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Matticusrex
2017-04-12, 12:52 PM
This an attempt to get all martials closer to the power and versatility of a caster while still keeping their identity. The changes made here give the classes more to work with while fixing some of the problems in their under preforming archetypes. There are also a few homebrew archetypes not tested yet so keep that in mind.

These two homebrews have seem a couple months of play now in one of my groups (full of optimizer types) and so far it has been a success in getting those kinds of players to enjoy these classes more without making them too overbearing (although wizards still trump them :P). From testing I have found that while casters can still get ahead, the power gap in both combat and rollplay is much better like that of a paladin or revised ranger. I'm sure there is still some tinkering needed as some of the changes are big so I would like to get your specific opinions on individual mechanics within the classes.

My group plans to work on barbarian and monk next and eventually reach a new bar of power level as we dont enjoy the current bar.
Also theses are not meant to be multi-classed currently.

Fighter
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MDSR8W_RAQzoVi4kpkGu3zYP1k0oO2YT5xRFm7w2jjU/edit?usp=sharing

Rogue
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YzipRQ8YRgnl2UHGTrMr_zan515Pj_3nfkDW4js4WzU/edit?usp=sharing

Roderick_BR
2017-04-12, 02:55 PM
I got a few issues with it:

Basic:
Action Surge: Don't allow fighters to give extra actions for others. It breaks the action economy, and can be abused when he uses it on casters, and I don't see much how that would work anyway. For that reason the Dual Surge and the capstone would need to be changed too.
It feels like you tried to make him more group leader-y, but I dont think it looks good, and as I said, it can break the game when used with casters.

Champion:
Improved Critical and Critical Surge: Fighters doesnt need that kind of boost. Oh ye gods, critical 15-20?! Who will ever play any other meeler at all? And a crit on demand? I really wouldn't allow it in a game. 1/4 of the attacks being critical hits, and when you need it, critical hit anyway!
This kinda feels like those changes that are just more damage or something.

Survivor: You mean unkillable. 3d6+Con mod as a bonus action every round? The original was meant as an emergency healing. With this you can put off more threats than a barbarian and paladin together. Another one I wouldn't allow myself.
Again something that is just more HP or something.

That said, I really, really like the idea of giving maneuvers to all fighters. I'd keep the Superiority Dice mechanice instead of how you did here, but that works too. Maybe that's actually better, do it doesnt have a usage limit, I guess.

Fighters already came a long way since 3.x where they were pure crap, 5e gave them a deseved powerboost, and this one change will really boost them what they need, I just don't agree with those other changed I mentioned, because they feel too much.
As a sidenote, whatever ability you'd put for a capstone, you should name it "Battle Master" ;)

I don't have much experience with rogues, so I'll leave it for someone else to review.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2017-04-12, 10:16 PM
I got a few issues with it:Survivor: You mean unkillable. 3d6+Con mod as a bonus action every round? The original was meant as an emergency healing. With this you can put off more threats than a barbarian and paladin together. Another one I wouldn't allow myself.

Add to that the maneuver that gives +1d8 to AC in a bounded accuracy system and you're effectively invincible.

clash
2017-04-13, 08:46 AM
I think the biggest issue with this fighter class is that fighters are basically single target dpr king already and your fix adds more damage. Where caster have fighters beat is in utility. It is in ending encounters with powerful spells that don't deal hp damage. If you want to balance it out more at high levels add more control to the fighter.

Luca Sky
2019-02-24, 11:14 PM
What actually changed with rogue?
I may just be blind