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Penelomeeg
2017-04-10, 02:22 PM
I'm playing a low charisma character for the first time in my tabletop ventures. The character has an 8 charisma but a 16 wisdom and a 13 intelligence. My intent was to make her timid and somewhat naive without a lot of social grace but im wondering if that goes against her high wisdom.

What are some examples and ideas on how these mental stats might come into play?

Geddy2112
2017-04-10, 02:43 PM
In a world where 10 is an average ability score, 8-12 are within a range that are fairly normal for humans and while they are above or below average, not all that notably so. A 16 is far above average, so that would be most notable.

Low charisma does not always mean low confidence, lack of social skills, or being a boorish monster people hate being around. It could be a lack of empathy, aloofness, stoicism, or a lack of desire to connect with others.

With a high wisdom score, decently high intelligence score, and low charisma, your character probably puts a lot of stock in worldly experience and logic, but little in emotions. A good example would be a highly skilled tradesman. Somebody who can explain more than the average person about the mechanical workings of their trade, but in the end favors the common sense approach and the why it works over the how. Their focus in their trade might make them distant and unable to relate to others (unless they also do the same thing).

ShaneMRoth
2017-04-10, 02:57 PM
One illustrative example of a person with relatively high Intelligence and Wisdom and also low Charisma is the fictionalized version of Larry David on Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Larry is a guy who just somehow finds a way to rub people the wrong way. The real Larry David loosely bases the character on his personal experiences, but it is exaggerated for dramatic and comedic effect. His character does stupid things from time to time, but the stupidity usually takes the form of him being too clever by half.

And also, it's a good show.

thamolas
2017-04-10, 03:21 PM
Also, just because your character can comprehend a wise course of action, doesn't mean that she'll necessarily act on it.

I agree with ShaneMRoth about Larry David on Curb. Good example.

Segev
2017-04-10, 03:28 PM
One way to play such a person is very observant and a good judge of people, intelligent and on the ball with a good memory and sound (but not perfect) logic skills (thus, logic is oft trumped by intuition, but both tend to work together well)...but with a very direct manner. Probably somebody who is lovable when observed, but abrasive to those with whom he directly interacts. Abrupt and direct when a little easing into a topic and some delicacy might have been better received.

Not impatient, but prone to cutting to the chase rather than permitting dithering, since he can see the crux of the situation clearly and simply wants to get everybody on the same page.

Beelzebubba
2017-04-10, 04:31 PM
I have a similar thing with a Druid; killer Wisdom, decent Intelligence, average Charisma. The type of person you consult on a job, but don't put in charge of it.

There's the character of Cassandra from Greek drama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassandra. She prophesied the future, but was cursed so nobody believed her. So, you could have weak body language, a shy demeanor, that makes it look like you have no force behind your convictions, so you don't really influence much.

Or, you just are unexciting. People may like you, but they don't really get 'on fire' to follow you or excited to join you in things.

Clistenes
2017-04-10, 06:39 PM
A person with high Wisdom, good Intelligence and low Charisma probably is somewhat introverted, and not good at communication, but she will probably not suffer from self-esteem issues.

Being aware of her shortcomings, she will keep quiet until she has something relevant to say, and will wait for the right moment to speak to the right person. She will be able to sense who will listen to her, and will most likely take that person away from the others and explain her mind carefully.

She will probably be way better at explaining strategies or technical stuff or transmitting knowledge than at speaking about her feelings or asserting herself. Then again, high Wisdom probably means she knows when to shut up to avoid getting into trouble or making an ass of herself...

Strangers will probably underestimate or ignore her, but friends (those who know her well) will probably respect and appreciate her and her contributions. If she's good aligned her friends will probably tend to take her for granted, and sometimes to patronize her. If she's evil they will probably have trouble trusting her and will find her somewhat unsavory, but they will still listen to her imput...

In a hierarchical group or organization, her natural place is as the unthreatening "right hand woman" to the charismatic leader, whispering ideas to his or her ear, and letting him or her to implement and to carry them to fruition.

If the leader doesn't listen to her, then she will probably retreat to the background and either offer her counsel to close friends within the organization or just quietly seek her own survival and pursue her own benefit.

If she's pushed to a position of leadership, she will rely in a trusted, strong and charismatic second in command to keep the organization/troop/whatever in line. A sergeant, so to say...

dps
2017-04-10, 07:58 PM
I'm playing a low charisma character for the first time in my tabletop ventures. The character has an 8 charisma but a 16 wisdom and a 13 intelligence. My intent was to make her timid and somewhat naive without a lot of social grace but im wondering if that goes against her high wisdom.

What are some examples and ideas on how these mental stats might come into play?

8 is not really that low. Sounds like you rolled up John Adams.

scalyfreak
2017-04-10, 09:16 PM
One way to play such a person is very observant and a good judge of people, intelligent and on the ball with a good memory and sound (but not perfect) logic skills (thus, logic is oft trumped by intuition, but both tend to work together well)...but with a very direct manner. Probably somebody who is lovable when observed, but abrasive to those with whom he directly interacts. Abrupt and direct when a little easing into a topic and some delicacy might have been better received.

Not impatient, but prone to cutting to the chase rather than permitting dithering, since he can see the crux of the situation clearly and simply wants to get everybody on the same page.

So... Dr Gregory House?

Penelomeeg
2017-04-10, 09:29 PM
One example I'm seeing a lot of in other forums that I like is Kashaw from critical role.

TeChameleon
2017-04-10, 10:07 PM
My longest-running character has a similar stat layout; come to think of it, I do play him a bit like House... he's an abrasive jerk who finds that the rest of the world moves at a (mental) snails' pace, and would much rather be in his lab fathoming the arcane secrets of the universe than picking up after everyone else... again.., but at the same time, he's not a fan of injustice, evil, etc., and finds that he's much happier when the source of said evil has been satisfactorily lit on fire.

The party tends to listen to what he has to say, but at the same time, they really try not to let him talk to anyone important :smalltongue:

sktarq
2017-04-10, 10:15 PM
Reallythere is no one way of playing a high wis, good int, 8 cha character

Timid is fine. Socially awkward is a possibility depending on how you play it. Will likely be rather observant so it would not be you missing things vs it being more like being introverted. You are not that much below average to be really notable.

A lot will depend on your starting skill choices. Things like lots of sense motive would clash with saying the wrong thing very often. Whereas if you max out Spot and Search plus physical skill she could be very aware and just not interested in people very much.

Penelomeeg
2017-04-10, 10:52 PM
I kind of have gotten a new grasp and concept of the character. She's from a family of stone masons in one of the our world's equivalent of high elf city states in the feywild. Its a very proper and high fantasy elvish society that has a loose social caste system where you are expected to find your place in life with your family and stick to it. As the type of elf she is tends to be more magically inclined her family uses some impressive wizardry to help craft stone and design buildings and structures for the city.

She as it turns out simply isn't able to cut it in her apprenticeship. No matter how hard she tries (and boy does she try) she can never grasp more than the most basic magics of her people outside of book knowledge and theory. Shes constantly patronized and told "some children take longer than others to reach their potential". Reminding her that at 19 she is essentially seen as a slow child to all of these plder elves who do not understand her frustration despirlte constantly throwong their opinions at her. And of course her older sister is a natural who can weave runes and shift stone in a way most grande architects would give up a limb for. And she is reminded of so by her parents. Every single day.

Being pushed into a role in life that she is inherently bad at and being judged/patronized for it in a snobbish society has left her bitter and with a bit of an attitude problem. She doesn't care for socializong or people much, and the fact that she can always tell how much they are secretly sneering at her doesn't help. She spends most of her time around people either watching or avoiding them, usually with a good book.

The kicker comes when she goes for a walk outside of the city and falls victim to the magic of the feywilds and finds herself taken off the path she was and forced to take shelter in a tomb she stumbles upon. The otherworldly godlike being of healing and revitalization inside has decided she will make a nice champion (without her consent of course because who ever cares about what she wants right?) And now here she is transported into some random library on the material plane with a group of humans shes never met as her only allies. No resources or a way to get back home, and some weird divine magic she isn't really sure what to do with.

Cue a bitter and abrasive snarky elf who while insightful and observant beyond belief with a caring heart beneath it all has learned that it's better to just not care about what people think to save yourself a lot of grief.

Kane0
2017-04-10, 11:55 PM
Edmund Blackadder.

Alternatively, Bernard Black.

scalyfreak
2017-04-11, 12:32 AM
Edmund Blackadder.

That is much better than my suggestion!

Though it also fits with Granny Weatherwax.

Clistenes
2017-04-11, 02:46 AM
That is much better than my suggestion!

Though it also fits with Granny Weatherwax.

No way Granny has low Cha. Her job is like 90 % manipulation, 9% midwifery and medicine and 1 % magic... And if we are speaking of force of personality... A cabal of vampires drank Weatherwax's blood in order to turn and control her, but her will and force of personality were so strong that they took some of her personality traits instead!

Also: If Granny needs to behave differently, she can; she has successfully passed for a nice old lady, a servant and a worldly lady.

scalyfreak
2017-04-11, 07:29 AM
Fair point.... and the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that all those witches have sky-high charisma, so that was really a horrible example. :smallbiggrin:

Grod_The_Giant
2017-04-11, 08:05 AM
Fair point.... and the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that all those witches have sky-high charisma, so that was really a horrible example. :smallbiggrin:
Right. If you're abrasive but people still listen to you, you have a high Charisma. Low Charisma doesn't necessarily mean you're unpleasant, just that, for whatever reason, you're not good at making yourself heard. I usually support "shy" or "awkward" for low Charisma over "rude."

Storm_Of_Snow
2017-04-11, 08:09 AM
I'd say all Blackadders' bar the 1st have high Charisma, and Granny Weatherwax is almost certainly well above average on all three of Int, Wis and Cha (although Nanny Ogg likely has the highest Cha of the original Lancre witches).

High Int/Wis, low Cha characters - first thought is the wallflower type, second is an academic who's a subject expert, but has never really had any life outside their studies, so they can't get a handle on other people, their clothes are clean but constantly dis-shevelled and old fashioned because they don't really pay attention to what they wear outside of the basic functionality and minimum standards they're required to adhere to, and so on.

Clistenes
2017-04-11, 10:19 AM
High Int/Wis, low Cha characters - first thought is the wallflower type, second is an academic who's a subject expert, but has never really had any life outside their studies, so they can't get a handle on other people,

A person with high Wisdom would understand other people very well. They would have trouble asserting themselves, making friends, influencing other people and getting to be taken seriously, but not because they don't "get" other people, but because they are bad as expressing themselves and projecting confidence.

Stealth Marmot
2017-04-11, 11:40 AM
I'm playing a low charisma character for the first time in my tabletop ventures. The character has an 8 charisma but a 16 wisdom and a 13 intelligence. My intent was to make her timid and somewhat naive without a lot of social grace but im wondering if that goes against her high wisdom.

What are some examples and ideas on how these mental stats might come into play?

Timid fits low charisma and high other mental stats just fine.

Naive does not fit when it comes to perceiving people, such as figuring if that guy is trying to swindle or cheat you, but it fits when it comes with what words to speak or when to say something. Not being able to find the right words or speak them correctly or when to butt in and say something without being rude fits.

ExLibrisMortis
2017-04-11, 11:53 AM
8 charisma is so close to the average, that it doesn't need to be reflected in your roleplaying. By all means, play a fairly timid/awkward/whatever character, but the most important thing is: keep it close to an average human. Of course, in a group of adventurers, an average human might quickly appear timid, but that's another matter :smalltongue:.

Segev
2017-04-11, 01:01 PM
So... Dr Gregory House?

Dr. House is more high Int, low Wis, and abysmal Cha. He doesn't read people well at all; he projects his own flaws onto them and then assumes he's reading them well. He's wrong more often than he's right, and he usually only gets to the right place through investigations that don't rely on knowing a thing about his patients as people. Or things he discovers by forcing his minions to do PI work. Even then, he's prone to disbelief if he finds that they would behave differently than he would.

scalyfreak
2017-04-11, 01:43 PM
As I evolve my perception of the Charisma stat, it occurs to me that very few main/leading characters in books, movies, games, etc, would have low charisma. House may be one of the exceptions, but the show makes it very clear that there are other valid reason his minions follow his lead and remain loyal (to a point).


Right. If you're abrasive but people still listen to you, you have a high Charisma. Low Charisma doesn't necessarily mean you're unpleasant, just that, for whatever reason, you're not good at making yourself heard. I usually support "shy" or "awkward" for low Charisma over "rude."

I suspect that if a person is never listened to, and their ideas and suggestions are never taken seriously, even though they are right almost all the time, he or she will over time become rather rude just because of how frustrating everyone else is. :smallamused:

Imagine that you have a great suggestion for what the group should do next. Imagine now that when you try to put forth this suggestion they listen patiently to you. After a few moments it becomes glaring obvious that they're not getting it.

So you try again.

They still don't get it.

Irritated by now, you try a third time, only to be interrupted and dismissed before you're halfway through.

This doesn't make you any less irritated, so you go quiet and listen to the rest of the group spend half an hour (clumsily?) reason their way through facts and draw conclusions you came to long before you formulated your suggestion in your head, and in the end... they come to the exact same suggestion you did.

The group congratulate themselves and each other on figuring out what you already told them twice. And they take full credit for your idea!

One week and three "war councils" later you have learned your lesson. Rather than wasting time and breath, your contribution to these discussions is limited to muttering, just loudly enough to be heard, "I could have told you that an hour ago," as the conversation comes to a close.

denthor
2017-04-11, 01:53 PM
sit alone in the tavern no hellos good bye turn on your heels abruptly. I had a halfling with a 6 chrasima rolled 4 plus 2 for halfling anoyed my DM for playing it right he even asked what the chr. was when I told him he said you play it right

He was not happy but agreed that is how it should have been roleplayed

KnightOfV
2017-04-14, 09:35 PM
Your character is basically Belle (Beauty and the Beast). Smart, well aware you don't fit in, and fine with that. You can read people very well, and know not to waste your time with shallowness. People who are close to you will appreciate your insightful nature and strong will. But you're never going to be popular with the masses, and generally, people just find you odd or quirky.

Your ideas are good, but you come off as 'intellectual' or 'eccentric' and no one wants to listen to you.

As opposed to the idiot, high CHA Gastons of the world who have extremely dumb ideas, but can rally scores of people to follow them- even into danger or cruelty.