Thor: Ragnarok — First Trailer

[Palanan]

Just when I thought I was getting tired of the MCU, they go and give me this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU).



Not quite sure about the 80s theme, but it’s mildly hilarious all the same.

[The Glyphstone]

...did someone accidentally drop the tape reels at the studio, and get them mixed up with a bunch of deleted scenes from Star Wars?

[Lvl45DM!]

The 80's and sci-fi vibes are because they are going to use Ragnarok as a bridge between the Earth-based MCU and Guardians of the Galaxy. Plus yknow, its awesome.
Seriously out of the entire 9 realms only Asgard still uses swords, its kinda ridiculous. But thats what happens when Space Vikings rule the universe I guess.


And did i see a split second frame of Skurge?


"He stood alone at Gjallerbru..."

[Dienekes]

Skurge is confirmed, being played by Eomir/Dredd. And while Gjallerbru remains one of my favorite moments in all comics, it requires quite a bit of set up to have any emotional weight. I doubt we're getting the best thing ever in a Thor comic on film, in the same way I don't expect to see a good rendition of Kraven's Last Hunt.

[Legato Endless]

The last Thor film was pretty dull, I'm glad they've taken a radically different direction. No Earth, no Jane. Blanchett, Goldblum and an 80s bend? I'm much more hyped for this than Spider-man.


...did someone accidentally drop the tape reels at the studio, and get them mixed up with a bunch of deleted scenes from Flash Gordon?

FTFY.

[BWR]

It looks better than the last two, but that isn't saying much. Like TDW, the spaceships and pulp SF stuff look like the best part. Probably a rental.

[Mando Knight]

The Thor standalones have always had an undercurrent of sci-fi to them. I like this is basically "80s Metal Album Cover: The Movie: Trailer 1".

Also, I think it's everyone's life goal to find that someone that looks them like Thor looks at Hulk (https://gfycat.com/PertinentSatisfiedDogfish).

[Felandria]

Y'know, it doesn't really bother me that Valkyrie is black.

But it really, REALLY bothers me that she's so short.

Valkyrie is supposed to be statuesque and Amazonian, dang it.

[Anteros]

It actually looks really good. I've been burnt out on superhero movies for a while, but I'll probably give this one a shot.

Plus, I appreciate that they didn't ruin the entire plot in the trailer like Spider-man and BVS.

[Giggling Ghast]

Seriously out of the entire 9 realms only Asgard still uses swords, its kinda ridiculous. But thats what happens when Space Vikings rule the universe I guess.

That ain't true. The Frost Giants used ice swords, as did some of the Marauders had melee weapons. And then there's Gamora and Drax.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

The Thor standalones have always had an undercurrent of sci-fi to them. I like this is basically "80s Metal Album Cover: The Movie: Trailer 1".
Ditto! It feels very classic Marvel.

Also, please please please let this mean that Beta Ray Bill is showing up. He's like, perfect for the aesthetic.

[Cikomyr]

Can someone help me with that new Thor helmet? Did he ever had something like this in the comic? I thought his "winged helmet" was more with actual wings.

[DigoDragon]

Put me in for the category liking the throwback style. It feels more interesting than the previous Thor movie, which I agree felt rather dull. I'm stoked to watch this one. :D

Trying to find that version of the song used in the trailer. Immigrant I think is the name of the song?

[J-H]

Yeah, Immigrant something by Led Zepplin. It's very, very appropriate for Vikings. I first heard it with that silly hamster video a decade or so ago.

It looks fun, but silly. Probably a good direction for Thor, although this will be the third time in three movies that Asgard is attacked, invaded, or otherwise nearly destroyed. That bit is getting old.

I assume the evil woman is Hel, and we'll probably see Jormungandr somewhere.

[Lvl45DM!]

Yeah, Immigrant something by Led Zepplin. It's very, very appropriate for Vikings. I first heard it with that silly hamster video a decade or so ago.

It looks fun, but silly. Probably a good direction for Thor, although this will be the third time in three movies that Asgard is attacked, invaded, or otherwise nearly destroyed. That bit is getting old.

I assume the evil woman is Hel, and we'll probably see Jormungandr somewhere.

Immigrant Song. Durkons battle cry.

"We come from the land of the ice and snow of the midnight sun, where the hot springs glow
Hammer of the gods..."

Asgard is gonna go down in the like, the opening 10 minutes.

Omishinysnakeygods I would die happy seeing Jormungandr

[thorgrim29]

Well that was awesome. Not much more to say at this time, looks like it's going to be action-comedy in the vein of Guardians of the Galaxy and the director is great at weird comedy so I'm stoked.

[JoshL]

Yup, Zep, and that's 70s rock, not 80s (shesh, kids these days and their steadfast refusal to vacate my lawn).

Absolutely loved this, and using this as the bridge to get Guardians into Infinity War is perfect. This is going to be a great year Marvel-wise, and adding in Star Wars, a great year for big budget space opera! Now if we could only get a proper Riddick sequel (I enjoyed the last, but not as much as Chronicles)

[Vogie]

Also, I think it's everyone's life goal to find that someone that looks them like Thor looks at Hulk (https://gfycat.com/PertinentSatisfiedDogfish).

That last line "He's a friend from work" made me lose it laughing. It was so unexpected yet perfectly Thor.

[Leewei]

Yup, Zep, and that's 70s rock, not 80s (shesh, kids these days and their steadfast refusal to vacate my lawn).

I was getting ready to point this out, but you beat me to it. Here, have some of my prune juice!

[Aotrs Commander]

I actually rather liked both previous Thor movies, personally (I haven't not liked every MCU film period, actually, though I found Hulk a bit lukewarm) and that looks fan-fragging-tastic.




That last line "He's a friend from work" made me lose it laughing. It was so unexpected yet perfectly Thor.

Brilliance.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, Immigrant something by Led Zepplin. It's very, very appropriate for Vikings. I first heard it with that silly hamster video a decade or so ago.

It looks fun, but silly. Probably a good direction for Thor, although this will be the third time in three movies that Asgard is attacked, invaded, or otherwise nearly destroyed. That bit is getting old.

I assume the evil woman is Hel, and we'll probably see Jormungandr somewhere.

Yes, that's Hela, and from the sound of it no Jormungandr (or Fenris, for that matter).

[Eldan]

Yes, that's Hela, and from the sound of it no Jormungandr (or Fenris, for that matter).

Hrm. Hel should not have fire. That's a power for giants, maybe Loki in some versions. Her thing should be disease. (Yes, I know they are very unlike mythology in general anyway, but I like to nitpick.)

[Lvl45DM!]

Yup, Zep, and that's 70s rock, not 80s (shesh, kids these days and their steadfast refusal to vacate my lawn).

Absolutely loved this, and using this as the bridge to get Guardians into Infinity War is perfect. This is going to be a great year Marvel-wise, and adding in Star Wars, a great year for big budget space opera! Now if we could only get a proper Riddick sequel (I enjoyed the last, but not as much as Chronicles)

Noone said Zep was 80's.
The vibe of the trailer was 80s, the blurring words on the title cards, the Mad Max esque schlocky premise, the shots of Valkyrie taking on Hel was straight off an 80's metal album cover.

[The Troubadour]

Seemed kinda "meh" to me, to be honest, but I'll give the movie a chance.
I do miss the Shakespearean drama / super-hero combo of the first movie, though.

[GloatingSwine]

That last line "He's a friend from work" made me lose it laughing. It was so unexpected yet perfectly Thor.

It's almost straight out of the Team Thor shorts.

[Eldan]

Seemed kinda "meh" to me, to be honest, but I'll give the movie a chance.
I do miss the Shakespearean drama / super-hero combo of the first movie, though.

Yeah. That was a fun movie. Still, I think, one of the MCU's best.

I mean, I like the idea that they are not going to Earth. A lot. But I'd like to see perhaps a bit more techno-mythology and a bit less Star Wars/Flash Gordon/John Carter.

[Legato Endless]

Yes, that's Hela, and from the sound of it no Jormungandr (or Fenris, for that matter).

Fenris and Surtur were confirmed by Marvel last year.

[Ramza00]

It is looking like Thor 3 is going to introduce to the MCU more daughters that their fathers can be proud of, where dad says my girl is more badass than I am, and I am proud that this is the case.

Villainy and Heroics is not something limited to people with a Y chromosome. Hell, or perhaps I should say Hel, we have more robots and exoskeletons being the heros and villians than proper female badasses in the marvel cinematic universe.

[Dienekes]

It is looking like Thor 3 is going to introduce to the MCU more daughters that their fathers can be proud of, where dad says my girl is more badass than I am, and I am proud that this is the case.

Villainy and Heroics is not something limited to people with a Y chromosome. Hell, or perhaps I should say Hel, we have more robots and exoskeletons being the heros and villians than proper female badasses in the marvel cinematic universe.

Well that's a bit of an unfair comparison. After Iron-Man 3 and Age of Ultron there are more exoskeletons and robots than there are any other character in the MCU.

[Skitterbug]

Not quite sure about the 80s theme, but it’s mildly hilarious all the same.

Well that's the age we live in. Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool did so well every superhero movie has to have a nostalgic soundtrack that may or may clash with tone of the film. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn't.

So if it wasn't abundant by the above statement I'm not certain on the direction of the film so far. I only really liked the part with Thor in the arena with the Hulk. That was funny and should make for a good fight.

[Dienekes]

So if it wasn't abundant by the above statement I'm not certain on the direction of the film so far. I only really liked the part with Thor in the arena with the Hulk. That was funny and should make for a good fight.

But... but... Skurge.

[Tvtyrant]

Well that's the age we live in. Guardians of the Galaxy and Deadpool did so well every superhero movie has to have a nostalgic soundtrack that may or may clash with tone of the film. Sometimes it works. Other times it doesn't.

So if it wasn't abundant by the above statement I'm not certain on the direction of the film so far. I only really liked the part with Thor in the arena with the Hulk. That was funny and should make for a good fight.

I am sad movies are focusing so overly much on retro soundtracks, but very happy we are moving away from the blaring horns and orchestras of the last few decades. Don't get me wrong, they have their place, but not every action movie needs a soundtrack inspired by Inception.

[Darth Ultron]

It looks fun, but silly. Probably a good direction for Thor, although this will be the third time in three movies that Asgard is attacked, invaded, or otherwise nearly destroyed. That bit is getting old.

I assume the evil woman is Hel, and we'll probably see Jormungandr somewhere.

Well, to be fair Asgard is always attacked....and everyone likes it that way. In both myth and the comics, Asgard is always in a state of war. So it is not really ''old'' in the Nine Worlds, it is just Tuesday.

The evil woman is Hela (Hel is the name of her realm). I do like the story line of Hela attacks and kills all the Valkyries and starts Ragnarok. This is right from the comics...at least a couple times. My favorite was when Hela almost did it all while Odin was asleep and Thor was busy on Earth...and just a handful of ''new mutants'' had to stop her.

Jormungandr would be nice to see....even a Hulk and Thor fight against it. But I think the big, big, big bad is Surtur. Hela just wants to destroy Asgard.....Surtur wants to destroy the whole Nine worlds.

[Ramza00]

The evil woman is Hela (Hel is the name of her realm).

Just pointing this out, in literature she can be both Hel or Hela, but almost always she was Hel. But in the 1960s when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee made the comic book character they used Hela even though most of the time in literature her name is Hel for the norse goddess.

Also pointing this out for the people who are not familiar with the comics Hela has many different costumes over her 5 decades. In the trailer she has two very different appearances, one looks like a goth lady and the other looks like the D&D character lady of pain. There are also other costumers she has used over the years.

I find it ironic that Cate Blanchett who is probably most remembered for Galadriel from Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy is now going to play a person associated with the embodiment of death.

[Skitterbug]

But... but... Skurge.

I don't know who that is.

[Rogar Demonblud]

1. His name sounds like Scourge

2. He's generally muscle for Amora, the Asgardian Enchantress

3. Like most everybody from Norse myth in Marvel Comics, he's a certified badass

4. He had one of the most iconic scenes in recent years with his Last Stand at Gallerbru

That's pretty much the highlights.

[Cikomyr]

So nobody can help me about the weird helmet?

[The Troubadour]

So nobody can help me about the weird helmet?

To the best of my knowledge, Thor never wore a helmet like the one in the trailer. It kind of looks like a more stylised version of Dargo Ktor's helmet (a one-shot character from an alternate future who also wielded Mjolnir).

[Dienekes]

1. His name sounds like Scourge

2. He's generally muscle for Amora, the Asgardian Enchantress

3. Like most everybody from Norse myth in Marvel Comics, he's a certified badass

4. He had one of the most iconic scenes in recent years with his Last Stand at Gallerbru

That's pretty much the highlights.

Is mid-80s really considered recent years?

But anyway, yeah, he was a mid-level muscle henchmen for The Enchantress, he loved her, she used him. During an amazing run on Thor the gates of Hel are opened, and Skurge realizes that the Enchantress doesn't actually care about him. He then fights all the denizens of Hel so that Thor and the other Asgardians can get to safety on the bridge of Gjallerbru. And it was just amazing and poetic reading it all those years ago.

It remains my favorite moment in any Thor comic.

Closely followed by anything involving Beta Ray Bill.

[JadedDM]

I know that in Norse mythology, Hel is the daughter of Loki. Is that true in the comics, as well? Because that strikes me as really weird, particularly as Cate Blanchett is older than Tom Hiddleston. Well, that, and no mention of Loki having a daughter was ever mentioned in any of the other movies.

[Ramza00]

I know that in Norse mythology, Hel is the daughter of Loki. Is that true in the comics, as well? Because that strikes me as really weird, particularly as Cate Blanchett is older than Tom Hiddleston. Well, that, and no mention of Loki having a daughter was ever mentioned in any of the other movies.

So in the marvel comics, spoilers


So remember in the marvel comics there are cycles of reincarnation with ragnarok and even though the universe is billions of years old, thor, odin, loki, etc has had many incarnations during those billions of years.

Also remember that comics constantly rewrite and retrocon people's back stories.

In the 1980s version of Hela, Loki is Hela's father but it is not the current Loki but a previous Loki incarnation.

In the recent 2010s version of Hela it is implied but not outrated stated that Hela is someone from Loki's past and due to time travel stuff that person will eventually become what is now Hela.

-----

Note there are so many times Marvel changes Norse myth, for example Thor Odinson is not the son of Frigga / Freya but is instead the son of Odin and Gaea / Jord. Thor for most of his life thought his step mother / adopted mother Frigga / Freya was his real mom for this secret was kept from him.

Now think about this for a second, Thor and Loki have a little more in common for they were both lied to about their parentage and even if Thor is Odin's biological son, he still is somewhat adopted into the Asgardian family for Odin and Freya have a royal marriage designed to unite bloodlines between enemies. She had to be fine raising a heir that is not her own blood, an outsider, just like she raised Loki another outsider who was not her blood. The brothers are more alike than they realize.

[JadedDM]

Interesting. Do you think that's how they'll handle it in the movies, or will they just simplify it so Hela is just another Asgardian or something else entirely?

[BWR]

no mention of Loki having a daughter new plot element was ever mentioned in any of the other movies.

So, business as usual for movies, comics and movie comics, then?

[Darth Ultron]

Interesting. Do you think that's how they'll handle it in the movies, or will they just simplify it so Hela is just another Asgardian or something else entirely?

I think it is safe to say Hela will just be a stand alone character with no relation to Loki.

[Cikomyr]

How about she turns out to be Loki's mother? And he is actually half Frost Giant and half Asgardian?

[Eldan]

How about she turns out to be Loki's mother? And he is actually half Frost Giant and half Asgardian?

Could be nice.

As for mythology, well, Loki should be Odin's brother. 'nuff said.

[Cikomyr]

Could be nice.

As for mythology, well, Loki should be Odin's brother. 'nuff said.

Have Hela be Odin's sister, Loki her son, and thus Odin's nephew and actually part of the royal line.

[JadedDM]

While Cate Blanchett is older than Tom Hiddleston, it's only by 11 years. So her playing his mother is almost as odd as her playing his daughter.

[Dienekes]

While Cate Blanchett is older than Tom Hiddleston, it's only by 11 years. So her playing his mother is almost as odd as her playing his daughter.

Near ageless gods kind of solve that little problem doesn't it?

[Rogar Demonblud]

That goes the other way too.

[Ramza00]

While Cate Blanchett is older than Tom Hiddleston, it's only by 11 years. So her playing his mother is almost as odd as her playing his daughter.

I would personally move on.

But here is your rationale if you want head canon. Hel is the goddess of death and decay and in the comics half of her body is physically dead and if she does not carry around a magical artifact she is much weaker due to half her body being dead. If you are a goddess of death and decay perhaps you do not look as youthful than your daddy who is famous for being the Norse god of illusions, trickery, and is always shape shifting from one form to another.

[Vogie]

How about she turns out to be Loki's mother? And he is actually half Frost Giant and half Asgardian?

I really hope not. I'm fine with Thor being the son of Odin, but I really dislike it when stories fall into the "everyone is related" trope. I can certainly see if they stick with her being the son of Loki to stick to the Mythology, but trying to ham-hand a new relation because reasons... please no.

[Cikomyr]

Well, that would actually explain a lot of things if it turned out to be true.

- Loki was anormaly small for a Frost Giant
- Hela appears to be both ancient and recluse, as well as owning technology massively more powerful than the Asgard's
- It might explains why Loki still has some legitimacy to the throne of Asgard

[tomandtish]

Can someone help me with that new Thor helmet? Did he ever had something like this in the comic? I thought his "winged helmet" was more with actual wings.


So nobody can help me about the weird helmet?

I'm under the impression that this is gladiator equipment he's being given. It's not his as such. Don't take it to be his iconic helmet, but rather as a loaner. But if it is supposed to be, it actually looks better.



Just pointing this out, in literature she can be both Hel or Hela, but almost always she was Hel. But in the 1960s when Jack Kirby and Stan Lee made the comic book character they used Hela even though most of the time in literature her name is Hel for the norse goddess.

My suspicion is that she was renamed slightly to avoid running afoul of the Comic Code Authority (https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/231779/the-comics-code-authority) of the day, since dropping one letter would probably still be too close for TPTB. And note that it was strict enough at the time that you couldn't even put the words "Horror" or "Terror" on the cover of a comic.

[Leewei]

A couple of thoughts about the trailer:


"I know that guy from work!"While funny, that actually struck me as a fairly un-Thor-like line. The "Yes!" when he saw his opponent, on the other hand, was awesome.

Jeff Goldblum as the Grandmaster could be fun. (It makes me imagine characters played by Geena Davis, Damon Wayans, Jim Carrey, and Julie Brown somewhere nearby.)

[GloatingSwine]

My suspicion is that she was renamed slightly to avoid running afoul of the Comic Code Authority (https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/231779/the-comics-code-authority) of the day, since dropping one letter would probably still be too close for TPTB. And note that it was strict enough at the time that you couldn't even put the words "Horror" or "Terror" on the cover of a comic.

There are a number of names the norse goddess has been referred to, depending on the translation and source. "Hella" is the old germanic name (same as eg. Woden is for Odin).

[lord_khaine]

As for mythology, well, Loki should be Odin's brother. 'nuff said.

Well blood brother. Odins Brothers are Vile and Ve according to the old Norse Mythology.

[Darth Ultron]

So my prediction based off the Trailer and having watched movies before:

I'll bet we start with ''long ago'' bit. Where Hela and Odin fight, and all the Valkyries are killed...except one. But at the last moment Odin traps Hela in a cage. Then they toss up the title.

Then it's present day Asgard ruled by Loki looking like Odin. And we get to see Thor like drink with his buddies and arm wrestle. But..oh no...Loki forgot to re enchant the cage, that he did not know about....and Hela escapes. Asgard is attacked and we get to watch all the named gods get killed one by one. Loki escapes, Thor has his hammer destroyed and is chained up. Then Hela is like I'm going to wake up Sutur in, um, one week, for no reason other then to give you time to stop me, but then he will destroy the universe....hahahaha.

Then Loki sneaks in and frees Thor and is all like ''we need to save Asgard and the universe'' . Thor is all sad as he lost the fight, and his hammer, and sif, and everything and is like ''we are doomed''. And Loki is all like ''we just need to get Odin, he can fix everything. I hid him on Earth, but don't know where....but I have a plan. The Valkyries (amazingly) have an awesome Odin radar as the plot needs them to have one. So they just need a Valkyrie to find Odin. Oh...but only one Valkyrie is left in the Nine Worlds......the one on Planet Hulk.

So it's bit of action as they escape and jump through a portal. Then get caught and put in the arena. Loki talks his way out as he is the ''representative of the gladiator Thor'' and they play along with being captured and gladiators as it is the plot....and oh, they ''look'' for the Valkyrie by not looking for her and just being on the same planet. But they find her anyway.

Then we get the big Thor and Hulk fight. It's a bit of a boring CGI spam and the two demi gods punch it out and destroy stuff....but the little kids will like it. Chances are Thor looses the fight, but talks to the hulk and is all like ''remember''. Hulk is under a spell of forgetfullness, but remembers anyway and breaks the spell and turns back into Mark so he can get some screen time.

Then they have to fight and talk to the Valkyrie who is all like ''no''. But they ask nicely and say ''but the movie is almost over''. And then she is like ''ok''. But for one more wrinkle Hela hid Odin with another spell, so they shoehorn meeting Dr. Strange in and are like ''can you break the spell'' . He does, of course. Then they are like ''we are off to save the universe, but you stay home and polish that amulet''. They find odin as a homeless guy in New York (wow, never would have guessed, right?). They bring back Odin.

Then the four of them (Odin, Loki, Thor and Hulk) all fight in the big end fight.....and win. Odin dies, ''for real'' and Thor becomes king. They remake Asgard and bring everyone back to life. Then Thor is like ''I don't want to be king'' and gives the throne to Loki, and then is like ''opps no, haha, fooled you'' and following the Disney Evilcorp Politically correct machine makes Valkyrie ruler of the New Asgard.

The End

[HMS Invincible]

So my prediction based off the Trailer and having watched movies before:

I'll bet we start with ''long ago'' bit. Where Hela and Odin fight, and all the Valkyries are killed...except one. But at the last moment Odin traps Hela in a cage. Then they toss up the title.

Then it's present day Asgard ruled by Loki looking like Odin. And we get to see Thor like drink with his buddies and arm wrestle. But..oh no...Loki forgot to re enchant the cage, that he did not know about....and Hela escapes. Asgard is attacked and we get to watch all the named gods get killed one by one. Loki escapes, Thor has his hammer destroyed and is chained up. Then Hela is like I'm going to wake up Sutur in, um, one week, for no reason other then to give you time to stop me, but then he will destroy the universe....hahahaha.

Then Loki sneaks in and frees Thor and is all like ''we need to save Asgard and the universe'' . Thor is all sad as he lost the fight, and his hammer, and sif, and everything and is like ''we are doomed''. And Loki is all like ''we just need to get Odin, he can fix everything. I hid him on Earth, but don't know where....but I have a plan. The Valkyries (amazingly) have an awesome Odin radar as the plot needs them to have one. So they just need a Valkyrie to find Odin. Oh...but only one Valkyrie is left in the Nine Worlds......the one on Planet Hulk.

So it's bit of action as they escape and jump through a portal. Then get caught and put in the arena. Loki talks his way out as he is the ''representative of the gladiator Thor'' and they play along with being captured and gladiators as it is the plot....and oh, they ''look'' for the Valkyrie by not looking for her and just being on the same planet. But they find her anyway.

Then we get the big Thor and Hulk fight. It's a bit of a boring CGI spam and the two demi gods punch it out and destroy stuff....but the little kids will like it. Chances are Thor looses the fight, but talks to the hulk and is all like ''remember''. Hulk is under a spell of forgetfullness, but remembers anyway and breaks the spell and turns back into Mark so he can get some screen time.
Then they have to fight and talk to the Valkyrie who is all like ''no''. But they ask nicely and say ''but the movie is almost over''. And then she is like ''ok''. But for one more wrinkle Hela hid Odin with another spell, so they shoehorn meeting Dr. Strange in and are like ''can you break the spell'' . He does, of course. Then they are like ''we are off to save the universe, but you stay home and polish that amulet''. They find odin as a homeless guy in New York (wow, never would have guessed, right?). They bring back Odin.
Then the four of them (Odin, Loki, Thor and Hulk) all fight in the big end fight.....and win. Odin dies, ''for real'' and Thor becomes king. They remake Asgard and bring everyone back to life. Then Thor is like ''I don't want to be king'' and gives the throne to Loki, and then is like ''opps no, haha, fooled you'' and following the Disney Evilcorp Politically correct machine makes Valkyrie ruler of the New Asgard.
The End And then you throw the keywords alpha, beta and red pill at people and wink suggestively.



I really liked the trailer, though Thor bounces back from his trauma pretty quick. See your world devastated and hammer destroyed? Oh, hey, gladiator fight, and I'm having fun again!

[theNater]

So my prediction based off the Trailer and having watched movies before...
It's hard to read tone on the internet, but I get the feeling you aren't super happy with your prediction. So let's turn it around! What would you like to see? What is the best possible movie that could have this trailer? Notice "possible", not reasonable or realistic; don't feel bound by budget or studio mandates or marketability or focus groups or anything but the trailer. Pie-in-the-sky best movie.

I'd like to hear everybody's dream version of the movie, really. I admit, I don't have a fully assembled one of my own yet, but I'll start working on it. It's tricky; I'm not sure how much Goldblum I want.

[StarLightPips]

As someone who didn't grow up with the comics but did grow up with the cartoon series I'm really excited for all of this, I know it does look really silly but if they do this even half as good as ANY of the cartoons have handled this storyline I can't wait.

[The Troubadour]

Speaking of Surtur: Marvel had Malekith in the last movie, the title of this one is "Ragnarok", but apparently there's no Surtur in sight? What a wasted opportunity!

[Ramza00]

Darth Ultron forgot to incorporate Jeff Goldblum into the story. Jeff Goldblum is playing a specific character called Grandmaster from the Marvel Comics. So in Marvel Comics tapping into "big bang energy" is a big deal. Grandmaster belongs to a group of beings called the Elders of the Universe which are old enough that they can tap into big bang energy called the Power Primordial, aka it is a form of cosmic creation energy. Now the stuff the Silver Surfer uses and the other Heralds of Galactus and Galactus himself is the Power Cosmic which is also big bang energy but effectively you can change one big bang energy style to another big bang energy style if you access the Power Cosmic that Galactus and his Heralds use, yet if you use big bang energy that the Elders of the Universe use which is the Power Primordial you are accessing big bang energy but you can form it in less complex ways and you can't take energy and reform it in a new way that you could do if you access the power cosmic.

-----

Now I am not saying these marvel characters are related to the power cosmic and the power primordial but to use an analogy or metaphor.

Cyclops has big destructive Laser Eye, It is great at breaking things due to its concusive force.

Vulcan by contrast is a person like Bishop on Steroids which absorbs energy and then he can manifest that energy in its original form or change it to do fancy stuff, so much fancy stuff he is practically a spellcaster in the amount of variety of things he can do.

-----

Aka to use a D&D Analogy one is 9th level Spellcasting in D&D and there are lots of 9th level spells and Elders of the Universe like Grandmaster and Collector know a single 9th level spell each. Some Elders get 1 spell a day and some get multiple spells a day but still only know one 9th level spell though some 9th level spells like meteor shower have an A or B option

Silver Surfer is a spontaneous spellcaster who knows lots of 9th level spells but has limited spell slots.

And some people who are more powerful like the different showings of Galactus where he is at almost full power vs also Galactus but with weak amount of energy is like a person with all the spells known memorized and he can cast spells spontaneously (like a Beholder Mage) and thus knowing all 9th level spells and cast spontaneously but how many spells per day and how many actions per round he gets varies depending on his stress level. Regardless his worse showings vs his best showings is just a question of how silly he can get, galactus is always a threat but sometimes he is individual threat, or a planetary threat, or solary systems threat and sometimes he is galaxy or cosmic level threat.

-------

So one of the thing about the Elders of the Universe is each elder is an archetype to itself, they are all individual last species of their race and are now the last of their species of their kind / planet somehow this gives the ability to not die of natural causes. Furthermore they have to be damn old, just being the last of your species / planet is not enough to be an Elder, it is an exclusive club but we do not know all the rules. Yet each Elder, all of them individually for some reason only do 1 thing either because it is a compulsion force on them via the universe or maybe they just like doing only 1 thing we really do not know and it does not matter.

So the Collector collects things he has been in a few MCU movies such as Guardians of the Galaxy One where he talked about infinity stones, and some cameos in the other MCU movies like post credit scenes that unite everything with infinity stones.

The Grandmaster as an Elder his archetype is likes setting up games and watching aka you get to do fictional team ups where you collect various heroes and do things like the Secret Wars as an excuse to sell comics. Hey we want to have a Thor vs Hulk match, what can make this happen, lets deus ex machina this stuff and use a stand in that is flimsy as a daemon / demon / angel / god /djini and this is the Grandmaster who only purpose is to set up this team games of X vs Y. The key point that Darth did not explain which caused me to write this long post is he creates these situations instead of them just happening.. He is an active force in the universe creating battle matches.

Now if all this interest you do not read the wikipedia page on Elders of the Universe for Thor Ragnarok information if you do not want to be spoiled for Guardians of the Galaxy 2. This is because Guardians of the Galaxy 2 comes out in May 2017 and Thor Ragnarok comes out in Nov 2017 and both of them have elder of the universe spoilers in their trailers but unless you are familiar with the comics you do not know if they are talking about the same elder of the universe or different elders of the universe but if you go to wikipedia article on elders of the universe it will spill out enough information on which elders where in the movie trailers over the over dozen plus elders of the universe characters that you will be spoiled of suprises and reveals but it would not be a reveal if you read the comics type thing.

But yeah just like Infinity Stones were a thing that was introduced in Part 1 of the MCU with the tesseract and then expanded with the rest of Part 2 MCU movies. It looks like elders of the universe are also a uniyfing force in telling the MCU story with the elders being stuff that unite movies before Infinity War.

[Darth Ultron]

Darth Ultron forgot to incorporate Jeff Goldblum into the story. .

I think it will be a bit part....like the Collector from GotG. So for like six whole minutes we will see ''oh wow, the Grandmaster runs the gladiator games'' and then the character will be gone from the movie. I guess it makes a good ''villain'' for Loki to take out.....like Thor and Hulk escape and the Grandmaster is like ''activate the prison nanobots'', and that is when Loki back stabs him...literally...in the back.

So yea, like six minutes total of screen time....and he won't have the ''power cosmic'' or anything.

[Cikomyr]

I really liked the trailer, though Thor bounces back from his trauma pretty quick. See your world devastated and hammer destroyed? Oh, hey, gladiator fight, and I'm having fun again!

Maybe it was the first good news he had all month?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Bumping to see who's going to check this out Thursday night.

[Ramza00]

Speaking of Surtur: Marvel had Malekith in the last movie, the title of this one is "Ragnarok", but apparently there's no Surtur in sight? What a wasted opportunity!

http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NEB4PokoBmLkEI_1_b/Thor-3-Ragnarok-Villain-Surtur-Clancy-Brown.jpg

That still of Hulk and Surtur is from the comic con trailer for Ragnarok.

Aka this trailer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibbTUYk7i3k

And then there is a joke about Thor and Hulk both being like fire, and then they show the literal king of the fire giants (aka we now have 3 fires)

[Rodin]

Bumping to see who's going to check this out Thursday night.

I already saw it - I guess it hit UK theatres before the US?

It's pretty good, I'd rate it as a pretty standard MCU movie with better-than-average comedy and a slightly below-average plot. The actual thrust of the story wasn't anything special, but the characters (especially Loki) were in fine form.

Also, Dr. Strange's cameo was hilarious.

[Sapphire Guard]

I'm having a bit of difficulty reconciling the reviews saying this is such a super light, funny film, with the idea that

Asgard apparently gets basically levelled?

But I haven't seen it yet, trying to decide whether to go or not.

[Gray Mage]

Saw it this past weekend and must say it was worth the price of admission. In my opinion the best of the 3 Thor movies so far by a large margin and a fairly solid one in relation to the MCU in general. :smallsmile:

I was very happy to see the hulk (not Banner) finally become a character instead of a plot point and his interactions with Thor made the film for me.

[The Troubadour]

http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news.tops/NEB4PokoBmLkEI_1_b/Thor-3-Ragnarok-Villain-Surtur-Clancy-Brown.jpg

That still of Hulk and Surtur is from the comic con trailer for Ragnarok.

Considering how Surtur was used in the movie, I think I'd have preferred it if they left him out.
Well, be careful what you wish for, I guess.


But I haven't seen it yet, trying to decide whether to go or not.

If it helps, let me quote myself:

"Just watched 'Thor: Ragnarok'. It dropped nearly all of the dramatic potential and dignity of characters and narrative alike in favour of more action and humour. I'd classify it as 'Guardians of the Galaxy' without the emotional depth. It's not a bad movie per se - I found it to be a lot more fun than 'The Dark World', for instance -, but it's not really my cup of tea.

That said, the homages to classic comic moments were terrible. They lacked all of the gravitas and emotion of the originals."

[Dienekes]

Alright, so, deciding if I should see it or not.

A few notes. I hated the first two Thor movies. Don’t give a single crap about any of the human characters or Thor’s love interest. The “emotional depth” of the movie characters have mostly been lost to me.

But, Skurge’s last stand at Gjallerbru is one of my all time favorite comic moments. And I know Skurge is in the movie.

So worth seeing, for Skurge?

[Gray Mage]

Alright, so, deciding if I should see it or not.

A few notes. I hated the first two Thor movies. Don’t give a single crap about any of the human characters or Thor’s love interest. The “emotional depth” of the movie characters have mostly been lost to me.

But, Skurge’s last stand at Gjallerbru is one of my all time favorite comic moments. And I know Skurge is in the movie.

So worth seeing, for Skurge?

Well, I'm not very familiar with Skurge, so I'm not sure how accurate the portrayal was, but about the human character you'll be happy to know that Jane is completely absent from this movie only being name dropped once and the only human characters that appear in the movie are Bruce Banner and Dr. Strange (briefly).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Arguably, Bruce isn't human any more.

And that's pretty much the opposite of a spoiler, since we already knew both of them were in the film.

[Rodin]

As someone who didn't like either of the first two Thor movies, I enjoyed this one. The description above is pretty accurate - it's Guardians of the Galaxy without the emotional depth. Of course, emotional depth wasn't an area where I felt either GotG movie excelled either, so your mileage may vary.

It felt kind of filler-ish - a goofy movie that is mostly unimportant (but fun to watch) fluff bookended by quite important events. The main villain is just about the least memorable out of the MCU movies with the exception of Thor 2, and I say that because that's the only MCU movie where I actually don't remember the plot.

I think it's definitely worth a watch if you liked Guardians (or MCU-style comedy in general), but just go in knowing that Civil War this ain't.

[Ramza00]

Fan Theory.

Jane Foster in the Marvel Cinematic Universe does not actually exist. Instead Jane Foster is just a Loki image construct designed to troll Thor and to keep him distracted and away from Asgard.

[Eldan]

It felt kind of filler-ish - a goofy movie that is mostly unimportant (but fun to watch) fluff bookended by quite important events. The main villain is just about the least memorable out of the MCU movies with the exception of Thor 2, and I say that because that's the only MCU movie where I actually don't remember the plot.

Uh... something something the elf king glues some red stuff to what'shername Thor's Girlfriend, something something portals between worlds something bad happens? Then it ends in a fistfight like all marvel movies.

I swear, I actually like the Thor movies. In concept. They are just so much more interesting than the other Marvel movies. In theory.

[Ramza00]

Uh... something something the elf king glues some red stuff to what'shername Thor's Girlfriend, something something portals between worlds something bad happens? Then it ends in a fistfight like all marvel movies.

I swear, I actually like the Thor movies. In concept. They are just so much more interesting than the other Marvel movies. In theory.

I actually prefer the Thor Movies to the Captain America movies... (Feels the sound of hissing from people who read this line)

...

Then again can someone explain to me this Dark World movie some people are referring to? Can someone explain to me why Loki was thought to be dead and not in a prison in Asgard and how Odin was put in a nursing home...it seems like really important things that there should be a Thor Movie about...really important...yet I can't remember a movie explaining all of this, it thus must have been explained in Marvel's Agents in Shield or one of the Netflix Marvel series?

[Legato Endless]

Uh... something something the elf king glues some red stuff to what'shername Thor's Girlfriend, something something portals between worlds something bad happens? Then it ends in a fistfight like all marvel movies.

A fist fight? I thought it was more Power Rangers with posing and energy beams. Like the Elf King grows giant size and then Thor shoots his arms off with Megazord power or something.


Fan Theory.

Jane Foster in the Marvel Cinematic Universe does not actually exist. Instead Jane Foster is just a Loki image construct designed to troll and seduce Thor.

If Loki is impersonating Jane there's got to be a slash element to it.


Alright, so, deciding if I should see it or not.

A few notes. I hated the first two Thor movies. Don’t give a single crap about any of the human characters or Thor’s love interest. The “emotional depth” of the movie characters have mostly been lost to me.

But, Skurge’s last stand at Gjallerbru is one of my all time favorite comic moments. And I know Skurge is in the movie.

So worth seeing, for Skurge?

Skurge's character has been somewhat retooled. I haven't seen the film, but the TvTropes character page describing the shifts in his personality didn't fill me with optimism on that front.

[Cen]

I actually prefer the Thor Movies to the Captain America movies... (Feels the sound of hissing from people who read this line)

...

Then again can someone explain to me this Dark World movie some people are referring to? Can someone explain to me why Loki was thought to be dead and not in a prison in Asgard and how Odin was put in a nursing home...it seems like really important things that there should be a Thor Movie about...really important...yet I can't remember a movie explaining all of this, it thus must have been explained in Marvel's Agents in Shield or one of the Netflix Marvel series?

Well have you seen Thor 2? in Thor 2 Loki died and than suddenly he was sitting in Odin's chair, impersonating Odin, and Odin was missing.

[Rodin]

I actually prefer the Thor Movies to the Captain America movies... (Feels the sound of hissing from people who read this line)

...

Then again can someone explain to me this Dark World movie some people are referring to? Can someone explain to me why Loki was thought to be dead and not in a prison in Asgard and how Odin was put in a nursing home...it seems like really important things that there should be a Thor Movie about...really important...yet I can't remember a movie explaining all of this, it thus must have been explained in Marvel's Agents in Shield or one of the Netflix Marvel series?

I loved that they actually took time out in Ragnarok to cover the ending of Dark World, or at least the high points. For all the other movies in the MCU they just kind of assume you've watched the rest of them, but I guess Dark World was bad enough they decided a lot of people might be coming into this one a bit lost. The fact that events on Asgard had little-to-no relevance to Earth just made the problem worse.

[JoshL]

I actually prefer the Thor Movies to the Captain America movies... (Feels the sound of hissing from people who read this line)

I will agree with you there. Cap's movies are, I think, better movies. Very well done. Just very well done movies I don't happen to like. I hate war movies, and spy thrillers that are more explosions than, you know, spying don't do much for me. On the other hand, in the first Thor movie, I hated just about every scene on Earth. Edit that out, I would love it! Thor 2 I am in the minority on. It is one of my favorite Marvel films so far (Strange is my absolute favorite). So I'm probably going to love this new one!

[Ramza00]

Well have you seen Thor 2? in Thor 2 Loki died and than suddenly he was sitting in Odin's chair, impersonating Odin, and Odin was missing.

There are only 2 Thor Feature Films, Thor (2011) and its sequel Thor: Ragnarok (2017). I hear there is this thing called Thor Dark World, but obviously that is just a tv arc for no way would someone spend 150 million dollars making that script into a global feature film. People do not greenlight movies with that bad of a script!

[Eldan]

I will agree with you there. Cap's movies are, I think, better movies. Very well done. Just very well done movies I don't happen to like. I hate war movies, and spy thrillers that are more explosions than, you know, spying don't do much for me. On the other hand, in the first Thor movie, I hated just about every scene on Earth. Edit that out, I would love it! Thor 2 I am in the minority on. It is one of my favorite Marvel films so far (Strange is my absolute favorite). So I'm probably going to love this new one!

Sounds about like my opinion. The Cap movies just don't ever do anything very interesting and I nearly fell asleep during the second half of First Avenger. Winter Soldier had enough fight scenes to not be boring, but it left a bit of a bad taste in parts and the story and setting were again not very interesting.
Thor... Thor at least tries to do something creative and I like the first one a lot. The second one wouldn't even need to chance much to be good. Namely, cut out Jane Foster entirely, cut everything set on Earth to half and use that Screentime to give Malekith some character. I mean hell, they had Christopher Eccleston and they barely let him act.

[Sapphire Guard]

I liked Cap 1, but 2 and 3 were films I didn't like although they were well made.

I didn't like how ineffective they made the non Hydra half of SHIELD, and NPCs in general.

Liked Thor 1, neutral to Thor 2 (although Loki's charm wore very thin), haven't seen Thor 3, and I now don't think I'll go see it in theatres due ther aforementioned

Light and Funny= Destruction of Asgard issue.

[Ramza00]

I have decided that if Galadriel ever decided to take the one ring this is what she will become.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-V2rzN2naOiA/UV-MO7mZFTI/AAAAAAAB5CQ/XxfqylxVIE8/s400/Galadriel_-_ROTK.png

http://www.councilofelrond.com/albums/album13/16c_galads.jpg



“And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!”


I am the goddess of death

https://i.imgflip.com/1yp84o.jpg

[Eldan]

Well, it's certainly a better look on her than a blue colour filter and some floaty hair.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Her goth look when she shatters the hammer would be better, though.

[Dienekes]

Skurge's character has been somewhat retooled. I haven't seen the film, but the TvTropes character page describing the shifts in his personality didn't fill me with optimism on that front.

Disappointing but not unexpected. Skurge was so good because we saw his fall to irrelevance over the years that his final act felt all the more rewarding. It’d be hard or near impossible to do in 1 movie.

[rooster707]

So, just got back from seeing this. My overall thoughts:

I thought it was good, but not amazing. My main problem is that they couldn't seem to decide on a tone. On the one hand, you have Odin dying, Hela showing up, Asgard in danger, and so forth, but on the other hand... there are a *ton* of jokes in this movie. It feels, I don't know, inconsistent? Mostly I still liked it, but I feel like they were trying to do Thor and Guardians of the Galaxy at the same time, and I wish they had just picked one and stuck with it.

[Tev]

As a total comic-book ignorant, I loved it. Mostly.

I considered Thor 1 & 2 silly and kind of stupid (but still ok) movies, with a few interesting characters. Marvel decided to use that silliness to tie it to the rest of the MCU properly* (as mentioned nobody gave a damn what happened in previous Thor movies). So this is VERY silly movie, but you will laugh a lot. If you like GotG/MCU style of humor.

The characters evolved a lot in this, and while their dignity suffered, I really liked all of them (ok Loki was always great) more than ever before.

Still, it really felt like taking a piss on the previous movies. Entire Asgard MCU storyline feels like huge wasted opportunity.

My friend, who is big comic nerd, really hated it. And I can see why . . . be prepared to laugh AT Thor a lot. I went into the cinema with that mindset (because I just could not ever take MCU Thor seriously), and enjoyed it greatly. I'll see it tomorrow again. :)

*
Well, it removes Asgard completely from the story, so it will bother us no more. Shame. But I guess it will help, especially tonally, to merge everything into one big GotG storyline.

[SaintRidley]

It didn't feel like Guardians to me. It was funny, yeah, but nothing really made me think they ventured out of the Thor lane and into the Guardians one. They just realized there was more potential to the Thor lane than they had really engaged with prior (Thor's interactions with Darcy in the previous two films, for instance, seem to have the same DNA as this movie, and happen to be what I think are the strongest facets of the old movies).

Too bad Natalie Portman being gone will likely mean no more Kat Dennings in the MCU.



On Asgard's eventual fate, if they follow the comics at all, Asgard will wind up in Oklahoma, so it'll be there to be spectacular, but it also won't be so far away as to be a major inconvenience for when they happen to need Thor for stuff.

HULK SUPLEXED FENRIS! This was the moment of the movie for me.

Thor's talk to Loki during the escape from Saraak, basically saying that Loki is who he's always been but Thor has had character development, was really nicely done.

I did hope for Korg's revolution to lead to the abolition of the Asgardian monarchy, but I guess I can't expect Hollywood to ever try putting forward a radical message like "worker's revolts can topple corrupt and corruptible regimes" in a movie, so yeah.

Thor and Hulk's interactions were both funny and emotionally engaging.

[2D8HP]

Just when I thought I was getting tired of the MCU, they go and give me this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU).



Not quite sure about the 80s theme, but it’s mildly hilarious all the same.


Watched the trailer, it looks fun (unlike an "Avengers" movie that, other than a line of "Puny god", was really dull).

As someone who posts the words "back in the 1980's" over and over again I didn't see anything particularly "80's" about the trailer.

What am I not spotting?

[Anonymouswizard]

Just saw it.

It's much more like what I expected the first Thor to be. The first two movies seemed to be trying to convince you they were science fiction, but Ragnarok was unashamedly fantasy. Asgardians are aliens? It doesn't matter, Thor is still a god of lightning (I know they say thunder, but they essentially went with a lightning motif).

It's a lot of fun. I wouldn't say it's as good as the first film was, but I enjoyed it more. However I'm neither a comic fan or a Norse Mythology fan, so darn any inconsistencies compared to either medium :smalltongue:

EDIT: the climatic fight felt very Exalted to me.

I will note however that whenever Hela fought I was waiting for her to summon her reality marble. It was spot on for how I see Fate/Stay Night's Archer fighting, with the summoning and shooting/throwing weapons as required, although with out the rain of blades, as well as the grace and acrobatics.

Honestly? The fighting style fits Archer better. While Hela is a goddess of death and very deadly, she'd likely kill Archer quickly in a real fight, Archer fights as such because his thing is making and replicating weapons, the quick creation fits a smith completely and Hela had no creation theming apart from the instant weapons. I would have preferred someone who was just very deadly with whatever came to hand.

[Zevox]

Just saw it. As far as I'm concerned, it was excellent, easily the best of the Thor films (for the record, I liked the other Thor films, though Dark World less than the first), and one of my favorites out of Marvel's overall offerings. Comparisons to Guardians are quite apt - seems pretty clear to me that the guys behind the Thor films took copious notes from the success of that film, and it pays off.
Though, funnily enough, in retrospect, the Thor films always had that potential - I recall my favorite moment from The Dark World being right at the beginning, when Thor shows up in the fight that Sif and other Asgardians were having, and they have this exchange:

Sif [annoyed]: "I've got everything under control."
Thor [amused]: "Is that why everything's on fire?"

Yeah, I was disappointed that tone went away immediately thereafter - but that's pretty much the tone they picked back up in this one, and oh boy did it work.

So yeah, jokes were great (I especially loved the Avengers callback one at the Coliseum), and moreover, so was the action. My lord, that big finale was so what I wanted out of a movie about a superhero version of Norse myth. So much better than the other Thor films in that area. Ditching earth and the human characters (aside from Strange's cameo, which was wonderful) was the best call they could've made - more time for the real fun stuff that way.

Honestly, I can't think of anything I didn't like so much from it, it was just entertaining from start to finish. I hope to see more like it.

[Eldan]

It's a lot of fun. I wouldn't say it's as good as the first film was, but I enjoyed it more. However I'm neither a comic fan or a Norse Mythology fan, so darn any inconsistencies compared to either medium :smalltongue:


Eh, there was never any hope it would be much like the mythology. I mean, they started from the position of having ditched almost all the other gods, such as those that much of Ragnarök is about, like Tyr and Balder. Doens't mean the story is bad. Bit disappointed there's no Midgardsormr, though. I mean, mythological Thor's final fight in Ragnarök is against a serpent the size of the world, how do you let that out.

[Anonymouswizard]

Eh, there was never any hope it would be much like the mythology. I mean, they started from the position of having ditched almost all the other gods, such as those that much of Ragnarök is about, like Tyr and Balder. Doens't mean the story is bad. Bit disappointed there's no Midgardsormr, though. I mean, mythological Thor's final fight in Ragnarök is against a serpent the size of the world, how do you let that out.

I mean, I knew it wasn't going to be mythologically accurate, Thor's not even a redhead, I was just saying 'I understand why some people might disagree with my opinions'.

Plus Thor versus a world serpent sounds cool. I need to use a giant snake in my next superhero game now.

[Mordar]

Watched the trailer, it looks fun (unlike an "Avengers" movie that, other than a line of "Puny god", was really dull).

As someone who posts the words "back in the 1980's" over and over again I didn't see anything particularly "80's" about the trailer.

What am I not spotting?

The initial response I had to your question was "Some people think Led Zeppelin was from the 80s?!?"...which I still think is the case for far too many people...

But I'm guessing it is more the idea of this being a buddy-action-movie with lots of one liners is the part that is legitimately 80s reminiscent, even if some of the better examples are from the 90s.

I thought too much of the "funny" was forced and inappropriate, and now both the Collector and Grandmaster (and Ego, for that matter) seem to have been completely lampooned from what I remember. Does anyone else think a Collector that gets his collection undone by a slave girl and a Grandmaster, used to wagering the outcomes of solar systems on games of chance but now a backwater Caesar both missed the mark?

- M

[Tyndmyr]

For the sake of calibration...I enjoyed the original Thor decently well, but considered it the weakest of the origin movies, and the Dark Elf movie was...weak IMO. I greatly enjoyed this movie, however.

Humor was good, lots of really cool sets, and the story was genuinely interesting with fun twists and turns. Trailers didn't spoil the whole lot, which is way too common nowadays, and is really refreshing. I'm also totally okay with going more out there into the fantasy aspects, being less tied to earth/ordinary pov characters. The Grandmaster was a lot of fun, and Loki is, well, Loki. He was by far the best part of the previous movies, and he doesn't disappoint here.

I can see how people can see it as thematically connected to GotG, and frankly, that makes sense. If that's the feel that Marvel is going for with the over the top space craziness, this movie works super well as a bridge to the rest of the MCU, and I am greatly looking forward to the Thanos movies as a result.

[Jeivar]

While I overall enjoyed the movie there is one big thing that sticks in my craw about it. Namely Valkyrie.

I mean, she's spent however many years abducting people, torturing them, then selling them into slavery to be murdered for public entertainment, so she can buy booze. I'm sorry I... just can't sweep that under my mental rug. That is just flat-out pure evil.

[Vogie]

While I overall enjoyed the movie there is one big thing that sticks in my craw about it. Namely Valkyrie.

I mean, she's spent however many years abducting people, torturing them, then selling them into slavery to be murdered for public entertainment, so she can buy booze. I'm sorry I... just can't sweep that under my mental rug. That is just flat-out pure evil.

I completely agree. And her 'redemption arc', if you can call it that, is more of a Redemption Shrug - "Yeah, sure, whatevs". And... does she not have a name? She starts off by Scrapper 142 or something, then once Thor finds out she's an Asgardian, he starts hounding her, sees the tattoo to indicate she's a valkyrie, one of a collection of valkyries and then... that's her name now? She's just listed as "Valkyrie" even on IMDB. That seems a bit thin as well.

[Lord Joeltion]

I will only say, I liked the movie more than other Marvel movies and more than the other Thors. But I totally missed Sif and the Three Cavalieros Warriors Three. And Kat :(


While I overall enjoyed the movie there is one big thing that sticks in my craw about it. Namely Valkyrie.

I mean, she's spent however many years abducting people, torturing them, then selling them into slavery to be murdered for public entertainment, so she can buy booze. I'm sorry I... just can't sweep that under my mental rug. That is just flat-out pure evil.
"Pure evil" is a lil off, methinks. If anything, I would call it "survival instinct". Not that human trafficking is justifiable under any circumstances; but on the other hand, she was also saving people from becoming "food".

She was just doing what they did in Space Rome and followed accordingly. While I still think she is no hero at any point in the movie (revenge was her only motivation, not heroics); I don't think she was in a position to become a Freedom Fighter (and survive). Or that the logic "If you aren't fighting the Regime you become the Regime!" applies to her. She simply didn't care. So, more selfish than evil IMHO.


And... does she not have a name? She starts off by Scrapper 142 or something, then once Thor finds out she's an Asgardian, he starts hounding her, sees the tattoo to indicate she's a valkyrie, one of a collection of valkyries and then... that's her name now? She's just listed as "Valkyrie" even on IMDB. That seems a bit thin as well.
That was nice for me, because in the Marvel Mythos there isn't just "a" valkyrie, but several. Opening the chance for Brunnhilde or the others to join/make a cameo.

They took plenty liberties with Marvel Mythos too, but whatever.

[Tyndmyr]

I will only say, I liked the movie more than other Marvel movies and more than the other Thors. But I totally missed Sif and the Three Cavalieros Warriors Three. And Kat :(


Well, they did appear. Briefly.

[FreddyNoNose]

While I overall enjoyed the movie there is one big thing that sticks in my craw about it. Namely Valkyrie.

I mean, she's spent however many years abducting people, torturing them, then selling them into slavery to be murdered for public entertainment, so she can buy booze. I'm sorry I... just can't sweep that under my mental rug. That is just flat-out pure evil.

maybe you need a bigger/better mental rug.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, I just got back from seeing it. I thought it was excellent, probably one of the best they've done. I really wasn't expecting it to be so damned funny. Chris Hemsworth was clearly having a whale of a time and it showed.

Also I tip my helmet to Cate Blanchett - Hela was a cracking villain, also one of the best they've had. (See also Loki, so good, they have to keep bringing him back. And it is glorious!)

On the one hand, it was a bit wince-inducing to see Thor's mates get knobbled like they did. On the other hand, at least they were there (Sif being noticable by her absence, but plus sde? She's maybe still alive...?)

Thor/10, will definitely watch on DVD.



(So guessing the majority didn't like it much (or almost everyone liked it), the litmus test of my own enjoyment is any basis!)



Trailer-wise, I found that the Star Wars one did nothing for me. (I thought the Jumanji one looked more amusing.) I dunno, there just feels like there was something missing. I mean, seriously, I was "meh" about something with Starship Battles in it. That's... Weird, to say the least...



Edit: No, looks like most folk liked it then.


But I totally missed Sif and the Three Cavalieros Warriors Three.

But Hela sure didn't!

Bwahahahahahaha!

#FarTooSoon

[Lord Joeltion]

Well, they did appear. Briefly.
They weren't even mentioned by Thor. They used to be pals! THEY were the ones that went on to "rescue" him on the first movie. That ain't something you handwave just like that. As far I'm concerned, they weren't in the movie at all.
Not to mention their pretty anti-climatic, undeserving and pointless deaths.

On the topic of Sif, her non-cameo is probably the biggest sin of this movie. But at least they didn't turn her into a substitute GF

[Anteros]

Well I saw it tonight and I liked it. I can see the comparisons to Guardians as well due to the humor and the music. Unlike Guardians most of the humor was actually funny instead of just "haha this character is so awkward or immature" which is what has passed for humor in the last few MCU movies. Not that awkward characters can't be funny...but boy did Guardians and the new Spidey movie ever beat that dead horse into the ground.

I really have no complaints with this movie at all. They really nailed the over the top spectacle that I want in a comic book movie. I wish DC would learn from them.

[Keltest]

I'm glad they didn't try to take this one super seriously. Thor is, quite frankly, rather ridiculous, and they embraced it in this one instead of trying to cover it up like they did in the first one. I mean, he flies by throwing his hammer and not letting go. Better that they embrace the magic rather than try and make it science.

[Dilvish]

They weren't even mentioned by Thor. They used to be pals! THEY were the ones that went on to "rescue" him on the first movie. That ain't something you handwave just like that. As far I'm concerned, they weren't in the movie at all.
Not to mention their pretty anti-climatic, undeserving and pointless deaths.

On the topic of Sif, her non-cameo is probably the biggest sin of this movie. But at least they didn't turn her into a substitute GF

I've seen mentioned at another forum that Sif's actress was unavailable.

She was on Agents of Shield twice. I think it would be nice if Sif showed up on AoS this season. That is unlikely to happen though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

On the topic of Sif, her non-cameo is probably the biggest sin of this movie.

According to the director, in-canon she was banished (by sending her on a mission to some far off place) by Loki pretty much immediately after taking over the throne as one of the most likely people to see through his disguise (similarly to what he then did to Heimdall).

The actual RL reason was that there was a scheduling conflict. I have also heard rumours she might make it to the Infinity Wars film, though.

As to Thor not asking about the warriors three, he didn't even get a chance to learn about their deaths. They were fine when he first arrived, he was worried about his dad, and after that, he never gets a chance to learn of their deaths.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

I've seen mentioned at another forum that Sif's actress was unavailable.

Yes. Specifically, the people running Blindspot for NBC made sure to jumble her schedule to try and extract a concession for making her available. Instead, Marvel said 'nope' and hit her for the failure to appear fee in her contract, which NBC then had to eat because of the show contract.

BTW, this one-up-manship is fairly common between TV and movie studios.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes. Specifically, the people running Blindspot for NBC made sure to jumble her schedule to try and extract a concession for making her available. Instead, Marvel said 'nope' and hit her for the failure to appear fee in her contract, which NBC then had to eat because of the show contract.

BTW, this one-up-manship is fairly common between TV and movie studios.

Wow. Do you have a link to an article that goes through the details? About the only bright spot is that NBC paid the fine (rather than foisting it on Alexander), but it can't have been good for Alexander to be caught in the middle of a petty squabble.

GW

[Keltest]

As much as it sucks, I do think Marvel movies have a tendency to try and cram in too many characters as it is. I cant say I'm glad she didn't show up, but I think the extra moving parts wouldn't have helped the movie too much either.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As much as it sucks, I do think Marvel movies have a tendency to try and cram in too many characters as it is. I cant say I'm glad she didn't show up, but I think the extra moving parts wouldn't have helped the movie too much either.

I suspect that she would not have added to the character count, she'd just taken the spot that Valkyrie occupies, more or less (e.g. Thor is captured by an actually loyal scrapper, and Sif shows up to rescue him)

GW

[Lord Joeltion]

Oh, I know why Sif wasn't there. The most "likely" rumour I heard/read is that the actress simply refused to play the part both because of the leading role she plays in the series and because the role in the film wouldn't even worth her time (which I totally agree, given the role of the WT). The director may or may have not been to blame for her absence in Ragnarok; but one thing is true, and IIRC she also brought it up in an interview: Sif is the most wasted character in all the MCU. She could have set the template* for a "warrior princess"** in the big screen before WW, but the writers/producers simply refused.


As to Thor not asking about the warriors three, he didn't even get a chance to learn about their deaths. They were fine when he first arrived, he was worried about his dad, and after that, he never gets a chance to learn of their deaths.

I wasn't asking for writers to insert a scene with Thor caring a little more for them. I'm asking for them to show them some respect. Rewriting the movie to fit a scene or two wouldn't have hurt; specially considering the vast amount of minutes they wasted on silly jokes admittedly, some/most worked just fine, but a whole lot of them went from goofy to boring instead of building the story/climax.

*That is not to say she would have made a better prototype than Diana Prince; just that she could have been a good starting point for the trope in movies.
**Of course I mean a good WP. Previous role models flopped in theaters

[Sapphire Guard]

Meh... if she was in the movie, she'd probably have been killed by Hela. I'll take it.

[Mordar]

I'm glad they didn't try to take this one super seriously. Thor is, quite frankly, rather ridiculous, and they embraced it in this one instead of trying to cover it up like they did in the first one. I mean, he flies by throwing his hammer and not letting go. Better that they embrace the magic rather than try and make it science.

What? Why and how? Compare to the other Avengers and/or DC characters as you like, please!

- M

[Keltest]

What? Why and how? Compare to the other Avengers and/or DC characters as you like, please!

- M
I don't mean it in a bad way, but the character is rather out of place is the pseudo-sci-fi marvel setting.

Well, as I said, he flies by throwing his hammer and not letting go. He's a supremely powerful being from a race that was apparently quite capable of conquering reality if they want to... and they still use swords and spears, because they forgot how to make their super Gatling gun lasers or something.

[Lord Joeltion]

What? Why and how? Compare to the other Avengers and/or DC characters as you like, please!

- M
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/c6/Thor_as_a_Thunder_Frog.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090517140003

Don't get me wrong, when written appropriately he is probably more badass than any other man-in-tights out there (except -probably- Val Hallen), yet he had his low points. And MCU hasn't made him proper justice just yet....

[GloatingSwine]

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/c6/Thor_as_a_Thunder_Frog.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090517140003

Canon in the MCU as of this film...

[Eldan]

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/c6/Thor_as_a_Thunder_Frog.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090517140003

Don't get me wrong, when written appropriately he is probably more badass than any other man-in-tights out there (except -probably- Val Hallen), yet he had his low points. And MCU hasn't made him proper justice just yet....

Oh, come on. You can probably find pictures of pretty much any long-running American superhero being turned into an animal at some point.

Two minutes on google:

http://bh-s2.azureedge.net/bh-uploads/2016/01/Capwolf-1-1050x566.jpg
https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/f/03/5319ee2491846/portrait_incredible.jpg

[Mordar]

What? Why and how? Compare to the other Avengers and/or DC characters as you like, please!

- M


I don't mean it in a bad way, but the character is rather out of place is the pseudo-sci-fi marvel setting.

Well, as I said, he flies by throwing his hammer and not letting go. He's a supremely powerful being from a race that was apparently quite capable of conquering reality if they want to... and they still use swords and spears, because they forgot how to make their super Gatling gun lasers or something.

Ah, fair enough. More the "Thor Space Alien" issue than anything else...while I'd debate the Mjolnir thing a little bit, I see what you're saying. Wish they would have gone with the "traditional" instead of the new canon, but I totally get it.

Additinally, they do have a tendency to show the non-named characters as pointless mooks (see all the soldiers dying so easily in Thor 2 and the multiple wipes in 3) so the sword v. blaster thing matters somewhat less...but at least they showed the average joes fighting (and well!) against the dead warriors...that was nice, because I believe that all Asgardians should be able to fight as they are a Warrior culture (not just warmongers). At least that didn't get shuffled off!

- M

[Velaryon]

Saw the movie over the weekend, liked it better than the first for sure. I remember enjoying The Dark World, but it didn't stick with me at all and now I can't even remember the basic plot except that dark elves were involved somehow and I think there was an Infinity Gem.

I don't miss Natalie Portman's character at all, but maybe Kat Dennings's character just a little.

I didn't know that Doctor Strange was going to cameo in this movie, so that scene caught me totally off-guard and I loved every moment of it.

Hela's appearance was cool, but I expected a little more from the much-feared Goddess of Death than throwing swords at people. That's alright, it didn't take away much from the movie.

Overall, it isn't one of the very best Marvel films but I would say it's above average, and easily the best of Thor's solo films.

[Lord Joeltion]

Oh, come on. You can probably find pictures of pretty much any long-running American superhero being turned into an animal at some point.

Two minutes on google:

http://bh-s2.azureedge.net/bh-uploads/2016/01/Capwolf-1-1050x566.jpg
https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/f/03/5319ee2491846/portrait_incredible.jpg


But those are cool animals, so what's your point exactly?

Dragons>big cats>vampire/bats>werebeasts>unicorn/pegassi>saurians>falcons/hawks>any other bird>snakes>big canines/anything with big fangs>lesser cats>regular dogs>turtles*>mices*>fish*>arthropodes>worms>fungi>grass>a spec of dust>vacuum>vacuum>vacuum>vacuum>vacuum>FROGS

*They get a huge bonus if they have at least two adjectives/modifiers

[HolyDraconus]

Canon in the MCU as of this film...

Was mentioned in film. Is canon

[Vogie]

Was mentioned in film. Is canon

That's true - they joked about it in the second half, IIRC.


But they're right - Thor is set as a ridiculous in all of his settings. He has the swagger of an superpowered prince, all the time... which makes sense, because that was exactly what he was. The rest of the Avengers are either military-disciplined or brilliant scientists.

It's not just this movie either - he's had some great zingers and out-of-place seriousness that is disarmingly laughable throughout the MCU.



From Thor:
You think me strange? Good strange or bad strange?

This is great! I like it *Smash* Another!

... I need to buy a horse

From TtDW:
Is that why everything's on fire?

Hello! I accept your surrender!

From Avengers:
You people are so petty... and tiny.

Have a care how you speak! Loki is beyond reason, but he is of Asgard and he is my brother! [...] He's adopted...

From AAoU:
The gates of Hel are filled with the screams of his victims! But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no... wounded screams... mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and... gout.

Well, if there's too much weight, you lose power on the swing

These are... smaller agents.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That last line is Tony's, delivered about the time Thor steps on and crushes a toy.

[GloatingSwine]

The main difference in this film is that whenever anyone tries to deliberately do a Cool Superhero Thing (Valkyrie walking down her ship's ramp, Thor trying to break the window, Banner jumping out of the ship) slapstick happens to them.

Which I thought was hilarious.

[Aotrs Commander]

The main difference in this film is that whenever anyone tries to deliberately do a Cool Superhero Thing (Valkyrie walking down her ship's ramp, Thor trying to break the window, Banner jumping out of the ship) slapstick happens to them.

Which I thought was hilarious.

Oh frack, yes.

I LOVE that sort of humour.

[rooster707]

The main difference in this film is that whenever anyone tries to deliberately do a Cool Superhero Thing (Valkyrie walking down her ship's ramp, Thor trying to break the window, Banner jumping out of the ship) slapstick happens to them.

Which I thought was hilarious.

It was funny at first, but by the end it got kind of predictable. I think it might have been better if it didn't happen *every* time.

Anyway, after having a while to think about it, I've realized I actually really like the lighter tone of this movie, and I think it works pretty well for Thor. I just think it feels kind of weird when combined with the whole, y'know, Ragnarok thing.

[Lord Joeltion]

Anyway, after having a while to think about it, I've realized I actually really like the lighter tone of this movie, and I think it works pretty well for Thor. I just think it feels kind of weird when combined with the whole, y'know, Ragnarok thing.

Which is a similar argument the guy from HISHE did, and I completely agree. The writing, the acting, the tone, were pretty much aligned and varied from OK to really good. But it was the PLOT which was completely dissonant with the rest, and in turn made it pretty much bland on that aspect. It wasn't just that the plot was kind of clichéd or predictable; it was just... meh. Even the characters seemed to agree with that.

And don't get me wrong, the slapstick works when used correctly and just in the correct amount, but there were lots of jokes that fell flat and silly because of the overuse and/or dissonance with the mood in the scene. That's why it works perfectly in GotG and not so much* in a movie which is about the annihilation/fall of Space Jerusalem.

*It didn't work in the sense that lessened the narrative impact, not that it ruined the movie. In fact, I think the humor/action absolutely saved it from being as bad as the previous ones.

[Mordar]

I thought too much of the "funny" was forced and inappropriate, and now both the Collector and Grandmaster (and Ego, for that matter) seem to have been completely lampooned from what I remember. Does anyone else think a Collector that gets his collection undone by a slave girl and a Grandmaster, used to wagering the outcomes of solar systems on games of chance but now a backwater Caesar both missed the mark?

- M

Hooray! I'm not the only one...a key contributor to Marvel no less than Roy Thomas (also big with Conan...also a favorite "comic" character for me), creator of the Grandmaster, says:

Ignorant media person: Jeff Golblum is terrific as the Grandmaster, who you also created. How did that character develop?
Roy Thomas: I’ve loved Jeff Goldblum ever since Annie Hall, but he isn’t the kind of actor I would’ve thought of to play the Grandmaster. I saw him as more of a regal character than Goldblum generally plays, but I look forward to seeing it. Chess is a game that I love, and the whole idea of that character is a chess game. If the Grandmaster isn’t involved in playing some sort of game, then he doesn’t have much reason to exist. I’m sure the Grandmaster is playing some sort of game [in Ragnarok] even if it’s only mental.

Both Grandmaster and Collector have been given the slapstick treatment...kind of lose the gravitas as cosmic powers when they are shown in such a fashion. Oh well - important only to a small number of people, so I can't be too worked up about it. To be complete they should have Thanos go down the same road and have Chevy Chase replace Josh Brolin.

However, under no circumstance was Goldblum "...terrific as the Grandmaster...". He was barely passable as Jeff Goldblum. The makeup and wardrobe aside, he was the same as Ian Malcom, same as David Levinson...Bah.

- M

[Jeivar]

It was funny at first, but by the end it got kind of predictable. I think it might have been better if it didn't happen *every* time.

Yes, exactly. I'm the first to complain that American movies tend to be too sappy and take themselves too seriously, but a subversion just becomes annoying when you see it coming. When Banner made his dramatic leap down onto the Rainbow Bridge I knew exactly what was going to happen.

Surely SOME moment could have been done without a joke? Like, Rock Guy babbling as Asgard was being blown to nothing felt really out of place.

[Kitten Champion]

I just came back from it. I enjoyed quite a bit. It was the first Thor movie where I was legitimately enjoying it for Thor's presence, which I wasn't expecting going in. Another interesting bit I wasn't expecting was Cate Blanchett getting the best action scenes -- it felt like a hard-edged version of some Wuxia movies with similar premises, though I like the Gilgamesh from FSN comparison.

More importantly in general though, I think it lived up to the promise of the weirdness the other two movies suggested but were rather ill-formed to produce. It didn't have to tie itself into Earth and the romantic subplot with Jane Foster and company, freeing it to be this heavy metal opera with demi-gods and spaceships.

[Ramza00]

I just came back from it. I enjoyed quite a bit. It was the first Thor movie where I was legitimately enjoying it for Thor's presence, which I wasn't expecting going in. Another interesting bit I wasn't expecting was Cate Blanchett getting the best action scenes -- it felt like a hard-edged version of some Wuxia movies with similar premises, though I like the Gilgamesh from FSN comparison.

Not seeing any FSN, Gil, or Zasshus with Hel / Cate Blanchett.

[The Troubadour]

I don't know what some of you guys are talking about. Frog Thor was awesome.

[Dr.Samurai]

Wow. Let me be a party pooper here and say that I thought this movie was a big disappointment. There was a punchline every ten seconds. *Not a single thing* in this movie seemed to carry any sort of weight whatsoever. Let me get into spoiler territory here:

Loki - There's a lot to say here. But the gist is that Loki is worthless and extremely depowered. For a god of mischief and deception, he is awful at it. Thor sees right through him as Loki, in disguise, starts to stammer and choke up. Thor outsmarts him, again. He uses his illusions only to communicate from a distance. Then we get the same back and forth between him and Thor about being good, and betrayal and the same old same old (like Xavier/Mystique/Magneto). And his motivation for betraying Thor was so weak. The reward money is good. Give me a ****ing break. You're a god of deception. I'm sure you can find ways to make money hand over fist without needing to betray Thor in that instant. Lazy as **** writing.

Odin's death - Not sure what caused it. It's implied that Loki did it. Thor thinks that Loki caused it. But somehow, this is a forgivable sin. Loki killed your father, allowed Hela to be freed, and started Ragnarok, and you can yuk it up with him throughout the rest of the movie.

Thor's Hammer - Mjolnir gets destroyed and turns into a jerk-off punchline. Cool. Literally everything that happens in this movie is to serve up a punchline. Is Thor distraught over the loss of his hammer? Kind of? Not really, though. He talks about it lovingly so we can get the joke.

Thor vs Hulk - One giant joke.

Hulk and Black Widow - This scene with the video could have been dramatic. In fact, it was. I was like "Wow, is this what drove him to stay as the Hulk all this time. Did Banner get subjected to this in the jet and stay mad? Is he trying to remain the Hulk so he doesn't have to think about everything he's lost?" But as soon as we get Bruce Banner back, it's right back to joke-town. There's barely any horror at the idea of losing two years of Banner's life, he doesn't seem to be worried about what he's done in that time or if he's killed anyone. He is freaking out at the idea of being on an alien planet, which was cool.

Skurge - Total waste of a character. And I don't even know the comic book character, so I mean that strictly to this movie. He did absolutely nothing before his "redemption". Completely pointless. They tried to give him the most dramatic death in the movie and it fell completely flat. Speaking of which....

Thor's buddies - Why was this scene here? Totally pointless as well. If you're going to kill them, have them do something earlier to establish them.

Hela - Ok... she was cool. But again, they just take any drama or tension right out of the scene. She's subjecting Asgard to her rule and we get "Whoever I am?! Have you been listening to anything I've said?" har har har har. And interrupting Skurge. And when Thor's on the throne he's like "You're literally the worst." Right. She destroyed your hammer one handed and has killed every single person she's been up against, and she's stronger than you, but you're just going to get snarky with her because we need more laughs. She's going to destroy Asgard but why care? Thor doesn't care, so why should I care?

Banner's "sacrifice" - They set up a scene near the end where Banner is going to have to make a choice. Remain as Banner to save his humanity, or transform into the Hulk and lost his humanity forever. Not only did they not treat this right at the end, with Banner simply declaring that he's going to transform without the decision weighing heavy on him. But then you already know the punchline is coming because every single line/action in the movie has set up a punchline. So you can see it coming a mile away when Banner splats on Bifrost.

The End - So Thor has to sacrifice his home world to save his people. So they release Surtur to destroy it. Thor remains behind with Valkyrie but the people are safe. That's all that matters, as Valkyrie says in the movie. Is this sacrifice heartfelt? Emotional? Frustrating? No. It's funny, because the Hulk is going to leap at Surtur and punch him in the face. Hahaha. Then, when Asgard is literally blowing up, the stupid stone alien is going to give us a couple more punchlines. Yay. Just like the last stand on the bridge between Thor, Loki, and Valkyrie, and Hela. And Loki makes the "get help" joke.

This isn't a list of all the jokes in the movie, or all the jokes that I didn't like. It's a list of the moments in the movie where there could have been dramatic tension, but the movie went out of its way to undermine it every single time. It's like the movie is afraid to take itself seriously at all, so it doesn't take anything seriously. Everything is a joke. I hated it. Just like in Snyder's films, where I have to slog through how tough Superman has it, or how Lex thinks about gods and devils all the time, this movie had an excess in the opposite direction, and I found it almost entirely uninteresting.

To be clear, I'm fine with humor. I love humor. But this was way too much.

[Anteros]

I'm just going to put my responses in bold, because otherwise formatting this post would be a nightmare. Hope you don't mind.


Wow. Let me be a party pooper here and say that I thought this movie was a big disappointment. There was a punchline every ten seconds. *Not a single thing* in this movie seemed to carry any sort of weight whatsoever. Let me get into spoiler territory here:

Loki - There's a lot to say here. But the gist is that Loki is worthless and extremely depowered. For a god of mischief and deception, he is awful at it. Thor sees right through him as Loki, in disguise, starts to stammer and choke up. Thor outsmarts him, again. He uses his illusions only to communicate from a distance. Then we get the same back and forth between him and Thor about being good, and betrayal and the same old same old (like Xavier/Mystique/Magneto). And his motivation for betraying Thor was so weak. The reward money is good. Give me a ****ing break. You're a god of deception. I'm sure you can find ways to make money hand over fist without needing to betray Thor in that instant. Lazy as **** writing.

Thor has been betrayed by Loki dozens of times by this point. It's about time he finally saw through one.

Odin's death - Not sure what caused it. It's implied that Loki did it. Thor thinks that Loki caused it. But somehow, this is a forgivable sin. Loki killed your father, allowed Hela to be freed, and started Ragnarok, and you can yuk it up with him throughout the rest of the movie.

I don't think Thor actually blames Loki. Odin's exile was self imposed after all. He's just lashing out when he says that because he's angry. There's really no conceivable way that putting their all powerful dad in an old folk's home for a few weeks actually killed him.

Thor's Hammer - Mjolnir gets destroyed and turns into a jerk-off punchline. Cool. Literally everything that happens in this movie is to serve up a punchline. Is Thor distraught over the loss of his hammer? Kind of? Not really, though. He talks about it lovingly so we can get the joke.

He's growing as a character and doesn't have to use the hammer as a crutch anymore. I consider that good character development. Certainly better than watching him mope over an inanimate object.

Thor vs Hulk - One giant joke.

I thought it was serious enough for what it was. An over-the-top action scene.

Hulk and Black Widow - This scene with the video could have been dramatic. In fact, it was. I was like "Wow, is this what drove him to stay as the Hulk all this time. Did Banner get subjected to this in the jet and stay mad? Is he trying to remain the Hulk so he doesn't have to think about everything he's lost?" But as soon as we get Bruce Banner back, it's right back to joke-town. There's barely any horror at the idea of losing two years of Banner's life, he doesn't seem to be worried about what he's done in that time or if he's killed anyone. He is freaking out at the idea of being on an alien planet, which was cool.

Meh. The whole Hulk + BW romance is squicky and forced anyway.

Why would you want to watch a movie about Banner being emo over losing years of his life? How is that entertaining? How does it have any place in this kind of movie? He's a hero. He accepts his losses, moves on, and gets the job done. He also grows as a character when he chooses to become Hulk again,
despite worrying that it will be permanent.

Skurge - Total waste of a character. And I don't even know the comic book character, so I mean that strictly to this movie. He did absolutely nothing before his "redemption". Completely pointless. They tried to give him the most dramatic death in the movie and it fell completely flat. Speaking of which....

It's a comic book movie. Sometimes there are going to be references to characters from the comics. I've never even read the comic he was based on, but I thought his arc was telegraphed enough and made sense.

Thor's buddies - Why was this scene here? Totally pointless as well. If you're going to kill them, have them do something earlier to establish them.

Agree with this one. I actually wasn't even sure if it was them or just some characters that looked similar at first.

Hela - Ok... she was cool. But again, they just take any drama or tension right out of the scene. She's subjecting Asgard to her rule and we get "Whoever I am?! Have you been listening to anything I've said?" har har har har. And interrupting Skurge. And when Thor's on the throne he's like "You're literally the worst." Right. She destroyed your hammer one handed and has killed every single person she's been up against, and she's stronger than you, but you're just going to get snarky with her because we need more laughs. She's going to destroy Asgard but why care? Thor doesn't care, so why should I care?

Thor laughing and quipping in the face of overwhelming danger is entirely in character. That's what he always does. It doesn't mean he doesn't care.

Banner's "sacrifice" - They set up a scene near the end where Banner is going to have to make a choice. Remain as Banner to save his humanity, or transform into the Hulk and lost his humanity forever. Not only did they not treat this right at the end, with Banner simply declaring that he's going to transform without the decision weighing heavy on him. But then you already know the punchline is coming because every single line/action in the movie has set up a punchline. So you can see it coming a mile away when Banner splats on Bifrost.

Meh. It was still funny. Jokes don't have to be surprising if they're well executed. Besides, we already had the "transform and punch the monster" bit in Avengers. There's no reason to re-tread it.

The End - So Thor has to sacrifice his home world to save his people. So they release Surtur to destroy it. Thor remains behind with Valkyrie but the people are safe. That's all that matters, as Valkyrie says in the movie. Is this sacrifice heartfelt? Emotional? Frustrating? No. It's funny, because the Hulk is going to leap at Surtur and punch him in the face. Hahaha. Then, when Asgard is literally blowing up, the stupid stone alien is going to give us a couple more punchlines. Yay. Just like the last stand on the bridge between Thor, Loki, and Valkyrie, and Hela. And Loki makes the "get help" joke.

This isn't a list of all the jokes in the movie, or all the jokes that I didn't like. It's a list of the moments in the movie where there could have been dramatic tension, but the movie went out of its way to undermine it every single time. It's like the movie is afraid to take itself seriously at all, so it doesn't take anything seriously. Everything is a joke. I hated it. Just like in Snyder's films, where I have to slog through how tough Superman has it, or how Lex thinks about gods and devils all the time, this movie had an excess in the opposite direction, and I found it almost entirely uninteresting.

To be clear, I'm fine with humor. I love humor. But this was way too much.

To surmise...it seems like a lot of your complaints boil down to the characters being too flippant for their situations without regard for the fact that it's entirely in character for them to act that way. I'll agree that some of the jokes were forced, but it's hard to say that there were too many when you consider the fact that it's a comedy. I think you went into this expecting an entirely different type of movie than what they set out to deliver.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If it was going to be a comedy, they shouldn't have named it after one of the most famous tragedies in literature.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If it was going to be a comedy, they shouldn't have named it after one of the most famous tragedies in literature.

They didn't. I doubt "ragnarok" means anything to the large majority of movie-goers. If you think otherwise, then present some kind of back-up for that assertion. This is not "Thor: Prince of Space Denmark" or "Thor: Of Mice and Gods". Heck, I know about ragnarok, and I don't classify it as "tragedy".

GW

[Kitten Champion]

They didn't. I doubt "ragnarok" means anything to the large majority of movie-goers. If you think otherwise, then present some kind of back-up for that assertion. This is not "Thor: Prince of Space Denmark" or "Thor: Of Mice and Gods". Heck, I know about ragnarok, and I don't classify it as "tragedy".

GW

To paraphrase Moviebob, an epic Wagnerian conclusion to the Thor series would've been forced at this point. An unearned pretension given the last two, particularly when I don't think anyone really cared about Asgard as anything but a stage with a rather neat set design.

[Legato Endless]

Eh, it's fine. It's a colorful bubbly road trip and a step up overall for Thor. There's some really fun moments. It's basically taking what worked in the Dark World and throwing out everything that made that film a slog. It's probably not in my top whatever for the MCU, and it's nowhere near as good as it's immediate prequels Homecoming, Guardians 2, or Dr. Strange, but those films had a lot more going on in terms of emotion and theme.

I liked that Thor actually got to acquire himself well in the Colosseum fight, and Hulk, Valkyrie struck up a nice dynamic rounding out the group.

The only thing I didn't really get was how Asgard is a people, not a place suddenly gets inserted and repeated by everyone 10 times in the last 10 minutes of the film. Arc words are normally presented like, with the arc. Did one of the editors fall asleep and realize, oh crap, we forgot to insert this earlier into the movie like a normal narrative so we need to compensate?


I'm just going to put my responses in bold, because otherwise formatting this post would be a nightmare. Hope you don't mind.

To surmise...it seems like a lot of your complaints boil down to the characters being too flippant for their situations without regard for the fact that it's entirely in character for them to act that way. I'll agree that some of the jokes were forced, but it's hard to say that there were too many when you consider the fact that it's a comedy. I think you went into this expecting an entirely different type of movie than what they set out to deliver.

Eh, a lot of comedies aren't this tonally uniform so I think it's a fair critique if you don't like this type of structure. The rapid fire one snark every thirty seconds isn't particularly endemic to the genre. Along a similar line, plenty of classic comedies or otherwise escapist fodder meditate on heavier fare, stuff by Wes Anderson and Bill Murray comes to mind immediately, so having Banner mediate on what the heck his experiences mean more than a shrug would be a pretty standard expectation as opposed to what was delivered...which was just a plot device.

I find the comparison to GotG to be pretty telling here but also somewhat misleading. Neither Guardians is paced at all like this film, this is definitely denser and wackier. I came in expecting a frothy pile of colorful nonsense, but if a viewer expected something beyond a few stock character beats, they're not getting much aside from the almost background reconciliation of Loki and Thor. Similarly, Hela's fine as an invincible obstacle for Thor to defeat in an unconventional way. As an actual character, she's flat compared to Ego, Vulture, or even Zemo. (Still better than evil mage in Strange though)

Irreverent as Guardians is, it still plays a number of dramatic -even mushy scenes- completely straight, culminating in Yondu's funeral. The second is more nuanced about this but even the first film takes time out from telling a joke to set up something more. People enjoy contrasts, the same way many of the most beloved action films have very quiet scenes judiciously sprinkled in to maximize effect.

[Eldan]

Just got to saw it. Thought it was fine. I was thoroughly entertained, thought the graver moments got (just barely) enough time to breathe. Only thing that annoyed me was how useless Loki was in this one. He didn't even do much magic, he tried swordfighting. That's not his thing.

[Dr.Samurai]

Thor has been betrayed by Loki dozens of times by this point. It's about time he finally saw through one.
My memory may be off here, but I thought they already saw through his scheming in the second Thor movie. The dynamic between Thor and Loki has been played out, and it's causing Loki to be a totally useless character. He has been seeking the throne since we've been introduced to him. And now that he has it he... watches plays that glorify him? This is the villainous tyranny we've been fearful of? Dishonest retellings of their previous adventures? Then he gets straight up pwned by Dr. Strange, effortlessly.

He's been reduced to Gimli-levels of comedic relief.

I don't think Thor actually blames Loki. Odin's exile was self imposed after all. He's just lashing out when he says that because he's angry. There's really no conceivable way that putting their all powerful dad in an old folk's home for a few weeks actually killed him.
I think Thor does actually blame Loki. I think Asgardians draw their strength from Asgard (as explained) and when Loki exiled Odin (it wasn't self-imposed, Loki put him there), he began to lose power and eventually died.

Whatever your thoughts on it are, I don't think Thor has any reason to *not* think Loki didn't somehow cause the events of the movie. So the fact that they're still chumming it up with their (now tired) back and forth is strange.

He's growing as a character and doesn't have to use the hammer as a crutch anymore.
In the scene I'm referring to there is no growth. Thor, at that time, believes he is weak/er without the hammer.

I consider that good character development. Certainly better than watching him mope over an inanimate object.
Anteros, no one is suggesting he mope, and it is certainly more than an inanimate object, given that it is his symbol as the god of thunder and it was central to his origin story in the first movie. The point is that nothing in this movie is treated seriously to any degree. Everything is taken lightly. In Age of Ultron, when Vision hands him his hammer, there is some humor in it because of Thor's reaction. But there is still some weight to the scene because the movie is demonstrating to you the measure of Vision's character. Here, the hammer is destroyed and... nothing. Let's joke about it some more. Let's get meta and talk about it like a nerd at a comic book store.

I thought it was serious enough for what it was. An over-the-top action scene.
Sure. Serious. We've got the "friend from work" bit from the trailers. Goldblum being Goldblum. The callback to Loki's thrashing and Loki's reaction, the parody of Natasha calming him down. All of these jokes are fine, and funny. But one after the other is tiring. At that point you're just watching a non-stop comedy reel with stuff happening on the screen.

Why would you want to watch a movie about Banner being emo over losing years of his life?
Lol. So if I want Thor to at least care a little bit that he lost his hammer, I want to watch him moping. And if I want Banner to care a little bit that he's been Hulk for two years, I want to watch a movie about Banner being emo. I think we can talk about this without you mischaracterizing my points.

How is that entertaining? How does it have any place in this kind of movie?
How does Bruce Banner have any place in a movie with Bruce Banner in it? He's a character. Watching characters in a movie is entertaining. Bruce's character is typically doing everything in his power *not* to become the Hulk. He has even tried to kill himself. So if he finds out he's been the Hulk for two straight years, I would expect a different reaction. We get tight pants jokes, strongest Avenger jokes, I beat you easily jokes, do I know you? I feel like I know you jokes. My complaint is that the humor is prioritized.

He's a hero. He accepts his losses, moves on, and gets the job done.
Right. Remember when Black Widow was like "Hey, easy big guy, you don't want to transform..." and Banner was like "I'm a hero, I get the job done. If I kill some innocent people because I'm raging out as the hulk, so be it. I'll just accept the losses and move on."

Yeah, that's Banner alright...

He also grows as a character when he chooses to become Hulk again, despite worrying that it will be permanent.
It was poorly handled. And I didn't see growth. He should have struggled to make that choice, and instead we get the resolution to the "do I know you" bit. Instead of saying something like "Tell Thor I can't turn back and to leave me behind" or "Tell Natasha I'm sorry" he says "You want to know who I really am?" (paraphrasing there). It's out of character, as opposed to character growth.

It's a comic book movie. Sometimes there are going to be references to characters from the comics.
No kidding :smallconfused: ???

I've never even read the comic he was based on, but I thought his arc was telegraphed enough and made sense.
He didn't do anything that required his death though. He didn't hurt anyone. He didn't fight anyone. He didn't do anything. The undead crawling up the ship was manufactured simply to "redeem" him for what? I don't know. Pointless.

Thor laughing and quipping in the face of overwhelming danger is entirely in character. That's what he always does. It doesn't mean he doesn't care.
She destroyed his hammer with one hand and practically zero effort. If I remember correctly, Thor believed this to be impossible (he says as much when it happens). Loki and Valkyrie both say she is stronger than Thor. Thor, at this time, thinks she could only be stopped by Odin, who he believes to be stronger than him. Recall, they don't even have a plan to stop her. Thor is merely distracting her to give Banner and Valkyrie the opportunity to have Heimdall evacuate the Asgardians. Thor believes he is weaker without his hammer.

This is all setting up what should be a rather heroic sacrifice. Instead of Thor sauntering up to a giant with his hammer in hand confident that he's going to wreck it, he's going up against a sister he didn't even know about because she's so strong even Odin couldn't defeat her and had to bind her away. She killed all the valkyries. She destroyed his hammer. She, seemingly, can't be beat. When Thor and Valkyrie say "All that matters is that we get the people out of there" they are preparing to sacrifice themselves for Asgard. But the actual *heroic* element of this movie is still not given a chance to be appreciated. Because it's all jokes non-stop.

Meh. It was still funny. Jokes don't have to be surprising if they're well executed. Besides, we already had the "transform and punch the monster" bit in Avengers. There's no reason to re-tread it.

I think you're missing my point. There was too much of it. Banner is sacrificing his humanity here.

And yes, part of a punchline is the set up and the "surprise". And when the movie is making fun of itself relentlessly, the joke loses its punch if you know Banner is going to splat on the bridge seconds before it happens.

This movie was nonstop jokes. From the very beginning, when Surtur is explaining the premise of the movie (Ragnarok) and Thor is turning around in his chains, to the very end, when Ragnarok actually happens and Asgard is exploding and Kord is commenting on rebuilding the planet.

To surmise...it seems like a lot of your complaints boil down to the characters being too flippant for their situations without regard for the fact that it's entirely in character for them to act that way.
My complaints are that Odin is dead, the hammer is destroyed, an unstoppable enemy needs to be stopped, Asgard is destroyed, etc and throughout all of this you're not given a moment to feel tension, or sadness, or excitement, or really much of anything. You're just hit with quip after quip after quip.

Being flippant is not the only thing Thor (really the only person you're talking about here) can be characterized as. He was exiled in the first movie for being arrogant and rebellious. He had to earn the right to wield the hammer again. He fell in love. He struggles with his relationship between him and his father, his brother, and both together. There's a lot of stuff there. I don't care if Thor is flippant in situations. But some situations are dramatic and should be treated in that way. At least a little bit.

I'll agree that some of the jokes were forced, but it's hard to say that there were too many when you consider the fact that it's a comedy.
It's also billed as a drama lol. And not all comedies follow this structure.

I think you went into this expecting an entirely different type of movie than what they set out to deliver.
Well, I did say I was disappointed lol, so... :smallwink:

But still, I think you're being unfair when you say "entirely different". I expected humor. It's part of the charm of the Marvel movies. But this seemed to go out of its way to not take anything happening in the movie seriously. That's atypical of the Marvel movies. Even Guardians, that everyone is comparing it to, allowed itself to be serious and cheesy at times. It allowed its characters to act like actual people. Ragnarok doesn't do that.

[Mechalich]

I find the comparison to GotG to be pretty telling here but also somewhat misleading. Neither Guardians is paced at all like this film, this is definitely denser and wackier. I came in expecting a frothy pile of colorful nonsense, but if a viewer expected something beyond a few stock character beats, they're not getting much aside from the almost background reconciliation of Loki and Thor. Similarly, Hela's fine as an invincible obstacle for Thor to defeat in an unconventional way. As an actual character, she's flat compared to Ego, Vulture, or even Zemo. (Still better than evil mage in Strange though)

I thought Hela was fine. Kate Blanchet leaned into the role hard and was suitably menacing and her motive - Odin stole her birthright - was nice and straightforward and appropriate for the generally mythic approach you have to take with Thor stuff. I do wish she'd been given a better collaborator than Scourge though , undead armies are cool and all but have the unfortunate side effect of being not very talkative, so with Asgard generally united in opposition Hela had little to bounce off anyone. She could have used more fun scenes like walking through the vault.


Irreverent as Guardians is, it still plays a number of dramatic -even mushy scenes- completely straight, culminating in Yondu's funeral. The second is more nuanced about this but even the first film takes time out from telling a joke to set up something more. People enjoy contrasts, the same way many of the most beloved action films have very quiet scenes judiciously sprinkled in to maximize effect.

I think Guardians was better positioned to do this than Thor ever was. While most of the Guardians are ridiculous Gamora and to a lesser extent Star Lord are much more grounded and able to play scenes like that more effectively. If you're working with Thor, Hulk, Valkyrie, and Loki your best dramatic vessel of those four is actually Loki so, um, yeah. If we get future Thor films I'd like to see Heimdall as a main team member who could help setup some bigger dramatic lifts (as it seems that Sif will not be coming back short of being recast).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Don't count on that, since Blindspot currently has some of the worst ratings outside of the CW (and is far and away the worst rated show on NBC, coming in well below even Blacklist). Jaimie Alexander could well be having her schedule open up.

[Cikomyr]

Guys, we know the last Infinity Stone is the Soul, and Orange.

Hmmmm.. what would Soul power be? Maybe.. raise the dead back to life? Infuse death husks with the distorted nature of the Soul's weilder? Restore a Fire Giant back to life and empower him to world-shattering potential

[Ramza00]

Guys, we know the last Infinity Stone is the Soul, and Orange.

Hmmmm.. what would Soul power be? Maybe.. raise the dead back to life? Infuse death husks with the distorted nature of the Soul's weilder? Restore a Fire Giant back to life and empower him to world-shattering potential

Testing my memory for I have not seen the Thor Movie in the last 48 hours.

So if I recall at the end of Thor 2 they gave the Aether / Essence of the Reality Gem to the Collector for they did not want to have the Cube / Tesseract / Essence of the Space Gem in the same place as the Aether. The Tesseract being recaptured in Avengers 1 which takes place prior to Thor 2, and the Tesseract being stored in Odin's valut.

So the Aether / Reality Gem was given to the Collector. The collector then tried in Guardians of the Galaxy 1 to gain control of the Power Gem but the Power Gem is now with Xandar.

-----

So if the Eternal Flame is the Soul Gem, wouldn't that mean Loki / Warriors Three would not want to keep this gem next to the tesseract and the aether? The only way for this to make sense is for Loki / Warrior's three to not be aware that the Eternal Flame is an infinity stone.

If the Eternal Flame is an Infinity Stone than at one time but not at the same time Loki was in possession / relative possession of the mind stone (his staff in Avengers 1), the Tesseract (Avengers 1, and after Thor 2 to 3), the Aether (Thor 2 before he has the warrior 3 give it to the Collector), and the Eternal Flame (stuck in Odin's Vault).

The only infinity gems Loki did not have access to was the Time Stone being hidden / contained in the Eye of Agamotto and being wielded by Dr. Strange, and the Power Gem associated by the Guardians of the Galaxy and now stuck on Xandar.

[Legato Endless]

If the Soul Stone is going to be introduced before Avengers 3, and that seems a good bet considering everything else that film will have to showcase, it seems far more probable it'll get its own film as a central plot point than a later revelation.

Especially considering: "In my culture, death is not the end. It's more of a stepping off point." -Black Panther

[Vogie]

Especially considering: "In my culture, death is not the end. It's more of a stepping off point." -Black Panther

My original theory was that Heimdall was either the Soul Stone himself, or had it embedded in him somehow. However, as more Black Panther stuff comes out, especially this concept of a Meteor smashing into Wakanda and causing weird things to happen, I'm now leaning that it will be released during BP, and maybe a hidden super-McGuffin of the film. My main complaint with that is I dislike 3 incredibly powerful artifacts just showing up on Earth (the others being the Tesseract and the Eye of Agamatto, but at least the lore is that Odin brought the Tesseract here, which is excusable)... whenever that happens it bugs me.

Alternatively, it may be the cause/resolution of the Infinity War, as the 2nd Guardians of the Galaxy teaser gave a nod to the introduction of Adam Warlock, who was the bearer of the stone in the comics.

[Keltest]

My original theory was that Heimdall was either the Soul Stone himself, or had it embedded in him somehow. However, as more Black Panther stuff comes out, especially this concept of a Meteor smashing into Wakanda and causing weird things to happen, I'm now leaning that it will be released during BP, and maybe a hidden super-McGuffin of the film. My main complaint with that is I dislike 3 incredibly powerful artifacts just showing up on Earth (the others being the Tesseract and the Eye of Agamatto, but at least the lore is that Odin brought the Tesseract here, which is excusable)... whenever that happens it bugs me.

Alternatively, it may be the cause/resolution of the Infinity War, as the 2nd Guardians of the Galaxy teaser gave a nod to the introduction of Adam Warlock, who was the bearer of the stone in the comics.

Doesn't Thor mention how incredibly weird it is to have so many infinity stones start showing up, and commenting that something bigger is going on in the background at the end of Age of Ultron?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yes, but it doesn't explain why all five that have appeared have ended up in the hands of humans (or half human, in Quill's case).

[Keltest]

Yes, but it doesn't explain why all five that have appeared have ended up in the hands of humans (or half human, in Quill's case).

They haven't?

The tesseract was on Asgard, the Mind Stone was in the hands of Thanos, then Loki, then Ultron, then the Vision, none of who are humans, the Aether is currently in the possession of the Collector, who isn't human, and the Power Stone changed hands a lot, so being in possession of a (half) human for a while isn't that unlikely.

Only the Time Stone in the Eye of Agamotto has ever been held entirely on earth by humans.

[BWR]

Yes, but it doesn't explain why all five that have appeared have ended up in the hands of humans (or half human, in Quill's case).



For the same reason most superheroes and villains in American comics are in the US, or why giant monsters or mechs attack Japan, why aliens always land in one of these two countries, and why bigger landmasses and other countries never seem to get much by the way of attention.

[The Glyphstone]

Having seen it and enjoyed it, there's only one thing I wish they had done differently.


After Helya cuts out Thor's eye and he Thunders out, I was expecting and hoping for him to have some sort of glowy lightning orb in his empty socket to match his glowing regular eye. No luck, though it would have been a very cool visual.

[Rogar Demonblud]

They haven't?

The tesseract was on Asgard, the Mind Stone was in the hands of Thanos, then Loki, then Ultron, then the Vision, none of who are humans, the Aether is currently in the possession of the Collector, who isn't human, and the Power Stone changed hands a lot, so being in possession of a (half) human for a while isn't that unlikely.

Only the Time Stone in the Eye of Agamotto has ever been held entirely on earth by humans.

Lots of incorrect data there. The Tesseract was left on Earth at some point in pre-history, was seized and used by HYDRA, later seized and used by SHIELD (all of whom are human), then Loki grabbed it, gave it to another human (Selvig) and only after the invasion did it go to Asgard. The Mind Stone was in the hands of SHIELD, then HYDRA, then the Avengers, then Ultron and now Vision. The Aether was implanted in Jane Foster (yet another human) and the Power Stone was held by Quill figuratively and literally. And the sorcerers had and still have the Time Stone.

So in less than a decade, five of the Infinity Stones have been in human hands. One species of the uncounted myriad in the galaxy.

[Anteros]

Well...humans tend to be the protagonists of these stories. For fairly obvious reasons. If we had 15 movies about some other race maybe they'd be ending up with the plot devices instead.

[Keltest]

Well...humans tend to be the protagonists of these stories. For fairly obvious reasons. If we had 15 movies about some other race maybe they'd be ending up with the plot devices instead.

Indeed. If youre counting "was briefly held by a human, without doing anything of note with it", then the obvious explanation is "Well, that's what most of the people on Earth are."

Like, are you expecting a movie about the Kree and Skrulls fighting on earth over these things with no human interference at all?

[Kato]

Yes, exactly. I'm the first to complain that American movies tend to be too sappy and take themselves too seriously, but a subversion just becomes annoying when you see it coming. When Banner made his dramatic leap down onto the Rainbow Bridge I knew exactly what was going to happen.

Surely SOME moment could have been done without a joke? Like, Rock Guy babbling as Asgard was being blown to nothing felt really out of place.

This is very accurate...
I absolutely love a good action comedy but somehow this one felt... Too much.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the movie. It were fine two hours spent, but if they had cut down on the jokes just a little bit it could have been a really good movie. Pretty much all the emotional impact was lost among the barrage of jokes (many of which were genuinely funny).

I guess there are some minor other things that bother me, like how the Warriors Three were treated mostly or the absence of Sif (honestly, what the hel?) and Goldblum's character wasn't my favorite... And while I always enjoy seeing Cumberbatch his appearance was quite pointless and also a bit too comedic.
But I will give them credit for a good finale, again. Not quite on par with Strange but still.


Overall, a fine movie that could have been better with a little more seriousness. Still a decent watch.

[Lord Joeltion]

Overall, a fine movie that could have been better with a little more seriousness. Still a decent watch.

Well, for people who prefer a tad less overly-comedic-superhero-flick, just wait for Justice League. You will be in for a treat :smallwink: It was A-W-E-S-O-M-E

[Cikomyr]

Can someone remember if the Very Old Picture of Odin and Hela had Odin with a missing eye?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Can someone remember if the Very Old Picture of Odin and Hela had Odin with a missing eye?

In the old picture, Odin had both eyes. I remember that distinctly. I am less sure, but I think he lost the eye during the banishment? Or the loss of the eye caused him to consider the banishment?

GW

[Keltest]

In the old picture, Odin had both eyes. I remember that distinctly. I am less sure, but I think he lost the eye during the banishment? Or the loss of the eye caused him to consider the banishment?

GW

I thought he lost his eye to the Frost Giants in the battle where he found baby Loki?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I thought he lost his eye to the Frost Giants in the battle where he found baby Loki?

Maybe that was it; losing the eye made him realise that constant war was a bad idea, and Hela disagreed, leading to Odin having to banish her. As I said, I vaguely remember a reference from Hela about losing the eye having changed Odin, but I don't remember the details, unfortunately.

Grey Wolf

[Cikomyr]

Yhea, that is actually what I was wondering. If losing the eye made him see Loki and the potential for peaceful Asgard.

Political joke: Hela wanted to Make Asgard Great... Ill let you finish. ;)

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, for people who prefer a tad less overly-comedic-superhero-flick, just wait for Justice League. You will be in for a treat :smallwink: It was A-W-E-S-O-M-E

Slight tangent... Without spoilers, obviously - it rates quite well, then? More towards the Wonder Woman end of the spectrum? I'd said if it was half as good as that, it'd be quite jolly. They hit the right balance, after all, then?

[Cikomyr]

Slight tangent... Without spoilers, obviously - it rates quite well, then? More towards the Wonder Woman end of the spectrum? I'd said if it was half as good as that, it'd be quite jolly. They hit the right balance, after all, then?

Moviebob and Rottentomatoes seem to rate it pretty low. I know i am not really interested in seeing it.

[GloatingSwine]

As far as I can tell from the reviews JL is acceptable but a bit dull, with good bants between the leads but a messy structure and uninteresting villain who is clearly a setup for something else (because the only notable trait Steppenwolf even has is "works for Darksied"). (IIRC the Guardian called it a two hour trailer for its own sequel)

Which is a big step up from the usual for DC.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Slight tangent... Without spoilers, obviously - it rates quite well, then? More towards the Wonder Woman end of the spectrum? I'd said if it was half as good as that, it'd be quite jolly. They hit the right balance, after all, then?

Moviebob rates it "about as good as suicide squad", "better than Batman v Superman" and "nowhere near as good as Wonder Woman". I'm going to give it a pass.

GW

[Lord Joeltion]

Slight tangent... Without spoilers, obviously - it rates quite well, then? More towards the Wonder Woman end of the spectrum? I'd said if it was half as good as that, it'd be quite jolly. They hit the right balance, after all, then?

Well, I watched the premiere*, and as a Marvel fan I can testify that I enjoyed it a LOT more than other Marvel Team-Ups flicks. It has some humor but just enough (all jokes at appropriate time, in tone with the scene and fitting to the character in question); and like most team-up films: plenty action/tension. My gal, who is a big time Wonder Woman fan, confessed me that she actually liked this one a lil more than WW (but she also likes Batfleck, so...**).

Probably I will find it some more details/nitpics, but as a whole, I think DC/Warner made an excellent job, which couldn't have been easy given the Team-Up structure. But characters were well defined and properly introduced (specially the "new" trio), and the plot actually makes sense (unlike BvS). If I had to compare it with something, I would compare it with the average JLA animated film, because IMHO it's written better than every Avenger movie. No point comparing this one with Avengers, at all. Also not spoilers below (really), but if interested:

-The interaction between them, both as a team and in couples (Bat-Wond; Cyborg-Flash; Aqua-Bat; etc.)
-The humans actually help develop the plot/characters and don't get in the middle, as is usual in every super movie. They get just the focus they deserve, and not more.
-Cyborg. This one is bc I had the lowest expectations for him. I was proven wrong.
-And Clark's return wasn't treated as the "big surprise" like I feared. We loved that gesture from the writers. They're finally treating us like adults with access to internet
-As per rule of every super hero movie ever (except Batman's); don't expect much from the villain. He functions just as another Hela/Ultron/whatever. And he's all CGI, which I didn't like.
-The CGI is "only" average. It's not jarringly awful (except for the opening scene, beware), but its not the movie's forte either. Some people might bash against it (unjustified in my opinion, but well).
-Flash's CGI and composition of him using his power is excellent (way way way better than both Pietro's) but... man, the actor sometimes runs like Phoebe Buffay :smallbiggrin:
-Other people commented to me that editing of the film and some parts of the structure were odd. While I can see why they said that, I didn't find it worse than the average hero movie. And another people, who aren't comics fans at all, werent confused and managed to follow the plot; so it's probably a question of taste and preferences (or how much nerdy/hipster/fanboy you wanna be).
*Unsure whether the official release is slightly different or not. We thought some scenes from the trailers were missing, like it happened with Rogue One. I will check out in a couple hours (today is the official release here)
**She also likes Momoa's Aquaman :smallannoyed: IMMNOTJEALOUSSTOPLOOKINATME


Moviebob rates it "about as good as suicide squad", "better than Batman v Superman" and "nowhere near as good as Wonder Woman". I'm going to give it a pass.

GW
Somebody actually thinks Suicide is NOT the worst of the three? :smallconfused: At least BvS had cool fighting scenes, lol

[Eldan]

STEPPENWOLF? Bwahahahah. Oh man. Did they really call a villain that?

[Razade]

STEPPENWOLF? Bwahahahah. Oh man. Did they really call a villain that?

Yeah, since 1972.

[Legato Endless]

Somebody actually thinks Suicide is NOT the worst of the three? :smallconfused: At least BvS had cool fighting scenes, lol

Yeah, it's a bit odd to me too, with the obvious proviso tastes vary and neither was frankly generally enjoyable.

Personally, Dawn of Justice is a convoluted, badly executed, and features a very odd narrative structure that does it no favors. It also squanders (a marked few) legitimately good ideas like updating Lex from an industrialist to a Facebook/Apple style billionaire. The only real genuine takeaways is the live action Arkham Asylum fight and Gal Gadot managing to make an impact with comparatively little material.

Suicide Squad on the other hand doesn't have a narrative at all. It's just a hodgepodge of random scenes and reshoots eventually scrambled into something vaguely resembling a story that makes less sense the closer one looks, complete with call backs to things that didn't happen, set ups that get no payoff, characters which either vanish or reappear with no logic within or without the story, topped with some pretty awful cinematography. The entire affair is dull exercise in incoherence.

[Kato]

@ Thor : I forgot to mention the movie kind of ruined the fan theory about Heimdall possessing an infinity stone.. Or at least it did nothing to encourage it, what with the suspicious item being absent as far as I remember.


@ DC : I'm not super hyped for JL but I guess I will watch it just so I can know what I complain about. I know, that's not best practice but still..
As for SQ and DoJ.. Both are not.. Good movies. And neither is... well, yes, bad, but not abysmal, imo. Each has its strengths compared with the other. I'd say I liked SQ slightly more because I expected less? Not less than I got but less than from DoJ.

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, JL is the second DC movie after WW that Mum and I have thought we might see (the last previous being Green Lantern, which we enjoyed (being in the minority)). The fact it has some levity in it (unlike the NolanBat, MoS or BvS) means unless it is as dire as BvS, it ought to be at least a reasonable watch. (But obviously, the reason I'm asking is to, for a large extent, ascertain it isn't...)

[Anteros]

It's good to see you're all going in to see the movie with an unbiased opinion. :smallannoyed:

[Cikomyr]

It's good to see you're all going in to see the movie with an unbiased opinion. :smallannoyed:

Yup. Its really sad that Marvel movie has had an established track record of entertaining and well crafted movies, familiar characters that we care about, and an overall feel of comedy/epic hybrid.

We just cannot approach Thor Ragnarok without some bias. Some of us only go see it BECAUSE of that bias and the previously mentioned solid track record.

Its almost as if a movie studio expects us to base expectations on previous movies when they create a massive multi-movie universe. After all, otherwise, what would be the point?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Slight tangent... Without spoilers, obviously - it rates quite well, then? More towards the Wonder Woman end of the spectrum? I'd said if it was half as good as that, it'd be quite jolly. They hit the right balance, after all, then?

The initial reviews were about 58-60 (well below WW), and as the non-fan ratings started to come in the numbers dropped fast. At last check, it's sitting about 40, so still better than MOS, DOJ and SuSq.

So DC/WB still haven't hit their groove, but it'll still make decent bank.

[Aotrs Commander]

The initial reviews were about 58-60 (well below WW), and as the non-fan ratings started to come in the numbers dropped fast. At last check, it's sitting about 40, so still better than MOS, DOJ and SuSq.

So DC/WB still haven't hit their groove, but it'll still make decent bank.

'Bout the same as GL, then, which suggests it won't be an intolerably bad watch, but I can set my expectations accordingly...!

[Lord Joeltion]

STEPPENWOLF? Bwahahahah. Oh man. Did they really call a villain that?

Hey! His book (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppenwolf_(novel)) is a masterpiece! :smalltongue:

BTW: Do seriously people even care whatever critics ever said? Other than funny reviews/parodies, I mean

Personally, I find checking critiques/scores the same kind of activity as reading plot summaries before actually reading a novel: Absurd and pointless.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

BTW: Do seriously people even care whatever critics ever said?=

Yes. Because some of us don't have infinite leisure time (or infinite leisure budgets), and thus do not appreciate sinking multiple hours into an "entertainment" that turns out to be nothing of the sort.

Therefore, we identify individuals whose opinions are close enough to ours that they can be trusted when they tell us if the entertainment is worth the time/money expense.

For example, I do not trust your opinion in any of this, based on what films you have declared to be good or bad in the past. Or rather, I can trust your opinion to be sufficiently anathema to mine that I would seriously consider watching a film you have declared to be bad, and would think twice of watching a film you have declared to be great. That is because for whatever reason, you enjoy aspects of a film I don't care about, and complain about the bits that I do like.

Grey Wolf

[Cikomyr]

Hey! His book (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppenwolf_(novel)) is a masterpiece! :smalltongue:

BTW: Do seriously people even care whatever critics ever said? Other than funny reviews/parodies, I mean

Personally, I find checking critiques/scores the same kind of activity as reading plot summaries before actually reading a novel: Absurd and pointless.

Checking overall scores from Rottentomatoes is only good to have an impression of how the movie might fare at the box office...

But its uselss to determine if you should see it. Instead, find critics you feel have the same tastes as you, and listen to their actual argument. I respect MovieBob's reviews, for example. But he often downgrade a movie with points that i know i dont care about or i actually like.

You have to make and intelligent assessment based on the data provided. Not take raw input and reach a decision regardless of context.

[Kitten Champion]

Yes. Because some of us don't have infinite leisure time (or infinite leisure budgets), and thus do not appreciate sinking multiple hours into an "entertainment" that turns out to be nothing of the sort.

Yeah. I usually see theatrical releases with my mother a week or two after opening weekend, it's something we do as a thing on a monthly basis unless there's nothing to see or there's something else she's interested in doing like the ballet or a play/musical. She's declared definitely she won't pay theater prices for a movie which gets middling-or-less reviews from her newspaper's critic ever again.

Factoring in the time from driving there to buying tickets to the movie itself and driving back home again, plus the +$25 in ticket costs for two adults now, and that movie-going can be a crap-shoot in terms of audiences being obnoxious or the theater experiencing technical issues (which happens more frequently with 3D movies I find), and that she has a quality modern wide-screen TV with a Blu-Ray player to watch movies which we can get relatively easily from the local library a few months later -- she's no reason to waste half a day and good money to prove the movie critic wrong.

[Aotrs Commander]

BTW: Do seriously people even care whatever critics ever said? Other than funny reviews/parodies, I mean

Personally, I find checking critiques/scores the same kind of activity as reading plot summaries before actually reading a novel: Absurd and pointless.

I always do some research before buying a game (especially nowadays) or any other product I purchase, why would movies or TV be any different?

If it's something that I think I will definitely like from the trailers (e.g. (most of) the Marvel movies1, the Star Wars prequels (yes, I DID like those), Lord of the Rings) - or if the movie looks so dreadful from the trailers (Fan4stic, BvS) then I don't need to, but for stuff that is borderline from that basis (Ghostbusters 2016, Wonder Woman - The Last Jedi (whch inspired nowt but meh in me)), then yes, I like to have some rough opinions before I part with my (or Mum's) cash.

I don't set a lot of store by aggregate critical sites (aside as a weather guage) by themselves, but in conjunction with People I Have Talked To or my own impressions - or more, rarely, interner reviewers - they can be a deciding factor.




1Except Guardians of the Galaxy 1, because of Rocket Racoon, because I have NEVER forgiven him for wasting space with his anthropamorphic animal crap in the back of my Transformers comic. In fact, you can directly trace my dislike of anthropamorhic animals to his 1985 miniseries. I eventually saw Guardians on DVD after every pursuaded me otherwise.

[Dr.Samurai]

BTW: Do seriously people even care whatever critics ever said?
I do. But after I watch a movie. Usually because I don't like the movie and most of my friends or family do. For many people, you don't get more out of them than "It was great/really funny/awesome" etc. So checking with critics to see what I'm missing is enjoyable. Most of the time, it doesn't do anything for me as far as changing my opinion, and I prefer listening to critics that *do* share my actual opinion.

As an example, many people think Days of Future Past is a great movie, and one of (if not the) best X-Men movies, and I walked out of the theater hating it. But I, in general, am not a fan of the X-Men movie franchise and think they should reboot it at this point. That said, I watched a bunch of movie reviews and listened to everyone talking about how great it was. I didn't really see anything that I had missed to make me rethink it. So I watched CBG19's review and enjoyed 40+ minutes of validation as she complained about the movie and the franchise as a whole.

On the flip side, I didn't like the Babadook when I first saw it. But after watching a couple of reviews on it, it let me see the movie in a different light and I rewatched it and enjoyed it more the second time.

Fantastic Four is another one that everyone hated and made out to be the worst movie in the history of cinema, and I didn't think it deserved that reputation after watching it in theaters. So... let's listen to some reviews and see what all the fuss is about!

There is something fun and fascinating to me knowing that someone has a totally different opinion on something than I do though. Like listening to John Campea talk about Man of Steel and call it a "masterpiece". I'm like "... did we watch the same movie???" lol. But hey, different strokes for different folks.

Generally speaking, I think a lot of the Marvel movies are simply ok, at best, but there are a few really good ones. My favorite happens to still be Winter Soldier. I think it's got some of the best action in it, best tension, and still fits humor in. After that, I'm not sure. Homecoming was also very good. But there has to be a balance. All of the Marvel movies up until this one have been humorous, but didn't give us non-stop punchlines from beginning to end. So I don't think the suggestion to go to DC is accurate. Marvel has been doing it fine this whole time. This movie just went overboard. DC, on the other hand has gone too far in the other direction with BvS (and to a lesser extent MoS). Wonder Woman was lighter (literally brighter and metaphorically so), but Wonder Woman also wasn't a great movie. It's just probably the better DC movie out so far. Justice League probably won't help DC's cinematic universe any.

[Lord Joeltion]

For example, I do not trust your opinion in any of this, based on what films you have declared to be good or bad in the past. Or rather, I can trust your opinion to be sufficiently anathema to mine that I would seriously consider watching a film you have declared to be bad, and would think twice of watching a film you have declared to be great. That is because for whatever reason, you enjoy aspects of a film I don't care about, and complain about the bits that I do like.

Grey Wolf
BUT I THOUGHT WE WERE BEST FRIEND-PALS! But I praise your memory for having a data profile on my tastes :smallredface:


But its uselss to determine if you should see it. Instead, find critics you feel have the same tastes as you, and listen to their actual argument. I respect MovieBob's reviews, for example. But he often downgrade a movie with points that i know i dont care about or i actually like.

You have to make and intelligent assessment based on the data provided. Not take raw input and reach a decision regardless of context.
And that is a position I respect, and possibly support to a point (altho I only check out critics AFTER I seen the movie. I'm baffled at people who utter such things like: "Meh, UnbiasedMetaSupporters rated it -234º k on X-Factor" as it was an actual argument. Or an argument with more weight than: "My tummy aches. Ergo, Back to The Future must suck!"


snip
Well, honestly I barely ever go to the actual theatre for similar issues (probably most here share the same issues). But still believe it's silly to base your desire to make an "investment" such as going to the theatre, on the totally biased opinion of strangers. No matter how you differ in opinions, a close friend is a better parameter in most cases; for the sole reason that you at least know where his/her bias comes from. Point being: most critics (barring some youtubers, perhaps) aren't the average man/woman; and certainly have their special quirks and all (being a cinema snob or a hater/fanboy the most typical ones).


I always do some research before buying a game (especially nowadays) or any other product I purchase, why would movies or TV be any different?
Uh, because a game is an "actual" investment? You can't seriously compare investing 2-6 hs tops to the 35 hs of min- potential hours a game usually involves. Or to compare the price of going to the theaters (10, 20 bucks per head?) to the 60-100 usd (sometimes even double that, with dlcs) that a top tier game cost to the average consumer. At least there is a difference in scale for me there.


snip
You are my new Best Friend-Pal :smallredface:

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No matter how you differ in opinions, a close friend is a better parameter in most cases; for the sole reason that you at least know where his/her bias comes from.
I don't pick my friends over sharing their taste in movies, though. My best friend and I share many things in common, but most definitely not passive entertainment such as tv or movies (here's a hint of what we do have in common: the first thing they ever asked me, upon first meeting me, was "Have you ever been to etymonline.com? You'll love it" And indeed I did).

More importantly, my friends don't get to go to see the film in advance. I hate spoilers, and therefore any film I watch, I watch on its opening weekend (babysitter allowing, the Saturday matinée). I must make a decision before then, and I prefer it to be an informed decision if at all possible.


Point being: most critics (barring some youtubers, perhaps) aren't the average man/woman
... but then, neither am I. Rotten Tomatoes collected the opinions of over 300 critics for e.g. the Avengers. Surely in that mass there must be someone whose biases and likes matches yours, due to the law of large numbers if nothing else. Heck, I triangulate based on three different reviewers, whose opinions I've come to understand, and I know how to distill and combine them to accurately gage if I will enjoy a film or not based on what they say about the film. Do I always agree? Heck, no, not even close. But at the very least, I know that when they praise the bits I care about, I will agree with them.

For example, Jeremy Jahns was relatively happy with the Justice League. But the reasons why he was happy with it leave me cold, and the bits he highlighted as problematic concern me.

Grey Wolf

[Anteros]

Yup. Its really sad that Marvel movie has had an established track record of entertaining and well crafted movies, familiar characters that we care about, and an overall feel of comedy/epic hybrid.

We just cannot approach Thor Ragnarok without some bias. Some of us only go see it BECAUSE of that bias and the previously mentioned solid track record.

Its almost as if a movie studio expects us to base expectations on previous movies when they create a massive multi-movie universe. After all, otherwise, what would be the point?

I was referring to the people who said they were going to see Justice League just so they could complain about it. Or who have already decided they don't like it before they see it.

[Cikomyr]

I was referring to the people who said they were going to see Justice League just so they could complain about it. Or who have already decided they don't like it before they see it.

Yup. Its really sad that DC movie has had an established track record of bland and badly crafted movies, unrecognizable characters that nobody care about, and an overall feel of half hearted gravitas

We just cannot approach Justice League without some bias. Some of us only not go see it BECAUSE of that bias and the previously mentioned terrible track record.

Its almost as if a movie studio expects us to base expectations on previous movies when they create a massive multi-movie universe. After all, otherwise, what would be the point?

[Razade]

I was referring to the people who said they were going to see Justice League just so they could complain about it. Or who have already decided they don't like it before they see it.

It works in reverse too. All the films made by DC except Wonder Woman have been universally given from a "meh" to a "skip it". So why would this film be anything less? It might be another WW but chances are higher that it'll be another Suicide Squad.

Or, put more amusingly


Yup. Its really sad that DC movie has had an established track record of bland and badly crafted movies, unrecognizable characters that nobody care about, and an overall feel of half hearted gravitas

We just cannot approach Justice League without some bias. Some of us only not go see it BECAUSE of that bias and the previously mentioned terrible track record.

Its almost as if a movie studio expects us to base expectations on previous movies when they create a massive multi-movie universe. After all, otherwise, what would be the point?

[Cikomyr]

For the record: yes. The entire orginal post was meant 100% as a setup for the post above. I take full responsibility.

[Aotrs Commander]

Uh, because a game is an "actual" investment? You can't seriously compare investing 2-6 hs tops to the 35 hs of min- potential hours a game usually involves. Or to compare the price of going to the theaters (10, 20 bucks per head?) to the 60-100 usd (sometimes even double that, with dlcs) that a top tier game cost to the average consumer. At least there is a difference in scale for me there.

I most certainly can and do. Movies and games require varying amounts of research is all - because I'll spend probably an hour or so checking up on a game if is not something I know I'll like automatically. (And even a few minutes if the game is a couple of quid or something.)

(Not that I buy "top-tier" games anyway; my general rules is now more than £35 or thereabouts on a game I'm not sure (after research) I'll like. IF, after that, it has earned its money's worth in time and enjoyment (like a Paradox grand strat), I will likely buy the expansions. But I've been burnt one too many times (yes, EA, by you specifically) to do otherwise.)

Wasted time is wasted time. My time is the single most precious resource I have, because its non-renewable. I refuse to waste time on something I don't enjoy - especially when I could use that 3-4 hours (by the time I've travelled there and back and sat through half an hour of adverts at least) to have been working.

So, if I'm not 100% convinced of anything, I'm not going to do or pay for it until I've done some research, whether it is a movie, a flash drive, a game or otherwise.

Let me put it this way - story spoilers aside I don't go in to do ANYTHING blind, in any walk of unlife.

[Anteros]

Yup. Its really sad that DC movie has had an established track record of bland and badly crafted movies, unrecognizable characters that nobody care about, and an overall feel of half hearted gravitas

We just cannot approach Justice League without some bias. Some of us only not go see it BECAUSE of that bias and the previously mentioned terrible track record.

Its almost as if a movie studio expects us to base expectations on previous movies when they create a massive multi-movie universe. After all, otherwise, what would be the point?

I understood your incredibly obvious point, but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I see now that I shouldn't have bothered.

It's entirely justifiable to have lessened expectations due to their track record. It's entirely ridiculous go to the movie for the sole reason to find things to complain about. These are not mutually exclusive. If you're that convinced that you won't like something, maybe just save your money instead of paying to see it just so you can complain? No one cares about the opinion of someone who just wants to complain for complaining's sake anyway. It's not honest criticism.

[Cikomyr]

I understood your incredibly obvious point, but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I see now that I shouldn't have bothered.

It's entirely justifiable to have lessened expectations due to their track record. It's entirely ridiculous go to the movie for the sole reason to find things to complain about. These are not mutually exclusive. If you're that convinced that you won't like something, maybe just save your money instead of paying to see it just so you can complain? No one cares about the opinion of someone who just wants to complain for complaining's sake anyway. It's not honest criticism.

I dont. I have better things to do with my money and time than spend it on something to hate it.

But then again... If someone wants to have a blast hating, and its their choice to, who are you to say they shouldn't do it? I dont even understand the attraction of hate-watching a movie, but I'll be damned if i decide for other people how they should find enjoyment in this crazy world.

Look, i get your point - a bit. But i still think you are being presomptuous in deciding whats a valid reason to see a movie. There are 4 kinds of people with opinions here:

- Those who have decided beforehand they hate the movie (a.k.a. the bulk of Star Trek Discovery complainers)
- Those who think the movie will probably not be a good experience
- Those who think the movie will probably be a good experience
- Those who have decided beforehand they loved the movie

1st and 4th categories are equally wrong to vest emotions before proper knowledge of the subject of these emotions. But what they do with these emotions is their business either way.

[ImperiousLeader]

So, finally saw Thor, and really liked it. I enjoyed the humour and energy. Some good character development too, and I really enjoyed Valkyrie.

[BWR]

The trailers did a good job of telling me what the movie would be: better than the last two (not a tough feat) but far too 'humorous'.
The humor, quite frankly, ruined the movie. If it had removed all jokes except the 'YES!/he's a friend from work' scene - which actually would make sense for someone to say in that situation - it would have been a good movie. As it was any attempt to make Thor imposing or serious was always undercut by bad humor, any emotional impact a scene might have had was immediately ruined by a joke. I literally did not laugh a single time during the movie and only cracked a pained/forced smile once. The action started off good but got worse as the movie progressed and the final fight was a bit of a mess and not exciting at all but at least it wasn't painful to watch. And there wasn't a ton of shaky-cam, so that's better than lots of Marvel's recent fare.
A friend of mine thought it was a good movie and thought the humor was great, so different strokes.

[Darth Ultron]

I saw the movie....


Overall it was a good enough movie....not great, but good.

The humor was a bit much through the whole movie. It makes the movie feel a bit too light and funny as Hela, the Goddess of Death, is slaughtering people. The movie should have had a bit more darker tone.

It's a Sci-Fi movie, and does have a nice 80's vibe...but those are good things. After all, at least a third of the Thor stories are Sci-Fi

Sutur is very wasted. As the Primordial Fire Demon, he is mostly played off as a joke, then a Monster Ex Macina.

Loki is very much weakened in this movie to little more then comedy, or Thor's side kick. It would have been nice to see him fight and be tough like he was in the other movies.

Things That Don't Make Sense

*Wonder why they changed Sutur's magic item? Twilight, the Sheath Less Sword, would have been much better then the 'crown'.

*The pacing is a bit off as Thor fights Sutur and then discovers Loki playing Odin and then they find Odin all very fast....like they just want to skip to Skarr.

*The Dr. Strange Timeline might be a bit off. Like Steven learns magic After The Avengers/The Battle of New York...so he becomes the Master of the Magic Arts in like a couple years?

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.

*Guess Dr. Strange just casts a ''Detect Odin'' spell?

*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.

*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.

*And Loki has been on Sakaar for a while before Thor....and has never seen or heard of the Champion that has been there two years? Like he missed the thousands of Hulk Fans in the streets?

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?

*Unlike all other films, The Hulk here can talk and have a conversation....at least on the level of a child. This is new. Yet Thor never even mentions it.

*Thor sure becomes all sneaky, crafty and stealthy all of a sudden to escape.

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?

*I guess Valkyrie control device can deactivate every Slave Item on the planet?

*Thor flies the Grandmaster's ship? Thor? He is not the pilot type...

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?

*And Thor's plan is to...um...just attack Hela?

*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?

*Thor's new lightning power is cool...but it must not be so great as it only knocks Hela down...

*And Sutur becomes more powerful then Hela why exactly...other then they needed an ending?

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?

*The space ship sure has a lot of room for all the escaped gladiators and lots of Asguardians.

*Skurge hides in a cloak and gets on the space ship......then pulls two M-16's out of nowhere? It's not like he was wearing them the whole movie. Now, granted this is taken exactly right out of the comics...but still...

*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.

[Anteros]

I dont. I have better things to do with my money and time than spend it on something to hate it.

But then again... If someone wants to have a blast hating, and its their choice to, who are you to say they shouldn't do it? I dont even understand the attraction of hate-watching a movie, but I'll be damned if i decide for other people how they should find enjoyment in this crazy world.

Look, i get your point - a bit. But i still think you are being presomptuous in deciding whats a valid reason to see a movie. There are 4 kinds of people with opinions here:

- Those who have decided beforehand they hate the movie (a.k.a. the bulk of Star Trek Discovery complainers)
- Those who think the movie will probably not be a good experience
- Those who think the movie will probably be a good experience
- Those who have decided beforehand they loved the movie

1st and 4th categories are equally wrong to vest emotions before proper knowledge of the subject of these emotions. But what they do with these emotions is their business either way.

Ok, by your own logic we can't judge other people's opinions...so who are you to judge mine then? You don't even apply your own flawed logic consistently.

[Cikomyr]

Ok, by your own logic we can't judge other people's opinions...so who are you to judge mine then? You don't even apply your own flawed logic consistently.

Dude. Dont pull off the nonesensical "if you are so tolerant, why dont you tolerate my intolerance?"

Respecting other people's opinion is conditional to a reciprocity. The moment someone breaks that reciprocity, there is no reason to keep the respect.

Same think about tolerance.

[Erys]

I saw the movie....


Overall it was a good enough movie....not great, but good.

The humor was a bit much through the whole movie. It makes the movie feel a bit too light and funny as Hela, the Goddess of Death, is slaughtering people. The movie should have had a bit more darker tone.

It's a Sci-Fi movie, and does have a nice 80's vibe...but those are good things. After all, at least a third of the Thor stories are Sci-Fi

Sutur is very wasted. As the Primordial Fire Demon, he is mostly played off as a joke, then a Monster Ex Macina.

Loki is very much weakened in this movie to little more then comedy, or Thor's side kick. It would have been nice to see him fight and be tough like he was in the other movies.

Things That Don't Make Sense

*Wonder why they changed Sutur's magic item? Twilight, the Sheath Less Sword, would have been much better then the 'crown'.

*The pacing is a bit off as Thor fights Sutur and then discovers Loki playing Odin and then they find Odin all very fast....like they just want to skip to Skarr.

*The Dr. Strange Timeline might be a bit off. Like Steven learns magic After The Avengers/The Battle of New York...so he becomes the Master of the Magic Arts in like a couple years?

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.

*Guess Dr. Strange just casts a ''Detect Odin'' spell?

*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.

*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.

*And Loki has been on Sakaar for a while before Thor....and has never seen or heard of the Champion that has been there two years? Like he missed the thousands of Hulk Fans in the streets?

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?

*Unlike all other films, The Hulk here can talk and have a conversation....at least on the level of a child. This is new. Yet Thor never even mentions it.

*Thor sure becomes all sneaky, crafty and stealthy all of a sudden to escape.

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?

*I guess Valkyrie control device can deactivate every Slave Item on the planet?

*Thor flies the Grandmaster's ship? Thor? He is not the pilot type...

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?

*And Thor's plan is to...um...just attack Hela?

*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?

*Thor's new lightning power is cool...but it must not be so great as it only knocks Hela down...

*And Sutur becomes more powerful then Hela why exactly...other then they needed an ending?

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?

*The space ship sure has a lot of room for all the escaped gladiators and lots of Asguardians.

*Skurge hides in a cloak and gets on the space ship......then pulls two M-16's out of nowhere? It's not like he was wearing them the whole movie. Now, granted this is taken exactly right out of the comics...but still...

*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.



Much of that is actually covered in the movie.

For example:


*Skurge hides in a cloak and gets on the space ship......then pulls two M-16's out of nowhere? It's not like he was wearing them the whole movie. Now, granted this is taken exactly right out of the comics...but still...
His very first scene, before he opens the gate for Thor at the beginning of the movie, he is showing off both guns to a pair of ladies. He even names them.

[Anteros]

Dude. Dont pull off the nonesensical "if you are so tolerant, why dont you tolerate my intolerance?"

Respecting other people's opinion is conditional to a reciprocity. The moment someone breaks that reciprocity, there is no reason to keep the respect.

Same think about tolerance.

I'm sorry but what? You've moved the goal posts so far now that I legitimately don't even know what you're trying to say anymore.

I'm intolerant now because I don't think you should complain about things just for the sake of complaining? Is that actually what you're trying to say?

You know what? Fine. I don't think people should complain about things other people like for fun. It only serves to ruin the enjoyment of the people who actually like what you're talking about.

If you have legitimate complaints about something then fine. If you're trying to derail others conversations with negativity just because you enjoy being negative? Then you're a jerk. If that makes me intolerant then so be it.

[The Troubadour]

Much of that is actually covered in the movie.

For example:

His very first scene, before he opens the gate for Thor at the beginning of the movie, he is showing off both guns to a pair of ladies. He even names them.

Yeah, but there's a difference between owning an object and carrying it around all the time, particularly one that is quite large and cumbersome and wasn't seen in any of the many scenes between the beginning and the end of the movie.

[Dragonexx]

He was under a heavy cloak that made him look hunchbacked, presumably so nobody would recognize him. The hunch came from the guns.

[GloatingSwine]

I saw the movie....



Things That Don't Make Sense

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.

Asgard's magic appears to be quite different to Strange's, Thor is also not used to being rapidly teleported around without warning.

*Guess Dr. Strange just casts a ''Detect Odin'' spell?

The implication is that he already knows where Odin is. He has, after all, been tracking certain mystical individuals

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?

She's Odin's firstborn, and she's also the one he empowered as a weapon of conquest

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?

They say in the film that Sakaar naturally collect junk that falls out of space portals. It's actually a major plot element.

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.

Finding people who fall into the junk and might be good contenders is her actual job. Why do you think this is "unbelievable".

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.

It's not a surprise for anyone in the audience, it's showmanship. I mean have you never seen a boxing match, or especially a pro wrestling match. It's a big dramatic entrance for the sake of the show.

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?

Because he's Thor, not Storm. She's an X-Man. Though she did use Mjolnir once.

*Thor sure becomes all sneaky, crafty and stealthy all of a sudden to escape.

And he even specifically says that he's been learning.

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....

[b]Why do you think he can't fly a quinjet? If Hulk can do it it can't be that hard. Also he doesn't need to get into space, just to a portal. The movie even says so

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?

Hela isn't "all powerful", she's the goddess of death. She's a conqueror not an engineer.

*Thor flies the Grandmaster's ship? Thor? He is not the pilot type...

[b]Again, why would you assume he can't do so?

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?

Yes, the movie said that was going to happen before they even started trying.

*And Thor's plan is to...um...just attack Hela?

Yes, if you hadn't noticed yet Thor does like to solve problems by attacking them.

*And Sutur becomes more powerful then Hela why exactly...other then they needed an ending?

Because like he said right at the beginning of the movie, when his crown was united with the eternal flame he would become the size of a mountain and crush Asgard

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?

Surtur is blowing up Asgard. Hela wanted to keep it?

*The space ship sure has a lot of room for all the escaped gladiators and lots of Asguardians.

Yes, you'll notice it was quite big.




It's almost like you didn't actually pay attention.

[The Troubadour]

He was under a heavy cloak that made him look hunchbacked, presumably so nobody would recognize him. The hunch came from the guns.

True, but until he tried to disguise himself, he was acting as Hela's executioner in full view of the audience and the guns were nowhere to be seen. It's perfectly in-character for movie!Skurge to take his guns with him before escaping, but when did he have the time to go back for them in the first place?

[Cikomyr]

True, but until he tried to disguise himself, he was acting as Hela's executioner in full view of the audience and the guns were nowhere to be seen. It's perfectly in-character for movie!Skurge to take his guns with him before escaping, but when did he have the time to go back for them in the first place?

Same extradimensional space Hela keeps her knifes.

Asgard tech is Asgard tech?

[Darth Ultron]

Much of that is actually covered in the movie.


Ok, but:


For the whole middle of the movie Skurge is walking about with no M-16's....in fact he has a axe. Then he switches back sides tosses away the axe, gets a cloak and does the Awesome Thor Hide...and gets on the Ark spaceship.

Then, out of nowhere pulls out two M-16?

[Cikomyr]

Asgard extradimensional storage space.

Again.

[Androgeus]

True, but until he tried to disguise himself, he was acting as Hela's executioner in full view of the audience and the guns were nowhere to be seen. It's perfectly in-character for movie!Skurge to take his guns with him before escaping, but when did he have the time to go back for them in the first place?

I has been like a month since I saw the film, but doesn't he have them on his back when they march on the bridge?

[The Troubadour]

I has been like a month since I saw the film, but doesn't he have them on his back when they march on the bridge?

I don't think he did, but I may be mistaken?


Same extradimensional space Hela keeps her knifes.

Asgard tech is Asgard tech?

I figured those were her creations.

[Douglas]

I figured those were her creations.
Yeah, my impression was that, just like Thor has the personal ability to create lightning, Hela has the personal ability to create weapons. And to control their initial speed and direction of movement.

She's like a machine gun with infinite ammunition that shoots swords instead of bullets.

[lord_khaine]

AWESOME!!!

Ahem.. yeah.. just gotten back 5 min ago from watching the movie. Worth every single krone i spend on it. Only partial disapointment were the Grandmaster.

Besides that so much awesome acting. Thor is hilarious. Loki is Loki.

[Lord Joeltion]

I don't pick my friends over sharing their taste in movies, though. My best friend and I share many things in common, but most definitely not passive entertainment such as tv or movies (here's a hint of what we do have in common: the first thing they ever asked me, upon first meeting me, was "Have you ever been to etymonline.com? You'll love it" And indeed I did).
I think you misunderstood my point. I never said how you should pick/deal with your friends. I just said that the opinion of a friend could gather a more easily decpherable data to translate it's value to your own paramenters (aka: useful information) than whatever the "consensus" of a specific source appears to be (like rotten). Even if you think you know a critic very well, and you know about his preferences, most of the time you aren't so much sure about WHY he likes a movie more than the others (and I mean specifically on personal level).

On the other hand, you know the history of your friend, his/her past, prefered food and whatever. All this knowledge impacts on his tastes on movies, hence you can deduce why he actually likes movie A but not movie B, possibly fabricating for you a better perspective of how the movie in question is, before actually having seen it yourself. Or maybe I am just overly analytic and enjoy this little mindgames. My point wasn't really whether you should do that to your friends, or even if you could; my point is that such a study of the available data is impossible when you are talking about Doug Walker's preferences or some anonymous scores on a page. Art isn't democratic, so "consensus" is a lousy parameter to make assumptions beforehand, specially when available data is scarce (ie: when a movie hasn't been out for some days).


More importantly, my friends don't get to go to see the film in advance. I hate spoilers, and therefore any film I watch, I watch on its opening weekend (babysitter allowing, the Saturday matinée). I must make a decision before then, and I prefer it to be an informed decision if at all possible.
Oh, I have a similar policy. I just tend to also be wary of the critics or "popular receptions" too because I am that much skeptic.


... but then, neither am I. Rotten Tomatoes collected the opinions of over 300 critics for e.g. the Avengers. Surely in that mass there must be someone whose biases and likes matches yours, due to the law of large numbers if nothing else. Heck, I triangulate based on three different reviewers, whose opinions I've come to understand, and I know how to distill and combine them to accurately gage if I will enjoy a film or not based on what they say about the film. Do I always agree? Heck, no, not even close. But at the very least, I know that when they praise the bits I care about, I will agree with them.
I question how much "not average" you are. For me, being "not average" is somebody whose knowledge and experience from a special field is so specialized that it completely alienates him from the general consensus. It happens to me with music: It's not that I don't like popular music, it's that I like a very specific kind of music for very specific reasons (be it popular or not) so the general parameters on why people like it or not, generally don't apply to me. It applies to most forms of art, I think. That is what I call "not average taste". YOu may have it, then again not. My point was that certain kind of critics don't share such average parameters, for the sole reason they are "critics" and as such, experience art in a different way.

And, since you brought Rotten... Just take a look at this (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/thor_ragnarok_2017/), and then look at this one other (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/justice_league_2017/). See how utterly different the "Tomatometers" are (generated by "critics" or something like that) despite how practically equal the audience ratings are between the two movies? I never meant "the scores are nonsense period". I said they were questionable parameters, at best.

I agree with the audience, in the sense that JL and Thor were equally enjoyable, with similar amount of flaws, yet in very different aspects. But the critics think one is PURE GOLD and the other is PURE GARBAGE. We could debate why the eye of a critic is so different from the "real consensus"; but that's beside the point. My point is that a person shouldn't give a critic's opinion more value than it really has (which is, as a rule of thumb, too litttle for the average guy/gal). Yet some people still treat scores and critiques as the Holy Bible and you can see that much in the way they express their "opinions". It's not that it is a bad behaviour per se; but it is still a biased opinion. And I value much more a biased opinion when it really originated from the people that is actually supporting it. It's like loving Marvel/DC because they are Marvel/DC and everything else is garbage. I find such a mindset something worth no more than a sarcastic laugh.


For example, Jeremy Jahns was relatively happy with the Justice League. But the reasons why he was happy with it leave me cold, and the bits he highlighted as problematic concern me.
It happens to me a lot with YT critics. As a rule of thumb, I tend to agree on 90% of their points, but then there is THAT one movie they happen to hate/love and I beg to differ. Similar tastes don't always think alike and that's where the exceptions come from, IMO.


So, if I'm not 100% convinced of anything, I'm not going to do or pay for it until I've done some research, whether it is a movie, a flash drive, a game or otherwise.

Let me put it this way - story spoilers aside I don't go in to do ANYTHING blind, in any walk of unlife.
But do you agree the scale is really different, right? That was my point. Buying a game is a greater investment, so being more wary to invest only makes sense. You also get more fun from games than movies, for the simple reason the latter is a more ephymereal distraction. A movie is more worth the risk, for the same reason of scale. But again, it's up to you.

I never claimed going blindly about life is the right thing to do. I just think it's silly to overvalue the parameters given, before waiting an appropiate time when more useful data is available. I was referring to the claims of "ppl already says it sucks before it's release, so I SHALL NEVER WATCH IT EVER". There is a lot of people like that. Just go to any other thread, on any topic/movie/series, and they are all over the place with the hate-rethoric before the product was actually released and the masses have formed an actual informed opinion about it. That strikes me quite funny at best, kind of silly at worst.


I saw the movie....


Things That Don't Make Sense


*The Dr. Strange Timeline might be a bit off. Like Steven learns magic After The Avengers/The Battle of New York...so he becomes the Master of the Magic Arts in like a couple years?
A wizard did it.


*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.
It's sufficiently advanced technology, you silly. Also, they don't have "wizards" like that. Just the OdinForce. And illusionists. And Thunder-benders (?).


*Guess Dr. Strange just casts a ''Detect Odin'' spell?
It was a pointless plot device for a funny cameo. 50/50 whether it was worth or not, really.


*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.
Well, she is in fact the daughter of Loki (yeah, also in the comics). I think firstborn of Odin was fine.


*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?
She is firstborn. And probably much much much much much much much olden than Loki and Thor.


*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.
Yeah... that IS an issue in most Marvel movies. I grant you that.


*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.
A... wizard?


*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.
They... do. Did you miss all the banners (no pun) and apparel with his face on the crowd???


*And Loki has been on Sakaar for a while before Thor....and has never seen or heard of the Champion that has been there two years? Like he missed the thousands of Hulk Fans in the streets?
Watch the movie again. Loki spent just some days there. We don't know how often the matches are celebrated.


*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?
Because Marvel sucks. And for the Raiden reference :smalltongue:


*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....
Why not? Anyone can fly a quinjet. And they have some space autonomy.


*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?
Stop questioning the McGuffin!


*I guess Valkyrie control device can deactivate every Slave Item on the planet?
Stop questioning the McGuffin! :smalltongue:


*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?
They took the Highway to Asgard. And yeah, it was dumb. It was that, or another 30 min of stupid jokes, so leave it just like that...


*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?
Because she is a... QUEEEEEENNN, NOT DARK BUT BEAUTIFUL AND TERRIBLE AS THE DAAAAAAAWWNNN!!


*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?
He ate all the cookies.


*Skurge hides in a cloak and gets on the space ship......then pulls two M-16's out of nowhere? It's not like he was wearing them the whole movie. Now, granted this is taken exactly right out of the comics...but still...
Fan service pocket-space :smalltongue:


*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.
I already ranted about that. It was stupid from the writers, but it's not like they had a choice. At least they didn't get the chance to actually kill her.

[Aotrs Commander]

I never claimed going blindly about life is the right thing to do. I just think it's silly to overvalue the parameters given, before waiting an appropiate time when more useful data is available. I was referring to the claims of "ppl already says it sucks before it's release, so I SHALL NEVER WATCH IT EVER". There is a lot of people like that. Just go to any other thread, on any topic/movie/series, and they are all over the place with the hate-rethoric before the product was actually released and the masses have formed an actual informed opinion about it. That strikes me quite funny at best, kind of silly at worst.

On the one hand, yes, people do that.

On the other hand, at the same time it is entirely possible to make a judgement on something without having experienced it. It was very clear from the trailer that Fan4stick was going to be grade-A fecal matter, and I was not remotely interested in seeing it (and that was borne out by later opinions of the poor souls who did).



And... Given that I have never (mercifully) been in a position where I have been to a movie I have hated or even thought was a waste of my time at the cinema, I must be doing something right.

[Velaryon]

I saw the movie....


Sutur is very wasted. As the Primordial Fire Demon, he is mostly played off as a joke, then a Monster Ex Macina.
Surtr, and he's a fire giant. Though in this context, I'm not sure that's a meaningful difference.

Loki is very much weakened in this movie to little more then comedy, or Thor's side kick. It would have been nice to see him fight and be tough like he was in the other movies.
I put this down to a combination of things. The shift in tone is partially because the first two Thor movies are among the least successful of the MCU, and partly to freshen up the characters for Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston. I agree Loki could have been portrayed stronger without losing his comedic value, though.

*The pacing is a bit off as Thor fights Sutur and then discovers Loki playing Odin and then they find Odin all very fast....like they just want to skip to Skarr.
They're trying to do a whole lot in a relatively short amount of time. The movie is 130 minutes as is, so they couldn't pad this out too much longer than they did.

*Thor seems a bit bewildered by Dr. Strange's magic....but Thor is from Asgard, a place full of magic.
While there's definitely some magic in Asgard, on the whole it seems to be more super-advanced technology than magic, and even then there isn't the breadth of magical ability that we see Dr. Strange display even in his brief scene. Plus Thor also seems astonished that humans are wielding this kind of power.

*Hela as a child of Odin? That is a bit of a difference. Though I think Odin's sister would have been better.
In actual Norse mythology, she's the daughter of Loki. If they're going to change that, seems to me "Odin's eldest child" is no better or worse than "Odin's sister."

*Why IS Hela so all powerful? Just as she is a daughter of Odin? Like she catches Mjolnir and destroys it...but how?
She's clearly not all powerful, but is extraordinarily powerful. The film establishes that she draws her power from Asgard itself, which evidently is why she is so much stronger than everyone else and why she gets stronger with time.

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?
The Bifrost is not exactly like a Star Trek-style transporter, even if it kind of looks that way. Rather than disappearing and reappearing without covering the distance in between, it seems to just create a corridor and then transport people through it at extreme speeds. When Thor fell through, he flew off in whatever direction his momentum carried him, and ended up on the junk planet by happenstance.

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.
YMMV on how believable it is, but it does seem to be coincidence that he lands on the planet where she is able to find him.

*The Shocking Slave Item sure seems to take down Thor really fast. As powerful as Thor is, you'd expect him to have a bit more resistance. And if she did use the anti god slave item, she could have said so.
Agreed. An electric shock in particular is something I would expect the god of thunder to be highly resistant if not outright immune to. But it was being played for laughs, and accomplishes that well enough even if it does seem a bit unrealistic.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.
Last we saw in Age of Ultron, Hulk's quinjet was flying away and we had no idea where it was going. I don't remember what this film showed us in terms of what happened to it, but presumably it encountered an unexpected portal and/or Hulk lost control. I wouldn't expect Hulk to be a particularly good pilot.

*How and Why is the Grandmasters Champion so secret and unknown as The Hulk? Sure it's just a ''surprise'' for..um...no one in the audience as we have all seen the trailers and such, but everyone on Sakaar should know who he is.
I didn't get the impression that it was a surprise to anyone but Thor and Loki.

*Thor's new lightning powers are nice....but why does he not get more ''storm'' powers?
He's the god of thunder, remember, so in theory these powers have been his all along, but he has always relied primarily on his hammer before and never stretched these powers to their fullest. What other "storm" powers would you want him to have, exactly?

*Unlike all other films, The Hulk here can talk and have a conversation....at least on the level of a child. This is new. Yet Thor never even mentions it.
As far as we know, this is the first time Hulk has been in control for this length of time, especially in non-combat situations where he's not purely reacting to things that make him angry. It makes sense that he displays more linguistic capability than we've seen before. It is perhaps a bit weird that Thor doesn't blink an eye at this, but Thor's got a lot going on, after all.

*Thor sure becomes all sneaky, crafty and stealthy all of a sudden to escape.
He's been disarmed of his primary tool and rendered in a situation where brute force doesn't work. It's definitely not his forte, but he's had plenty of experience over the years to the point where he can at least try to think "How would Loki get out of this?"

*Why does Thor run over to the quinjet? He can't fly a quinjet, right? He was never on Earth long enough to take a flight training course...and likely never would anyway. And quinjet's are not space ships....
He goes for the vehicle he has some familiarity with first. As for how it got there, we don't know whether he can portal-hop back to Asgard without needing to travel through space. At the very least, it should be able to get him to Earth since Hulk got here.

*Hela is all powerful...but still needs the special sword to turn on the Rainbow Beam? She can't make her own key?
She isn't all powerful. She's shown to be the most powerful (at least now that Odin's gone), but she is not omnipotent. She's a goddess of death, so why would that include making a new key to the Bifrost?

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?
I guess the Quinjet could have handled it after all, had it been in better repair anyway.

*And Thor's plan is to...um...just attack Hela?
He's gotten a bit cleverer over the years, but he's no genius.

*Hela gets more power by just being in Asguard? Why?
We're told early on that she draws her power from Asgard itself. I don't know why that is, but how much would it really add to explain just how she draws her strength from Asgard?

*Thor's new lightning power is cool...but it must not be so great as it only knocks Hela down...
She's still the most powerful Asgardian, with homefield advantage since she's drawing power from the land itself.

*And Sutur becomes more powerful then Hela why exactly...other then they needed an ending?
Prophecy junk, mostly.

*And why does Hela even attack and fight Sutur?
He's destroying the place she has claimed for herself.

*The space ship sure has a lot of room for all the escaped gladiators and lots of Asguardians.
It was a pretty darn big ship.

*Thor never even mentions all of his dead friends...or the MIA Sif.
It would have been nice, but I suspect his lack of reaction to the death of the Warriors Three is due to the film already being pretty long. Sif's absence is because of scheduling conflicts with the actress I believe, so they probably just brushed that under the rug in case they want to use her again later.



Gave my responses in bold within the quote, and deleted the ones I didn't have anything to say about.

[theNater]

Wanted to go over a few of these, because there's some theme work that I think is being glossed over.

*So when Thor is tossed out of the Rainbow Beam.....does Hela drop him on the junkpile or does he randomly go there somehow?

*Guess it is just pure unbelievable coincidence that Valkyrie, the Asgardian, just happens to be the one that finds Thor in the junkpile.

*So....how did the quinjet the Hulk was in...um...fall through a portal and land on Sakaar.

*And they...somehow....teleport right to Asguard?
Sakaar is a junk pile because it's surrounded by portals through which junk regularly falls. Indeed, there are so many portals that when Thor gets in contact with Heimdall, he has to ask which of the many portals will get him back to Asgard fastest. Heimdall tells him to use the biggest one, which we later learn is called the Devil's Anus. Flying through that portal does indeed put them very near Asgard; directly below it. They appear to be travelling upward(whatever that means in this space context) on the Bifrost when Hela kicks them out, so it's not super surprising that they would fall "down" into that portal, as would any detritus that gets dropped off of Asgard, or goes over the waterfalls around its edge.

Sakaar is a crappy place because it is constantly being crapped on by other places, with Asgard being the single largest offender. The name "Devil's Anus" isn't just a joke; it's another example of how Asgard is keeping itself strong and beautiful at the expense of other realms.

[Iruka]

Saw the movie yesterday. Complete nonsense. I loved it.

[Frozen_Feet]

Saw the movie yesterday. Complete nonsense. I loved it.

Someone gets it. :biggrin:

It was about time they realized Space Vikings are an inherently funny concept. All that gold in Asgard? Comedy gold. :smallamused:

[GloatingSwine]

Also, making Loki the closest thing the film has to a Straight Man was great.

[lord_khaine]

Also, making Loki the closest thing the film has to a Straight Man was great.

Loki was awesome. The actor did an amazing job showing off emotional depth. Did like all the times Loki actually seemed conflicted.

[The Glyphstone]

I actually enjoyed Thor's character growth in that he finally figured out his brother has Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, and planned ahead for it.

[The Troubadour]

That part was good. Loki outgrowing his constant need to backstab Thor was also well-done.

[Anteros]

That part was good. Loki outgrowing his constant need to backstab Thor was also well-done.

Does he though? I'm assuming the reason Thanos shows up in the post credits scene is related to Loki stopping to look at the Tesseract in an earlier scene. I'd say the backstabbing hasn't stopped at all.

[GloatingSwine]

Does he though? I'm assuming the reason Thanos shows up in the post credits scene is related to Loki stopping to look at the Tesseract in an earlier scene. I'd say the backstabbing hasn't stopped at all.

Loki almost certainly pocketed the Tesseract without telling anyone because who knows when he might need it, but I doubt he's been on the blower to Thanos to tell him to come and pick it up.

[Cikomyr]

Thor learning and anticipating his brother's backstabbing disorder and Loki learning to live past it is strangely reminiscent of people getting out of abusive relationship/learn to grow past the abusive behavior; on both parts.

The abuser realising how much he is doing wrong to his beloved with his behavior, and learns to stop. Or at least, wants to learn.

[Cikomyr]

By the way, anyone here rewatched Thor 1 recently?

Odin's decision to banish Thor for his warmongering lust suddenly makes a lot more sense once you put it in perspective of Hela's banishment, and the reasons behind it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yeah, that was a nice callback. Further proof that Odin sucks as a father, though. All three of the kids he's raised are thoroughly messed up, at least at the start.

Wonder who we're getting next time. Tyr? Balder? Idunn might make a nice switch from another combat badass.

[Cikomyr]

Yeah, that was a nice callback. Further proof that Odin sucks as a father, though. All three of the kids he's raised are thoroughly messed up, at least at the start.

Wonder who we're getting next time. Tyr? Balder? Idunn might make a nice switch from another combat badass.

Any of them part of the Marvel canon?

New Asgardian adventures might be cool. It's sad, but Thor has reached the natural end of his Journey that he set out in the original Thor.

He has grown into the King his father wished him to be; maybe not as wise as Odin, but a more moral one. Thor's story is over.

That doesnt mean he shouldn't make lots of future movie appearances. Just like Iron Man's completed journey in Iron Man 3, Stark has grown into an antagonist and a mentor figure into other moves. I feel seeing these previous protagonists pick up new roles to be great.

Maybe a Loki movie? It would be nice to have the first Marvel Antihero movie.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Any of them part of the Marvel canon?

If you mean comics, oh heck yes. Not sure about the MCU.

Also, the entire Greco-Roman pantheon exists in Marvel comics because of Hercules. And several members of the Egyptian and Mesopotamian pantheons, likewise.

They can be making movies on the Deific-Cosmic side of the MCU for years.

[GrayDeath]

Maybe a Loki movie? It would be nice to have the first Marvel Antihero movie.

While that would most certainly rock, I dont think they are going to do it.

Also at this moment in time, Loki is less Anti and more Prota than ... just about ever, so ... bad timing i guess?

[Talakeal]

Just saw the movie again, Skurge definetly had the assault rifles slung over his shoulders for the bridge sequence before getting on the transport.

There are a couple of shots where they seem to dissapear, but these are very brief and likely the same type of minor continuity errors that every film contains.

[Eldan]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

[Kato]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

Kind of.. Iirc he's more associated with the enchantress than Hel but he is a kind of prominent guy.. But yeah, he was pretty pointless in the movie.

[Lord Joeltion]

Kind of.. Iirc he's more associated with the enchantress than Hel but he is a kind of prominent guy.. But yeah, he was pretty pointless in the movie.

He was also downplayed a lot. It's as if it was the Smurfs version of The Executioner. Not to say he isn't the only downplayed character from the comics in a MCU movie, but still

[Dienekes]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

He’s kind of Thor’s version of Kraven the Hunter. A C-list villain that got one of the most well loved comics of their respective franchises that gave them a huge fan following.

Skurge in the movie is just a pale shadow. But that’s kind of expected. To get his arc right would have required at least an additional movie of set up. Maybe if he and Enchantress were the villains of Thor 2. But as it was, they managed to show his death facing the hordes of Hela while having none of the emotional depth of the Last Stand of Gjallerbru.

[Mikemical]

After seeing the movie, I can say it's a very good superhero comedy. Reminds me of Kickass.

I felt the tone of the movie was way too light, considering that it was supposed to deal with something as grave as the destruction of Asgard, and the buildup to it in Thor: The Dark World and Age of Ultron made it feel as if it would be super gritty, The Dark Knight-like, instead of Guardians of the Galaxy 1.5.

It was a good movie, and I gotta give Waititi some props from making it so big, I just didn't expect we would be having jokes about Hulk's big green third leg.

[GloatingSwine]

So, I assume Skurge is important in the comics for something? That's the only explanation I have for why people are talking about him. He seemed entirely pointless in the movie for anything other than "Someone for Hel to explain things to".

Skurge was never really all that important, but he had a cool death back when that meant something.

[lord_khaine]

It was a good movie, and I gotta give Waititi some props from making it so big, I just didn't expect we would be having jokes about Hulk's big green third leg.

There is no such thing as a bad time for that :smalltongue:

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by GloatingSwine
Loki almost certainly pocketed the Tesseract without telling anyone because who knows when he might need it….

Yup, confirmed by the Infinity War teaser.

[Anteros]

Well, we know from the trailer that Loki has the Tessathingy, Darkseid (sorry, Thanos) shows up at the end of Thor, then Thanos has the space stone later in the movie, so he must get it from Loki somehow.

So either Thanos is going to force Loki to hand it over, or Loki has betrayed Thor yet again.

[Talakeal]

I have a feeling that Loki will play the role that Mephisto did in the original Infinity Gauntlet comic, seeming to betray the heroes and serving as Thanos' advisor / toadie but subtley manipulating him into making bad tactical decisions that allow the heroes the possibility of victory.

[lord_khaine]

Well, we know from the trailer that Loki has the Tessathingy, Darkseid (sorry, Thanos) shows up at the end of Thor, then Thanos has the space stone later in the movie, so he must get it from Loki somehow.

So either Thanos is going to force Loki to hand it over, or Loki has betrayed Thor yet again.

Whats more likely is that both Thor and Loki were caught by Thanatos.
The point that was eventually driven home by Ragnarok, and by a superb performance from Loki's actor, is that deep down, Loki really does care about Thor. Even if it rarely shows.

And from the next GofG movie it seems that Thor is held captive but resqued by the guardians. So it seems possible that having Thor as hostage is all the leverage Thanatos need to make Loki attack a place he does not really care about at all.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thanos. Thanatos is a different guy, probably tied up in the Hulk rights.

[GloatingSwine]

Whats more likely is that both Thor and Loki were caught by Thanatos.
The point that was eventually driven home by Ragnarok, and by a superb performance from Loki's actor, is that deep down, Loki really does care about Thor. Even if it rarely shows.

And from the next GofG movie it seems that Thor is held captive but resqued by the guardians. So it seems possible that having Thor as hostage is all the leverage Thanatos need to make Loki attack a place he does not really care about at all.

I don't think Thor is being held captive, I think he's trying to hold his spaceship together by hand.....

[Jallorn]

Having finally seen the movie, I desire to share my first impressions:

While I appreciated the nod to Planet Hulk, I was really rather disappointed by Korg, he just... While I recognized the cleverness in most of his jokes, they were also pretty much all so tonally dissonant with the film that they just felt insulting to the story that was actually happening.

Was expecting the moment where the crowd cheers for Thor to anger Hulk and turn him into a rampage against the audience. Not exactly disappointed, since instead we got more of Hulk being... better adjusted and self-aware?

Rather irritated at the Gamemaster for cheating. Both the character himself, and the writers.

Everything with Loki was gold. Everything. I especially enjoyed many of the little moments, like when Thor tells the tale of Loki stabbing him when they were eight, and Loki has this little smile at his own fun. If he finishes the MCU run as a good guy, or at least a mostly-okay guy, I would be pretty happy with that.

I actually really liked Skirge's arc, and I'm rather sad he died, though I suppose there wouldn't really be much more story that they would have space to tell about him.

Overall, I think this is a movie I would have utterly loved as a child, but I still feel like the whole Asgardian storyline, even into this movie, has suffered from the studio's unwillingness to really commit to the high fantasy and magic that it needed. The first movie tried too hard to justify it as, "Like science," and the second tried to be too dark and serious. This one goes to the other extreme, which is for the better, but they still seem uncomfortable with the high fantasy and can't really leave it alone. I agree with others when they say that a lot of the comedy here has been in potentia for a while, but too often it distracts or detracts from the main line of the story. I'd prefer it closer to Buffy or Firefly style (since I think it's fair to say that Joss Whedon has been an enormous influence on this kind of comedy) where the stakes and the gravity aren't really reduced by the laughter. Or where you can have moments like Wash's death, a moment that is simultaneously horrifying and funny (in a dark, horrifying way... I swear I'm not a psychopath) right on the tails of triumph.

Also, thoughts regarding the post-credits scene: Loki totally grabbed the tesseract, right? And (barring Heimdall having one of the stones for his eyes) that's why Thanos is there, right?

[JadedDM]

Also, thoughts regarding the post-credits scene: Loki totally grabbed the tesseract, right? And (barring Heimdall having one of the stones for his eyes) that's why Thanos is there, right?

Have you seen the trailer for Age of Ultron yet? It shows Loki handing over the Tesseract, so I feel that pretty much confirms it.

[Douglas]

Have you seen the trailer for Age of Ultron yet? It shows Loki handing over the Tesseract, so I feel that pretty much confirms it.
Infinity War, not Age of Ultron, and I don't recall it showing him actually handing it over, just holding it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

True, but we know from shots of Thanos that he has the Space Stone in the Gauntlet, so he gets his hands on the Tesseract at some point. Probably early on, since that would allow him to invade Earth again.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, the discs are out, so I guess we can bump this for discussing the extras.

Usually, when I go through the deleted scenes, I find several I wish had been left in. Surprisingly, I'm very happy with all the cuts this time. The only one that might change is the one with Skurge, and that depends on when in the film it slots in.

Oh, and if you like director commentary, Taika is joined by his daughter for part of his.

[Amazon]

Taika is really fun and funny.