is the inevitable outcome of (excessive) curiosity. Sure, the idea that "cats have nine lives" implies some form of ressurection, but with the very explicit caveat that it only works so many times, and thus each life remains valuable. "Curiosity brought it back" implies it is the inevitable outcome of death by curiosity, thus negating the limit of 9, and all importance of the death. These ideas do not seem compatible to me.

And what's the moral, anyways? Go get yourself killed, it's worth it? That's not really a message that society tends to promote. After all, we don't endlessly resurrect, we don't even have 9 lives. Satisfaction won't bring us back.

And saying it to a young child might just incite it to reckless behavior, and dramatic outcomes.

Plus, with a quick look-up on wikipedia, that extra tidbit doesn't even seem to be a legitimate part of the idiom...

[8BitNinja]

I think the term you're looking for is "spoony." :smalltongue:

There are several bards I would describe with that term.

[Lord Torath]

More or less. "Curiosity kills the cat" implies that death is the inevitable outcome of (excessive) curiosity. Sure, the idea that "cats have nine lives" implies some form of ressurection, but with the very explicit caveat that it only works so many times, and thus each life remains valuable. "Curiosity brought it back" implies it is the inevitable outcome of death by curiosity, thus negating the limit of 9, and all importance of the death. These ideas do not seem compatible to me.

And what's the moral, anyways? Go get yourself killed, it's worth it? That's not really a message that society tends to promote. After all, we don't endlessly resurrect, we don't even have 9 lives. Satisfaction won't bring us back.

And saying it to a young child might just incite it to reckless behavior, and dramatic outcomes.

Plus, with a quick look-up on wikipedia, that extra tidbit doesn't even seem to be a legitimate part of the idiom...Moral? I've usually encountered it issued as a threat. "Don't dig too far into my obviously-non-shady past or you'll be sorry". In which case, the rejoinder seems completely appropriate: "You don't scare me."

I confess, I've only seen the "satisfaction" addition once. Alianna of Pirate Swoop (daughter of Master George Cooper and Sir Alana of Olau and Pirate Swoop - and Trebond as well, though that's been left out lately) uttered it to people she was traveling with. (Tamora Pierce's Trickster's Choice - great book, give it a read). But I really like it.

The moral of "Curiosity killed the cat" is that you should be content with what you know. I will quite happily counter that with "No, you shouldn't!" any time I hear it. "Learn something new! It'll be worth it!" is a much better message in my not-so-humble opinion.