Tabaxi class build help

[sflame56]

So right now I am playing a Tabaxi that is a lot of fun to play that is a rouge 2nd level right now. My first plan for him was to be an assassin that takes 20 rouge levels and that is it but now a few ideas have poped in my head just need help fleshing them out. The big thing is in my adventure no one is a spell caster at all so I thought I could fill that role with this character by multiclassing into bard, warlock, or sorcerer since my cha is 16 like my dex. If I multiclass the plan would be to most likely 6 levels in rouge and 14 in the other class. With bard I could get multi attack and bardic inspiration and healing spells (no healers right now in group). Never played a bard so I just don't know how well it flows with the Rouge class. Next for warlock its the all famous blade lock so darkness and get sneak attacks in darkness. Also a few big spells but I can mostly focus on combat if I want. At level 14 of it I max also get all the paths features for archfey, old one, and fiend. Finally sorcerer would allow for fun use of meta magic. Like quicken haste so I can use my action to attack. With the dragon one it allows me not to have to wear armor anymore with my 16 dex.

The thing is this character is a story teller and wants to make his own tales through his adventures. He also has an obsession with fate and destiny so the wild mage idea would fit that side of him a bit but no idea if it would be worth it for my multi class. Being able to mess with his own fate and luck would be interesting to do as he questions if he was destined to change his own luck or not.

Final idea is just taking all levels in another class since I can still respec before 5. Just want to get some help knowing what would be good and bad for this character and the multiclass path I should take or if I should respec.

Anyway for ideas keep it to main players guide and no weird homebrew stuff. Playing AL so I am restricted in what I can do.

[Camman1984]

The wanting to be a story teller screams bard to me, as does all the obsession with fates etc. it is also the most flexible class to build your own type of character.

[Level2intern]

I agree that bard sounds like a good fit. Bards have a great variety of spells, so they are excellent for covering all the bases if you are the only caster. You'll get some buffs, debuffs, healing, control, and a little aoe. Extra attack is nice to get a second chance at applying sneak attack but I like GFB or BB on rogues better.

[Captain Morgan]

Warlock has its appeal if you want to stay as Rogue-ish as possible. You only need 3 levels in Warlock to gain Devil's Sight and Darkness. Booming Blade, auto advantage, rogue weapon proficiency and higher sneak attack damage means that you don't especially need Extra attack or really anything out of Pact of the Blade.

You could instead take Chain, which gives you a huge increase in scouting, especially if you take Voice of the Chainmaster. A lenient DM might allow you to use an imp's devil sight to gain advantage instead of needing the invocation, which is sweet. GOO Patron also hook you up with telepathy which is useful when hidden.

Warlocks get a couple neat spells for rogues too. Hex giving people disadvantage on Wisdom checks makes it easier to pull the wool over their eyes via stealth or deception. Armor of Agathys can be stretched farther using Uncanny Dodge.

This all assumes you want Max sneak attack/rogue levels though. If you're more interested in expanded casting any of these have their appeal.

[jaappleton]

Bard all the way. Bard 6 if you can. Valor or Lore both have great aspects to them. Heck, you can argue College of Swords from Unearthed Arcana, that'll net you Two Weapon Fighting. I think Valor gets Shield proficiency. And of course, Lore gets Magical Secrets, which will help immensely in your sans-spellcaster group.

Inspiration Dice is... Its absolutely spectacular. One of the most underrated class features in the game. Especially after Bard 5, when its short-rest based. So damn good. Help skill checks, help turn attacks into hits, helps everything.

[sflame56]

Thanks everyone for the ideas! If you got anymore let me know.

[DivisibleByZero]

Thanks everyone for the ideas! If you got anymore let me know.

Okay.
Don't take Assassin.
Assassinate, which is the reason that theorycrafters love this subclass, pretty much sucks. It's ridiculously difficult to set up, unless you want to slow down play for the rest of the party. And the subclass is terrible beyond that. So the subclass is terrible as a whole.

Arcane Trickster would grant you more spell slots (since you're considering going with a caster multi).
Thief is hugely underrated, and is actually amazing at the table.
Swashbuckler is prime for your Cha bonus (if you're not playing AL).
But assassin? That would be a mistake IMO.

[Corran]

I've played around several assassin-like builds that use (a lot of) magic, and even got to play some of them (which helped a lot with optimizing them better). Now, I wont go into analyzing it too much, as it would make for a veeeeery long post, but I will present you some of my conclusions. Then, if you decide in which direction you want your character to move, I might be able to get a bit more specific. Anyway, here are some of my thoughts:

1) I am not a fan of the higher level features of the assassin archtype (most of what it gives can be replaced by utilizing various spells), that is why I prefer to stop at rogue 3, just to get the assassinate feature.

2) I prefer the dip in the spell casting class to be a big one, meaning that I always consider a minimum of 13 levels in either bard/warlock/sorcerer, in order to get up to at least 7th level spells (etherealness, teleport, etc).

3) I think there is a good enough way to create a STR-based assassin going the warlock route, so if you are thinking of a STR based assassin sing a greatsword, Know that there is a decent enough way to go about it. This uses a fighter dip.

4) Multiclassing out of rogue hurts your sneak attack, on which assassinate relies upon to be effective. Diping 2 levels in paladin can be worth it, if you want to still be effective at assassinating (and can be done without a hige cost at your character's overall efficiency without needing to reach level X -usually a big level- in order to be effective.

5) Going with warlock has several tricks to it, and as I hited earlier, it can work nicely both for a STR and a DEX build. It works better for a trickster-kind of character than an assassin-like imo though.

6) The bard has the best spell list (of the 3 classes mentioned) for an assassin-type of character, but I dont like how the class features mesh with the function of the overall build (warlock's and sorcerer's features work better imo).

7) The sorcerer is probably my favourite way to go about this, but the number of spells known and the fact that that their spell list is very lackluster stincks a bit. If allowed UA, it gets muuuuch better. Shadow is the best origin imo, followed closely by the old version of the favored soul (knowledge domain for non suggestion, non detection, arcane eye and scrying).

8) If you can get darkvision from a class feature (warlock, shadow sorc), humy is the best race. If you dont get darkvision, then you need a race with darkvision.



I leave you with a list of utility spells that I think work wonderfully on an assassin.
The spells below are mostly for utility purposes, that means that apart from them you will need to learn spells that will help you with your combat tactics (so they will depend a lot on your build).

Disguise self (preferably if you have the actor feat)
Charm person
Alter self
Invisibility
Suggestion
Spider climb
Misty step
Locate object
silence
Clairvoyance
Feign death
dispel magic
Non detection
Sending
Dimension door
Freedom of movement
Polymorph
Locate Creature
Geas
Creation
Dominate person
Modify memeory
Scrying
Disintegrate (yeah, for utility)
True seeing
Etherealness
Teleport


There's probably a lot more that I've forgotten (though I stopped on purpose at 7th level spells).
Not every spell above offers awesome utility, but I made sure to include several spells that offer at least some utility, because you might think of ways to use them that I have not. Some of them are pretty great choices for an assassin-like character. I will leave you to whatever conclusions you make, but if your narrow your choices for your build, I might come back and offer a suggestion or two.
And dont forget, magic is not only about utility, you will have some pretty damn good combat applications for it too.

[jaappleton]

Okay.
Don't take Assassin.
Assassinate, which is the reason that theorycrafters love this subclass, pretty much sucks. It's ridiculously difficult to set up, unless you want to slow down play for the rest of the party. And the subclass is terrible beyond that. So the subclass is terrible as a whole.

Arcane Trickster would grant you more spell slots (since you're considering going with a caster multi).
Thief is hugely underrated, and is actually amazing at the table.
Swashbuckler is prime for your Cha bonus (if you're not playing AL).
But assassin? That would be a mistake IMO.

THANK YOU!

I've been in the "Assassin is terrible" camp for awhile now. Its nice to see the sentiment isn't mine exclusively.

[Biggstick]

So right now I am playing a Tabaxi that is a lot of fun to play that is a rouge 2nd level right now. My first plan for him was to be an assassin that takes 20 rouge levels and that is it but now a few ideas have poped in my head just need help fleshing them out. The big thing is in my adventure no one is a spell caster at all so I thought I could fill that role with this character by multiclassing into bard, warlock, or sorcerer since my cha is 16 like my dex. If I multiclass the plan would be to most likely 6 levels in rouge and 14 in the other class. With bard I could get multi attack and bardic inspiration and healing spells (no healers right now in group). Never played a bard so I just don't know how well it flows with the Rouge class. Next for warlock its the all famous blade lock so darkness and get sneak attacks in darkness. Also a few big spells but I can mostly focus on combat if I want. At level 14 of it I max also get all the paths features for archfey, old one, and fiend. Finally sorcerer would allow for fun use of meta magic. Like quicken haste so I can use my action to attack. With the dragon one it allows me not to have to wear armor anymore with my 16 dex.

The thing is this character is a story teller and wants to make his own tales through his adventures. He also has an obsession with fate and destiny so the wild mage idea would fit that side of him a bit but no idea if it would be worth it for my multi class. Being able to mess with his own fate and luck would be interesting to do as he questions if he was destined to change his own luck or not.

Final idea is just taking all levels in another class since I can still respec before 5. Just want to get some help knowing what would be good and bad for this character and the multiclass path I should take or if I should respec.

Anyway for ideas keep it to main players guide and no weird homebrew stuff. Playing AL so I am restricted in what I can do.

Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard.

The bolded section just screams Bard to me. Bards are storytellers who enjoy telling a tale. You'll be able to have just as many proficiencies as a Rogue (more if you go Lore, less if you go Valor) with just as many Expertise'd skills (although a little later then Rogue). You'll also get Jack of All Trades, which gives you a little bit more on the "skill proficiency" front. Your spells can do a ton of the Rogue work for you if you choose the right spells.

I might be getting a bit ahead of myself though too. You've laid out pretty clearly what your character is like, and that's awesome in allowing us to help you create this character. Something else that needs to be answered is how you want to contribute in combat. A Rogue's combat contributions are different from a Lore or Valor Bard. In fact all three classes act pretty differently in combat based on how you build them. This are my general estimations for how you're looking to play the Rogue and what Valor/Lore Bards do in combat.

Melee Rogue: Approach melee range on an enemy. Utilize Cunning Action, melee sneak attacks, and Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade if you have it. Skirt in and out of melee combat and avoid getting hit.
Ranged Rogue: Utilize Sharpshooter/Crossbow Expert range and bonus action extra attack. Use Cunning Action to generate your own advantage (with Hide) if your allies aren't generating it for you. Stay as far away from the melee combatants as you can while doing as much damage as possible.
Lore Bard: Keep a healthy distance, but not so far away that you're out of range of your spells. Throw down Healing Word if an ally goes down, provide Bardic Inspirations to those who need it, and Cutting Words as appropriate. Your damage is going to pretty low, as all you're bringing is Vicious Mockery. But hey, you're here to support the party, and you're on of the best at it.
Melee Valor Bard: Approach melee range on an enemy after dropping some sort of spell on either the enemy or on self to give one self an advantage. Swing for two attacks with Great Weapon Master or utilize Expertise'd Athletics + Shield Master for some awesome shoving action. Either way you're pretty squishy but laying down some ok damage.
Ranged Valor Bard: Utilize Sharpshooter range and extra attacks. The majority of your spells should be for support-utility until you get to level 4 spells (level 7). At this point you have Greater Invisibility, and can now generate your own advantage on attack rolls if you cast it on yourself. This focus is on supporting the party while laying down ranged damage from as far away as possible.

I personally am a fan of the ranged Valor Bard, but any Bard will do the trick of a Rogue almost as well as the Rogue and provide full spell casting progression.
So if you've decided Bard combat is something you're comfortable with, there are a couple things I'd consider regarding your party.

No Healer. If you decide to grab the Inspiring Leader feat, you as a Bard are going to be able to almost completely deal with the lack of having a "true" healer pretty much by yourself. Bards already improve short rest recovery with their level 2 ability; adding the temporary hp from Inspiring Leader every short rest to your entire party makes short rests even more appealing. And if you're truly acting in the support fashion, grab Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Dispel Magic, and Greater Restoration. These 4 spells give you the ability to clear debuffs from allies, bring an ally up from 0, and clear buffs from enemies (Dispel Magic will work wonders against a boss that turns him/herself invisible). If your party expects more from a healer, they can shove it, as that means they're not acting defensively enough to protect themselves (I'm looking at all you Greatsword wielding Paladins and Fighters who expect to be patched up to full hp by a healer after every fight. Utilize the Dodge action!).

Party composition. As a Bard, you can absolutely fill any role in the party. What role exactly are you trying to fill for your party? You'll be able to fill any role in an ok fashion, but if you tailor your build towards it, you'll be able to do it even better. This brings me to my next point regarding your party.

Specialization and Support. You're going to be able to narrow yourself down to a role pretty well with the Bard class. If you pick up the Criminal or Urchin background, you have proficiency in Thieves Tools and you'll already have a decent enough Dexterity to use them pretty well. Aside from your specialization though, you're one of the best at making others better at what they do. You can in fact massively change the luck and fate of your fellow party members with something like an Enhance Ability spell + Bardic Inspiration. This works for pretty much anything your ally is trying to achieve, as they'll get advantage on the check, and your Bardic Inspiration die on top of their roll. This ability can also work for you, but only for Lore Bards who plan on making contesting checks. Enhance Ability on self + Cutting Words for someone making a contested check. While these are two pretty simple abilities, you can massively change the outcome of most rolls utilizing these abilities. In my mind, this would represent that ability to change one's luck.

In combat mechanics. As a Tabaxi, you have that fantastic ability to double your speed for a turn, with the only requirement to get the ability back being a turn without movement. This pretty easily represents your ability to get out of a crappy situation, with you being able to use your Action to Disengage, your movement to get away (60'), and a bonus action to Healing Word or Bardic Inspiration an ally. Having the ability to climb built into a Bard also creates situations where the Bard can be in a place not expected for him/her to normally be in.

Overall, if you're worried about your party not having a Healer, you can easily bridge that gap with a Bard. You'll be able to do most of the cool things a Rogue can do, especially as a Tabaxi one. You'll gain full spellcasting progression. And you have built in capability to be one of the most amazing story tellers your GM's world has ever seen.

[sflame56]

Bard Bard Bard Bard Bard.

The bolded section just screams Bard to me. Bards are storytellers who enjoy telling a tale. You'll be able to have just as many proficiencies as a Rogue (more if you go Lore, less if you go Valor) with just as many Expertise'd skills (although a little later then Rogue). You'll also get Jack of All Trades, which gives you a little bit more on the "skill proficiency" front. Your spells can do a ton of the Rogue work for you if you choose the right spells.

I might be getting a bit ahead of myself though too. You've laid out pretty clearly what your character is like, and that's awesome in allowing us to help you create this character. Something else that needs to be answered is how you want to contribute in combat. A Rogue's combat contributions are different from a Lore or Valor Bard. In fact all three classes act pretty differently in combat based on how you build them. This are my general estimations for how you're looking to play the Rogue and what Valor/Lore Bards do in combat.

Melee Rogue: Approach melee range on an enemy. Utilize Cunning Action, melee sneak attacks, and Booming Blade/Greenflame Blade if you have it. Skirt in and out of melee combat and avoid getting hit.
Ranged Rogue: Utilize Sharpshooter/Crossbow Expert range and bonus action extra attack. Use Cunning Action to generate your own advantage (with Hide) if your allies aren't generating it for you. Stay as far away from the melee combatants as you can while doing as much damage as possible.
Lore Bard: Keep a healthy distance, but not so far away that you're out of range of your spells. Throw down Healing Word if an ally goes down, provide Bardic Inspirations to those who need it, and Cutting Words as appropriate. Your damage is going to pretty low, as all you're bringing is Vicious Mockery. But hey, you're here to support the party, and you're on of the best at it.
Melee Valor Bard: Approach melee range on an enemy after dropping some sort of spell on either the enemy or on self to give one self an advantage. Swing for two attacks with Great Weapon Master or utilize Expertise'd Athletics + Shield Master for some awesome shoving action. Either way you're pretty squishy but laying down some ok damage.
Ranged Valor Bard: Utilize Sharpshooter range and extra attacks. The majority of your spells should be for support-utility until you get to level 4 spells (level 7). At this point you have Greater Invisibility, and can now generate your own advantage on attack rolls if you cast it on yourself. This focus is on supporting the party while laying down ranged damage from as far away as possible.

I personally am a fan of the ranged Valor Bard, but any Bard will do the trick of a Rogue almost as well as the Rogue and provide full spell casting progression.
So if you've decided Bard combat is something you're comfortable with, there are a couple things I'd consider regarding your party.

No Healer. If you decide to grab the Inspiring Leader feat, you as a Bard are going to be able to almost completely deal with the lack of having a "true" healer pretty much by yourself. Bards already improve short rest recovery with their level 2 ability; adding the temporary hp from Inspiring Leader every short rest to your entire party makes short rests even more appealing. And if you're truly acting in the support fashion, grab Healing Word, Lesser Restoration, Dispel Magic, and Greater Restoration. These 4 spells give you the ability to clear debuffs from allies, bring an ally up from 0, and clear buffs from enemies (Dispel Magic will work wonders against a boss that turns him/herself invisible). If your party expects more from a healer, they can shove it, as that means they're not acting defensively enough to protect themselves (I'm looking at all you Greatsword wielding Paladins and Fighters who expect to be patched up to full hp by a healer after every fight. Utilize the Dodge action!).

Party composition. As a Bard, you can absolutely fill any role in the party. What role exactly are you trying to fill for your party? You'll be able to fill any role in an ok fashion, but if you tailor your build towards it, you'll be able to do it even better. This brings me to my next point regarding your party.

Specialization and Support. You're going to be able to narrow yourself down to a role pretty well with the Bard class. If you pick up the Criminal or Urchin background, you have proficiency in Thieves Tools and you'll already have a decent enough Dexterity to use them pretty well. Aside from your specialization though, you're one of the best at making others better at what they do. You can in fact massively change the luck and fate of your fellow party members with something like an Enhance Ability spell + Bardic Inspiration. This works for pretty much anything your ally is trying to achieve, as they'll get advantage on the check, and your Bardic Inspiration die on top of their roll. This ability can also work for you, but only for Lore Bards who plan on making contesting checks. Enhance Ability on self + Cutting Words for someone making a contested check. While these are two pretty simple abilities, you can massively change the outcome of most rolls utilizing these abilities. In my mind, this would represent that ability to change one's luck.

In combat mechanics. As a Tabaxi, you have that fantastic ability to double your speed for a turn, with the only requirement to get the ability back being a turn without movement. This pretty easily represents your ability to get out of a crappy situation, with you being able to use your Action to Disengage, your movement to get away (60'), and a bonus action to Healing Word or Bardic Inspiration an ally. Having the ability to climb built into a Bard also creates situations where the Bard can be in a place not expected for him/her to normally be in.

Overall, if you're worried about your party not having a Healer, you can easily bridge that gap with a Bard. You'll be able to do most of the cool things a Rogue can do, especially as a Tabaxi one. You'll gain full spellcasting progression. And you have built in capability to be one of the most amazing story tellers your GM's world has ever seen.

Thanks so much for the fun ideas from here it was a fun read and it does help in my final decision. Looking at everything it looks like it would be better if I do a Thief or arcane trickster with bard split so I get fast hands or just more spell slots. Looking at assassin all I would get would be just one free crit at the start and that is it. With thief I can use my bonus action for a lot of things for different situations if I need to though. The biggest thing is if I go str I feel it wouldn't make sense for the character being a part cat race. One silly idea I had was being a valor bard that goes in melee and casts spirit guardians thanks to the magical secrets and just goes ham. Lore bard would allow that to happen early and make them look like the hero in tales surrounded by angels (goes with what my character also wants to be). Just have to decide if I will just be a bard now or both a rouge and a bard.

[sflame56]

Okay.
Don't take Assassin.
Assassinate, which is the reason that theorycrafters love this subclass, pretty much sucks. It's ridiculously difficult to set up, unless you want to slow down play for the rest of the party. And the subclass is terrible beyond that. So the subclass is terrible as a whole.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. Mostly I wanted to go assassin since we had a rouge ranger that would just roll all the dice for damage and could easily deal 50+ damage in turn one and I thought that was badass. Hunters mark, bardic inspiration from valor bard, sneak attack, finally auto crit. Ya he hurt a lotttttttt.

[sflame56]

Just wanted to quickly say again thank you all for the help with my character. I have only been playing dnd for around 2-3 years and I allows love getting help with the characters I make. I love all the ideas and I am thinking them over.