Vanishing an Entire City

[Augment Tab]

Greetings, Giants,

I'm trying to create a city for an Arabian Nights themed campaign that will be a "mirage city." I want it to be able to disappear and reappear at will, making it appear as a mirage to distant travelers. I know as the DM, I can always just make something up, but I wanted to see if there's anything that could back it up with functional in-game mechanics.

The only thing I could think of is the spell mirage arcana, but that's a maximum of 400 cubic feet from a 20th-level caster. I've been toying around with the idea of an epic spell but I'm not really sure of what I'm doing with that stuff.

Do you guys know of anything else that might achieve the effect I'm looking for?

[Thurbane]

My first thought was some combo of the Locate City spell and the Invisible Spell feat, but I don't think that would actually work...

[Bronk]

There's something similar from Sandstorm... a fey oasis, run by Mirage Mullahs.

In that case, the oasis only exists from dusk till dawn.

[Bullet06320]

epic spell create mythal from lost empires of faerun is where to start

[Augment Tab]

epic spell create mythal from lost empires of faerun is where to start

I'm not sure that I have that book. I'll take a look when I get home and see.

[Fizban]

Cheese the targeting info: it's an illusion, it doesn't matter if anything on the other side is covered as long as the part you're looking at is. Cast the Mirage Arcana as a barrier around the town so you only ward a ring the length of the circumference. Shape it down to 10' thick (the minimum) for double the length, giving you 40' of length per caster level (at 20' high only flyers should have a chance of getting a good look).

To cast the spell, build it as wondrous architecture (1/4 price) casting the spell 1/day (1/5 price). 10,000gp gets you 800' for 20 hours per day with cl20. Crazy expensive? Epic spells cost millions.

More simply, just research a custom spell. The 9th level druid spell Shadow Landscape (SpC) affects a 1 mile radius. The 9th level mystery Black Labyrinth (Cityscape WE) does the same. Utterdark hits a 100'/level radius, more than a quarter mile before metamagic. There's more than enough precedent for a simple 9th level spell that covers/surrounds a massive area in a fog, mirage, or illusion. Then you do the same as before, wondrous architecture casting 1/day, for a mere 15,300gp.

You could also design an incantation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/incantations.htm), but that's only slightly more structured than just writing the spell at 9th level. Permanent Image is already permanent and can be moved by the caster: if you can cast a Silent Image of a "mirage," then a souped up incantation based on Permanent Image can do the job (a "mirage" is caused by heat distortions, and Silent Image can create the image of a "force" so. . . ). Although if you can do that you don't need an incantation, just enough castings of Permanent Image to ring the city, but if you want a ton of length it'd be easier to use the double area/+3 until you've got enough.

You should probably define "city" so we know what kind of area you're talking about.

Edit: so, while the incantation modifiers don't block out exponential area stacking, they lack a range increase, putting a pretty hard cap on Programmed Image at 880' radius (5529' circumference, 6 doublings gets you to the full ring, 7 for 20' high, total +21 DC). Control Weather on the other hand has a natural 2 mile radius, but you don't get fine control. An Archmage can shape any amount of empty space into a spell, but Control Weather has an area of "circle," which isn't on the allowed list of area types for mastery of shaping. You could use Sudden Widen for an outer ring followed by a normal cast to calm the inner portion, but Widen Spell also specifies the area types preventing this. That's all I've got for now.

[Augment Tab]

You should probably define "city" so we know what kind of area you're talking about.

Something in the area of 5-10 square miles.

[Gildedragon]

I have two ideas, one a bit silly, the other more practical:
Boring first: planeshifting wondrous architecture; to and from the ethereal or shadow plane ought be sufficient

Ridiculous: truckloads of shapesand and the awaken sand spell... or some being of vast wisdom and physical non-abilities that has nothing better to do than make filigree sand castles.

Bonus: synchronized spellclocks of war-spell teleportation circle. 300,000 per square mile

Second bonus: awaken the buildings and give them a burrow speed

[Bronk]

Another idea: The city is actually on another plane.

It could be on the ethereal plane, and it's just hard to see sometimes.

It could be in any other dimension, but project images onto the prime material plane that take the form of a mirage. They wouldn't be the kind of illusions you could disbelieve easily, because they would always appear far away, and not easy to 'interact' with.

In both cases, the only way to truly get there would be hidden portals, and the portals themselves would activate and deactivate at various times, as portals can do.

*****
Or... a city in the clouds, surrounded by illusions (clear sky, mirage image, open desert, or off).

Or, the desert is filled with spots that just make people see mirages, and a city is incidental.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Screen does exactly what you want, but the area is too small and it can't be made permanent. Since it's an 8th level spell you're unlikely to find what you want pre-epic.
Shifting Paths (SpC) has the requisite area (1 mile + 1 mile/level), but it only hides paths or roads

The easiest solution is to make it an epic spell. Mythal Seed, Screen through the entire area. That's pretty simple as far as mythals go.

[Zaq]

So first we have to figure out what the nature of the city is. Is the city real at all, or is it just an illusion? Is its "disappearing and reappearing" nature the result of an illusion-type effect (the city doesn't actually move, but it appears to from the outside), or is it actually moving? Is someone actively controlling it, or is it the result of an ongoing effect (whether "natural" or from a long-standing spell or whatever)? Do the residents know that the city is moving, and if so, what effect does that have on their daily lives? If natives of the city venture outside of it, do they have a trick or knack for finding their way home that outsiders don't have? If the city is real, are the majority of its residents happy to see outsiders (it's more difficult to visit them than normal, so they like contact from outside, since outsiders have money and news and exotic goods), or are they very distrusting and want to keep everyone else out (the implication being that the city moves specifically to keep people out)? Regarding that last question, the folks in the city likely aren't monolithic in their opinion of outsiders, but there should probably be a prevailing opinion overall.

You're likely either going to need to make something up or else use Epic magic (which basically amounts to making something up), but it's best to know what you're aiming for before you start, don't you think?

[Fizban]

Circle of area 10 has circumference 11.2. DnD miles are 6,000'. (11.2*6,000)/800= 84. You can surround the area with a 20' tall illusion which masks the appearance of terrain and structures behind it for 20 hours per day at a cost of 840,000gp with a series of Pillars of the Mirage casting 1/day Mirage Arcana at cl20. Offsetting the down cycles would make for some tricky stories.

To use a mythal, you'll need to expand the 100' radius out to 1.78 miles, 10,680'. That'll take 106 uses of increase area by 100%, for +424 DC. They mythal itself has DC 25, +20 for a Mirage Arcana effect. Total 469. The mythal mitigating factors don't say what order they apply in so the 3/4 multipliers are dubious, but you can get -200 from the classic 100 day casting time and probably another -60 depending on how much you're willing to have the caster soak. Applying stuff in the most favorable order, Anchored down to 352, Capstone down to 332, 100 day casting down to 132, burn 20,000xp down to 112. Followed by however many extra ritual casters you're willing to give this guy, all of whom must maintain concentration throughout the whole casting time. At DC 112 it would cost 1,008,000 to research.

The Mythal version may or may not be able to lower the mirage, since its folding the effect into "comparable to spells of 4th to 6th level or medium magic items," but it is automatically blanketing the area by invoking the mythal's "just do whatever" clauses. You could reduce the cost with a smaller circle of course, but that applies to any method, and using an epic spell sets a precedent for epic spells.

There's another question though: just how much of disappear and reappear at will you want.

Or just brew the 9th level Mirage City spell and have a couple 1/day pillars casting that over the area for dirt cheap. Actually I'm sure there's an official pillar of constant Utterdark somewhere, but I can't remember where. Would work as an official price suggestion.

[JNAProductions]

Are you the DM? It sounds like you're the DM.

You don't have to follow the rules-make an artifact or something in the center of the city that does that, or just declare that it does that due to planar vagaries. Having solid rules backing it up is nice, but not needed.

[sleepyphoenixx]

To use a mythal, you'll need to expand the 100' radius out to 1.78 miles, 10,680'. That'll take 106 uses of increase area by 100%, for +424 DC. They mythal itself has DC 25, +20 for a Mirage Arcana effect. Total 469. The mythal mitigating factors don't say what order they apply in so the 3/4 multipliers are dubious, but you can get -200 from the classic 100 day casting time and probably another -60 depending on how much you're willing to have the caster soak. Applying stuff in the most favorable order, Anchored down to 352, Capstone down to 332, 100 day casting down to 132, burn 20,000xp down to 112. Followed by however many extra ritual casters you're willing to give this guy, all of whom must maintain concentration throughout the whole casting time. At DC 112 it would cost 1,008,000 to research.

A better version to lower DC is to just add extra casters casting 6th level spells. Summon Monster IX lets you summon an Ursinal, which can cast 6th level spells as a wizard.
Then you plane shift to a plane that's timeless with regard to magic, use a Feather Token:Tree and cast Acorn of Far Travel on that. Now your summons are permanent until dismissed/dispelled.
Proceed to summon as many Ursinals as you need for your epic spell.

Or you could use the less cheesy but more costly option of Planar Binding/Gate. But if you can afford to spend over 1 million gp on an epic spell you can afford to spend half that much on Planar Binding and get the spell nearly for free.

[Augment Tab]

I have two ideas, one a bit silly, the other more practical:
Boring first: planeshifting wondrous architecture; to and from the ethereal or shadow plane ought be sufficient

This is something I was toying with.



Another idea: The city is actually on another plane.

I had not thought of this, and I like the idea. Might use that for another city.



Screen does exactly what you want, but the area is too small and it can't be made permanent. Since it's an 8th level spell you're unlikely to find what you want pre-epic.
Shifting Paths (SpC) has the requisite area (1 mile + 1 mile/level), but it only hides paths or roads

The easiest solution is to make it an epic spell. Mythal Seed, Screen through the entire area. That's pretty simple as far as mythals go.

I'd hate to see what it'd do to the Spellcraft DC to make it that big.



So first we have to figure out what the nature of the city is. Is the city real at all, or is it just an illusion? Is its "disappearing and reappearing" nature the result of an illusion-type effect (the city doesn't actually move, but it appears to from the outside), or is it actually moving? Is someone actively controlling it, or is it the result of an ongoing effect (whether "natural" or from a long-standing spell or whatever)? Do the residents know that the city is moving, and if so, what effect does that have on their daily lives? If natives of the city venture outside of it, do they have a trick or knack for finding their way home that outsiders don't have? If the city is real, are the majority of its residents happy to see outsiders (it's more difficult to visit them than normal, so they like contact from outside, since outsiders have money and news and exotic goods), or are they very distrusting and want to keep everyone else out (the implication being that the city moves specifically to keep people out)? Regarding that last question, the folks in the city likely aren't monolithic in their opinion of outsiders, but there should probably be a prevailing opinion overall.

You're likely either going to need to make something up or else use Epic magic (which basically amounts to making something up), but it's best to know what you're aiming for before you start, don't you think?

I know exactly what I'm aiming for in terms of the fluff; it's the crunch I don't understand. The city is very real, but the original idea was that it uses illusory magic to trick people into thinking it isn't there depending on their distance from the city. I had considered the possibility of having it be able to plane-shift instead, but I haven't decided on that yet. It's not controlled by anyone, it just acts on its own as part of an ongoing effect. The residents are quite aware, and it has minimal effect on their daily lives. They don't often travel outside the city, but there's a way of getting into the city that all residents know. The city is mostly indifferent to outsiders; they're somewhat xenophobic, but are relatively secured in the knowledge that people can't just stumble into the city by accident.



Circle of area 10 has circumference 11.2. DnD miles are 6,000'. (11.2*6,000)/800= 84. You can surround the area with a 20' tall illusion which masks the appearance of terrain and structures behind it for 20 hours per day at a cost of 840,000gp with a series of Pillars of the Mirage casting 1/day Mirage Arcana at cl20. Offsetting the down cycles would make for some tricky stories.

To use a mythal, you'll need to expand the 100' radius out to 1.78 miles, 10,680'. That'll take 106 uses of increase area by 100%, for +424 DC. They mythal itself has DC 25, +20 for a Mirage Arcana effect. Total 469. The mythal mitigating factors don't say what order they apply in so the 3/4 multipliers are dubious, but you can get -200 from the classic 100 day casting time and probably another -60 depending on how much you're willing to have the caster soak. Applying stuff in the most favorable order, Anchored down to 352, Capstone down to 332, 100 day casting down to 132, burn 20,000xp down to 112. Followed by however many extra ritual casters you're willing to give this guy, all of whom must maintain concentration throughout the whole casting time. At DC 112 it would cost 1,008,000 to research.

The Mythal version may or may not be able to lower the mirage, since its folding the effect into "comparable to spells of 4th to 6th level or medium magic items," but it is automatically blanketing the area by invoking the mythal's "just do whatever" clauses. You could reduce the cost with a smaller circle of course, but that applies to any method, and using an epic spell sets a precedent for epic spells.

There's another question though: just how much of disappear and reappear at will you want.

Or just brew the 9th level Mirage City spell and have a couple 1/day pillars casting that over the area for dirt cheap. Actually I'm sure there's an official pillar of constant Utterdark somewhere, but I can't remember where. Would work as an official price suggestion.

I was right. That is one hefty Spellcraft DC. Either the original caster will have to be insanely powerful, insanely cheesy, or have a whole lot of friends to aid another. That said, your solution seems to fit the closest to what I want so far.



Are you the DM? It sounds like you're the DM.

You don't have to follow the rules-make an artifact or something in the center of the city that does that, or just declare that it does that due to planar vagaries. Having solid rules backing it up is nice, but not needed.

I am the DM. While I don't necessarily need to follow the rules, I find it fun to put myself into the mindset of the insane wizards that attempted something like this - and succeeded.



A better version to lower DC is to just add extra casters casting 6th level spells. Summon Monster IX lets you summon an Ursinal, which can cast 6th level spells as a wizard.
Then you plane shift to a plane that's timeless with regard to magic, use a Feather Token:Tree and cast Acorn of Far Travel on that. Now your summons are permanent until dismissed/dispelled.
Proceed to summon as many Ursinals as you need for your epic spell.

Or you could use the less cheesy but more costly option of Planar Binding/Gate. But if you can afford to spend over 1 million gp on an epic spell you can afford to spend half that much on Planar Binding and get the spell nearly for free.

This seems pretty reasonable.

Thank you guys, these are pretty great responses and suggestions. The playground never disappoints. I've got a lot to think about.

[CIDE]

It could be that it's after my bed time (I work nights and I just got done with 5 12's with just one day break) right now but I looked at the Mythal spell and my mind just went "bwah...?". Could anyone break the descrition down a bit more or better, please? If it does what it sounds like it does from what people are discussing in this thread then I may want to use it for one of my NPC's as well.

[Fizban]

The mythal epic spell seed (Lost Empires of Faerun) is pretty much just "I want all of that, in this." You don't actually combine it with other seeds: you build the mythal seed out of its own guidelines, which let you just say everyone/thing in the area is constantly under spell X, spell Y can't be cast, and so on. The DC for covering a small area in a permanent effect is quite low since you don't pay a multiplier for permanent duration, but adding more effects or covering a massive area jacks up the DC.

Not that mythals were originally designed as epic spells, as they predate the 3.x epic spell system. The mythal seed is simply the missing piece needed to fit that fiat into the epic spell system. If you don't know how epic spells work, look here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/epicSpells.htm). Basically it lets spellcasters over 21st level start just writing their own mega spells, with a set of guidelines that are simultaneously easy to abuse and make it impossible to do anything, depending on your expectations. One thing it's bad at is just covering an area with permanent spells, so naturally they went and wrote the mythal seed to let people do that more easily/justify all the fiat magic zones in Forgotten Realms.

[Freezy]

1.
why not line the countryside with spell turrets that fire suggestions (or localized illusions) whenever there is a potential "ne'er do well" nearby.
The way into the city would be to bear a certain symbol, so that the spell turrets would not fire at you.

2.
as a variation on this, the city houses the spirit of an ancient protector, that uses scrying magic to monitor the surrounding area.
when people enter it's view it will observe and decide to give them a true or false vision of the city.
this way the city is there and is just plain, but getting there is hard without a tinfoil hat

3.
If you can use manifester zones, just add one for illusions into the city (Boosting range and perhaps duration).
It does not have to move and it could add a lot of crazyness for any visitor.

4.
silent image is a level 1 spell, it does everything you want in a mirage, except it is rather small.
you can simply enhance it with at-will-metamagics, treating it as a higher level spell as appropriate.

5.
Or just do the mechanics of the city, save DC if any, counters to the mirage if any.
Is it a curse or a boon, is it granted by a deity or was it a mad-wizard that hid his tower (now millenia later, people made a city around his forever secret tower)