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View Full Version : Old School Help with a home-brew. Some questions that need answering.



vgunn
2017-04-11, 06:10 PM
Okay, I've been working on something for a while now and want to make sure it is sound. Try to keep the hiccups to a minimum.

Lets assume for this thread that this is a design similar to B/X and other simple D&D iterations.

System mechanics:

Every character has seven scores. There are three stats, three saves, and one lucky number. Roll 3d6 seven times and then decide on where to put each result. Higher numbers are better for your stats, while lower numbers are better for your saves. For your lucky number, use personal preference.

Your rolls will help you to choose a class. In this game, your class is a combination of background and skills. You'll begin play at level one. The highest level in the game is 20. Your level is how experienced and talented you are in your class. If using your class, an attempt will always succeed--as long as the task difficulty or opponent is below your level.

Whenever you attempt to overcome an opponent, obstacle, or dilemma that is not automatically successful, you'll need to use the applicable stat and roll a d20. If the result is equal or below your stat score, you have succeeded. Rolling your exact stat score is a critical success. If you attempt an action outside of your class or the difficulty of the task is greater than your level, this number becomes the chance of critical failure.

Sometimes in the game you will find yourself in danger. When this occurs you'll need to make a save. Roll a d20 and if the result is higher than your save number, you have succeeded. If the difficulty or opponent's level is higher than yours, then the difference is added to the save, making it harder to succeed.

You can, once per session, switch out a die roll and replace with your lucky number. It can be switched for either a stat or save.

For now let's say you've chosen the Thief class. In D&D versions this class comes with a number of special abilities. Some provide + bonuses and others the percentage chance of success going up as your levels increase. But in this design, these skills/talent/abilities are already lumped into the 'class'. It assumes you're proficient at thievery, so things like: Hide in Shadows; Move Silently; Find & Remove Traps; Hear Noise; Climb Sheer Surfaces; Open Locks; and Pick Pockets, are automatically successful so long as the difficulty task difficulty or opponent is below your level. At you level, the tasks become easier because of your class.

Question: Are bonuses needed?

When you level, hit points increase and so on. You also can increase stat scores and decrease save scores. The maximum any stat can be is 18, while the lowest any save any be is 3.

With that in mind, what should the increments be for changing these scores?

Should the classes have differing rates of increments?

The next issue involves actions outside your class. Let's say a Fighter is trying to pick someone's pocket, or a thief is trying to bash a door down. This is not a class action, nor automatically successful so it goes to the rule stated above: Whenever you attempt to overcome an opponent, obstacle, or dilemma that is not automatically successful, you'll need to use the applicable stat and roll a d20. If the result is equal or below your score, you have succeeded...

What are the potential problems that you can see with this?

jqavins
2017-04-12, 03:13 PM
First question: Why? What are you trying to achieve that an existing and pervasive system like 3.x/Pathfinder does not? This looks like a fair start on a minimalist, simplistic system; is that the idea?

I'm going to indent your original text rather than go in and out of quotes over and over.
System mechanics:

Every character has seven scores. There are three stats, three saves, and one lucky number. Roll 3d6 seven times and then decide on where to put each result. Higher numbers are better for your stats, while lower numbers are better for your saves. For your lucky number, use personal preference.

AD&D (as far back as I go) had lots of examples of high rolls good for this and low rolls good for that. It was confusing and annoying. One of the best things about 3.x was rearranging things so that higher rolls are always better.

What are the three stats? What are the three saves?

Your rolls will help you to choose a class. In this game, your class is a combination of background and skills.

What are the classes? Below you go on to give a few details about the thief. I guess thief is one of the three classes?

You'll begin play at level one. The highest level in the game is 20.

Why? One of the worst things about 3.x is that level progress stops at an arbitrary maximum. You run a character for months, maybe years, really get to know and love him/her, then reach level twenty and you're done. Phooey!

Your level is how experienced and talented you are in your class. If using your class, an attempt will always succeed--as long as the task difficulty or opponent is below your level.

What does "using your class" mean? From the earlier statement "your class is a combination of background and skills" it seems most likely that you mean "using one of the skills that is intrinsic to your class," but it's not clear that that is the whole of what you mean. And there's no clue what sorts of actions fall under skills. You also mention a fighter below, so obviously that is one of the three. Is hitting an opponent with a weapon a skill? It's not in any version of D&D (unless it is in 5e; I wouldn't know) but it is in GURPS. Does that mean that when a fighter attacks an opponent of lower level he always hits? If so, that seems badly broken.

Also, how is the "task difficulty" determined?

Whenever you attempt to overcome an opponent, obstacle, or dilemma that is not automatically successful, you'll need to use the applicable stat and roll a d20. If the result is equal to or below your stat score, you have succeeded. Rolling your exact stat score is a critical success.

OK. The crit part is not mathematically different from saying a roll of one is a crit (it's just a one in twenty chance either way) but if this is what floats your boat it's fine.

If you attempt an action outside of your class or the difficulty of the task is greater than your level, this number becomes the chance of critical failure.

Confusing. The clause "If you attempt an action outside of your class or the difficulty of the task is greater than your level" is meaningless, since one is not making any roll unless that condition is met. So, what is the chance of a crit fail, i.e. to what does "this number" refer?

Sometimes in the game you will find yourself in danger. When this occurs you'll need to make a save. Roll a d20 and if the result is higher than your save number, you have succeeded. If the difficulty or opponent's level is higher than yours, then the difference is added to the save, making it harder to succeed.

Well, if the opponent's level is higher than yours and the opponent is "using his class" to put you in this danger, then you should not get a save, as the automatic success rule above applies.

You can, once per session, switch out a die roll and replace with your lucky number. It can be switched for either a stat or save.

No one will ever choose a lucky number other than 3 or 18, and no one will ever use the luck number if it does not mean success. So you might as well just say that once per session you may overrule the die roll and succeed anyway. Which is not necessarily a bad idea, but get rid of the unnecessary mechanic.

For now let's say you've chosen the Thief class. In D&D versions this class comes with a number of special abilities. Some provide + bonuses and others the percentage chance of success going up as your levels increase. But in this design, these skills/talent/abilities are already lumped into the 'class'. It assumes you're proficient at thievery, so things like: Hide in Shadows; Move Silently; Find & Remove Traps; Hear Noise; Climb Sheer Surfaces; Open Locks; and Pick Pockets, are automatically successful so long as the difficulty task difficulty or opponent is below your level. At you level, the tasks become easier because of your class.

Question: Are bonuses needed?
It's hard to tell, but probably not. If I'm reading this right, your level is, in effect, an adjustment to all rolls you make, so you get better at everything you do as your level goes up. For a minimalist, simplistic system, that's probably enough.

When you level, hit points increase and so on.

Please define "so on."

You also can increase stat scores and decrease save scores. The maximum any stat can be is 18, while the lowest any save any be is 3.

With that in mind, what should the increments be for changing these scores?

One point per level, applied to any of the six scores, would probably be OK.

Should the classes have differing rates of increments?

No.

The next issue involves actions outside your class. Let's say a Fighter is trying to pick someone's pocket, or a thief is trying to bash a door down. This is not a class action, nor automatically successful so it goes to the rule stated above: Whenever you attempt to overcome an opponent, obstacle, or dilemma that is not automatically successful, you'll need to use the applicable stat and roll a d20. If the result is equal to or below your score, you have succeeded...

OK, that rule seems clear enough as it stands; what's the issue?

vgunn
2017-04-13, 12:08 AM
Thanks for the response!


First question: Why? What are you trying to achieve that an existing and pervasive system like 3.x/Pathfinder does not? This looks like a fair start on a minimalist, simplistic system; is that the idea?

Yes, Pathfinder is too crunchy for me. I like a more simple system (like B/X D&D)--though not going for minimalist.


AD&D (as far back as I go) had lots of examples of high rolls good for this and low rolls good for that. It was confusing and annoying. One of the best things about 3.x was rearranging things so that higher rolls are always better.

My aim isn't for a unified mechanic. This one isn't complicated enough that should be an issue. Roll under for actions, roll over for reactions.


What are the three stats? What are the three saves

I haven't decided on the names yet. But actions are Confront (opponent), Avoid (obstacle), Solve (dilemma). Saves are close to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will from D20.


What are the classes? Below you go on to give a few details about the thief. I guess thief is one of the three classes?

14 classes. Iconic D&D archetypes. Cleric, Thief, Fighter, Magic-user, Assassin, Ranger...


it seems most likely that you mean "using one of the skills that is intrinsic to your class

Essentially yes, skills, talents, ablilities and/or feats are rolled into class. Barebones Fantasy and Barbarians of Lemuria are a couple games which are similar in this aspect.


Is hitting an opponent with a weapon a skill? Does that mean that when a fighter attacks an opponent of lower level he always hits? If so, that seems badly broken.

No combat is outside of class. So the the fighter would roll. I will address combat in another thread.


Also, how is the "task difficulty" determined?

I'm working on the scale, but thinking 1-12, 1 being mundane and 12 most difficult. But I need to playtest to verify.


OK. The crit part is not mathematically different from saying a roll of one is a crit (it's just a one in twenty chance either way) but if this is what floats your boat it's fine.
A thought is to take the +1 point per level suggestion you made and make it apply only to class-based stuff. So say your Dex is 12, but over the course of your career you pump it up to 15. In truth, your score is now 12/15. The second applies only to my 'class' stuff, the other one against everything else.

So for the Thief, when attempting a class action, a roll of 12-15 is a crit.


Confusing. The clause "If you attempt an action outside of your class or the difficulty of the task is greater than your level" is meaningless, since one is not making any roll unless that condition is met. So, what is the chance of a crit fail, i.e. to what does "this number" refer?

Example: Let's say your Level 3 Thief with a Dex of 15 is attempting to break into a safe. The difficulty for the safe is 8. If the difficulty is 2 or less, the attempt automatically succeeds. Since this is not the case, the difference is 5 and becomes the risk factor for the cracking the safe.

The thief needs to roll 6-15 to be successful. A roll of 15 is a critical success. A roll of 16-20 the attempt fails, but nothing bad happens. A roll of 1-5 is a critical failure.


Well, if the opponent's level is higher than yours and the opponent is "using his class" to put you in this danger, then you should not get a save, as the automatic success rule above applies.
?

Good catch, I'll need to address that. The automatic rule as it stands is only for players, not NPCs.


t's hard to tell, but probably not. If I'm reading this right, your level is, in effect, an adjustment to all rolls you make, so you get better at everything you do as your level goes up. For a minimalist, simplistic system, that's probably enough.

That is what I'm hoping for.


Please define "so on."

Combat bonuses, access to higher level spells, additional languages, followers, building strongholds, things like that.


One point per level, applied to any of the six scores, would probably be OK.

It's what I've been thinking as well.


OK, that rule seems clear enough as it stands; what's the issue?

Just wanted to make sure it reads okay.

Thanks again!