Proficiency in every skill

[Lombra]

Long stories short:
8th level proficiency master

Half elf Bard (Lore) 4/ Rogue1/ Warlock2/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1

2 skills from the race
2 from the background
3 from the Bard + 3 from the college = 6
3 because of Skilled feat
1 because of Rogue multiclass
2 from the Knowledge Domain
2 from the warlock's Beguiling Influence invocation

For a total of 18 (all) skills in which you add your proficiency bonus, you also double the bonus on 4 skills of your choice because of various experteses and on the four knowledge skills: Arcana, Nature, Religion, History.

At level 20 you can reach 10th level in Bard for another expertise and 6th level in Rogue (possibly Arcane Trickster for spell slots progression) for yet more expertise, so that you'll end with adding double your proficiency bonus in 12 skills.

This character has only 3 ASIs and one of them is spent on the Skilled feat, but has medium armor and shields proficiency so maybe with tough and war caster he could stand a chance even in the frontline.

Just some useless thoughts that I wanted to share, do you have more efficient ways to achieve such a skilled character? And how would you (if you would) play it? Personally I see the 8th level proficiency master as primarly a support caster which basically handles all the social encounters by himself.

[Naanomi]

V Human (skilled) Rogue 1/Bard (Lore) 3/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Warlock 2 (beguiling influence) does it at 7...

if we add UA material we can do it at 6th I think (V Human (skilled) Rogue (scout) 3/Mystic (nomad) 1/Cleric (knowledge) 1/Ranger (revised) 1) with all skills and a beefy 'wilderness warrior' chassis

In practice though, jack of all trades as a bard covers a lot of ground with medicine, animal handling, etc... a half-Elf Lore Bard with one level of Knowlege Cleric really does everything a 'skill master' needs to do for me in play

[Lombra]

V Human (skilled) Rogue 1/Bard (Lore) 3/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Warlock 2 (beguiling influence) does it at 7... if we add UA material we can do it at 6th I think

Oh right the Variant Human, nice catch. I didn't read extensively through the UAs so I stuck with the core rulebook.
Edit: I think the Variant Human falls short of one skill if I'm not mistaken.

[tieren]

With eldritch blast as your at-will damage he'll stay perfectly competitive with most other PCs throughout his career.

Buffing and controlling as a bard fits well too for using the slots. I wouldn't put him on the front line though.

[Naanomi]

Oh right the Variant Human, nice catch. I didn't read extensively through the UAs so I stuck with the core rulebook.
Edit: I think the Variant Human falls short of one skill if I'm not mistaken.

V Human - 1
Skilled - 3
Background - 2
Rogue - 4
Knowlege domain - 2
Beguiling influence - 2
Bard multiclass - 1
Lore Bard subclass - 3

[Lombra]

V Human - 1
Skilled - 3
Background - 2
Rogue - 4
Knowlege domain - 2
Beguiling influence - 2
Bard multiclass - 1
Lore Bard subclass - 3

I totally missed the Rogue as the starting class, giod job! It's already 10 skill proficiencies at 1st level xD

[Pichu]

If UA is allowed...

Rogue (Scout) 6/Bard (Lore) 3/Wizard (Lore) 2/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Psion (v2) 1
TOTAL = 13th level

Half-Elf: 2 skills
Background: 2 skills
(Base) Rogue: 4 skills
(M/C) Bard: 1 skill
(Lore) Bard: 3 skills
(Know.) Cleric: 2 skills
Psion: 2 skills
Skilled Feat: 3 skills
=18 skills

Bard 3: 2 expertise
Rogue 1: 2 expertise
(Scout) Rogue 3: 2 expertise
Rogue 6: 2 expertise
(Know.) Cleric 1: 2 expertise
Psion 1: 2 expertise
Wizard 2: 4 expertise
=16 expertise

tl;dr by 13th level, you have proficiency in all skills and expertise in 16/18 of them

[DivisibleByZero]

I really don't see the need for all of the multiclassing.
If you want to be a skill monkey, and still be able to contribute, Warlock 2 / Lore Bard X is your best bet.
Jack of All Trades covers any skills you aren't proficient with.
Warlock 2 gets you reliable at-will damage.
Primarility Bard levels means you aren't hurting much on your casting, like all that multiclassing will do.
All of that multiclassing is just wasted, IMNSHO. It's a gimmick.

[Lombra]

If UA is allowed...

Rogue (Scout) 6/Bard (Lore) 3/Wizard (Lore) 2/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Psion (v2) 1
TOTAL = 13th level

Half-Elf: 2 skills
Background: 2 skills
(Base) Rogue: 4 skills
(M/C) Bard: 1 skill
(Lore) Bard: 3 skills
(Know.) Cleric: 2 skills
Psion: 2 skills
Skilled Feat: 3 skills
=18 skills

Bard 3: 2 expertise
Rogue 1: 2 expertise
(Scout) Rogue 3: 2 expertise
Rogue 6: 2 expertise
(Know.) Cleric 1: 2 expertise
Psion 1: 2 expertise
Wizard 2: 4 expertise
=16 expertise

tl;dr by 13th level, you have proficiency in all skills and expertise in 16/18 of them

Now that's dedication, it's a shame that we're just two away from the skill god of expertise in everything.


I really don't see the need for all of the multiclassing.
If you want to be a skill monkey, and still be able to contribute, Warlock 2 / Lore Bard X is your best bet.
Jack of All Trades covers any skills you aren't proficient with.
Warlock 2 gets you reliable at-will damage.
Primarility Bard levels means you aren't hurting much on your casting, like all that multiclassing will do.
All of that multiclassing is just wasted, IMNSHO. It's a gimmick.

It's not a matter of efficiency, just an exercise to acheve something, you know, for fun.

[DivisibleByZero]

It's not a matter of efficiency, just an exercise to acheve something, you know, for fun.

It's an excercise in efficiency that's been done, you know, just for fun, like 50 times. A new thread about it pops up every month or so.

[Lombra]

It's an excercise in efficiency that's been done, you know, just for fun, like 50 times. A new thread about it pops up every month or so.

I can't remember a thread like that in the whole time I've been here, and the point is not to make an efficient character, but to find the most efficient way to get as much skills as high as possible. I think you might have read it the wrong way.

[Naanomi]

I can't remember a thread like that in the whole time I've been here, and the point is not to make an efficient character, but to find the most efficient way to get as much skills as high as possible. I think you might have read it the wrong way.
It's been done as its own thread a few times; that's how I knew the 'best' answer immediately

Not as often as top run speed threads though

[MrFahrenheit]

So in my campaign, I've banned vhumans but fixed the standard human with "one simple trick:" players can swap out any (or none...or all) of their +1 ability bumps for proficiency in any skill of their choice. They can therefore start with no ability +1s, but 6 skill proficiencies, before even getting to backgrounds and classes. Therefore, a player in my campaign could max out all proficiencies by level 5 as a human:
Six from racial
Two from background
Four from rogue
Two from knowledge cleric
One from bard...then three more upon joining the college of lore

Optimal build for combat would be a lightning arrow master. Comes fully online at CL 17: AT 6/Lore bard 10/knowledge cleric 1.

[DivisibleByZero]

Comes fully online at CL 17.

Do people actually play games like this?
"Hey guys, I have an awesome idea for a character. We might never get to a level where it will work, and I'll be pretty useless for most of (if not all of) the game, but on paper it's awesome!"

[erok0809]

Do people actually play games like this?
"Hey guys, I have an awesome idea for a character. We might never get to a level where it will work, and I'll be pretty useless for most of (if not all of) the game, but on paper it's awesome!"

It's more of a thought experiment for most people, but not every game starts at level 1. Some DMs might occasionally want to run a high level campaign, and it's nice to have cool builds ready for if they do that.

Or, if you're a DM, they can be cool NPCs that exist in your world, that form the stuff of legends that your players might hear about, or even someday meet, whether as friends or foes.

[LeonBH]

Wow, Zero. Why are you shooting down a thread you're clearly not interested in participating in? Is it fun to show disdain? They do it for fun, and apparently they haven't gotten their fills after doing it for the last 50 times. Just like you pretend to be a vengeful half-elf rogue that kills goblins (I don't actually know the characters you play, but D&D as a game asks for child-like fantasy), so do they make their own characters.

As for my contribution to the thread:

Half-Elf -> 2 Skills
Guild Artisan -> +2 Skills, +1 Tool Proficiency
Artificer (Gunsmith) 2 -> +3 Skills, +4 Tool Proficiencies with Expertise
Cleric (Knowledge) 1 -> +2 Skills with Expertise
Rogue (Scout) 6 -> +3 Skills, +4 Expertise, +1 Tool Proficiency
Bard (Lore) 10 -> +4 Skills, +4 Expertise, +1 Tool Proficiency
Skilled Feat: +2 Skills, +1 Tool

For a total of: 18 proficient skills (8 with Expertise), and 8 Tools (4 with Expertise)

[MrFahrenheit]

Do people actually play games like this?
"Hey guys, I have an awesome idea for a character. We might never get to a level where it will work, and I'll be pretty useless for most of (if not all of) the game, but on paper it's awesome!"

Never mind the fact that I've been running a campaign for the last two years, which started at 1, and now sees the PCs at the threshold of level 19. So yeah, games like this happen.

[Ruslan]

V Human (skilled) Rogue 1/Bard (Lore) 3/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Warlock 2 (beguiling influence) does it at 7...

Yes, this guy is a true Jack of All Trades. Ironically, he has a class feature named Jack of All Trades, which is completely useless, as he has no non-proficient skills ...

[DivisibleByZero]

Never mind the fact that I've been running a campaign for the last two years, which started at 1, and now sees the PCs at the threshold of level 19. So yeah, games like this happen.

I wasn't referring to games never getting to that level.
I was referring to the build, that comes on-line at level 17, and the fact that most games never get to that level.
Do people actually play characters, at a real table, when that character isn't going to come "on-line" until level 17?

[MeeposFire]

Yes, this guy is a true Jack of All Trades. Ironically, he has a class feature named Jack of All Trades, which is completely useless, as he has no non-proficient skills ...

Not completely useless remember that Jack of all trades apllies to all ability checks and not just skills. This means it applies to generic checks (like initiative) and tools (which this character is not fully proficient in unless he spends a LOT of money and time to pick them all up).

One less intensive method but yields almost as good results in skill use is rogue11/bard2. You get half prof bonus to all ability checks and treat the minimum roll (yes this checks out by strict RAW and per Sage clarification believe it or not).

Yes the max check will not be quite as high but it will be better in many ways and you will be a very solid character in general.

[Zene]

This is pretty cool. Still room in the OP's build (and most of the suggested builds) to then take Rogue to 11 for Reliable Talent. Which means not only are you proficient in every skill, half-proficient in every ability check (including initiative) and tool check, expertised in a good percentage, and can guidance for small additional boost on top of that; but you also can't roll below a 10 in any of them.

I'm actually playing a variant on this right now. Inspired by TYP's focus on dungeon-crawling: Character concept is a dungeoneer trap specialist and artifact hunter, indiana jones-ish, who's been training his whole life, perfecting his dungeoneering skills. I wanted him to have proficiency and/or expertise in history + arcana (because he's been studying lost treasures and ancient relics), thieves' tools (of course), stealth, perception and investigation (to find those traps). Probably navigator's tools as well, and maybe religion. If he really wanted to be the best in the biz, he'd also need guidance, a way to gain advantage on skill checks (I settled on Enhance Ability), and the ability to disarm traps from a distance (mage hand legerdemain). As I started thinking about how to accomplish this, I realized he'd need to follow a bit of a skill monkey build. Right now he's Rogue 1 / Knowledge Cleric 1 / Bard 1, and he's a blast to play. The plan is to take him to Bard 3 (for expertise and Enhance Ability), then Arcane Trickster 3 (for remote trap disarming). After that I'm not sure, but will probably continue in Rogue to 11 for Reliable Talent, then Knowledge Cleric 2, then finishing up (if he makes it that high) in Bard. Picking up the Lucky and Dungeon Delver feats ASAP.

[Pichu]

AHA! I HAVE RETURNED! I bring with me two builds: One for 18 expertise and one for 4 tool expertise. Both give you all 18 skill proficiencies.

WARNING! 2 HIGH LEVEL BUILDS AHEAD! PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

#1: All 18 expertises @ 20
Bard (Lore) 10/Rogue (Scout) 6/Wizard (Lore) 2/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Psion v2 1
-Same build as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21903846&postcount=7) except you go Bard 10 for an additional 2 expertises, two feats (Alchemist, Burglar, Gourmand, and Master of Disguise) for 2 tool expertise, and choose Charlatan for 2 tool proficiencies.

TOTAL: 18 skill proficiencies, 18 skill expertises, 3 tool proficiency, and 2 tool expertise

#2: Tool expertises @ 20
Rogue (Scout) 6/Bard (Lore) 4/Artificer (Gunsmith) 2 or 4/Warlock (GOO) 2 or 4/Wizard (Lore) 2 or 4/Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Psion v2 1
-Half-elf, Charlatan, and skilled feat (Rogue 6) give 7 skill proficiencies & 2 tool proficiencies
-Start Artificer: 4 tool proficiencies & expertise in them
-Rogue: 6 expertise
-Bard: 4 skills (one from M/C) and 2 expertise
-Warlock: You get 4 proficiencies (Beguiling Influence & Caiphon's Beacon)
-Wizard: 4 expertise
-Cleric: 2 skills and 2 expertise
-Psion: 2 skills and 2 expertise
-Level 4 in Bard and Wizard, Artificer, or Warlock: 2 feats from Alchemist, Burglar, Gourmand, and Master of Disguise

TOTAL: 18 (19, but one goes to tools) skill proficiencies, 16 skill expertises, 7 tool proficiencies, and 6 tool expertises (2 from feats)

NOTE: (Somewhere) its says that if you have the same proficiency twice, you can choose another iirc

Disclaimer: I may have messed up the additions there

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'm actually playing the Rogue 3 (Scout)/Cleric 1 (Knowledge)/Bard 3 (Lore) build and just hit level 7 with it. Every skill proficiency, eight Expertise (Survival, Nature, two other knowledge skills, four free, which I think are in Stealth, Insight, and two social skills), and three tool proficiencies (thieves' tools, plus disguise kit and forgery kit from Charlatan), plus Guidance from the Cleric to add 1d4 whenever humanly possible.

I made the conscious choice to avoid Warlock early, because it was really out of character for... Well... My character, to pursue those avenues. Ironically, as of the very last session we had, that is no longer the case, so I might look at Warlock to round out the build soon. :smalltongue:


AHA! I HAVE RETURNED! I bring with me two builds: One for 18 expertise and one for 4 tool expertise. Both give you all 18 skill proficiencies.

#1: All 18 expertises
Bard (Lore) 10/Rogue (Scout) 6/Wizard (Lore) 2/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1/Psion v2 1
-Same build as this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=21903846&postcount=7) except you go Bard 10 for an additional 2 expertises.

Lore Wizard overlaps with Knowledge Cleric and Scout Rogue, with no provision that you can change the subject of your expertise. This build caps at 15 Expertise unless the DM specifically allows you to shift Expertise around (resulting in either the Lore Wizard or the Knowledge Cleric to give you expertise in something like Athletics or Sleight of Hand).

I know the rule which lets you select an open proficiency if you are already proficient in something a class ability gives you, but I don't believe this extends to expertise.

[Pichu]

I know the rule which lets you select an open proficiency if you are already proficient in something a class ability gives you, but I don't believe this extends to expertise.

Ehhh, I just assumed it was the same. 'Cause I'm lazy :smalltongue:

I did ask this question on r/dndnext (https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/644snm/expertise_question/) just recently though...

[Hrugner]

A mystic with nomadic mind seems to cover this slightly faster. Sure they aren't proficient all at once, but they can be as an action.

[QUARE]

The earliest I can get all 18 skills is level 6 with this:

V. Human: 1 Skill
Skilled Feat: 3 Skills
Background: 2 Skills

1 Rogue: 4 Skills
3 Lore Bard: 4 Skills
1 Knowledge Cleric: 2 Skills
1 Nomad Mystic: 2 Skills

1+3+2+4+4+2+2= 18 skills

6 of the skills are with Expertise. Also with the Charlatan background we would have proficiency in Thieves Tools, Disguise Kit, Forgery Kit, a musical instrument, light and medium armor, and shields. Are stats aren't great at 8/14/14/13/13/14 after racial bonuses, but that's the price you pay.

[Fayd]

I mean with enough cash and a permissive DM you can do it at level 1, any class.

You can use downtime to train skills, after all, and that's DMG (or players handbook, I can't remember) material, no UA required.

[KorvinStarmast]

So in my campaign, I've banned vhumans That makes little sense to me, since vhuman overcomes the inherent advantage at low levels that all other races get with their special features. (As in 2/3 of them get dark vision ...)

[DivisibleByZero]

So in my campaign, I've banned vhumansThat makes little sense to me, since vhuman overcomes the inherent advantage at low levels that all other races get with their special features. (As in 2/3 of them get dark vision ...)

I combined the two, and only have one version of humans.
+2 to one stat of your choice
+1 to three different stats of your choice
any one (half) feat which offers a +1 to a stat, but does not gain that +1
one skill of your choice

Limiting the feats to half-feats only alleviates the strain of a 1st level character obtaining one of the best feats, which are always a huge pain to balance at low levels.

[Naanomi]

I mean with enough cash and a permissive DM you can do it at level 1, any class.

You can use downtime to train skills, after all, and that's DMG (or players handbook, I can't remember) material, no UA required.
Only tools and languages. No 'real' proficiencies

[DivisibleByZero]

Only tools and languages. No 'real' proficiencies

My copy of the DMG says otherwise. I seem to remember that line specifying a tool previously as well. I almost posted as such myself earlier, but when I dbl-checked, it appears to not be true.
Maybe it was errata'd?

A character who agrees to training as a reward must
spend downtime with the trainer (see chapter 6 for
more information on downtime activities). In exchange,
the character is guaranteed to receive a special benefit.
Possible training benefits include the following:
-- The character gains inspiration daily at dawn for ld4 + 6 days.
-- The character gains proficiency in a skill.
-- The character gains a feat.

[MrFahrenheit]

I wasn't referring to games never getting to that level.
I was referring to the build, that comes on-line at level 17, and the fact that most games never get to that level.
Do people actually play characters, at a real table, when that character isn't going to come "on-line" until level 17?

Comes fully online skill-wise at 17, since bard 10 is where they'd get to turn two last proficiencies into expertises. Combat-wise, it was up since the start, only got a boost around CL 7-10 when it gets lightning arrow through additional magic secrets.

[Naanomi]

My copy of the DMG says otherwise. I seem to remember that line specifying a tool previously as well. I almost posted as such myself earlier, but when I dbl-checked, it appears to not be true.
Maybe it was errata'd?

A character who agrees to training as a reward must
spend downtime with the trainer (see chapter 6 for
more information on downtime activities). In exchange,
the character is guaranteed to receive a special benefit.
Possible training benefits include the following:
-- The character gains inspiration daily at dawn for ld4 + 6 days.
-- The character gains proficiency in a skill.
-- The character gains a feat.
That is from the 'rewards' section where boones and the like are listed and pretty deep in DM whim territory. Training as a downtime activity is tools and languages only... if your DM gives free reign to use the rules above then I'd go train every Feat first (for the stat boosts if nothing else!)

[Klorox]

I really don't see the need for all of the multiclassing.
If you want to be a skill monkey, and still be able to contribute, Warlock 2 / Lore Bard X is your best bet.
Jack of All Trades covers any skills you aren't proficient with.
Warlock 2 gets you reliable at-will damage.
Primarility Bard levels means you aren't hurting much on your casting, like all that multiclassing will do.
All of that multiclassing is just wasted, IMNSHO. It's a gimmick.

I agree.

The only thing I'd slightly change is I'd consider one level of knowledge cleric. It totally fits the theme for a know it all.

[DivisibleByZero]

That is from the 'rewards' section where boones and the like are listed and pretty deep in DM whim territory. Training as a downtime activity is tools and languages only... if your DM gives free reign to use the rules above then I'd go train every Feat first (for the stat boosts if nothing else!)

Ah, good catch.
I knew I saw that somewhere, I just looked in the wrong place. The one in the PHB does indeed say language/tool only, just like we remembered.

[Fayd]

Huh. I could have sworn...

Oh well, my bad. Good catch!

[Vogonjeltz]

I can't remember a thread like that in the whole time I've been here, and the point is not to make an efficient character, but to find the most efficient way to get as much skills as high as possible. I think you might have read it the wrong way.

I'd contest the efficiency claim.

In order to meet the multi-class requirements they'd have to have a Con modifier of 0 or -1 (with Strength being the other).
With the classes listed, that puts their HP at about as low as you can get at any given level, making them particularly susceptible to being gibbed before they can come close to the levels required.

It'd be more efficient to have a living character.


NOTE: (Somewhere) its says that if you have the same proficiency twice, you can choose another iirc

PHB 125 "If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead."

So you can't turn a duplicate skill into a tool, if you have 19 sources of skill proficiency, one is wasted.

[Lombra]

I'd contest the efficiency claim.

In order to meet the multi-class requirements they'd have to have a Con modifier of 0 or -1 (with Strength being the other).
With the classes listed, that puts their HP at about as low as you can get at any given level, making them particularly susceptible to being gibbed before they can come close to the levels required.

It'd be more efficient to have a living character.

You and Divisible read it wrong: efficient way to gain proficiencies, not efficient character. I am well aware that a character that has to start with 3 13s is not an efficient combatant, but what I proposed is just an exercise of thought like: "which is the best way to get maximum HP?" or "which is the highest nova damage in one round?".
It's just theorycrafting for fun, and if you don't find it funny it's ok, everyone's different.

[Vogonjeltz]

You and Divisible read it wrong: efficient way to gain proficiencies, not efficient character. I am well aware that a character that has to start with 3 13s is not an efficient combatant, but what I proposed is just an exercise of thought like: "which is the best way to get maximum HP?" or "which is the highest nova damage in one round?".
It's just theorycrafting for fun, and if you don't find it funny it's ok, everyone's different

That would be what's the fastest way to get proficiency in every skill, not the most efficient.

Efficiency - "(especially of a system or machine) achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense."

You agree, there is a ton of wasted expense in the method proposed. If the question had been simply, "Can we get Proficiency in every skill?" I wouldn't have a problem, but you claimed more than that.

In sum: You wrote it wrong, we didn't read it wrong.

Also, in the other two examples you gave, only the second one has an empirical answer. The former is just a subjective judgment call.

[Naanomi]

The V.Human (skilled) 'Rogue (scout) 3/Cleric (knowledge) 2/Mystic (nomad) 1/Revised Ranger 1' path can comfortably be 9/16/14/13/14/8 or something and still be pretty functional stat-wise as an archer-type

In core I'd go V.Human (skilled) Rogue 1/Cleric (knowledge) 2/Warlock 2/Bard (Lore) 3 with 8/14/12/10/14/16

[Arkhios]

It's probably just me, but as a Bard with all skill proficiencies Jack of all Trades would feel slightly obsolete class feature; although I know that there are still quite a few other ability checks that are not exactly skill checks (such as initiative!). But to me, the bit of Jack of all Trades affecting skill checks would feel kinda wasted from my point of view.

[Iamcreative]

That would be what's the fastest way to get proficiency in every skill, not the most efficient.

Efficiency - "(especially of a system or machine) achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense."

You agree, there is a ton of wasted expense in the method proposed. If the question had been simply, "Can we get Proficiency in every skill?" I wouldn't have a problem, but you claimed more than that.

In sum: You wrote it wrong, we didn't read it wrong.

Also, in the other two examples you gave, only the second one has an empirical answer. The former is just a subjective judgment call.

I'm pretty sure adding levels and increasing your CON when the stated goal is moar skills is, by your own definition, not efficient. Since the resources that go to those things are effectivly wasted from the perspective of "proficient in every skill".

[Lombra]

That would be what's the fastest way to get proficiency in every skill, not the most efficient.

Efficiency - "(especially of a system or machine) achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense."

You agree, there is a ton of wasted expense in the method proposed. If the question had been simply, "Can we get Proficiency in every skill?" I wouldn't have a problem, but you claimed more than that.

In sum: You wrote it wrong, we didn't read it wrong.

Also, in the other two examples you gave, only the second one has an empirical answer. The former is just a subjective judgment call.

Achieving maximum productivity, I proposed the "production" of skill proficiencies. A machine that is very efficient at carving metal objects might as well be a terrible machine to brush your teeth, it depends on what you are trying to achieve, efficiency isn't absolute, it's relative to the goal of the machine (in this case, a character).

What I wrote clearly (maybe not so clearly since I'm writing this) states that I was looking for the greatest amount of proficiencies, just because later I asked how you would play such a character doesn't mean that you can read it the other way around and pretend to accomplish the only task that I proposed saying "but it would be a better character", that's not the point.

I am aware that english isn't my first language, but since many people understood what I tried to convey, I assume that my goal to communicate effectively was reached.

[Vaz]

VHuman (Skilled Feat), Folk Hero Background, Lore Bard 3/Monster Hunter Fighter 3/Knowledge Cleric 1/[ANY] Warlock 2/Rogue 11

You get all Skills online by Level 9, A total of 8 Double Proficiencies, Guidance from Cleric Casting, and Reliable Talent, and 3 ASI's. On any skill check you make, with guidance, you have a minimum possible roll of 15, even with a negative skill modifier (Minimum roll = 10, +1 Guidance, +6 Proficiency, -1 Ability Mod), while your Maxed Skills (you can get 1 20 in an ability score) can get a minimum of 22 (10+5+1+6 = 22). You only need a 13 in Dex, Wisdom and Cha. If you don't want to go for Reliable talent (your game might not be going that far ahead, Lore Bard, Monster Hunter Fighter, or a Fey/Hexblade Blade Pact Warlock are legimately decent additional options; Lore Bard = possible 7th level Bard Spells, Monster Hunter Fighter = Extra Attack (2) and Indomitable, Moonbow Archer = Free Magic Weapon, 3*5th level spell slots on a short rest, 3*2nd level spell slots, 4*1st level spell slots, won't need to sleep, and have 120ft Perfect Darkvision and Extra Attack, Hexblade = Hexblade Curse and 50% Miss Chance, Extra Attack.

[Hrugner]

For my contribution. a six level all skills character.

6 v human with skilled and any background.
4 from 1 lvl start rogue
4 from 2 lvl great old one warlock with Cayphon's Beacon and Beguiling Influece.
4 from 3 lvl lore bard

[Naanomi]

For my contribution. a six level all skills character.

6 v human with skilled and any background.
4 from 1 lvl start rogue
4 from 2 lvl great old one warlock with Cayphon's Beacon and Beguiling Influece.
4 from 3 lvl lore bard
Good call on UA warlock, I forgot all about it... several MAD ways to get there by 5th now with that

[Vaz]

A lot of those skills overlap, with not much coverage elsewhere though. Can you get every skill that way?

[Hrugner]

A lot of those skills overlap, with not much coverage elsewhere though. Can you get every skill that way?

Hidden in the backgrounds section of the PHB are rules saying that if you gain a proficiency that you already have, you can exchange it for a different proficiency of the same type. However, using a narrow interpretation that requires that this rule only be used when looking at backgrounds, we exchange our two warlock levels for one mystic nomad and one cleric of knowledge. That adds intelligence and wisdom requirements though, so it's sort of crappy.

Requiring only dex and chr means you can make a variety of builds with this. I'd still prefer just taking a mystic nomad level and calling that good, but always on proficiencies are what was ordered.


Good call on UA warlock, I forgot all about it... several MAD ways to get there by 5th now with that

Yep, replace our 3 bard with 1 nomad 1 knowledge cleric rounds us out to 5. But I'd hate to play the point buy character with 4 13s and no real class synergy.

[Arkhios]

For what it's worth, Scout Fighter (Kits of Old UA) gets proficiency in three skills (or thieves' tools) at 3rd level.