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unseenmage
2017-04-10, 09:18 PM
Assuming one already knows where the dragon lives, and assuming the dragon isn't of an alignment to eat one on the spot, how does one go about politely calling on a dragon's home?

How to visit a paranoid homebody who wields draconic might?


The original quandry was for an old gnome artificer character of mine who wished to visit (perhaps even court!) a Faerun dragon known for valuing artifice as much as he did.

Edit: After some digging I finally found the dragon in question. And it was knowledge she valued, not artifice. Turns out she went unpublished except for this pair of posts on Candlekeep (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj51cbQ3Z_TAhUJ9YMKHU9jCKAQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.candlekeep.com%2Ftopic.asp% 3FTOPIC_ID%3D11779%26whichpage%3D3&usg=AFQjCNG15raSIy5SZ2TYEf1tu-VseZF3mQ&sig2=_TpgR7WGOF48xAZ8Kq8spA).

JNAProductions
2017-04-10, 09:21 PM
Send a Sending spell, animal messenger, or similar spell ahead of yourself-something harmless that lets the dragon know to expect company.

Bring a tribute-some gold or gems, maybe a delighted meal or something.

Zanos
2017-04-10, 09:28 PM
I bring the heads of their enemies. If they don't like that I bring their heads to their other enemies. Eventually you'll fine someone who wants to parlay.

ryu
2017-04-10, 09:31 PM
I bring the heads of their enemies. If they don't like that I bring their heads to their other enemies. Eventually you'll fine someone who wants to parlay.

Fun method. Dangerous, but fun.

Ellrin
2017-04-10, 10:26 PM
Bring a tribute-some gold or gems, maybe a delighted meal or something.

I've found that pizza works better.

At least, assuming you're giving the tribute to the DM.

Kelb_Panthera
2017-04-10, 11:13 PM
Depends on the dragon, really.

Generally, ere on the side of formal.

Show up with enough people in bright regalia that you can't be seen as trying to sneak up on it, but not so many or so heavily armed that it could be seen as an assault. Have a herald approach first and announce you with a request to meet. If it declines, leave some minor tribute and contact information and go. After a few weeks, try again. Rinse and repeat until either it accepts or kills someone. Or just until it accepts if you're of a certain mindset and have enough minions.

Calthropstu
2017-04-10, 11:23 PM
Polymorph into a dragon of the same type.

atemu1234
2017-04-10, 11:40 PM
Polymorph into a dragon of the same type.

If it's a good dragon, sure. Otherwise they might be a bit... territorial.

gooddragon1
2017-04-10, 11:46 PM
If it's a good dragon, sure. Otherwise they might be a bit... territorial.

I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I'd rather just have a sending spell request.

Zanos
2017-04-11, 12:36 AM
I mean, I wouldn't mind, but I'd rather just have a sending spell request.
Well if we're courting, one of us is going to have to get polymorphed.

atemu1234
2017-04-11, 12:44 AM
Well if we're courting, one of us is going to have to get polymorphed.

Found the weakling.

gooddragon1
2017-04-11, 12:56 AM
Well if we're courting, one of us is going to have to get polymorphed.

Visit maybe... court no. Sending definitely helps to set expectations too.

animewatcha
2017-04-11, 02:51 AM
Whatever you do. Be sure to have a contingent Prestidigitation spell handy to make party members within 10 feets ( or more if you extend the area in whatever way ) to make fellow party members spell tastier in case things go south.

logic_error
2017-04-11, 03:25 AM
I bring the heads of their enemies. If they don't like that I bring their heads to their other enemies. Eventually you'll fine someone who wants to parlay.

+1 for style. You better be level 13 to try this :P. This is what I would do to once I realise I can pull it off.

But in general, there is a lot of sound advice here. There are spells like Dragon Ally, that have the same dilemma, and there too the answer is, be polite and be generous. Dragons don't like to be threatened and their egos are easily bruised.

legomaster00156
2017-04-11, 08:30 AM
How does one politely greet a king, a President, a general? Apply the same principles to meeting a dragon as you would to meeting another powerful authority figure. Let them know ahead of time (Sending or something), do your homework on the subject, speak with respect, bring an appropriate gift.

flappeercraft
2017-04-11, 08:56 AM
If the dragon is Metallic I would try having the diplomat/messenger be of metallic draconic descent such as a Silverbrow human, a draconic creature, a half-metallic dragon or possibly even a Sorcerer although that might be a bit of a stretch right there. I would not try this with chromatic dragons as they would normally be depicted as highly territorial and possibly hostile towards other chromatics that don't further their goals. Also maybe even try making the visit useful to the dragon to further his own goals as that he would be more likely to accept. Something like the spell Divine insight or Glibness could help if things start to go south to try win him back regardless of the dragon. Also try learn about your dragon and what they are interested in like if they are interested in magical items or spells over their hoards (pretty sure that matches with Loredrake Achetype IIRC) then maybe the scroll of a custom spell could be useful or something similar.

Jowgen
2017-04-11, 08:58 AM
If you wanted to be real polite, then rather than just notifying the dragon of your visit, then you ought to ask permission to come visit. Like, request to make an appointment. I mean, as far as you're concerned, this most important dragon has important visitors all the time, so it's only courteous to ask whether he can fit you into his schedule.

Also, rather than use magic to contact, I'd send a courier. A Pseudodragon perhaps, hired to deliver your request for an audience and return with a response.

ExLibrisMortis
2017-04-11, 09:15 AM
If you wanted to be real polite, then rather than just notifying the dragon of your visit, then you ought to ask permission to come visit. Like, request to make an appointment. I mean, as far as you're concerned, this most important dragon has important visitors all the time, so it's only courteous to ask whether he can fit you into his schedule.

Also, rather than use magic to contact, I'd send a courier. A Pseudodragon perhaps, hired to deliver your request for an audience and return with a response.
I'd also suggest asking for permission. Implicitly, you admit that the dragon's territory is not to be violated, which a dragon generally appreciates. The courier should carry some sort of gift, anything that's clearly not dangerous (not magical), moderately valuable, but not a bribe. I'm not sure whether edibles are a good idea. I suppose it sets the mood to something less businesslike (as opposed to a logo-printed Colossal pen, or something), but may I suggest a highly decorative scroll of some rare and thematic spell?

Celestia
2017-04-11, 01:41 PM
How to Politely Visit a Dragon: A Practical Guide
By: Cedric Halfbeard, Skald of the Eighth Goat

As a popular and world renowned bard, I have had many meetings and visits with numerous important persons, including dragons. I have made the acquaintance of seven dragons in my time, and all but one have been eminently pleased. (I accidentally destroyed most of the last one's hoard with a swarm of dire rabbits that were actually rust monsters in desguise, but that's a long story.) Also, my last book, So Your Fighter Got Turned into a Ghoul: Seeing the Upside, sold very well, I might add. So, as anyone fan plainly see, I am the most qualified to write this book, and my advice should be regarded with much respect. Now that that's been established, onwards!


Step One: The Preparation

Dragons are old, much older than you. They have an immeasurable amount of time and patience, and if you are anyone worthy of speaking to, they've already learned about you. And you can't meet them at such a disadvantage. Your first step is research. Luckily, this is easy: just tell your pet wizard to do it. (You will need to get a wizard if you don't already have one.) Your wizard should learn everything there is to know about the species of dragon and that dragon, specifically. Meanwhile, you can hang out in the local tavern and tell the wenches all your glorious tales. Once the wizard is finished, you will need to have him tell you all the relevant information. You may have to force the wizard to summarize; they have a tendency to blabbering on about unimportant details.

The next part is a bit more difficult. Once you know about the dragon, you'll need to scout the area. Your wizard should have found out where, exactly, the dragon lives and what it considers its territory. Stay safely outside of that area and send in the rogue to investigate. If you don't have a rogue, the fighter will do in a pinch. Make sure your wizard scries on the rogue or fighter the whole time so that you can see what's going on. It will also allow you to flee in time if your scout gets caught.


Step Two: The Invitation

Now, once you've replaced your fallen comrade (If you need help, read my book Gaining the Upper Hand: Finding the Right Party Members), it is time to secure an invitation. You can't just waltz into a dragon's cave. It will see that as a threat and attack, just like a cornered animal. Instead, you need to send a representative. Luckily, most towns and cities are teeming with peasants so poor that they'll do anything for a few coins. (A nifty trick is to disguise copper coins as those of a higher value. You can find other such tips and hints in my book Cedric's Guide of Tips, Tricks, and Traps.)

Give the peasant a letter (make sure it's large enough for the dragon to read) and a gift to give to the dragon. This is tricky because you want to find a gift that is as cheap as possible without the dragon realizing it and that the greedy peasant won't steal. My advice is to give food. The wizard should know what dragons eat. Make sure you pick something you don't have to buy. The farms should have some animals laying around for you to take.

The letter is important. Make sure you fill it with compliments. Dragons are incredibly arrogant and egotistical, and buttering them up is a good start. If your wizard did the research as well as he was supposed to, you should even have some ideas for personal compliments that the dragon will surely appreciate more. If you don't know how to write in draconic, pawn this job off on the wizard. The letter should also state that you wish to visit, and that the dragon shouldn't be worried about you and your party. Describe yourselves so that the dragon knows what you look like and doesn't attack accidentally.

If the peasant doesn't return, you should send another. The first one may have gotten lost or killed on the way. If the second peasant doesn't return, then the dragon probably killed them, and you should leave the country. Otherwise, you should receive some sort of response from the dragon confirming your appointment.


Step Three: The Approach

Dragons are crafty and underhanded, so don't just walk into the cave. It could be the set up for a trap. Send the rogue in first to scout out again. If the rogue doesn't return, leave the country. Otherwise, it's likely safe to continue. Again, though, you need to be careful. You don't want to go in unarmed, but you also don't want to appear as a threat. I suggest having the wizard make your weapons invisible. The dragon won't see them, but they'll still be easily accessible if things turn violent. You should also wear a handsome and expensive outfit. This way the dragon thinks that you are an important individual and will be more pliable and willing to talk. Don't let your party members dress up, though. The dragon needs to know that you're in charge. Lastly, you may want to prepare further by having your spellcasters cast their defensive spells on you incase things turn south.


Step Four: The Diplomacy

Finally, we are at the heart of it all, the reason for this guide: the meeting, proper. Here is where you shine. You must win the dragon over with your wit, your guile, and your charm. A dragon is a tough nut to crack, and you may not feel you're ready. Surely, you'll never be as smooth and charismatic as I, but with enough magical objects and enchanted items, you can come close. I cannot say which items, specifically, you should look for as I have never used them, myself, but I can't hold your hand the whole time, anyway.

Now, to get to the important part: what to say. First, start with several more compliments to the dragon. This should help ingratitude it to you. You can never compliment it too much. Keep your distance, but don't make it look like you're keeping your distance. Next, spin tales about how much the dragon would benefit from working together with you and lay down a few subtle implications that doing otherwise would be a bad idea. Once the dragon is good and malleable, it should be like clay in your hands, and you can propose whatever proposition you came here for.

And that's it! You've successfully met with a dragon and accomplished your goal. And in the future, it should be much easier to approach this same dragon again. Congratulations!

If you liked this guide, make sure to check out the rest of my books, available anywhere books are sold.

Gildedragon
2017-04-11, 02:24 PM
A solid tactic for building rapport with a dragon:
1) Find out what games they like. Something like chess that can be played by correspondence.
2) gift them a set and a sending stone for moves to be sent and received remotely
Attached to the board is a note explaining you seek a play companion
3) get VERY good at the game.
4) lose at the game. Lose by a narrow margin and don't make it obvious you are losing. This will take lots of ranks in bluff, and will be harder than just winning. You want the dragon to feel challenged. And you must be able to sense when the dragon plays suboptimally (as they may try to lose to see if you're being sycophantic). You must win against those moves... While still leaving the dragon avenues to rescue their victory. this will require a lot of ranks in sense motive
5) after a couple years of nail-biting games, mention you will be in the area, mayhap you could meet in person

lylsyly
2017-04-11, 02:42 PM
How to Politely Visit a Dragon: A Practical Guide
By: Cedric Halfbeard, Skald of the Eighth Goat


Positively Priceless, however, I would not want to be a rogue in your party :smallbiggrin:

ExLibrisMortis
2017-04-11, 04:23 PM
A solid tactic for building rapport with a dragon:
1) Find out what games they like. Something like chess that can be played by correspondence.
2) gift them a set and a sending stone for moves to be sent and received remotely
Attached to the board is a note explaining you seek a play companion
3) get VERY good at the game.
4) lose at the game. Lose by a narrow margin and don't make it obvious you are losing. This will take lots of ranks in bluff, and will be harder than just winning. You want the dragon to feel challenged. And you must be able to sense when the dragon plays suboptimally (as they may try to lose to see if you're being sycophantic). You must win against those moves... While still leaving the dragon avenues to rescue their victory. this will require a lot of ranks in sense motive
5) after a couple years of nail-biting games, mention you will be in the area, mayhap you could meet in person
I like this. Time-consuming, but very solid. Bit of a pain to RP though, unless you and your DM are into chess (slash go, checkers, tic-tac-toe).



How to Politely Visit a Dragon: A Practical Guide
By: Cedric Halfbeard, Skald of the Eighth Goat
+1. Next time I need a bard, I'll use Cedric. Is he free-range? Some dragons care about that, you know.

Gildedragon
2017-04-11, 04:37 PM
I like this. Time-consuming, but very solid. Bit of a pain to RP though, unless you and your DM are into chess (slash go, checkers, tic-tac-toe)..
Or MTG... Or whatever really
Though tbh it'd be more a series of opposed checks.

Bluff v Sense Motive both ways (whoever wins each gets a +2 to their Game checks
the game itself would be a: Profession (Gambler) or an Int/Wis based Perform (Game) v the same (maybe 2 or 3 rounds?)
The winner gets to push the result they want.
Something like that anyway. I'm sure I could write up some decent rules once I'm on my computer.

I could see the results of these games slowly moving the dragon's disposition.
So perhaps Perform (Int) would be the right skill. A successful bluff ups the result, as does a successful sense motive...
Subtract the dragon's roll.
Repeat 3 times to see the "result" of your perform check. Beat the dragon's roll by 5 each time and you're golden.

If disposition ever shifts to unfriendly it means the dragon has grown bored. If it shifts to hostile, the dragon no longer finds the game amusing and ceases contact with the PC

atemu1234
2017-04-11, 05:27 PM
Or MTG... Or whatever really
Though tbh it'd be more a series of opposed checks.

Bluff v Sense Motive both ways (whoever wins each gets a +2 to their Game checks
the game itself would be a: Profession (Gambler) or an Int/Wis based Perform (Game) v the same (maybe 2 or 3 rounds?)
The winner gets to push the result they want.
Something like that anyway. I'm sure I could write up some decent rules once I'm on my computer.

I could see the results of these games slowly moving the dragon's disposition.
So perhaps Perform (Int) would be the right skill. A successful bluff ups the result, as does a successful sense motive...
Subtract the dragon's roll.
Repeat 3 times to see the "result" of your perform check. Beat the dragon's roll by 5 each time and you're golden.

If disposition ever shifts to unfriendly it means the dragon has grown bored. If it shifts to hostile, the dragon no longer finds the game amusing and ceases contact with the PC

Well, better than turning D&D into a drinking game. Which I have done. It does not end well.

unseenmage
2017-04-11, 08:30 PM
How to Politely Visit a Dragon: A Practical Guide
By: Cedric Halfbeard, Skald of the Eighth Goat
...

Fantastic! Thank you. After a week of the kids, the wife, and myself all having the sick I needed to smile. :smallbiggrin:



A solid tactic for building rapport with a dragon:
1) Find out what games they like. Something like chess that can be played by correspondence.
...
An excellent suggestion as well.
This reminded me that the originating character had a brass dragon wyrmling for a childhood friend. And that his hometown held semiannual riddle and game contests with the neighboring dragons.

Thus his interest in a draconic (ahem) collaboration.

VoxRationis
2017-04-11, 08:42 PM
I like this. Time-consuming, but very solid. Bit of a pain to RP though, unless you and your DM are into chess (slash go, checkers, tic-tac-toe).

I feel like a dragon would definitely play go rather than chess. Go is about territorial control, which dragons are preoccupied with, and chess is mostly about people standing in other people's way and stopping them from moving, which would be nonsensical to a creature that flies.

Celestia
2017-04-11, 09:12 PM
I feel like a dragon would definitely play go rather than chess. Go is about territorial control, which dragons are preoccupied with, and chess is mostly about people standing in other people's way and stopping them from moving, which would be nonsensical to a creature that flies.
They're both actually abstractions of war and troop placement, just in different ways.

Gildedragon
2017-04-11, 09:29 PM
I feel like a dragon would definitely play go rather than chess. Go is about territorial control, which dragons are preoccupied with, and chess is mostly about people standing in other people's way and stopping them from moving, which would be nonsensical to a creature that flies.


They're both actually abstractions of war and troop placement, just in different ways.

It's all about which set is nicer. The chess set with the carved precious wood/semiprecious stone board with the ivory and onyx figures... or the go set with the mithril grid and moonstone and labradorite cabochon tiles.

Draconi Redfir
2017-04-11, 09:38 PM
Personally i'd just go with

1. keep your head bowed,
2. bring shiny gifts,
3. never make direct eye contact for longer then half a seccond (unless told to look him in the eye)
4. Don't get too close. Staying just outside his lair so it doesn't look like you a tresspassing is probably the best idea.
5. Lots of compliments to him and lots of insults to yourself.. "oh great dragon" "mighty slayer of kings" "This meager pesent unfit to polish your claws humbly requests an audiance" etc.

atemu1234
2017-04-12, 12:52 AM
Personally i'd just go with

1. keep your head bowed,
2. bring shiny gifts,
3. never make direct eye contact for longer then half a seccond (unless told to look him in the eye)
4. Don't get too close. Staying just outside his lair so it doesn't look like you a tresspassing is probably the best idea.
5. Lots of compliments to him and lots of insults to yourself.. "oh great dragon" "mighty slayer of kings" "This meager pesent unfit to polish your claws humbly requests an audiance" etc.

Come on, it's a sentient being, not a prideful labrador. It won't be inured to false praise and aversion of eye contact.

Pleh
2017-04-12, 10:34 AM
How to Politely Visit a Dragon: A Practical Guide
By: Cedric Halfbeard, Skald of the Eighth Goat

As a popular ...

*~*~* le elegant snippage *~*~*

... Now, to get to the important part: what to say. First, start with several more compliments to the dragon. This should help ingratitude it to you.

I believe the word Cedric was looking for here was, "ingratiate," as in, "perhaps I could, by my assisstence in this book's proofreading, ingratiate myself to you so as to afford myself a discount on the purchasing of this book?"

Red Fel
2017-04-12, 10:47 AM
Short version? Make like you're visiting Me. Doesn't matter if they're Good or Evil, Dragons are better than you, they're smarter than you, they're more powerful than you. So, you know, treat them like you'd treat me if you valued your life.

We're making assumptions, here.

Start with a gift. Knowing your target means knowing what they like. The various books mention what each Dragon appreciates. (I seem to recall, for example, that Gold Dragons hoard items of art and culture, such as paintings and sculptures.) Bringing a house gift is always a good decision.

Second, remember your place. Not every Dragon needs you to constantly grovel and debase yourself (some do, but not all), but each and every one is better than you in every way that counts. They know it, and you'd better keep it in your meaty mortal skull if you intend to keep your meaty mortal skull. Accordingly, keep a civil tongue in your head, remain respectful, never raise your voice, never make demands.

Also, don't waste a Dragon's time. They may have far more of it than you do, and the patience that comes with a lifetime that outlasts empires, but that doesn't mean they want to waste more than a minute on your pathetic mewling if they don't have to. They've heard it all before. Probably literally; you think you're the first disgusting lesser mortal to wander in seeking an audience? The most important? Do you actually think you're special?

So, in short: Bring tribute, be civil, don't make demands, don't waste time. Get in, speak quickly and to the point, and most importantly, do not leave until you are dismissed. Once in a Dragon's audience, you are in their domain; you are, in essence, their property, until they decide otherwise. Turning your back on a Dragon that hasn't turned you away is begging to be eaten for your insolence.

Then again, so is existing.

noob
2017-04-12, 11:01 AM
So basically just use the ritual of renaming to be named Jormengad and then ignore all the rules red fel gave?
Oops I forgot to use the ritual of renaming.

Maybe truename dispell the fact dragons are so much proud of themselves they consider themselves to be god while having a casting way inferior to their cr making them tasty targets for high level casters.
(red fel probably kills one hundred dragons each morning for the sweet xp because he is a straight caster at least or he even possibly progress twice his casting per level)

flappeercraft
2017-04-12, 11:05 AM
Here is a small perfect guide:
1. You don't
2. Create a Simulacrum of him and ask that one all you want.
3. Destroy the simulacrum before the real thing notices
4. Get the baator away

noob
2017-04-12, 11:07 AM
Here is a small perfect guide:
1. You don't
2. Create a Simulacrum of him and ask that one all you want.
3. Destroy the simulacrum before the real thing notices
4. Get the baator away
The typical 3.5 solution.
Better with an ice assassin if possible(100% of the memories instead of 50%) and then let the ice assassin plan to kill the original as indicated in the spell.

CIDE
2017-04-12, 11:14 AM
Here is a small perfect guide:
1. You don't
2. Create a Simulacrum of him and ask that one all you want.
3. Destroy the simulacrum before the real thing notices
4. Get the baator away

Intimacy with the dragon was implied early on. Hard to do with a simulacrum or ice assassin.

Zanos
2017-04-12, 11:16 AM
(red fel probably kills one hundred dragons each morning for the sweet xp because he is a straight caster at least or he even possibly progress twice his casting per level)
Yeah, I think Red Fel is just trying to dissuade us from farming dragons for their sweet triple treasure and XP so he can do it himself. The real way to "politely" visit a dragon is to find the closest tavern and scrape three other equal level adventurers off the walls. Figure it out from there. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness Good dragons like Golds are pretty much nothing like what Red Fel described. Golds are described "Good listeners who never have their patience tried" who intentionally seek out local gossip, and even if someone "advocates Evil" to them they just note it down for further investigation rather than immediately devouring them, so I'm pretty sure most of the Good dragons are not going to assault you, lethally or otherwise, because you didn't bring them stuff or accidentally made eye contact. Their courtship apparently is years of ethical and philosophical debate, so if you constantly treat yourself like you're inherently inferior around them they probably aren't going to respect you much. It varies a lot by dragon type, but if you were going for Gold specifically my initial tongue in cheek suggestion isn't terrible. If you've established yourself as a long time enemy of Evil, especially Chaotic Evil, a Gold dragon probably would be happy to see you.

So yeah, treating a Gold dragon like an equal, assuming you have some manner of ability yourself, isn't going to get you set on fire/eaten/obliterated/etc.

CIDE
2017-04-12, 11:30 AM
Yeah, I think Red Fel is just trying to dissuade us from farming dragons for their sweet triple treasure and XP so he can do it himself. The real way to "politely" visit a dragon is to find the closest tavern and scrape three other equal level adventurers off the walls. Figure it out from there. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness Good dragons like Golds are pretty much nothing like what Red Fel described. Golds are described "Good listeners who never have their patience tried" who intentionally seek out local gossip, and even if someone "advocates Evil" to them they just note it down for further investigation rather than immediately devouring them, so I'm pretty sure most of the Good dragons are not going to assault you, lethally or otherwise, because you didn't bring them stuff or accidentally made eye contact. Their courtship apparently is years of ethical and philosophical debate, so if you constantly treat yourself like you're inherently inferior around them they probably aren't going to respect you much. It varies a lot by dragon type, but if you were going for Gold specifically my initial tongue in cheek suggestion isn't terrible. If you've established yourself as a long time enemy of Evil, especially Chaotic Evil, a Gold dragon probably would be happy to see you.

So yeah, treating a Gold dragon like an equal, assuming you have some manner of ability yourself, isn't going to get you set on fire/eaten/obliterated/etc.

There's also Steel Dragons that live among mortals 'cause they enjoy their company. Granted, at that point it's more an issue of finding them then trying to approach them. Easy enough with True Seeing and divination at the right level. But for all you know the funny Dwarf you had a drink with last night was the dragon you're looking for.

Calthropstu
2017-04-12, 12:51 PM
Psh, everyone knows the proper way to greet a dragon is to smother yourself in barbecue sauce first.

AMX
2017-04-12, 12:54 PM
Does this dragon have minions?
Just ask the butler for an appointment.

CIDE
2017-04-12, 01:00 PM
Psh, everyone knows the proper way to greet a dragon is to smother yourself in barbecue sauce first.

What if the dragon is weird and likes ketchup on his/her steak?


Does this dragon have minions?
Just ask the butler for an appointment.

What's a likely candidate aside from the obvious kobold? Could be the lack of imagination on my DM's part (or any past DM) but no dragon I encountered had minions. And I've never had a chance to include dragons in my own campaigns; I reserve those for more optimized players since I don't do stupid meat-stick dragons.

Calthropstu
2017-04-12, 02:29 PM
What if the dragon is weird and likes ketchup on his/her steak?


Presdidigitation?

Zanos
2017-04-12, 02:32 PM
What if the dragon is weird and likes ketchup on his/her steak?
Do the world a favor and put that sad creature out of it's misery.

unseenmage
2017-04-12, 03:33 PM
Found the dragon that caused the initial query so long ago. Turns out she was an unpublished Wyrm of the North. Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden" can be found here on Candlekeep (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11779&whichpage=3) and spoilered below is her writeup copied from the same.

IIRC I stumbled on her googling locations in the Hordelands trying to figure out where to relocate a nation of Constructs. Wound up building them a DragonMech city in the least hospitable part of the Hordelands in the Endless Wastes. Never got around to playing through my character meeting said dragon. The game died. Later I took that GM and his friends through a game of my own wherein they were hired by the nation of constructs to find their, now missing, creator. In that game I had them encounter and interact with the many story elements that the prior GM and I had planned out playing through a sort of who-dunnit. The THAT game died before we got to the dragon too.

Again IIRC, my plan was for the character to build her a librarian construct which would gift itself to her along with a tome containing blueprints for magical archives and archive constructs. The GM and I had planned to have the character court her eventually but initially he was simply alerting her to the presence of his new construct nation north of her home and eventually seekingher aid in finding a means of protecting and preserving his most dangerous research.


Ouranalathra, "the Mistmaiden"

While the lands of the Easting Reach have for the moment been spared the wild speculations of the notorious Volo, there is never a shortage of ill-informed “bluntquills” who seek to lay bare the mysteries of the Realms, better left unrevealed. Such a one is Varloriath Nardrimm of Tsurlagol, or “Varlo” to his acquaintances, whose haphazard regard for the tenets of scholarship and learning has garnered him the disdain of many a sage and loremaster in the lands of the East. Nevertheless, the recent pryings of Varlo have uncovered long-hidden lore regarding the legendary Ouranalathra, the great mist dragon of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and it is this information that is presented below.

Ouranalathra was first noted in the annals of the Realms during the aptly named Year of the Mist Dragon (231 DR) when she spent the better part of three seasons challenging and destroying many dragons lairing in and around the lands of the Inner Sea. During this time she is known to have slain the red dragon Klithalrundrar “the Flamemaw”, the green wyrm Theslacramillos, in his demesne on a verdant, isolated isle off Altumbel, and the copper dragon Dizmallorthan “Shimmerwing” who laired in the Dragonjaw Mountains. In doing so, Ouranalathra exhibited powerful magic, including the ability to summon denizens of the Elemental Plane of Air and spells particularly suited to combating aerial opponents. Her dragon slayings meant that she swiftly amassed a huge hoard, which she removed to her own hidden lair deep within the Earthfast Mountains.

What few sages know is that Ouranalathra’s mastery of the Art dates to the time when she served as a steed to the archmage Malanthus Stormstaern, who was the Magister from 154 DR to his death in 177 DR.
The Magister Malanthus encountered Ouranalathra in the Year of the Bloodties (170 DR) when challenged by the evil wizard Osbarnus of Arrabar. Osbarnus had spell-charmed a number of creatures including Ouranalathra and sent them in force to assail the Magister so as to weaken him prior to Osbarnus challenging him for his office. When Malanthus shattered these bindings with powerful magic of his own, Ouranalathra offered herself to him as a steed so as to hunt down and slay her erstwhile captor. Over the next handful of years, Ouranalathra served Malanthus faithfully, even after they had slain the haughty Osbarnus in a mountain-toppling battle high above the Orsraun Mountains. In turn, the Magister worked mighty spells upon his companion dragon, augmenting Ouranalathra’s size, protections and spellcraft.

When Malanthus perished in 177 DR, Ouranalathra made his former safehold, mountain-top tower, deep within the Earthfast Mountains, her new abode. At that time, the orcs of Vastar held sway in the region and civilised, human settlement north of the Easting Coast (the lands stretching between the present-day cities of Procampur and Hlammach) was practically non-existent. Ouranalathra dwelt there in isolation for the next several decades, honing her skill in the Art and carefully exploring the greater Realms by means of a series of portals that the dead Malanthus had created.

When she felt her magic was strong enough, Ouranalathra left her lair to take to the skies, seeking a mate purely out of instinct and also curious to meet with a dragon of her own kind. Within a season, she espied from afar the mist dragon Shalamalauth, who had his lair in the coastline cliffs on Starmantle Bay, north of the Gulthmere Forest. After courting him and gaining his trust they became mates and Ouranalathra swiftly found herself the mother of a large brood of hatchlings. Tragedy struck the pair in 231 DR when Shalamalauth was slain by an unknown wyrm near the present-day Pirate Isles. This event set off Ouranalathra’s dragon hunt of that year as she unsuccessfully sought her mate’s slayer and received the sobriquet “the Mistmaiden” from observers and sages alike. Following that terrible time of battle and slaughter, Ouranalathra disappeared from the skies of the Inner Sea and retired to her tower abode, intent upon raising her brood of wyrmlings.

Alone but for the company of her progeny, Ouranalathra spent most of her time poring over the extensive library Malanthus had collected during the years both before and after he became the Magister (some of which is rumoured to have been stolen from Candlekeep itself, ere its mighty, present-day defences against such thievery had been put into place). As well as books on magery and spellcraft, Malanthus had an interest in history and the arts and had created a series of magical lecterns, which automatically turned book pages, ‘remembered’ where an individual had left off reading a particular book and had large, glass-like, oval lenses attached to them, which provided the continuous benefits of comprehend languages and true seeing spells. In this way, Ouranalathra devoured a torrent of knowledge, which awakened within her a thirst for more. Her collection of unread books dwindling daily, the Mistmaiden sought more knowledge and learning and through her spells, established magical contact with sages and other masters of learning around the Sea of Fallen Stars, including such luminaries as Arlith Karn, the Loremaster of Chancelgaunt, Mountar Graelyn, the hermit sage of Wystvale (a now-vanished village west of present-day Telpir) and Halthetes “the Highsage” of Cimbar.

Over time, Ouranalathra came into contact with the High Scrivener Eldrus Laelinth, then leader of the first great temple to Deneir in the Inner Sea lands, located near present-day Teziir. The Tometowers, as this temple complex came to be known, was built on a bluff overlooking present-day Teziir’s harbor and as the years passed, more and more worshippers made the journey to Tometowers and stayed there to live and work. In time, a small settlement was born near the temple and was named Teziir after a local beauty who married its first lord. Eldrus and Ouranalathra built a friendship based upon their love of learning and desire to safeguard the knowledge of the ages. In the Year of the Dusty Library (469 DR) however, Tometowers and fledgling Teziir were assailed by the armies of Myntharan the Magus King of Westgate as he sought to expand the holdings of Mynth, his self-styled realm. The approach of Myntharan’s armies threatened the safety of the collected knowledge contained at Tometowers, for he was known to have sacked the shrine of Deneir in Westgate when he came to power, keeping for himself what lore he deemed useful and destroying the rest so that no other individual could glean any benefit from it. Guided by visions from Deneir himself, Eldrus called upon the Mistmaiden to help move the library of Tometowers to her abode in the Earthfasts for safekeeping. This task was accomplished over the course of several weeks with the raising of a temporary portal and happened none too soon. The forces of the Magus King burned Tometowers and the surrounding settlement a scant tenday after the temple was emptied of its collection of books and scrolls, and many priests and monks were put to the sword in attempting to defend the temple grounds.

After the fall of Tometowers, countless Deneirrath sought and obtained permission from Ouranalathra to make the pilgrimage to the Earthfast Mountains to study the valuable books and tomes of lore stored within her lair. In those times, before humans and dwarves had conquered the ever-present threat of the orcs, this journey was fraught with danger and so Ouranalathra took it upon herself to safeguard and protect these devout travellers, shadowing them from the skies and slaying any monsters that came near. One of the first of these pilgrims, Jaloth Thornsarr, gave the name Iron Dragon Mountain to the peak upon which Ouranalathra’s tower abode sat, after he crested the final rise leading to his destination and espied the grey mist dragon, still as a statue, perched atop it, gazing at him intently. To him, she seemed like a dragon statue made of cold, grey iron and his account of their first meeting was widely dispersed throughout the faithful to encourage them to follow in his footsteps. As the winters passed, the dragon protector of “Laelinth’s Library” as this trove of lore was originally known to the faith of Deneir, gave up her home to the many pilgrims and priests who stayed on, ordering and maintaining the library and establishing a house of worship to the Lord of All Glyphs which is now the Master’s Library, greatest temple to Deneir in the Realms. She did so with a glad heart, tasking her now full-grown offspring with the temple’s protection, and taking to the skies seeking adventure and excitement.

Ouranalathra's Lair

Though she has several caverns in the Earthfast and Sunrise Mountains (caves that have their own pools of water but which she keeps otherwise bare), the Mistmaiden's lair is a nameless ruined tower that lies on the northern shore of Almorel, the Lake of Mists. She has sealed all the surface entrances to the chambers and extensive passageways beneath the tower and the only entrance is through an underground river that flows off the Lake of Mists to a large, deep pool in the biggest chamber of her lair. The surface portions of the ruined tower are home to a vast number of slime and ooze-type creatures, which thrive in the humid, constantly damp environment of the shores of Almorel. As such, the area is usually given a wide berth by all travellers.

Ouranalathra has made this underground complex her home only recently, discovering it by chance in the Year of the Catacombs (1308 DR). Whilst no adventuring bands have ever penetrated her lair, Ouranalathra and her presence in the lands east of the Sunrise Mountains are suspected to have come to the attention of at least three Red Wizards of Thay, although none of them have acted upon this knowledge. The Simbul, Mage-Queen of Aglarond, also knows of Ouranalathra’s close proximity to Thay and has long-considered manipulating or influencing the Mistmaiden into subtle confrontation with that land of evil mages for her own ends. The Simbul has told Elminster that Ouranalathra has amassed a sizable hoard of gems and magic, but her treasure holding does not measure up to the legendary hoard obtained from her year of dragon-slaying when his grandsire’s realm of Athalantar was still young. Elminster believes that she divided much of her hoard among her offspring before leaving Iron Dragon Mountain, binding them to service with the clergy there and neatly negating the treasure-lust of all young dragons. In this way, she avoided her children leaving the Master’s Library undefended whilst they roamed lands far afield in search of treasure to amass a hoard of their own. Her lair is known to have at least a half-dozen dragon-sized portals to places close to major centres of worship to the Lord of All Glyphs, including the Spirit Soaring in the Snowflake Mountains. Ouranalathra’s relationship with Cadderly, Chosen of Deneir, is currently in its infancy, she having met him and conversed with him only a few times in the last handful of years. Some observers postulate that the Mistmaiden may be envious of Cadderly’s special status with the Lord of All Glyphs, while others dismiss such idle talk, noting that their areas of interest and spheres of influence are governed more by their geographic location than any perceived rivalry.

The most interesting feature of Ouranalathra’s lair is that it appears to be a remnant of the ancient land of Raumathar, perhaps a military outpost or wizard’s residence. Early on, the Mistmaiden discovered several small, secret antechambers containing riches and strange magic, not seen in the lands of Faerûn for over a millennium. Her chief discovery was a bipedal automaton made of some unknown alloy that proved to be stronger than adamantine. Inscribed with three large, intricate runes, it demonstrated a broad range of very diverse immunities and spell-like abilities. After having the automaton described to him by the Simbul, Elminster postulates that the automaton is one of a group of such constructs created by a cabal of Raumathari wizards who stumbled upon a cache of Imaskari magic. Mentioned in one of the Old Mage’s tomes of lore, the wizards’ names are not noted, but they are said to have toiled over many years to create several such automatons, which they called “banedrinkers”. These constructs were said to absorb the power of lower planar beings they slew and were created to combat the fiend armies of their great enemy, Narfell. The one now controlled by the Mistmaiden may be the last surviving specimen in the Realms, for they were very rare even in those distant times.


Ouranalathra's Domain

From her underground lair, Ouranalathra roams the eastern edge of the Sunrise Mountains as far south as the Mountains of Copper and as far north as Winterkeep. To the east, the Mistmaiden has flown as far as fabled Kara-Tur but considers the area up to the Quoya Desert as her hunting ground. She seems to like cooler climes and avoids deserts and the hotter southern lands. She flies over the Inner Sea lands on a regular basis and has two or three uncharted, island outcrops in the Sea of Fallen Stars that she uses to sleep and rest, covering them and herself with an impenetrable mist.

The Mistmaiden regards the lands around the Lake of Mists to the foothills of the Sunrise Mountains as her exclusive territory. Peaceful travellers, merchant caravans and other harmless folk are allowed passage, but armed groups and other evil creatures are always watched and in the case of orcs and bandits, usually destroyed. The rest of the area she flies over she rules lightly by watching events more than enforcing her will.

The Deeds of Ouranalathra

The Mistmaiden keeps a low profile in the lands of the East and the Inner Sea, content in her role as the hidden protector of the clergy of Deneir and in her constant accumulation of learning, knowledge and lore. After leaving Iron Dragon Mountain, the Mistmaiden wandered the lands around the Sea of Fallen Stars, seeking to expand her knowledge and experience of humankind. In this regard, she resolved to adopt human shape and live a human “life”, doing so on at least a handful of occasions. She favoured the persona of a sage for hire or loremaster and lived in places such as Impiltur, Cormyr, Sembia and the Dalelands. She is believed to have served in the role of Undersage to the Royal Court of Impiltur in the reign of King Bellodar III of Impiltur, from 648 DR to the end of his reign in 673 DR. Similarly, she later assumed the guise of Astramas Revendimar, and was appointed the first of three Court Sages of Cormyr in the reign of King Baerovus, serving under the first Sage Most Learned of the Royal Court, Felindar Crownsilver. She served in this fashion until her ‘death’ in 1189 DR during the reign of King Pryntaler. Elminster believes that Ouranalathra met and befriended the Mage Royal Jorunhast of Cormyr before assuming the guise of Astramas and subsequently ‘looked in’ on the kingdom after his banishment, forging ties with The Silent Room, temple to Deneir in Suzail and its then leader, Loremaster Beldrath Opalnarr.

Since her last human “life” (as a sage-for-hire in Ordulin from circa 1332 DR to 1354 DR), Ouranalathra has devoted much of her time to a single area of study and instruction: elven High Magic. Fascinated by the different and communal nature of this form of spellcasting, and intrigued by the secrecy and hidden details surrounding it, the Mistmaiden has made earnest attempts to unlock the secrets of High Magic for non-elven spellcasters. To date, her efforts have met with abject failure, but the recent revelations regarding the genesis of the Rage of Dragons, a phenomenon that has plagued dragon-kind for millennia, and its link to High Magic have met with a redoubling of her efforts. Both Laeral and Alustriel believe that she will make little if any progress in her ongoing researches but also note that should she and her magical strivings come to the personal attention of Mystra that all this may change in an eye blink. A dragon wielding High Magic is a sobering and sombre thought, and something to keep very close attention to as the years roll on, Elminster has commented dryly.

Whilst her magical researches continue apace, the Mistmaiden’s other role as self-proclaimed protector of the faith of Deneir has dominated her activities throughout the lands about the Sea of Fallen Stars over many years. Rarely showing herself, and cloaked in a magical, shroud of mist that does not reveal her true form, Ouranalathra is known to have defended a caravan belonging to the Three Green Falcons trading coster out of Proskur from the attacks of Zhentarim-sponsored brigands south of Sunset Vale in 1359 DR. In doing so she safeguarded a trove of lore en route to Berdusk and then Candlekeep, where it resides now in safety. Other activities attributed to the Mistmaiden include her saving of the dwarven warrior Khanor of the Blueshield Brotherhood and his companion Peldraun, priest of Deneir, high up in the Dragonjaw Mountains. Assailed by orcs, Khanor tells of seeing a large cloud of mist travel purposefully down a deep valley, emitting forked lightning and rays of burning sunshine, decimating the tuskers intent upon slaying them. Similarly, in his book titled “A Bloody Life Remembered: Thoughts With My Sword In Its Scabbard”, the mercenary sea captain Ordrath of Sarshel mentions a great cloud of mist that enveloped the vessel of the pirate captain Glothan “Goldkeel” Thalabard as he threatened their merchant caravel heading toward the port of Selgaunt in 1365 DR. Chased down by Glothan west of the Wayrock, Ordrath gazed on in trepidation as the mist soared over his ship to envelop the pirate vessel. The cloud then seemed to glow for the space of three or four heartbeats before slowly dissipating, leaving nothing behind and no trace of Glothan, his crew of cutthroats or their ship. Ordrath notes as an aside how a group of passengers on his ship, high-ranking clergy to the Lord of All Glyphs, gave prayers in thanks immediately following this event and told him later in private that “the Mistmaiden watches over us always”.

Of late, Ouranalathra has heard of another mist dragon, which shares her passion for sagely learning and the accumulation of lore. Thalagyrt, the mist dragon of the North, is but a name to her, but her curiosity to meet him grows year by year and in her hidden and most secret heart of hearts the Mistmaiden entertains the possibility of finding a kindred spirit to share her life and passions with. These thoughts have been prompted by her increasing age and fears of infirmity and weakness as the centuries roll on. She has certainly lost much of the whimsical and carefree nature she exhibited in her youth and is now a more serious, brooding individual, prone to periods of deep introspection.

Ouranalathra continues to improve her mastery of magic but sees the Art as a dry, scholarly vocation to be analysed, measured and mastered by reason, deduction and hard work. In this vein, the Mistmaiden rarely creates new magic spells of her own but is talented at twisting or shaping existing dweomers into new forms. Her grasp of metamagic is flawless and her thought processes regarding spell selection and spell tactics are unmatched by any save the mightiest wizards and the Chosen of Mystra. Ouranalathra however lacks that spark of excitement and boundless creativity that marks those who truly embrace the Art and the service of Mystra. It is likely that her dry, scholarly nature – developed over the years in her service to Deneir – has denied her the tools by which she can truly come to love the Art and hence use it to achieve her goals. As the Simbul has commented, “Her eyes never shine when she grasps and shapes the Weave, standing but a finger tip away from the glory of Mystra.”

Ouranalathra's Fate

The Mistmaiden may yet unlock the secrets of elven High Magic, which would enable her to extend her lifespan beyond that of normal dragons. She retains good vitality and health for the moment but it is interesting to note that she has recently requested the assistance of the aged High Scrivener Melendilar Huantilar of the temple to Deneir in Selgaunt. Ouranalathra has asked that he and his clergy research and provide her with lore regarding preventative healing measures, both magical and mundane, designed to keep a creature fit and healthy and delay the ravages of time and aging. Like all creatures, Ouranalathra fears death and true to her beliefs, feels that if death can be delayed or avoided, the means to do so will be found in the wisdom of the ages past.

For their part, the Deneirrath acknowledge and recognise the debts they owe the Mistmaiden and will do all in their power to see her live on in her role as protector of the faith. Of enemies, Ouranalathra has thankfully few, but knowledge of her activities is spreading throughout the Inner Sea lands and the accompanying rumors of her vast hoard, supposedly amassed over the many centuries, may yet make her a target for ambitious adventurers. The Simbul has discovered of late that the Red Wizard Ghalaster of Tyratauros has been secretly scrying on temples to the Lord of All Glyphs in nearby lands. He is known to command spells that attempt to control dragons and the Simbul fears he may use Ouranalathra to access and plunder the lore holdings of the Church of Deneir. Events, as they say, are getting very interesting east of the Sea of Fallen Stars.

legomaster00156
2017-04-12, 03:40 PM
I believe the word Cedric was looking for here was, "ingratiate," as in, "perhaps I could, by my assisstence in this book's proofreading, ingratiate myself to you so as to afford myself a discount on the purchasing of this book?"
Sorry, I just... when you're there to correct someone else's typo, it helps to not make one in the same post. :smallbiggrin:

Gildedragon
2017-04-12, 04:30 PM
Ranks in Craft (Witticism) and Perform (Conversation) are also solid investments. You want to be rolling at least 30s on each

Calthropstu
2017-04-12, 07:00 PM
Do the world a favor and put that sad creature of it's misery.

But ketchup is good on steak...

ryu
2017-04-12, 08:39 PM
But ketchup is good on steak...

Nah man. Lightly garlic accented butter, and perhaps some freshly ground pepper. It's a far superior steak strat.

Pleh
2017-04-12, 09:03 PM
Sorry, I just... when you're there to correct someone else's typo, it helps to not make one in the same post. :smallbiggrin:

Nah, man. I'm just here for the discount on that book. I'm not asking anyone to pay for my grammar, so you can have a full refund on my mistakes anytime.