A Shadow Monk Vs a Pact of Tome Warlock

[KittenEV]

So, for reasons too long to explain right now I (as a PC) will be fighting another PC in our party and I really really really need to win the fight. It's all been hyped up so much as this point that there is no other option than to win. All the other party members and our friends have said she'll win and that there is no way a monk can beat a spellcaster.

So, please, guys, how do I win?! I'm not a good strategist and don't have enough experience with D&D to fully use my shadow monk stuff against her pack of the tome warlock stuff effectively.

We're both level 7. I have 1 level in rogue and 6 in shadow monk. She is all warlock. I have really high Dex so I'll probably get first in initiative. We both have an AC of 18. I have a + 2 weapon that deals 1d8 + 6 damage, while she has her spells. My fists also do 1d6 + 4 damage. She has a high strength and charisma and the spell fireball too and she's a teifling so she has hellish rebuke once a day.

I don't know how I'm going to beat her, but I have to.

This is going to be a no holds barred drag out fight btw so anything goes.

Please guys I need your help!

[nickl_2000]

Stun early and often would be the first advice. Then you play shadow games jumping around

[jaappleton]

Stun early and often would be the first advice. Then you play shadow games jumping around

Shadow jumping won't help as Warlocks can see in magical darkness.

Do you know what spells the Warlock has? And what level are you both?

[nickl_2000]

Shadow jumping won't help as Warlocks can see in magical darkness.

Do you know what spells the Warlock has? And what level are you both?

Shadow jumping still gives advantage to your next attack, which will give you the chance to stun. Also that is assuming that the warlock took the invocation to see in magical darkness

[DivisibleByZero]

Stun, grapple, silence so the Warlock can't cast as much, shadow jump to get that sneak attack die when you can, bonus action attack and/or flurry, and honestly you should be able to win this fairly easily.
I don't know who told you that a monk can't take on a caster, but the fact is they are fantastic at locking down casters.

[Lombra]

If she's just a caster and you have proficiency in athletics stun and grapple her, then cast silence, this way she can't cast spells with verbal component and won't be able to target you effectively with eldritch blasts, just don't fight ranged because you really need to hit as often as possible.

PS: it's Pact, not Pack

Edit: shadow jumping is bad for action economy, it gives you advantage on one attack but you forgo one or two unarmed strikes that could stun.

[jaappleton]

Shadow jumping still gives advantage to your next attack, which will give you the chance to stun. Also that is assuming that the warlock took the invocation to see in magical darkness

Fair.

TC, we need more info.

What spells does the Warlock have? What level are you both? What's your AC, what is the Warlocks? HP? Any magic items? Potions of healing? Anything and everything, we need the info. What's their Patron? You don't happen to have anything to make you immune to Force damage, do you?

[KittenEV]

She did take that innovaction because she was sick of my character using darkness as a means to escape when I was running off doing dumb things like bitch slapping the king. lol So yeah, she can see through my darkness.

[jaappleton]

Stun, grapple, silence so the Warlock can't cast as much, shadow jump to get that sneak attack die when you can, bonus action attack and/or flurry, and honestly you should be able to win this fairly easily.
I don't know who told you that a monk can't take on a caster, but the fact is they are fantastic at locking down casters.

This is very true. The fact alone that you have Silence makes you ridiculously good at taking out mages.

The Warlock will likely try to cast Hold Person to lock you down. Casting Silence on them prevents that.

Remember, though, that you'll have to roll Concentration on it whenever they hurt you. So if you get hit with 2 Eldritch Blast rays, that's twice you'll have to roll a Concentration save.

[Submortimer]

All the other party members and our friends have said she'll win and that there is no way a monk can beat a spellcaster.

This is wrong: monks are THE BEST at beating spellcasters.

At level 7, you have three things that will easily win you this fight:

1. Stunning Fist
2. Evasion
3. Flurry of blows

Assuming your warlock friend doesn't pull some bull**** as start the fight in the air, if you win initiative, you're golden.

Round 1: Run up. Step if the wind if need be to get to her. Hit her as many times as possible, and burn Ki to stun her until she fails her save. You can, at most, burn 5 Ki this turn (1 for flurry, 4 for each stunning strike), meaning you have at least one left over.

Her turn: nothing happens, because she cannot take actions or reactions.

Round 2: Burn a ki, swing at her 4 times with advantage on each roll, because she's stunned until the end of the turn. If she's not already dead, stun her again, then hit her three more times on round three.

When she goes unconcious, remind her why spellcasters don't **** with monks.

[Lombra]

As a general thing to keep in mind, this edition is pretty bad at PvP, so often those who win initiative are those who win the contest, if you fail the save versus hold person you are done, and if she fails the save against your stunning strikes you win.

[jaappleton]

This is wrong: monks are THE BEST at beating spellcasters.

At level 7, you have three things that will easily win you this fight:

1. Stunning Fist
2. Evasion
3. Flurry of blows

Assuming your warlock friend doesn't pull some bull**** as start the fight in the air, if you win initiative, you're golden.

Round 1: Run up. Step if the wind if need be to get to her. Hit her as many times as possible, and burn Ki to stun her until she fails her save. You can, at most, burn 5 Ki this turn (1 for flurry, 4 for each stunning strike), meaning you have at least one left over.

Her turn: nothing happens, because she cannot take actions or reactions.

Round 2: Burn a ki, swing at her 4 times with advantage on each roll, because she's stunned until the end of the turn. If she's not already dead, stun her again, then hit her three more times on round three.

When she goes unconcious, remind her why spellcasters don't **** with monks.

Isn't Step of the Wind a bonus action, thus preventing you from using either Flurry or Martial Arts? Though the need for using it should be minimal, as I doubt they're starting so far apart that the Monk's already high movement speel wouldn't be enough.

[KittenEV]

Fair.

TC, we need more info.

What spells does the Warlock have? What level are you both? What's your AC, what is the Warlocks? HP? Any magic items? Potions of healing? Anything and everything, we need the info. What's their Patron? You don't happen to have anything to make you immune to Force damage, do you?


Ok, got her character sheet. She's my sister :P

Tielfing Warlock, Speed 30ft

Her spell save is 14 DC. She spell attack is 6. Pact of the tome with a Fiend. I assume we'll be using healing potions and whatnot. She also have a pearl of power.

Stats:
Str 16, Dex 7, Con 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 16

49 health in total. AC 18

7 levels of Warlock

Cantrips:
Eldritch Blast
Minor Illusion
Prestidigitation
Dancing Lights
Blade Ward
Thorn Whip
Darkness
Thaumaturgy

Spells:
Fireball
Hex
Witch Bolt
Cloud of Daggers
Misty Step
Dispel Magic
Major Image
Blight

____________________________________

My Character: Wood Elf Shadow Monk/Rogue Speed 50ft

HP 57, AC 18

Stats:
STR 11, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10

6 levels of Monk/ 1 level of Rogue

Fists 1d6 +4
+2 Weapon 1d8 +6

Abilities:
Flurry of Blows
Stunning Strike
Darkness
Silence
Sneak Attack
Shadow Step
Patient Defense
Step of The Wind
Deflect Missiles
Pass without trace
Minor illusion

[Zilong]

Ah, sibling wars, makes a lot more sense now.

Anyway, as people have said, unless she took resilient con at some point you're almost guaranteed to get at least one stun off which is basically game over for most single entities, caster or no, against a monk as that first stun leads to cascading stunlock.

[Specter]

Get up close (use Step of the Wind) if you need) and cast Silence. If she tries anything cute, stun with the opportunity attack. Then stun forever until death.

[jaappleton]

Her 'Darkness' isn't a Cantrip. Its a second level spell.

And she's only got 2, and doesn't have Hold Person.

Frankly, once you cast Silence, I'd be shocked if she did win.

In fact.... Even Eldritch Blast has a Verbal component.

Yeah. You should absolutely wreck this Warlock.

[nickl_2000]

Ok, got her character sheet. She's my sister :P

Tielfing Warlock, Speed 30ft

Her spell save is 14 DC. She spell attack is 6. Pact of the tome with a Fiend. I assume we'll be using healing potions and whatnot. She also have a pearl of power.

Stats:
Str 16, Dex 7, Con 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 16

49 health in total. AC 18

7 levels of Warlock

Cantrips:
Eldritch Blast
Minor Illusion
Prestidigitation
Dancing Lights
Blade Ward
Thorn Whip
Darkness
Thaumaturgy

Spells:
Fireball
Hex
Witch Bolt
Cloud of Daggers
Misty Step
Dispel Magic
Major Image
Blight

____________________________________

My Character: Wood Elf Shadow Monk/Rogue Speed 50ft

HP 57, AC 18

Stats:
STR 11, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10

6 levels of Monk/ 1 level of Rogue

Fists 1d6 +4
+2 Weapon 1d8 +6

Abilities:
Flurry of Blows
Stunning Strike
Darkness
Silence
Sneak Attack
Shadow Step
Patient Defense
Step of The Wind
Deflect Missiles
Pass without trace
Minor illusion

An 18 AC with a 7 dex? How the heck is she managing that?

[jaappleton]

An 18 AC with a 7 dex? How the heck is she managing that?

I'm going to assume the Dex is a 17 and it's a typo.

[nickl_2000]

I'm going to assume the Dex is a 17 and it's a typo.

That would make so much more sense

[KittenEV]

That would make so much more sense

I have a cloak of protection. +1 to AC and saving throws :3

[jaappleton]

I have a cloak of protection. +1 to AC and saving throws :3

He was asking about the Warlock's.

[Dudewithknives]

Unless the fight starts at more than 100 feet and she wins initiative you should win easily. Her spell selections is very bad.

Also the fact that you have very good gear for your level should really help.

If it was a well made warlock vs a well made monk I would lean toward warlock simply because of the spell options

As this stands the only way you lose is if you roll very, very badly.

[KittenEV]

He was asking about the Warlock's.

Oh, I'm not sure about that. She does have only a 7 in DEX. She started out as a fighter, but wasn't having fun so our DM let her change over to Warlock completely (no multi-class and had her keep her Stats) and let her keep a few tidbits from fighter like profiency in weapons and armor and summoing scimitars that she never uses. She's got heavy armor too.

[jaappleton]

Oh, I'm not sure about that. She does have only a 7 in DEX. She started out as a fighter, but wasn't having fun so our DM let her change over to Warlock completely (no multi-class and had her keep her Stats) and let her keep a few tidbits from fighter like profiency in weapons and armor and summoing scimitars that she never uses. She's got heavy armor too.

Warlock with free heavy armor. And she's still going to get decimated.

Plus a Dex penalty, and therefore a penalty to initiative.

Cast Silence and Stun away.

Really, if you lose half your health, you should feel ashamed.

[Dudewithknives]

Warlock with free heavy armor. And she's still going to get decimated.

Plus a Dex penalty, and therefore a penalty to initiative.

Cast Silence and Stun away.

Really, if you lose half your health, you should feel ashamed.

If she had correct spell selections and cantrips it would be more even.

Her spell selections are horrible.

[DivisibleByZero]

I was going to ask how a single classed Warlock had 8 cantrips at level 7, but now it sounds like she was an EK, and the DM let her keep those cantrips.

[KittenEV]

I was going to ask how a single classed Warlock had 8 cantrips at level 7, but now it sounds like she was an EK, and the DM let her keep those cantrips.

Correct :)

[Citan]

She did take that innovaction because she was sick of my character using darkness as a means to escape when I was running off doing dumb things like bitch slapping the king. lol So yeah, she can see through my darkness.
Lol. That is a funny story for sure. Talk about a boomerang effect. XD

Ok, got her character sheet. She's my sister :P

Tielfing Warlock, Speed 30ft

Her spell save is 14 DC. She spell attack is 6. Pact of the tome with a Fiend. I assume we'll be using healing potions and whatnot. She also have a pearl of power.

Stats:
Str 16, Dex 7, Con 15, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 16

49 health in total. AC 18

7 levels of Warlock

Cantrips:
Eldritch Blast
Minor Illusion
Prestidigitation
Dancing Lights
Blade Ward
Thorn Whip
Darkness
Thaumaturgy

Spells:
Fireball
Hex
Witch Bolt
Cloud of Daggers
Misty Step
Dispel Magic
Major Image
Blight

____________________________________

My Character: Wood Elf Shadow Monk/Rogue Speed 50ft

HP 57, AC 18

Stats:
STR 11, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 16, CHA 10

6 levels of Monk/ 1 level of Rogue

Fists 1d6 +4
+2 Weapon 1d8 +6

Abilities:
Flurry of Blows
Stunning Strike
Darkness
Silence
Sneak Attack
Shadow Step
Patient Defense
Step of The Wind
Deflect Missiles
Pass without trace
Minor illusion
Well...
That was dirty. You have no shame.
Good, it means you have even greater chance of winning. XD

Ok, so, barring the question about "how can she have 18 AC with these stats (it's beyond the point so whatever")...

You cannot count on Darkness. Nor Silence in fact (especially since Silence is inamovible). Even if you win Initiative, your priority should be to stun her ASAP (it will have the same benefits as Silence, and more).

I hope you took Expertise in Athletics, although even without as long as you are proficient you have a decent chance to succeed.
Because I really don't think a *Warlock* would ever take proficiency in Athletics, although maybe I'm just blind.

Reason behind this is that by Shoving her prone you will gain advantage on your remaining attacks, which will be necessary.

So, depending on distance and Initiative.
1. Her being within normal speed reach
a) You win Initiative: just go to her, Attack, 1st Shove prone, then weapon attack, bonus action Flurry of Blows, blow Ki until you Stunned her.
Turns after: grapple her and continue attacking while using Ki to stun. Honestly you should be finished in three turns max.

b) You lost Initiative:

If she tries to get away from you and is looking for a long-run fight by staying at range (so on this turn you can't reach her until you spend ki on Dashing), cast Darkness on a rock that you will then throw towards her. Just don't do anything special this turn, conserve your ki while closing in towards both your stone and her (so she just doesn't understand what you are trying to do).
On turns after, close up to the stone, take it, throw it into her direction, use Shadow Step when the stone is close to her, use remaining movement to come into melee reach.
Of course, since you don't see into magical darkness you'd have to plan your throw and time your step accordingly (you don't want cancelling yourself this advantage? ;)

The benefit of this tactic is to nullify any thing she could do to keep at range including Misty Step.

But honestly, I don't think she will do that: you just can't outrun a Monk unless you have proper tools at your disposal, and she doesn't have any (Misty Step on someone with 2 slots is a trap). If she just moves, you will catch up easily. If she Dash, she can't do anything else.

I think she will go with the usual Hex + Eldricht Blast (Fireball would also be a trap: you have high DEX, proficiency, and Evasion) or open with Blight.

Because it's her only decent attack options: casting Witch Bolt without good concentration, Spell Sniper and Dash as bonus action is useless in general, and useless against a Monk (you would just have to Dash once). Cloud of Daggers don't move.

Another thing she coud do is try and use Major Image to divert you by making an image of herself, provided the environment provide her a chance to substract from your view and you don't metagame, so you goes far away from her then she blast Eldricht Blast as long as she can before you come back (which will take 2 turns at most).

2. You start far away from each other.
Either use Dash as bonus action if you feel confident, or use the Darkness tactic during the first turn.

TL;DR: Her only decent chance to win is to get Initiative first then either move away while landing Eldricht Blasting, and on second turn avoiding stun so she can try and land Blight on her next turn.
Blight has average 36, max 64, so you would need very bad luck on the first one to fall, although it would certainly put you at risk.

As for you... Just go into melee as soon and quickly as possible if need be using Darkness (+ Dodge if needed) on first turn then move + throw + Shadow Step to then gain "free dash + advantage".

Once in range Shove her prone then use every resource available to attack & Stun her: cannot speak and no action (incapacitated) so no spell anyways.
Next turn, start by Grappling so she cannot stand once stun ends.
Eldricht Blast would be at disadvantage because melee, even Thorn Whips is at disadvantage because she is prone.

Her only option left is to cast Blight, provided she still has a slot, you didn't use remaining ki to stun her another turn (or DM is lenient enough to allow verbal component while stunned), or plain downing her during your second turn.

With your damage ranging from 20 to 35 depending on luck and number of attacks, you should be finished in 3 turns max.

I honestly don't know you could actually lose this fight, unless you suffer a string of bad luck (lose Initiative, sister hits spell/attack). Other casters, even Warlocks, may have a chance.
But she is just not built as needed to have any other reasonable option than try and flee away while distracting you. ;)

For example, just an upcast Armor of Agathys would have put you in a serious situation: because damage you deal is variable but damage you take is fixed, at best you would have taken her down with yourself close to death, at worst you would have killed yourself. Unless you just contended with daggers thrown attacks (provided you had some), but then you cannot use your magic weapon, nor Stunning Strike. So it would have been a fight of attrition between 2 daggers + Dodge action on one side, Eldricht Blast / Blight on the other side. You would probably have lost it.

Kind of same situation with a Fire Shield, or even worse because no limit in fact.

Could have been hilariously bad for you if one of those paired with Expeditious Retreat 50 feet vs 30+30...
- f you Dashed to catch up to her, you could only do two melee Attacks, hurting yourself in the process.
Then even with her stunned (so she cannot do anything while you pummel her), you would still sustain a chance to kill yourself.
- Otherwise, she would distance you little by little while draining your life with Eldricht Blast.

You are lucky she took choices so far from optimization. ;)

[jaappleton]

Correct :)

"You can't beat her. She has a lot of spells" -Your group
"Yeah, but all of them suck." -Us

[Ziegander]

At least you have the to-hit and damage on lock. And you even have 8 more hit points, which is great. A +6 spell attack vs +9 melee gives you 15% more hits than her and your hits already deal more damage (1d10+3 ~ 8.5 vs 1d8+6 ~ 10.5). You have a 55% chance to hit her while she only has a 40% to hit you. Even a Fireball, one of two of her spells, will only average 28 damage on you, and that's if you fail your Dexterity save (your +8 vs her DC of 14? 3/4 of the time you pass for 14 average damage).

She can't Fly or even Gaseous Form (doesn't have the spells), so Misty Step is her only defense, and she can only cast it twice. Your sustainable damage per round is 1d8+6, 1d8+6, plus 1d6+4, an average of 28.5 and 55% of that is 15.675, meaning, if you spend 0 Ki, as long as you can attack her, you wrap this up in five rounds, and that's assuming she casts Misty Step twice (sadly, three rounds of non-Flurry attacks is only 47.025 damage).

In those five rounds, her response can be Eldritch Blast a lot. If she's got Hex up, then she's (probably) only got four rounds to live. Her damage per round either looks like 1d10+3 plus 1d10+3, an average of 17 and 40% of that is only 6.8 so in five rounds she's barely knocked you past half health, OR 1d10+3 plus 1d6, and 1d10+3 plus 1d6, an average of 24 and 40% of that is only 9.6, which means in four rounds, with Hex, she can deal you ever so slightly more damage, but you're still kicking plenty hard (especially considering you haven't even tried to use Ki yet).

HOWEVER... Eh, I'm starting to think the Warlock is just going to win because of DM favoritism. She has four bonus cantrips and heavy armor that a Warlock should not have at 7th level. What else does she have that we don't know about? If it weren't for the fact that I now know the DM is just giving her extra abilities and class features, I would have said a Shadow Monk has a very good chance against any 7th level Warlock let alone your sister's, but now... I don't like the looks of this. Good luck, OP.

[KittenEV]

You guys are all awesome. Thank you! :D I'm feeling much more prepared and confident now.

And just so you guys know so you don't think I'm being underhanded by looking at her sheet, she's looked at mine too and knows all my stuff as well.

[nickl_2000]

Eh, I'm starting to think the Warlock is just going to win because of DM favoritism. She has four bonus cantrips and heavy armor. What else does she have that we don't know about? If it weren't for the fact that I now know the DM is just giving her extra abilities and class features, I would have said a Shadow Monk has a very good chance against a 7th level Warlock, but now... I don't like the looks of this. Good luck, OP.

Four bonus cantrips and two bonus feats it appears. Unless she also can use shields

[DivisibleByZero]

"You can't beat her. She has a lot of spells" -Your group
"Yeah, but all of them suck." -Us

Even if they were chosen well, unless things go horribly awry, a monk beats down on a warlock 1v1, pun fully intended.
This is what you were made for.

[SharkForce]

don't forget stealth. depending on your build, i'm guessing you can get your stealth check to somewhere between +13 and +20 (using pass without trace). and she has wisdom 11. if she has no proficiency in perception and you actually do have +4 dex modifier and expertise in stealth, she literally cannot spot you even when actively looking. when not actively looking, your DC to stay hidden (provided you have some sort of decently obscured area) is 13... which you literally cannot fail at even if you are on the low end of possible bonus. as a wood elf, you also enjoy the ability to hide in natural terrain, so even if she can see through darkness you can probably still get very close.

note that you can potentially give yourself hiding places to stand behind by using minor illusion, which has no vocal components so you should be able to continue to hide. seeing through your illusions either requires her to move up to them (which is likely to go poorly for her, because that means she's close enough for you to reach her) or spend an action examining it in detail. which is an investigation check against your spell DC, and is likely to cost her actions.

remember, you should check through the spell list and make a note of which specify a creature you can see as the target or which have verbal components. hopefully you trust your fellow players to not cheat, but in the heat of the moment it is quite common to forget things. things like "misty step has a verbal component", for example, or "dark one's own luck doesn't work on attack rolls" (and you should also prepare yourself similiary regarding your own spells and abilities, including how much ki you can spend. you should also be prepared to mention that your spells granted by your level 3 ability have no components, and thus will not break stealth because they make no sound).

you will also want to take into account any feats she might have, invocations, and similar.

also, remember, you are also a rogue... so use that to your advantage as well, if possible. if you can prepare the field in advance with animal traps or similar, this fight will be much more easy... once she's stuck in place, a silence spell will make it very hard for her to win, since that removes basically all of her spells. also consider options like disarming her of her focus or spell component pouch, if possible. possibly while hiding you can pick her pockets :)

but seriously, keep track of your ki. in a tough spot, don't be afraid to use ki to dodge or something either, if you must. stunning blow is amazing, and if at all possible you should use it, but there are a lot of cool things you can do with your ki... but you probably can't do every single one of them.

[Citan]

Frankly, once you cast Silence, I'd be shocked if she did win.

In fact.... Even Eldritch Blast has a Verbal component.

Yeah. You should absolutely wreck this Warlock.


Warlock with free heavy armor. And she's still going to get decimated.

Plus a Dex penalty, and therefore a penalty to initiative.

Cast Silence and Stun away.

Really, if you lose half your health, you should feel ashamed.


Stun, grapple, silence so the Warlock can't cast as much, shadow jump to get that sneak attack die when you can, bonus action attack and/or flurry, and honestly you should be able to win this fairly easily.
I don't know who told you that a monk can't take on a caster, but the fact is they are fantastic at locking down casters.
Guys, seriously, stop with that "Silence" reflex, it is as bad as an advice could get.

- It takes an action and it is not deemed a "Martial Art" nor a "special Attack" so no free bonus action weapon attack, nor Flurry of Blows: you just did nothing this turn.
- It is inamovible: so it is utterly useless in fight as long as your enemy can move at least 20 feet away.

So, if you cast if in the first turn, you basically wasted your action: even if you were in move range, you have no right to do anything with your bonus action, so you cannot even Grapple.

If you cast it once during a turn during which she is stunned, you doubly wasted your action unless you managed to stun her "early enough" in your last string of attacks to spare one for a Grapple or Shove.
And even in this case, you trade 2 more Ki and your whole turn for just a "no verbal components", while you could use this 2 ki on making stun last one more turn while dealing damage, or just try and finish her off on a 4 attacks string.

Also, Silence is especially useless here since the Stunning Strike applies the "stunned" condition: stunned = can't move and incapacitated, can speak faintly.
Incapacitated = can't take actions or reactions.

So the only spell she could ever cast is Misty Step, which would free her from your grasp indeed (and make your Silence area totally useless by the way), but only 30 feet away (still can't move). On your next turn, just use normal speed and repeat process. This would just be a waste of spells.

Just move, Shove then Attack/Stun, Grapple, Attack (Stun), finish her off.

Even if they were chosen well, unless things go horribly awry, a monk beats down on a warlock 1v1, pun fully intended.
This is what you were made for.
Sorry, absolutely not a given. This is just a normal Shadow Monk against a very "bad" Warlock.
Confer my previous post: any proper Warlock would have at least 1, maybe two spells among a wide selection, that would make a win very difficult or at least very costly on Monk side: Armor of Agathys, Hold Person, Fire Shield, Fear, Fly, Plant Groth/Greater Invisibility (Fey), Darkness, Blindness (Fiend).

And in fact Shadow Monk is probably one of the worse archetype against any normally built Warlock as long as the latter took Devil's Sight (which seems a pretty common occurence), otherwise it's a reasonably good choice if you can prepare.

Then Long Death Monk (fear is useful generally, not much against Blight or similar spells XD).

Open Hand could at least use free Shove to spare some Ki to spend on move/defense.

4E would have a net advantage if he had the good idea to grab either "Air blast" or Burning Hands.

Sun Soul would laugh away as he unleash his radiant rays.

Sun Soul would laugh away,

[SharkForce]

Guys, seriously, stop with that "Silence" reflex, it is as bad as an advice could get.

- It takes an action and it is not deemed a "Martial Art" nor a "special Attack" so no free bonus action weapon attack, nor Flurry of Blows: you just did nothing this turn.
- It is inamovible: so it is utterly useless in fight as long as your enemy can move at least 20 feet away.

So, if you cast if in the first turn, you basically wasted your action: even if you were in move range, you have no right to do anything with your bonus action, so you cannot even Grapple.

If you cast it once during a turn during which she is stunned, you doubly wasted your action unless you managed to stun her "early enough" in your last string of attacks to spare one for a Grapple or Shove.
And even in this case, you trade 2 more Ki and your whole turn for just a "no verbal components", while you could use this 2 ki on making stun last one more turn while dealing damage, or just try and finish her off on a 4 attacks string.

Also, Silence is especially useless here since the Stunning Strike applies the "stunned" condition: stunned = can't move and incapacitated, can speak faintly.
Incapacitated = can't take actions or reactions.

So the only spell she could ever cast is Misty Step, which would free her from your grasp indeed (and make your Silence area totally useless by the way), but only 30 feet away (still can't move). On your next turn, just use normal speed and repeat process. This would just be a waste of spells.

Just move, Shove then Attack/Stun, Grapple, Attack (Stun), finish her off.

or you could be standing next to her in the silence spell, where she can't misty step because it has a verbal component, and has to worry about opportunity attacks if she tries to move away. and which you might have potentially trapped her in by grappling or some other means (traps, dead end ally, etc). that's a possibility too. it does need something more than just the silence, but it absolutely can work.

[DivisibleByZero]

She couldn't carry Misty Step, because stunned applying incapacitated means she can't take actions, which also means she can't take bonus actions.
I'm not saying cast it immediately, but if the terrain accommodates then it might be useful.

[Citan]

or you could be standing next to her in the silence spell, where she can't misty step because it has a verbal component, and has to worry about opportunity attacks if she tries to move away. and which you might have potentially trapped her in by grappling or some other means (traps, dead end ally, etc). that's a possibility too. it does need something more than just the silence, but it absolutely can work.

No. Just no.
Do the maths guys, think! Or read my post, I did it for you. :)
It's plain worse to count on a Silence than just stun and hit. In this context I mean. Of course in different situations if may be worth. But you cannot just expect you will have some natural environment chokepoint or trap to use. XD


She couldn't carry Misty Step, because stunned applying incapacitated means she can't take actions, which also means she can't take bonus actions.
I'm not saying cast it immediately, but if the terrain accommodates then it might be useful.
Are you sure?
That seemed the most logical understanding to me, but I saw recently some threads when guys argued that since by RAW incapacitated didn't prevent bonus action, any feature that didn't rely on taking an action first was OK (so including spells).

Or course as I said, it would require, in addition to that, that DM agrees the verbal components can be sustained which is not a certainty (I honestly wouldn't know which way would be the closest to RAW/RAI, considering the neighbouring Paralyzed condition which states black on whit that you cannot speak at all).

If you are right it just stresses further my point: Stun is enough from start to finish, Grappling being just an icing on the cake.

[DivisibleByZero]

Anything that prevents you from taking an action also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
It's the rules. I'm surprised no one cited it if there was a whole thread about it.

[jaappleton]

Anything that prevents you from taking an action also prevents you from taking a bonus action.
It's the rules. I'm surprised no one cited it if there was a whole thread about it.

Yeah, wasn't that my thread? Spiritual Weapon, unconscious?

[8wGremlin]

Also this isn't A Shadow Monk Vs a Pact of Tome Warlock

it's A Shadow Monk Vs a Pact of Tome Warlock + some fighter proficiencies, Ek cantrips.
having said that. Stun all the way.

[mvpmack]

Also important for the thread: he's a wood elf monk, so misty step + 30ft move doesn't get her out of his movement range, especially if he uses shadow jump.

Shadow jump gives advantage on his next melee attack, which qualifies him for sneak attack.

Shove isn't going to be very viable; she has a str 16. We can't see skill proficiencies but athletics won't really help.

A big question is definitely whether his magic weapon is considered a monk weapon; if it isn't, he is better off using fists to apply stunning fist. I assume it is but it's D8, so I'm sort of unsure.

Either way, I think the monk wins even if the warlock wins initiative because she doesn't have any way of instantly beating him, but he has 2-3 opportunities to stun each round and 6 ki points total. Round 4-5 get a little dicey when ki for stunning fist dries up. He should probably only spend ki on stunning fist.

[Jerrykhor]

I was going to ask how a single classed Warlock had 8 cantrips at level 7, but now it sounds like she was an EK, and the DM let her keep those cantrips.

No, she's a Tome lock, they get 3 extra cantrips, and shes a Tiefling so she gets free Thaumaturgy. Darkness is not a cantrip, so add the warlock's base cantrips of 3 would be a total of 7, which is correct.

Looks like she's a total nab. I mean c'mon, Witchbolt? Really?

One important thing to note: Stunning her sounds like a good tactic, but beware of Dark One's Own Luck, which she can use to add a d10 to her saves.

[Misterwhisper]

No, she's a Tome lock, they get 3 extra cantrips, and shes a Tiefling so she gets free Thaumaturgy. Darkness is not a cantrip, so add the warlock's base cantrips of 3 would be a total of 7, which is correct.

Looks like she's a total nab. I mean c'mon, Witchbolt? Really?

Also, Thorn Whip, and blade ward.

No: hellish rebuke, armor of Agathys, or even Hunger of Hadar

You will win, but is it because her character sucks, not because yours is good.

[KittenEV]

Also, Thorn Whip, and blade ward.

No: hellish rebuke, armor of Agathys, or even Hunger of Hadar

You will win, but is it because her character sucks, not because yours is good.

She does have hellish rebuke as a racial feature because of teifling.

[skaddix]

Yeah her spell selection does her no favors.

Fly alone would change the game so to speak.

With it the shadow monk would be screwed.

Course starting distance matters as well I suppose.

[Corran]

If she casts hex on you before the fight starts, and she targets you dex skills with hex, she will give you disadvantage on the initiative. So be mindful of any dirty tricks like that she might try to pull off. Warlocks are tricky.

[Jerrykhor]

If she casts hex on you before the fight starts, and she targets you dex skills with hex, she will give you disadvantage on the initiative. So be mindful of any dirty tricks like that she might try to pull off. Warlocks are tricky.

I'd be happy if she actually did that. She's got no lockdown, and the only threatening spell she has is Blight, which cannot kill him in 1 round. Once its his turn, his nova would be potentially deadly, the only problem is the 18 AC, which she is lucky to have. Otherwise, with his +9 to attack, he would have no problem bursting her down.

[DeathEatsCurry]

Forget you're a Shadow Monk, Stun often, and try to Nova them as hard as possible with Flurry. During their turn, pray that you suddenly turn into an Open Hand Monk. If allowed, try to start the fight hiding. Don't waste resources or Teleport until you're out of Flurry. Flurry just does more expected damage, and the quicker they're dead, the better it is. Alternatively, go for the opposite approach, play defensive until they run out of spells since Warlocks are typically low on spell slots to compensate for recharging on short rests. Only do this is you're confident their at-will prowess is ****, and you can weather the storm until they run out.

Also Stunning Fist is your best ability, never forget that. It's so good it practically obsoletes your subclass.