Apprentice feat from DMG2

[logic_error]

Another Optimisation question, is the apprentice feat worth it?

It gives you access to new skills that you might not have. For wizards, e.g. you get UMD which is sweet. Also, as a wizard (you see where I am going with this) you get a free spell first level and more every level to add to your book! Combine this with your Collegiate wizard you have essentially all the good spells for your school in the book. Of course the investment is heavy, but let's say that you want to get into the mage of the arcane order class, you can now choose to become a Mentor *there* (at the order) at level 5 (Swapping the feat) and get some other sweet skills and more importantly get an APPRENTICE. if you give him your favorite spells, you can use the Cooperative spell feat that was basically a waste, to all of a sudden make your favourite save spells have DC + 1, by forcing your apprentice to come to adventures with you and just letting him "learn" by casting his spells wth you. This is situational of course but at least fills in the void created by the Cooperative casting feat.

So the real crux of the matter: Is it worth it? The extra spell till level 3 is assuredly and easily replaced later with money. So looking back this all looks like a fluff. has anyone tried to use this for further optimisations?

[ColorBlindNinja]

It's a pretty heavy feat investment. If you're playing a human Wizard with flaws, it could be worth it. You might have some trouble using UMD with a low Charisma score.

Edit: You could use Sanctum Spell spell combined with an Acorn of Far Travel instead of Cooperative Spell to raise you spell DCs. Or just go all the way and take Red Wizard/Hathran.

[death390]

apprentice is one of the ways to get skills access that you normaly woulnd't that you need for a prestige class if you only need a skill or two (assuming both given are useful) and you dont want to dip a level. of course if your fine dipping a level and just need skills dip factorum cause it has all of them.

[Rebel7284]

Useful class skill early, limited leadership later. It's a pretty great feat.

[Venger]

it's absolutely worth it when there's no other way to get class skills. when you're done with it see if your gm will let you retrain it into something good since you're using the phb2

[logic_error]

Useful class skill early, limited leadership later. It's a pretty great feat.


it's absolutely worth it when there's no other way to get class skills. when you're done with it see if your gm will let you retrain it into something good since you're using the phb2

These are great answers. I think combined with the RP part Apprentice is really great for me! Thanks :).

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's worth it for the UMD as a class skill alone if you make proper use of it, as long as your build isn't feat starved.

It's not the first feat i'd take, but at least a contender for the 2nd or 3rd (if you allow flaws), depending on the campaigns access to magic items.
Because UMD is incredibly useful. More useful than many other feats imo.

[logic_error]

It's worth it for the UMD as a class skill alone if you make proper use of it, as long as your build isn't feat starved.

It's not the first feat i'd take, but at least a contender for the 2nd or 3rd (if you allow flaws), depending on the campaigns access to magic items.
Because UMD is incredibly useful. More useful than many other feats imo.

Hmm! Can you please describe how to use UMD effectively? I guess one can use it to cast Divine spells from the scrolls and wands. is there anything else less obvious and powerful?

[ZamielVanWeber]

If Dragon Magazine is on the table Wedded to History (Golden Ager) will also give you access to UMD and make it much harder to suffer a mishap. Apprentice otherwise is great mostly because the things that granted nice broad skill access died in 3.0.

[death390]

Uses of UMD that no body really thinks about.

Activating item that requires a class feature. for example chalice that turns, turn undead attempts into holy water can be used even if you don't have turn undead. or how about those relics that require a spell slot?

Items that harm you if you don't have the appropriate alignment? emulate the appropriate alignment so it doesn't harm you.

how about dwarf only item? Emulate race (dwarf).

here is the actual text.


Emulate an Alignment

Some magic items have positive or negative effects based on the user’s alignment. Use Magic Device lets you use these items as if you were of an alignment of your choice. You can emulate only one alignment at a time.
Emulate a Class Feature

Sometimes you need to use a class feature to activate a magic item. In this case, your effective level in the emulated class equals your Use Magic Device check result minus 20. This skill does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate items as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate Use Magic Device check (see above).
Emulate a Race

Some magic items work only for members of certain races, or work better for members of those races. You can use such an item as if you were a race of your choice. You can emulate only one race at a time.


Use Magic Device DCs Task Use Magic Device DC
Activate blindly 25
Decipher a written spell 25 + spell level
Use a scroll 20 + caster level
Use a wand 20
Emulate a class feature 20
Emulate an ability score See text
Emulate a race 25
Emulate an alignment 30

[Zanos]

IIRC the real quality in this feat is the option that allows you craft stuff at a reduced cost.

[logic_error]

IIRC the real quality in this feat is the option that allows you craft stuff at a reduced cost.

Hmm. Good observation.

[ColorBlindNinja]

One thing I like to do with Apprentice (Entertainer) is to get Perform (Dance) as a class skill and then take Spelldancer.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Hmm! Can you please describe how to use UMD effectively? I guess one can use it to cast Divine spells from the scrolls and wands. is there anything else less obvious and powerful?
Mostly it's making sure you actually use UMD. I've seen people buy max ranks and then never use it because they were the type who can't part with a consumable or charged item without agonizing over it forever.

As for things to use it with? Sorcerer-only spells like Wings of Cover (which makes a great option for a wand chamber) and spells from all other class lists, not just cleric.
You can't only use wands and scrolls, you can also use a Runestaff to get access to any spell that's on an arcane list (provided you can craft/buy one) at your CL/DC. The Wu Jen list is great for this.
Body outside Body? Giant Size? Those two are worth a feat by themselves for a gish.

Then there's the common stuff that even clerics cast from scrolls/wands. CLW, Lesser Vigor, Remove Disease, you get the idea. But there's more low-level cleric spells that don't depend on CL/DC.
Some examples:
Resurgence(SpC) lets someone you touch reroll a save against an ongoing effect. That can save your ass even at high levels.
Sign(SpC) grants +4 untyped to your next initiative check and last 10 minutes even at CL 1. That's enough if you know a fight is coming.
Tyche's Touch(LEoF) grants a +4 sacred bonus to your next save, then +3, then +2, then +1. It lasts 24 hours by default.

You should look through the books you have available for 1st and 2nd level spells that make good casts from scrolls/wands. There's quite a few, and at higher levels the costs are negligible for 1st-2nd level scrolls/wands.
Keep in mind that you can farm all that out to your (raven or improved) familiar too. They use your skill ranks. Taking UMD turns it from an XP bomb that can get a few casts from Imbue Familiar with Spell into a mini-cleric.

You can also emulate an alignment requirement. The biggest example of that one is probably the Enveloping Pit (MIC). A super-sized Portable Hole for a fraction of the price? Sure.
Some really good and affordable gear has alignment requirements. Using it anyway is a benefit no matter how you look at it.


IIRC the real quality in this feat is the option that allows you craft stuff at a reduced cost.
It's only 10% of raw material cost, so it's only a 5% reduction for magic items. It's not nothing, but unless you craft a lot it's probably not enough to spend a feat on.

[Deadline]

As others have mentioned, Apprentice is a pretty good feat. It's often taken to get a skill as a class skill without having to dip for it. There are only a few other feats that do that (Educated[ECS] and Keeper of Forbidden Lore[FCI] come to mind). The Skill Training feat is the most ideal for it, but it's intended for an alternative system from Unearthed Arcana, and it's probably a hard sell for most GMs.

[Troacctid]

It's a great feat in general—gives you extra class skills that you need for whatever reason while also giving +2 to a save and +2 to a good skill—but I don't like it as much on Wizards. The extra spells known just aren't as valuable, and you don't need UMD for most of the best items anyway. Sorcerers get a much better benefit out of it, especially given the combo with Bloodline feats or Sand Shaper.

[Rijan_Sai]

IIRC the real quality in this feat is the option that allows you craft stuff at a reduced cost.

I recently for fun built a character with this usage of the feat that is basically a gestalt of Gazebo Jones//Artificer (whether the character actually sees the light of a game is another issue...)

Use the apprenticeship to get 10% cost reduction on all crafting (including magic item crafting!) And then, at level 5, use the mentor as the sacrifice to get into Thrall of Juiblex! Useful in so many ways!