Player wants to be a dragon

[bovinelightfoot]

Ok so I have a player with a really cool concept. He is a elf with amnesia. At dms discretion he regains memories. Heres the spin. He is actually a dragon cursed by the gods into a human form. He eventually wants to remember he was a dragon and be able to take the full form of a silver dragon. Awesome concept and he took alot of time coming up with this detailed character. I have some ideas as to how to get him to that point at like lvl 5 he maintains huminoid form but takes on dragon characteristics like scales and a breath weapon lvl 12 or so he gets wings something like once a day for an hour or something. But my big issue is how the hell do i make him a full dragon and not make battles stupid boring. I mean op dragon wtf lol. I dont want to lose the flavor of the character and it provides so ba rp options. Any ideas. Btw this is my first time dming...

[Yuki Akuma]

Which system are you playing?

[Saint Jimmy]

I'd suggest having the player edit it so they don't become a full-on dragon. What game/edition is this? That could help a lot in determining mehcanical ways to do this.

In dungeons and dragons fifth edition there are ways to do this without the dragon transformation, I think there may be some in 3.5, and I think 4th edition has a way to become a dragon with some Dark Sun epic destiny. I can give more advice for the mechanics if I know what game and edition it is, like I said earlier though.

Edit: Ninja'd on the system question. First time that's happened to me!

[Vitruviansquid]

If the gods cursed him to be in human form, how is he an elf?

[DigoDragon]

If the gods cursed him to be in human form, how is he an elf?

I suspect heavy drinking was involved on Mount Olympus. :smallwink:


One possibility is that the player can only transform to a younger dragon category; a little smaller and less destructive, but still dragon-y.

[bovinelightfoot]

Playing dnd 5e

[bovinelightfoot]

Thinking of doing something like between a wrymling and a young silver that way its not super op but he can still do it once a day for an hour.

[braveheart]

Having him be a younger dragon and only unlock the full transformation at higher levels, it wouldn't be that OP, especially if you have him lose all of his class abilities. admittedly I'm not familiar with dragons in 5e, but in Pathfinder, by level 10 an optimized melee character can destroy a young dragon, so I'd suggest looking into it.

[Beneath]

5e PCs are built on significantly different rules from NPCs and monsters. It could be possible to homebrew up a Dragon class and race that has most of the dragon-y things you want to give him and allow him to class change to it after he unlocks his heritage. I'd model it off the Draconic sorcerer and the Eldritch Knight fighter, probably heavier on the Fighter than the Sorcerer (dragon form will not be a full caster), but trading most of the fighter-y things for dragon-y things (breath weapon, unarmored defense like either a sorcerer or a barbarian).

I can try my hand at a draft write-up at some point if you want.

[Quertus]

I think the key to making this work is to, initially, at least, have his transformations be uncontrolled, and only occur at dramatically inappropriate moments.

Say, the first time happens during a fight with relatively minor bandits or something. You can observe just how powerful the dragon form is, watch the party's reaction, and discuss things with the players afterwards.

Maybe the second time is during a formal dinner party. Maybe it occurs while collecting treasure, while asleep, while on watch.

If it were me, though, there would be a pattern. Say, as a simple example, d6+1 rounds after the first time he comes into contact with silver each day. So, silver arrows from one of the bandits, silverware at the dinner party, silver chalice in the treasure etc could all have triggered it. Or, if the party is use to my style, I'd make the trigger condition more obfuscated, somehow related to the curse placed upon him.

That's how I'd handle it. Well, that's one way I might handle it, at least.

[solidork]

My group is actually playtesting a Dragon race + class combo my DM designed. We're playing Princes of the Apocalypse and being large is pretty awkward when you spend 75% of the time underground or in buildings. His flying speed has let him + a rider steal a march on our enemies a couple of times. He's a solid melee combatant, but everyone else is a caster and we're getting 6th level spells next level.

[Pugwampy]

But my big issue is how the hell do i make him a full dragon and not make battles stupid boring. I mean op dragon wtf lol.

Who said you have to make him an lvl 20 ancient dragon ?

There are dragons for every level . Make him a level 5 young dragon . You could add to that an aging curse maguffin story plot and have this dragon level alongside his party .

[Lo'Tek]

The big problem with such a concept is not balancing against enemies, there are more than enough high end threats in the books. The problem is balancing the group. If one player plays a dragon, and another a low level human fighter, there might be a problem (comedic or story focused games can make everything work, but since you worry about combat, these do not seem to be what you plan to run)
Now this character concept is especially problematic because it means "great increase in power at point X"
If the character is consistently weaker than the group up until point X, the problem reverses. So maybe the best way is to increase the power of the other heroes at around point X as well. One gets the Artifact of Asskicking. The other meets his deity and becomes the Holy Champion. The group is again balanced, because they all got a buff.

One more point that makes this concept problematic: it smells like powergaming: "I should be able to do X in dragon form as well"
Depending on the system (I don't know 5e) there might be a lot of ways to abuse the chance of having a class as well as a monster body. Normally monster with additional abilities is a thing only to be used when monster alone is not a danger to the group.
So we are not only talking Dragon, we are possibly talking Dragon++
One way around this is to make a class that limits feats/skills/points to things that match the dragon as well. So the elf gets, over time, "bluff", "immunity to cold" "featherfall" "wall of fog" and later "fly" and "walk on clouds", magic resistance as well as some low level spells of the players choice (young adult silver dragons still have all that in 5e, don't they?) but can't choose any other feats.
If the dragons specials like "extreme attributes" and "high hit points" are matched to elf as high attributes and armor/weapon abilities that become irrelevant in dragon form, we have a subpar fighter with some innate magic and social skills.
-> bad midgame, good lategame

Finally: It sounds a bit like "can we have point X in 4 sessions? I want to show of my true form." at level 2
-> Your player might actually be asking to play a high level / high power campaign. Understandably because of the "good lategame" thing.
If that is the case, be sure that it is what everyone at the table wants. Others may prefer to keep it early/midgame and this player may choose a different character concept when faced with the possibility that dragon form will not come into play soon or at all.

[Saint Jimmy]

I'm wondering if just slowly replacing his elf features to dragonborn ones until he is a full dragonborn, and as that happens just multiclassing to dragon sorcerer would be enough. It is certainly mechanically fair to him and the rest of the group.

[Katrina]

With my admittably low amount of 5E knowledge, this is how I would go about something like this:

Look at the Circle of the Moon Druid to get a CR suitable for his class level. Let him play a fighter or whatever class he wants, then build him a "Dragon Ascendent" archetype that gives him a class feature or several along the way that makes him all Dragony. One of the abilities should be modeled on the Circle of the Moon Druid's Wild Shape, allowing him to take the form of a Silver Dragon of blah CR for so long a day. Reduce the CR he can take by a little to accommodate the increased supernatural abilities of the dragon (breath weapon and whatnot.).

I took this approach from another 5E based system called "Ultramodern", which allows players to change different types of progression in various different ways. Its really interesting, if you want a kind of Urban Arcana setting I recommend it.

Just giving him something on top of his class will cause balance issues in the party. The Classes are designed to fit into a proper role. Of course, if everyone has unusual abilities like this, then you just have to balance them against each other. In the end, it comes down to what you and your players are wanting/expecting.

[Joe the Rat]

I'm wondering if just slowly replacing his elf features to dragonborn ones until he is a full dragonborn, and as that happens just multiclassing to dragon sorcerer would be enough. It is certainly mechanically fair to him and the rest of the group.

I had a similar thought, except I'd say start as dragon sorcerer. Focus on silver-dragon appropriate spells (cold spells, obviously, plus ability enhancers, charm/fear effects, hold person/monster for the paralysis breath), with some items borrowed from other lists (Armor of Agathys is awfully appropriate), or retuning other spells (a cold-damage version of burning hands for early level effects). So much of the archetype is built towards "being more dragony" that it really fits the basics. Transitioning from elf to dragonborn (or human to dragonborn) starts adding additional appropriate features (like a built in breath weapon).



The druid idea is an interesting one too. I think 3.5 had a variant where you took on aspects of beasts, rather than full-on shapeshifting. Might be a place to build from if you want something less caster and more martial.
(Hmmm... I wonder if we could retune a Paladin for this....)

[Jay R]

It is with satisfaction bordering on glee that I point out rules for this, from the original Dungeons and Dragons, published in 1974.


Other Character Types: There is no reason that players cannot be allowed to play as virtually anything, provided they begin relatively weak and work up to the top, i.e., a player wishing to be a Balrog would have to begin as let us say, a relatively "young" one, and progress in the usual manner, steps being predetermined by the campaign referee.

So he becomes a full dragon at the level in which a human wizard, say, has roughly the same level of power as a dragon.

[Jaelommiss]

This is really easy. He's an elven Draconic Sorcerer who has a modified version of True Polymorph added to his spell list. Once he gets to level 17 he can temporarily assume his draconic form, choosing to make it permanent with the same limitations listed in the spell. Modify the Polymorph spell to only work on himself, and gives him the ability to turn into a dragon. Age Category is determined by CR and his level, as per the spell's limitations.

Draconic sorcerer gives him some dragon qualities as he develops, and magic lets him transform temporarily until high levels when he can make it permanent.

[Pex]

Playing dnd 5e

Go with the obvious.

The character is a Dragon Sorcerer, Silver bloodline. Play the game. When the campaign is about to end, to face the Ultimate BBEG who obviously was involved in the dragon getting cursed by some means, the character fully remembers, transforms back into the dragon he was, and fights the Ultimate BBEG as a dragon. Depending on taste the character can retain his Sorcerer class features including spells while as a dragon, but no harm is the character is just the dragon.

Other class options:

Vengeance Paladin with the character not really knowing why has a need for vengeance until the final battle as the dragon.

Warlock. A powerful being who knew the dragon in his original form as a friend does what he can to help the dragon get back his identity.

Barbarian. His instinctual rage at the injustice done to him manifests.

[The_Jette]

Ok so I have a player with a really cool concept. He is a elf with amnesia. At dms discretion he regains memories. Heres the spin. He is actually a dragon cursed by the gods into a human form. He eventually wants to remember he was a dragon and be able to take the full form of a silver dragon. Awesome concept and he took alot of time coming up with this detailed character. I have some ideas as to how to get him to that point at like lvl 5 he maintains huminoid form but takes on dragon characteristics like scales and a breath weapon lvl 12 or so he gets wings something like once a day for an hour or something. But my big issue is how the hell do i make him a full dragon and not make battles stupid boring. I mean op dragon wtf lol. I dont want to lose the flavor of the character and it provides so ba rp options. Any ideas. Btw this is my first time dming...

Question: if he's transforming into a dragon, does he have a fear aura? And, if so, is his party ready to roll vs fear in order to keep from having their friend scare the s&*t out of them?

[Dappershire]

Well, I don't see why the amnesia alone might not have kept him in elven form so long. But since you've introduced the very Gods into caring about your PCs life, there is no reason they will take his memory gain sitting on their divine thumbs. Just because he can regain his form (even so many times a day), doesn't mean he's still not cursed. Let heavy debuffs just blanket his scaly ass. Being huge only makes you a bigger target if you can't take advantage of the benefits. Everything a Dragon has, figure out a way to debuff it. Necrotic strength and Con damage. Every time he uses his breath weapon, he has to make a save against blindness. Lots of things can drop AC.
Think of it as Celestial Chains. They bind him (and his mind, originally) to his Elven form. But when he breaks free of his form, gaining his new body, the chains invisibly bite deeper into him.

You'll want to balance it out to whatever power level your campaign is, but don't feel like you're stuck, once you've written them down. Its not like one God can't turn to another and be like "Hey, when's the last time we F'd with anon's life?" and add another debuff.

[bovinelightfoot]

So got it figured out his transformation will be slow he will gain small benefits as he goes like breath weapon at lvl 5. And when he finally gets to the point where he fully turns i to a dragon he will loose all of his class traits no hunters mark or anything like that. Thanks everyone for the help