Harry Potter d20

[terror_drone]

More or less the area for my Harry Potter d20 game here on these boards. This is pre alpha status and the players in my game (currently just entering recruiting) will help mold and shape it.

Edit: Also its going to take me plenty of time to upload all my info as most of it has been jotted down on note paper.

Contents
- Character Creation
- A) Races
- B) Classes
- Skills
- Feats
- Equipment
- Magic

[terror_drone]

The Races

Human:
- As in the SRD

Half-Giant:
- Large Size
- +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis

Veela Blooded:
- Medium Size
- +2 Cha, -2 Wis

[terror_drone]

Classes

Strong

Fast

Tough

Smart

Dedicated

Charismatic

[terror_drone]

Skills

New Skills:

Potions

Charms

Transfiguration

Dark Arts

Defense Against the Dark Arts

Ancient Runes

Astronomy

Divination

New Uses for Old Skills

Knowledge: History [Magical History]

Knowledge: Nature [Herbology]

Handle Animal [Care of Magical Creatures]

Ride [Use Broomstick]

[terror_drone]

Feats

Naturally Talented:
Benefit - 1 Cross Class Skill becomes a Class Skill and you gain an additional 2 Skill points per level.

[terror_drone]

Equipment

School Books

Wands

Broomsticks

Potions

[terror_drone]

Spells

- A -
Accio (Summoning)
(Age Line Charm)
Augimenti (Water)
Alohomara (opening)
Anapeno
(Anti-cheating)
(Anti-disapparition)
Antonin Dolohov’s Curse
Aparecium
Apparition
Avada Kedavra
Avis
- B -
(Banishing Charm)
(Bat-Bogey Hex)
(Bubble-Headed Charm)
- C -
Caterwauling Charm
Cave Inimicum
Cheering Charm
Colloportus
Color-Change Charm
Concealment Charm
Confringo (Blasting Curse)
Confundo (The Confundus Charm)
Conjunctivitus Curse
Crucio (The Cruciatus Curse)
Cushioning Charm
- D -
Daydream Charm
Defodio
Descendo
Deletrius
Densaugeo
Deprimo
Diffindo
Dissendium
(Disillusionment Charm)
(Dumbledore’s Jinx)
Duro
- E -
Engorgio (Engorgement Charm)
Episkey
Erecto
Evanesco (Vanishing Spell)
Expecto Patronum (Patronus Charm)
Expelliarmus (Disarming Charm)
Expulso
- F -
(False Memory Charm)
(Featherweight Charm)
Ferula
(Fidelius Charm)
Fiendfyre
Finite Incantatem (Counter-Spell)
(Flagrante Curse)
Flagrate
(Flame-Freezing Charm)
(Flying Charm)
(Freezing Charm)
Furnuculus Jinx
- G -
Geminio
(Gemino Curse)
Glisseo
(Gripping Charm)
(Growth Charm)
- H -
(Hair-Thickening Charm)
(Healing Spell)
(Hex Deflection)
Homenum Revelio
(Homorphus Charm)
(Horcrux Spell)
(Horton-Keitch Braking Charm)
(Hot Air Charm)
(Hover Charm)
(Hurling Hex)
- I -
(Imperturbable Charm)
Impedimenta (Impediment Jinx)
Imperio (The Imperius Curse)
Impervius (The Impervius Charm)
Inanimatus Conjurus
Incarcerous
Incendio
(Inferius Animation Spell)
(Inflation Charm)
(Intruder Charm)
- J -
(Jelly Legs Jinx)
- K -
(Knitting Needles Charm)
(Knee-Reversing Hex)
- L -

- M -

- N -

- O -

- P -

- Q -

- R -

- S -

- T -

- U -

- V -

- W -

- X -

- Y -

- Z -

[terror_drone]

Hopefully the last reserved spot.

[Ditto]

Reserved spot number... oh, are we not doing that anymore? :smalltongue:

Are you looking for suggestions, or just feedback once you get around the posting things? And be a pal and duck in to the Recruiting thread, the troops are getting restless. Arise, fearless leader!

[talagan]

Ditto to what... ditto said.

[terror_drone]

Oh I plan on posting in the recruiting thread...once I finished reading it. Also everyone is welcome to make suggestions, cause honestly this was meant to be a internet community style project.

[talagan]

Awesome. We need a leader. and it falls on you. :smallamused:

[Ditto]

Someone's already started a similar project (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=886189) on the Wizard's boards. I'm having trouble figuring out how Character Class is going to fit in this world... the most important thing is the magic system. Feats will have to be almost entirely magic oriented, and I suspect the casting will look somewhat like a Warlock. The series' 'unlimited casting' sure is a pain for people trying to play a role playing game - what was JKR thinking?

[terror_drone]

Not too sure, but as I posted (buried somewhere in I think page 3 of the recruiting) I'm not to strict on rules I prefer RPing. Besides if you look at the books, magic is only used occasionally they actually do far more logic and (god hates me fore making the connection) platforming to get through things.

[talagan]

Good point. I never thought of platforming. And as we are doing a play by post it will be mostly rping. I read that Wotc forum post and it seems like it has some good stuff.

I think im gonna go back to the other board.

[Zeta Kai]

You could do what I did with Resident Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49714). JK Rowling gave you 7 fairly consistent books. Capcom gave me 8 very inconsistent games. Your job, my friend, may take you about a couple of months, but I speak from experience when I say it can't be that bad.

Plus, you've centaurs, & they're sweet.

[terror_drone]

Yeah I saw what you did with Resident Evil Zeta, and I gotta say I am impressed. I've got some of the basics down for the system but really its all down on note paper and even then the basics are only half finished. Its been awhile since I worked on a full system, not only a setting and I forgot how much work is ahead of me.

But yeah we got centaurs, but you have mutants, zombies, and things way too similar to head crabs.

[Zeta Kai]

I've got some of the basics down for the system but really its all down on note paper and even then the basics are only half finished.

Hey, that's how JKR wrote most of her books. More power to ya.

[Neek]

Are the Veela that stupid to deserve an Int penalty?

If you want to use the existing magic system for D&D and just simply create spells based around that model, then I would suggest simply tooling in the Recharge Magic variant found in the OGL UA (SRD information available: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/rechargeMagic.htm). A spell-point system would also be good.

Optionally, I would propose a magic system which functions like this:

Ancient Runes, Astronomy, Charms, Dark Arts, Defense Against the Dark Arts, Divination, Potions, and Transfiguration are transformed into a subskills of Spellcraft. You make an appropriate Spellcraft check versus the spells DC to cast. Along with recharge time, this makes things a lot easier. Each magical spell requires a Wand and verbal component. Wands provide a +2 enhancement bonus to an appropriate skill, &c.

[Ditto]

I'd say veela have more important things to do than think. Like look in a mirror, and bewitch swooning admirers, and flip out into angry fanged warrior women, the usual. :smallsmile:

This recharge system is perfect! With slight modification to recharge times and redefining spell levels, we can crank out stats for the whole spell-list in no time. Good look!

[Ronald Bakbacon]

Man, this is turning out to be a pretty awesome project.

Although, honestly, I would think veela would get a wisdom penalty, not intelligence. But, hey, that's just me.

[Ichneumon]

I have read all the books, but what are veela's again?

This seems very cool.

[Vuzzmop]

Veela are magical beings similar to very beautiful humans. I still think it shouldn't be an int penalty for them though.

[InaVegt]

Am I right in thinking those classes are the same as the d20 modern classes of the same name?

[ravenkith]

I think the seperate skills for each school makes the most sense...and each character class should have 1-3 of these skills as being cross class.

Strong and tough should probably have 3 as cross class...

Strong (Hagrid as exemplar) would probably be bad at charms, potions & ? . Tough would probably be charms, potions & divination.

fast and charismatic two...fast (weasely twins as exemplars) probably not so great at history and divination. Charismatic (Patil twins) probably not so great at charms & ?

and Dedicated and Smart 1 each. Int (Hermione as exemplar), obviously, doesn't do well with divination. Dedicated (neville as exemplar), probably wouldn't do well in charms...

just thinking out loud, I guess.

Really, the best thing to do when building a game is to think of it in terms of:
1. character creation: what do you need to have, in order to build characters?
2. Experience- what are some of the ways that people can gain experience?
3. Combat system: if combat is a part of the game, how will it work?
4. Level-up - How does it work, what will leveling up affect? Why?

[Fuum Bango]

How about pure-blooded wizards having a natural spell effect?

Voldemorts bloodline can talk to snakes.

Snape's cast Grease on their hair at will...erm. :smallamused:

[DeathQuaker]

Realizing that the OP has already been thinking on it, I still post this in hopes it might be useful: a variation on the Slayers d20 magic system might be suitable here. (Though made by Guardians of Order, Slayers d20 operates under its own rules, not under BESM d20... thank goodness.)

The general idea is a character gains a number of spell "slots" based on a number of factors--largely Int bonus (Wis or Cha bonus could be used instead) and granted by certain class levels and feats. The slots limit how many spells you KNOW.

Each spell takes up so many "slots" -- a simple spell like a Light spell will take up only one slot, where a very difficult and/or dangerous spell may take up 4 or even more. There are additional rules about specialization, where you may gain extra slots for your specialty, but spells outside your specialty cost double, etc.

So a low level wizard, or someone who has a high enough attribute, may only know one or two spells, but a capable, intelligent and experienced wizard will have many to their arsenal (compare the number of spells mastered by Ron compared to Hermione).

Spell casting itself is not limited per day--you can cast as often as you want any spell you know. But you must make a "control check" every time you cast a spell. Each spell has its own DC -- a "Lumos" spell would have a very low DC, "Avada Kedavra" would have a very high one. To make a control check, you make a Willpower Save (IIRC). If you succeed, the spell is cast without a hitch.

If you fail the Will save, you must then make a Fortitude Save to avoid ill effects of miscasting the spell. If you make THIS save, the spell simply fizzles, but if you fail this save as well, you will become Fatigued, etc. And becoming Fatigued makes the DCs harder to cast further spells, so in that sense, you can become limited in how often you cast. (Note I may be switching which save is the Will Save and which is the Fortitude.)

There are of course feats and such which add to your saves when casting spells, etc.

The more I think about it, this could be well adapted to how HP magic works. Adjustments could be made--perhaps either spell slots are increased or DCs are decreased since HP spells have the limitation that you must have a wand to cast most spells.

[Ditto]

When allocating weak schools, it would probably be best to stick to judging the core subjects. Being weak in Divination is a joke. The electives should have associated bonuses and weaknesses, too, but that shouldn't count in the basic character creation. After all, you have to be able to play these guys from Year One.

[Random NPC]

One thing that could have some focus should be the wands. In D&D we have a large arsenal to pick from, in the HP universe we only have wands, so to make things more customizable we should give certain properties to wands that impact the character, based on what Rowling gave us.


We have the wood, lenght, flexibility and core.

The flexibility of the wand we can almost say for certain it influences how good you can be at certain magic. Lilly Potter had a "swishy" wand that was good for charms while James had a pliable wand that was more aim to transfiguration.

Now we have to work with the remaining characteristics.

Length could be associated with the general size of a person, be it in terms of size or magic. Voldemort had a big wand and was quite potent. Umbridge had a tiny wand and was really annoying. For Hagrid I think it was rather personal size.

The Core I'm not sure on what to say regarding this matter. Could be associated more with your magical personality. Unicorn for noble characters, Dragon for strong characters and Phoenix for elegant or royal characters? Need some working.

Wood could be a more focused strength in the Wizard's already focused strength. What I mean is the following. Let's say your wand is quite bendy but not as bendy to be good for transfigurations, so you would be more of a charms person. The wood could orient you to a more focused area of charms, be it defensive, locomotive, influential or offensive or whatever. Since Rowling based some of the wands of the characters in Celtic Zodiac we can also take up from there.

Here's a list of Wood and tentative focus based on their Celtic origin.

Birch: Protection to children, purification, creativity. Now, how can this be translated? Well, let's say your wand is in the area of Charms, your focus would be on the area of defensive charms and creative. If Transfiguration in purifying spells, defensive spells and creative spells (reductio, ridiculus). For Potions and herbology you could be good at doing potions of protection, curative potions that focus on purification of dark magic and such.

Rowan: Healing, personal empowerment and divination. Healing and divination are obvious, as you can work on charms, transfiguration and potions around that, as for personal empowerment are more focused on making your character stronger. This could be a good aspect for a Slytherin Character

Ash: Prosperity, protection and healing. This type of wood would be perfect for a Hufflepuff character who focus on helping others with magic. If concentrated to oneself could be also a good option for a Slytherin character who focuses on giving prosperity to his family or himself. I imagine the wizards that worked on Gringolts used Ash wands as I somehow associate this with money.

Alder: Spirituality, Teaching, Weather Magic, Duty and Mental Prowess. This reeks Gryfindor. A combination between Luna and Hermione who excels at Oclumancy.

Willow: Romantic Love, Healing, Protection, Fertility and Female Magic. OK, This is supposed to be Ron. Well, he IS a ladies man and the Weasleys are quite productive.

Hawthorn: Peace, Prosperity, Cleansing, Protection and Chastity. This smells like Hufflepuff. A wand with this wood could be used by someone who is in charge of healing people in the battlefield giving first aide.

Oak: All Positive Purposes, Fidelity and Masculine Magic. This could be good for the jack of all trades. Also you can draw similarities with Hagrid.

Holly: Protection, Prophecy, Animal Magic and Sexual Magic. Damn, kinky. This is the wood of Harry Potter. Protection is a given as he was always good in DADA, Animal Magic is also right as he was a Parsel mouth and was not afraid of Hagrid, I mean, Hagrid's beasts.

Hazel: Manifestation, Spirit Contact, Protection and Fertility. This wood seems mystic. Could be used for someone good at divination.

Vine: Dependent upon the type of Vine:
Blackberry: Prosperity and Protection
Blueberry: Spirituality and Dream Magic
Grape: Fertility, Inspiration, Prosperity and Binding
Thistle: Courage, Protection and Strength

This one is more complex since you have different type of Vine Wood. Hermione used a Vine wand, probably Grape although Thistle could also be it.

Ivy: Healing, Protection, Cooperation and Exorcism. You have here a focused Defense Against the Dark Arts wand.

Reed: Fertility, Protection, Love and Family Concerns. This one is hard since you don't have a certain focus. Could be used to everyday magic?

Elder: Exorcism, Prosperity, Banishment and Healing. Another extremely focused wand for Defense Against the Dark Arts. By the way, my character uses Elder :smalltongue:

[Ditto]

Very thorough, Random! This is certainly a nice thing to have around when deciding on wandwood for flavor. There's a lot of overlap in the traditional descriptions, but that's nice since it allows a bit of choice while picking variations within the same discipline.

As the Slayer variant goes, I think that magic should be a separate set of skills. Spellcraft might be shifted into this category, too, for general skill in learning and mastering new spells. The Charms skill, say, would be more for casting.

That takes care of Charms, Transfiguration, DADA. Basically, the wand subjects. But others are more difficult... Potions, you use Potionbrewing I suppose. Herbology is a tough skill to quantify - does it belong under Kn: Nature still? - and I'm trying to figure out what being good at Herbology would represent, in game. Arithmancy and Ancient Runes should probably follow rules for Decipher Script (being two new categories, of course); Divination is about reading signs (mostly), so this will have the same magic category. They'll obviously be less popular choices so the mechanics can probably wait. :smallsmile: Muggle studies is straight Kn: Muggles, so it need not be in the Magic Skills category. Same for Astronomy History of Magic.

In the magic skills category, there are thus fourdivisions: Wandwork, Thinkwork, Handiwork, and Bookwork. (Is it fitting that I'm starting to sound like Erfworld magicians?) EDIT: They seem organizable along the three mental stats, so I'll develop a mechanic for those who want mental stats to count in magicking.

Magic skills
{table=head]-|
Wandwork|
Handiwork|
Thinkwork|
Bookwork

Stat|
Spellcraft|
Handle|
Decipher|
Knowledge

Int|
Transfiguration|
Potions|
Ancient Runes|
History 'o Magic

Wis|
DADA|
Herbology|
Divination|
Astronomy

Cha|
Charms|
CoMC|
Arithmancy|
Muggle Studies[/table]

Listed in what expect will be order of popularity, decreasing left to right.

Each of the 6 classes could be good at a combination of these. I'm still trying to sort out how those'd work, because obviously Thinkwork and Bookwork aren't going to be popular, so doing a cross-section isn't the best way to go.

((More thoughts to come))

[Amphimir Míriel]

Like DeathQuaker I would also vote for an alternative casting system. However I would propose a simpler system.

All spellcasting characters can cast any spells they know any number of times per day. However, every spell cast requires a Casting Check to determine success:

Casting Check = D20 + Caster level + Spellcasting stat bonus (Int, Wis or Cha) v.s. 10 + Spell difficulty level + Misc. Mod

In the event of failure, a mishap occurs (and then you roll on a mishap table)

Now, for spell difficulties, I would leave this to the more devout HP fans, but I would suggest that first book "easy spells" like Wingardium Leviosa, are difficulty 1; mid-level-yet-not-kid-stuff like Patronuses, are Difficulty 5; while real noodle-bending stuff like things we see Dumbledore or Voldemort do are difficulty 10 or more

Now, for number of spells known, maybe a table similar to the Sorcerer's would do...

[Ditto]

Skills:

There are several skills that are unimportant in a wizarding game, and it should be easy to bang this list out quickly. Skills will likely take on a less-important role, same as melee combat, with magic use being the all-important mechanical trait that defines a character.

Balance
Bluff
Climb
Concentration - I'm mixed on whether this is necessary.
Craft ? (Would this be covered under some 'Craft Wondrous Item' feat?
Decipher Script - Rarely useful in D&D, mostly subsumed in Thinkwork
Diplomacy
Disable Device - It can be used for locks, and booby traps, I guess...
Disguise
Escape Artist - Necessary?
Forgery - Rare, as with D&D, but we know Dean Thomas was good at it.
Gather Information
Handle Animal - Subsumed by CoMC?
Hide
Intimidate
Investigate
Jump
Knowledge - See below
Listen
Move Silently
Repair - Adapted for magic items?
Research - Integrated into magic skill points?
Ride - CoMC?
Search
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Spot
Survival - It's rough in the halls of Hogwarts, G.
Swim
Treat Injury

Add: Flying (Broom), Quidditch-related skills, by position?

A lot of these I figure should be kept around because they conceivably *could* be useful, but I don't see most of these skills as being a very important part of this game. You don't go adventuring around Hogwarts the same way you do in Greyhawk. I'd be fine with dropping the physical skills (Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, Tumble), same as I always have in D&D. Balance is the only one that's ever come up for me, and might be useful in Quidditch. Tumble is useful in D&D, but not so much here since physical things are de-emphasized - possibly Quidditch again. Skills I eliminated: Computer Use, Demolitions, Drive, Gamble, Navigate, Perform, Profession, Read/Write/Speak Language. All fairly obvious.

Knowledges... Astronomy, History of Magic, and Muggle Studies are magical studies and actual classes at Hogwarts, so I'm inclined to keep them in the Magic points section. They'd always be worth 1 point per rank, if other subjects are worth 3 per rank, favored subjects worth 2, something like that. For other magic skills, we might do it like in Deadlands, where 1st rank costs 1, 2nd rank costs 2, etc.

The other (mundane) knowledges which might apply are few. Arcane Lore should be integrated in research, perhaps, or an application of the appropriate magic skill, but there are some things which fall outside of the classes' purview. They're sort of History of Magic, I guess...
-Art - It's not *un*useful...
-Business
-Civics
-Current events
-Popular culture - Why is this even a skill?
-Streetwise
-Technology, Magical - Could be adapted.
(Dropped: Any of the 'Sciences', History, Tactics, and Theology and Philosophy)


It has occurred to me, reading some things, that there are other sorts of magic which must be included at some point: Occlumency/Legilimency, Medical Magic, and Household magic (I guess...) I think those are the only other sorts of magic we have seen that aren't directly covered by the coursework at Hogwarts... any others?

[puppyavenger]

For cores how about

Dragon harmful
unicorn benificial
phenix general

[Ditto]

Then you wouldn't have most folks picking dragon heartstrings... and Hermione's was that, so it's not like the core alone dictates the 'flavor' of the wand. I'd be inclined to leave the build of the wand cosmetic and then just deciding what the bonus you wanted it to give would end up being.

[SydneyLosstarot]

They could use Decipher Script since they have Ancient Runes and such and encounter them quite often.

[Zeta Kai]

Terror Drone, have you come up with a way to separate Muggle humans from Wizarding humans? I think that they should probably be two different races.

Muggles could be treated as standard RAW humans (extra feat & skill points), but the may simply be unable to take a spellcasting class.

Wizards/Witches could have no extra feat & skill points, but could have an automatic level of a spellcasting class.

Any thoughts?

[Ditto]

Should Muggles be the PHB Humans, or should wizards? When matched against one another, Muggles have shown to be stodgy and *not* adaptable, the fluff reasoning behind their PHB perks. Wizards are much spiffier, and should be treated as the default race in this world. Also, there is no spell casting class - you're a wizard, period. At least as far as Muggles go. This is starting to feel like it'll end up M&M or GURPS-like, where the build is all the definition you'll get/need. Classes don't really mesh well with 'Everyone does magic'. As I said in the recruiting thread, you're going to end up having 99 Smart/Dedicated heroes.

If we want to branch out for adventures in the wide wizarding world beyond Hogwarts some day, then stats for Centaurs and Goblins and Muggles and Half-Giants might be fun - but we really ought to get pre-pubescent wizard creation figured out first.

[InaVegt]

As I have understood it, he's going to use a naruto d20 style magic, naruto d20 has lifted the special abilities quite well from the classes (admitted, some classes are better at ninjutsu than others, but others are better at genjutsu, and so on)

[Kurald Galain]

Half-giants probably need a strength boost, and a cha penalty. Their race is not well-liked in the wizard world.

From what I recall of Veela, I believe their cha boost should be higher, and I see no reason for the int penalty. Some physical penalty sounds more likely. Also, there's half-Veela around.

Centaurs should be statted. This appears to be a +LA race, as they're both physically strong and mentally wise.

I fail to see what you mean by the six classes. Perhaps you could name a few characters as examples.

How is potions skill not the same as craft: alchemy? Ancient runes appears to match decipher script, and transfiguration equates to spellcraft. Legilimency and its counterpart are plausible skills to add, as is magical duelling. How about Knowledge: Quidditch players of the past? Ron has that maxxed.

Equipment. Add cauldron. Possibly add spellotape, exploding snap, and all that horrid candy they are so intent on carrying around.

HP chararacters do not match with levels well, as evidenced by the fact that kids routinely take out adults in the books.

[Ditto]

Kids taking out adults is a matter of applying spells in clever patterns, not the strength of spells. 'Leveling up' would allow you to raise your Dodge, most importantly, and your DADA rank for Protego. (I suppose the way we'd distinguish DADA from other Charms (since Protego is technically the Shield Charm) is things to be used solely in duelling.) If you get hit by a spell, you're pretty much down - Crucio could have a Fort save to halve the effects, and Imperio could have a Will save, but you don't really get a Will save versus Tarantallegra.

I'm not clear on how Naruto d20 works after skimming through the info... it does say it's based on pitfights, and no matter how much people enjoy duelling there is MUCH more the HP. I don't know that powerpoints you can expend (and run out of) daily could work with Harry Potter, since people can cast unlimited times per day. I think the recharge magic mentioned previously is a much stronger model to build from/adapt.

Levelling is beneficial in the level of spell effects and potions you can develop - not everything is duelling. Sometimes you really need to make that cat turn into a cauldron and then disappear, and first years can't pull that off consistently. Though I shudder to think of the experiments people will pull off once with a natural 20... :smallamused:

[Jarelk]

This sounds like a cool project.

I read the topic through a bit. I think Amphimir Míriel's spell system is the way to go, but give wizards unlimited spells.

Because unlike normal characters, wizards don't use armor, shields, weapons or magic items that much, except a wand.

[curtmack]

Since there are about twenty different suggestions for how spells should work, here's my idea. Wizards have no limit to the number of spells they know, or that they can cast per day. Instead, have limitations on how they learn spells, and how "good" they have to be to learn a certain spell. Remember, characters often spend multiple lessons mastering a single spell, and in the end the worst students (Neville) end up none the wiser for it. My recommendation would be that each spell has a minimum level, a minimum number of ranks in the appropriate skill, and a minimum ability score (the ability would depend on the spell - some spells might rely on intelligence, but many might use dexterity for tricky wand movements). If you don't meet the requirements, you still know the spell, but since you haven't mastered it, you have to pass a skill check (appropriate to the spell type), with DC depending on the factor by which you fail, with a failure resulting in a fizzle and a failure by more than 5 resulting in a mishap, rolled on a mishap table of course.

As an example, let's consider one of the simplest spells: Lumos. Lumos is a relatively easy spell, so a level 1 character can easily master it. I'd say level 1, minimum 1 rank in Charms, and a minimum intelligence of 12. Pretty much all wizards should be able to meet those requirements. It's a bit harder to use the summoning charm, Accio - perhaps level 2, minimum 3 ranks in charms, and a dexterity of 14. Dexterity is appropriate for Accio because precise wand movement seems to be a prerequisite.

On the other hand, an exceptionally difficult spell, such as the Fidelius charm, would by the same token require an exceptionally powerful wizard - perhaps level 15, 10 ranks in charms, and intelligence 18.

[Yakk]

Each type of magic should be a class.

Heroic and non-Heroic versions of each class exist. Heroic versions gain Fate Points, non-Heroic don't.

Effects have a damage rating that generally applies to a particular statistic.

Heroic classes give out Fate Points. When something harmful happens to your character, you can burn Fate Points to reduce the effect to a single point at a ratio of 1 fate point per damage prevented, or you can spend 2 fate points per damage prevented to completely nullify the damage.

A Sword is swung at the apprentice wizard. It does 1d8+1 con damage -- a 5 is rolled, doing 6 damage. The apprentice wizard can either spend 5 fate and take 1 con damage, or spend 12 fate and avoid the damage completely.

This allows for spells that attack your charisma, intelligence, wisdom, dexterity, strength or constitution to be blocked via a standard fate-point burning system.

Without fate points, the system is very gritty -- a high level non-Heroic wizard could be taken out by a single blast. With fate points, it feels a lot like D&D melee combat, with attrition on each side. :) Except "grazing blows" and "connecting blows" aren't abstracted out -- instead, the defender picks if the blow grazed or if it connected.

[Ditto]

So, background students get to die just because they're not PCs? People don't need fate points to survive most times at Hogwarts... I don't think HP is the way to go (hit points, that is), since people are more often banged up or stunned (small s) or bruised, I think statuses like in SWd6 and M&M would be better. Getting stunned really is the way you lose at life in Harry Potter, not Con damage. It really *shouldn't* feel like D&D. They're not terrifically comparable.

I’ve come up with some ideas for the magic system, leveling, and spell lists. PEACH!

To represent development in magical prowess, there are three levels per year, roughly working out to Halloween, Christmas, and Easter, if everyone is developing at the same rate. (For more and less gifted wizards and witches, I’ll have come up with some adaptation, but for simplicity’s sake I’m assuming that everyone is at the same place.) Your level is computed be the formula (Year x 3) – 2, as doodled in below. The thirds correspond with the holidays.

{table=head]Year|Level|Year|Level

1|1|4 1/3|11

1 1/3|2|4 2/3|12

1 2/3|3|5|13

2|4|5 1/3|14

2 1/3|5|5 2/3|15

2 2/3|6|6|16

3|7|6 1/3|17

3 1/3|8|6 2/3|18

3 2/3|9|7|19

4|10|7 1/3|20

-|-|7 2/3|21 [/table]

We’ve tossed out some ideas of relative spell levels (I like your basic logic, Curtmack), and we’ll need a proper list eventually, so I put together some Charms, DADA (dueling spells), and potions based roughly on when they were introduced in the books. There honestly aren’t a *whole* lot more out there, so our spell lists are going to be relatively short until we start homebrewing some (or decide that the current spell lists are plenty useful for our purposes). There’s lots of room to expand Transfiguration (too many effects for my lazy self to look up right now), Potions, and Herbology. DADA and Charms are pretty well defined already.

Sample Charms
{table=head]Level 0|Level 1|Level 2|Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Lumos|Wingardium|Reparo|Diffindo|Confundo|Evanesco |Aguamenti

Flagrate|Alohamora|Incendio|Locomotor|Accio| Silencio|Muffliato[/table]

Sample DADA
{table=head]Level 1|Level 2 |Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Expelliarmus|Petrificus Tot|Finite Inc.|Protego|Stupefy|Levicorpus

Furnunculus|Impedimenta|Reducto|Incarcerous|Langlo ck|Confringo[/table]

Sample Potions
{table=head]Level 1|Level 2|Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Forgetfulness |Sleeping|Shrinking|Strengthening |Polyjuice|Living Death [/table]

I want to divorce the standard 6 abilities from the magic process as much as possible. It’s largely pointless to have all of those Smart and Dedicated Heroes running around together, hm? That’s not an accurate representation of Hogwarts. It’s not even about being optimized – you can’t play as a wizard without a strong mental stat, which severely limits how you spend your buy-points. Perhaps the ability mod could have some influence, but there are many ways to cast the same spell in most cases. For this reason, I propose magic is allocated through Magic skill points – distinct from mundane skill points. I’m mixed on how to assign different amounts of skill points, since there should be *some* variation in natural ability, with some other kind of payoff.

Combinations of natural talent could be a good reflection of this. Having options for specialization seems obvious, as reflected in the characters throughout the series. These might be considered feats, but it doesn’t really make sense to choose more than one (you can’t start stacking specialties). There will certainly be feats that specifically boost your casting (a la Spell Focus) on top of these ‘Knacks’. These would be bonuses, either giving a free point of reducing the costs of ranks, and presumably some drawback;since not everyone would like to take one of the prescribed knacks and it would be unfair to let some have this and not others. I’m overthinking it, I guess, trying to keep the characters in mind. It would be just as easy to allow two ‘favored schools’ at creation. A few ideas I had, quickly and sloppily jammed into character models:

Knacks
{table=head]Harry|Hermione|Ron|Neville|Luna|Ginny|Cedric

DADA|Charms|Good at|Herbology|CoMC|DADA|Charms

Potions|Transfig’n|nothing.|DADA|Transfig’n|Charms |Herbology[/table]

The disciplines are organized as in my earlier post in the chart below.
EDIT: They seem organizable along the three mental stats, so I'll develop a mechanic for those who want mental stats to count in magicking.

Magic skills
{table=head]-|
Wandwork|
Handiwork|
Thinkwork|
Bookwork

Stat|
Spellcraft|
Handle|
Decipher|
Knowledge

Int|
Transfiguration|
Potions|
Ancient Runes|
History 'o Magic

Wis|
DADA|
Herbology|
Divination|
Astronomy

Cha|
Charms|
CoMC|
Arithmancy|
Muggle Studies[/table]

The first two categories are the key ones, and contain the core subjects (plus CoMC). ‘Caster’ level is determined by a wizard’s strength in each of the four magic studies categories and its corresponding Magic Ability Score (Wandwork – Spelling, Handiwork – Handle Magical Thingie, Thinkwork – Discern, or Bookwork - Reading), and adding to it the Magic Skill ranks placed into the derivative fields of magic (which applies to Charms, Potions, Divination, and Astronomy, et al.).

Thus, a wizard focusing in Wandwork might have 2 points in Spelling, and 3 more points in Charms, and 2 points apiece in DADA and Transfiguration. This makes her caster level for Charms 5, and DADA and Transfiguration both 4. At character creation, ranks in Stats and Skills will be cheaper than raising them in the course of the game. Stat raising costs more than Skills, since it affects three Skill-categories. Additionally, different schools of magic (the four categories) will have different costs, because Thinkwork and Bookwork will be terrifically unpopular and deserve to be cheaper – or conversely, Wandwork and Handiwork are harder from a magic point of view, and the point values should demonstrate increased investment.

A spell/potion/plant will have a Learn DC in order to master it. A caster level check then goes something like this:
Learn DC vs. Magic stat + Magic skill + Level
There will be a natural creep through the year as the wizard levels up, allowing him to gain magical abilities in areas he may not be focusing on heavily. This prevents having a completely unbalanced wizard with Charms 15 and Herbology 2. (We’d like to think that some of the schooling rubs off each year, so you learn something even if by accident) I’m still sorting out how to compute the start DCs to learn a given spell. I feel like adding all those stats to 1d20 would give too much variation, and you might ‘get lucky’ and learn a spell very quickly… In any event, it will definitely take some significant amount of ‘time’ to master a spell (perhaps level x2 days)

You may attempt to cast a spell you do not know, assuming you’ve been exposed to it in some way. (Fudge the rules for ‘familiar with…’ from Polymorph, say.) The limit will be the spell must be no more than one (or two?) level(s) higher than your current spell level. That’ll be something like 1d20 + Stat + Skill vs. Learn DC +5 (or +10, depending on how that’s balanced). This allows you to pull of fun feats of magic in desperate circumstances as last ditch moves – or to experiment with things above your level. This will hopefully strike a balance between accessibility and reliability – if you really plan on having this spell/potion/effect in your arsenal, then you’d better invest the Stat and Skill points necessary to improve it permanently.

There will be expanded rules for botches; botches are the best part of magic! A natural 1 will be some sort of spectacular disaster – blowback from your wand, getting a chomp from the Venomous Tentacula, the shrinking solution turns you into a toad… on a 2-5, the spell fails with some interesting display, but nothing disastrous. You’ll be laughed at by friends and enemies. If you’re currently learning the spell, you get a +5 (or such) representing your furthered knowledge of that spell.

aaand that’s what I’ve got so far. Respond! :smallbiggrin:

[Yakk]

So, background students get to die just because they're not PCs? People don't need fate points to survive most times at Hogwarts... I don't think HP is the way to go (hit points, that is), since people are more often banged up or stunned (small s) or bruised, I think statuses like in SWd6 and M&M would be better. Getting stunned really is the way you lose at life in Harry Potter, not Con damage. It really *shouldn't* feel like D&D. They're not terrifically comparable.

Yes -- background characters in HP die when a bad guy tries to kill them. Main characters (PCs and key NPCs) tend to survive, as do key bad guys.

Basically, we have Mooks and Heroes. In HP-verse, many Mooks are highly skilled Wizards, while the Heroes are relatively young and untrained Wizards. Hence the split between Heroic and non-Heroic levels.

You can gain non-Heroic levels by simply studying and learning magic. You can only gain Heroic levels by being a key character and/or doing Heroic things.

I think it would be fair to give students one level for every year at the school. Even a graduate of the school isn't a grand-master wizard. Naturally, being super-talented can gain you levels faster than this.

Each class would be a different "school" or specialty of magic, and would let you get higher level spells. Your skill at a school is equal to (sum of wizard levels)+(school level), which produces a background competence behind specialization.

I'd use a sorcerer-like spells known -- it keeps things relatively simple. Each level in a school of magic grants you new spells known from that school and some from outside of the school.

Every level you get two tricks.
Generic Trick: (Level/2) rounded up.
School Trick: School Level+(Level)/2, rounded up.

So a L 5 Herbologist would have:
2 L 1 generic tricks
2 L 2 generic tricks
1 L 3 generic trick
1 L 2 Herbologist trick (or combination thereof)
1 L 3 Herbologist trick (or combination thereof)
1 L 5 Herbologist trick (or combination thereof)
1 L 6 Herbologist trick (or combination thereof)
1 L 8 Herbologist trick (or combination thereof)

Her Herbologist casting level would be 10, and her non-Herbologist casting level would be 5. So while she could know a L 8 Herbologist trick, she'd be bad at casting it -- it would be dangerous to use.

DCs of spells should be roughly:
10 + Level*5

So a L 8 Herbologist trick has a DC of 50.

The L 5 pure Herbologist has a +10 Herbologist level, +4 to the Herbology stat, and items that grant another +6 to Herbology, for a total of +20 Herbology.

By taking a 20, she can create a L 6 potion (but that requires ridiculous amounts of ingredients and lots of practice). She can create a reliable L 2 potion, and her L 4 potions work half of the time.

In comparison, a L 20 Wizard with Herbology 5 has +25 Herbology levels, probably +6 to the Herbology stat, equipment that grants +14 to Herbology, for a total of +45. Taking 20, she can produce a L 11 potion reliably -- but who has 20 units of L 11 potion ingredients? -- or she can knock off L 7 potions that are certain not to fail.

Thoughts?

[Ditto]

People don't die frequently in Harry Potter. It is decidedly not a 'gritty' system or world. And how many 'main characters' are there in the world at one time? The fact is, most of the time students are just students, getting into hijinx around the school and not battling Dark Forces.

I think it would be beneficial to offer opportunities for advancement throughout a given year. Once we come up with a few homebrew spells and potions particularly, we'll be able to have something new to learn every level in at least several of the disciplines. I considered two levels per year, also, which works just as well... but people are always anxious to step up their power, and I thought offering as many opportunities as possible would be best. Also, I think it makes sense for levels taken after Hogwarts to be called 'epic' - after this point, there's no more schooling. You're learning some mundane, uncomplicated spells that are variations on your Hogwarts repetoire or else doing your own research. It's definitely above and beyond - your formal education in magic ends after Seventh Year.

I can't stomach the idea that a wizard is good at only one of 6 (technically 12) disciplines in the whole school. People have some weak subjects, but 5 are doomed to being subpar from the start. This also precludes the possibility of generalist wizards.

This method is going to get math-y very fast. The biggest pain with a D&D wizard is all the bookkeeping involved with a spellbook (throw in Collegiate Wizard, and Oy vey!). This should be as simple as possible, and the 'spell' list for each subject should be fairly small. Advancement represents increased degree of control, where applicable, or reliability and quality (especially in the Handiwork subjects, where degrees of success are more visible than Wandwork ones). Also, computing DCs is going to math up at lot if we look at something on the 50s as a midlevel spell. It'd be much simpler to have DCs run from 5-25, with as little dicerolling as possible involved in actually picking out the spell lists.

[ravenkith]

You're gonna need NPCs...

Staff:

Headmaster: ???
Herbology: Neville Longbottom (Sprout retired)
Divination: Firenze, the centaur (Trelawney fired w/o Dumbledore to protect).
DADA: Well, Potter himself would be a good choice here...
CoMC: Hagrid (who has gotten much better at his job).
Potions: ??? (Slughorn retired in 19 years)
Transfiguration: ??? (McGonacle retired in 19 years)
Muggle Studies: ???
History of Magic: Binns (he's a ghost...eternal).
Charms: Flitwick, possibly (perhaps as a part-goblin, he has an extended lifespan)
Caretaker: ??? (Filch retired)
Gamekeeper: ??? (If not Hagrid)


Which means the possible invention of up to 5 new faculty members, not including the Headmaster, who theoretically ought to be someone we recognize...and any other support staff.

Also: what happens to SPEW? with the heroic example of Dobbie to follow, do more House elves want to be free?

and that's just at hogwarts....don't forget the ministry, diagon alley, Durmstrang (Karkaroff died as a footnote) and Beauxbatons...

[SydneyLosstarot]

waitwaitwait, when it was said Flitwick was a part-goblin?

Hermione could do Muggle Studies on a special request from the Headmaster. well, she could cover any post, so one can use her as a wild card =))

[Ditto]

JKR has stated that Flitwick has a 'dash of goblin ancestry' but I don't think it's particularly visible. Dean Thomas has some too. It's just a 'dash', so I wouldn't think much of it. Do we even know that Goblins have long lifespans? (Aside from the fact that every freaking race in fantasy is longer-lived that humans.) I'd tend to think he's gone by now, since he was around with the Marauders & co., and the limit of teachers' tenures from what we can see is 40 years, 50 on the long end. He'd be gone.

Arithmancy, Ancient Runes, and Astronomy we can leave alone, as postulated in the recruitment thread. I flipped through the list of students older than Harry who were at Hogwarts during his school years... none of them jump out as useful for our purposes. One of the Chaser girls could be DADA, since they were in DA, I suppose... following the example of the books, though, it should probably be a character we've never heard of before. I could never see Harry teaching full-time... he was uncomfortable enough getting started teaching his peers, even if he *is* good at it. (Harry's not much of a go-getter, really... has to be prodded into everything.) Hermione is working in Magical Law Enforcement, apparently, and in any event didn't actually continue with Muggle Studies. She's an expert Muggle, but what's she know about Muggle Studies?

Thoughts on the magic systems above appreciated... :smallsmile:

[ForzaFiori]

As cool as having Harry or Hermione teach would be, JKR already came out in an interview and said Harry & Ron are Aurors, and Hermione is the wizard equivalent of an attorney.

Also, if Hagrid is still there teaching CoMC, then he should also be Gamekeeper still.

[Ditto]

Apparently, Ron worked with George at the joke shop now. The webchat interview Rowling gave yesterday apparently contradicts her earlier GMA interview... I like joke-shop-Ron better. He's hardly a good enough battlewizard to be an Auror.

Oh, and also: Apparently the subject Quirrell taught before his leave of absence was Muggle Studies. Now you know.

[Druid_lord]

I could use some help with brewin' some Dresden file spells into HP
Fuego: Creates. a stream of fire
Fozare: the target is hit with raw force and knocked back.
????(can't find me copy of white night, elaine casts it in the scene where she's attacked by the skavis): Creates a green orb of lighting on the target.
more to come: full of win they are

[jindra34]

I could use some help with brewin' some Dresden file spells into HP
Fuego: Creates. a stream of fire
Fozare: the target is hit with raw force and knocked back.
????(can't find me copy of white night, elaine casts it in the scene where she's attacked by the skavis): Creates a green orb of lighting on the target.
more to come: full of win they are

Dresden spells are not based on words alone. Each wizard choses their own words. its more emotion based.

[Druid_lord]

That might be the case, but these particular spells i think would be a good offensive boost to HP. It doesnt exactly fit the Dresden universe but to cary them over some changes have to be made for a smooth transition.

[jindra34]

That might be the case, but these particular spells i think would be a good offensive boost to HP. It doesnt exactly fit the Dresden universe but to cary them over some changes have to be made for a smooth transition.

It would be easy to meld dresden and potter id you could work out how to combine the two sets of laws and two councils.

[Ditto]

Those spells already exist in Incendio/Dolohov's spell and Impedimenta/Expelliarmus, respectively. Any other fun effects? I've never seen Dresden. Is there a list of his spells, like HP's?

[jindra34]

Those spells already exist in Incendio/Dolohov's spell and Impedimenta/Expelliarmus, respectively. Any other fun effects? I've never seen Dresden. Is there a list of his spells, like HP's?

not a list so much as tendencies. Dresden tends to use fire and wind a lot. the primary thing in Dresden is Skill vs. Power. and the dresden files are 8 an book long series about a wizard in chicago.

[Ditto]

Fire-throwing is fun, but targeted spells are the way to go in HP. Wind spells are definitely lacking, but swinging your wand to conjure a sweeping gust of wind would be tricky work. I'd sweep your opponent with a wave of water from Aguamenti. Being sopping wet is certain annoying, and a jet of water will certainly foul you up for a few seconds. Plus, very little need to aim! :smallbiggrin:

[Druid_lord]

Whereas Ramieraz is powerfull, not qiute as much as Dresden but more skilled, and he uses green bolts of lightning(avada Kadavra, i guess) There are also invisiblity spells and mind spells(imperio( which are dresden's apprentice, molly's special thing. . I suppose we could have wizards develop thier own personal spell(or spells) that reflect thier personality. Thier own personal signitaure spell, something that sets them aside from the random NPC students. The only one i can think of that can't be directly linked to HP is the lightning orb one. However Fozare is quite differnt from Expelliarmus. E only nocks back with gret power, whereas fozare is just smashing stuff , huh i guess you could say its a combination of reducto and expelliarmus, actually. And to respond to jindra34 i'm not exactlly merging, just adding a few concepts and seeing what happens.

[jindra34]

Whereas Ramieraz is powerfull, not qiute as much as Dresden but more skilled, and he uses green bolts of lightning(avada Kadavra, i guess) There are also invisiblity spells and mind spells(imperio( which are dresden's apprentice, molly's special thing. . I suppose we could have wizards develop thier own personal spell(or spells) that reflect thier personality. Thier own personal signitaure spell, something that sets them aside from the random NPC students. The only one i can think of that can't be directly linked to HP is the lightning orb one. However Fozare is quite differnt from Expelliarmus. E only nocks back with gret power, whereas fozare is just smashing stuff , huh i guess you could say its a combination of reducto and expelliarmus, actually. And to respond to jindra34 i'm not exactlly merging, just adding a few concepts and seeing what happens.

You forgot Elaine and her tricks... she has some of the meanest spells in the books but not the power to maintain them (example: thirty foot long 10 foot in radius horizontal tornado).

[terror_drone]

Okay just posting this to keep your eyes on the front page as I'm (at random times for the remainder of the day) updating the posts for various things.

[Ditto]

Is it worth listing all of the spells in HP if we won't be able to use many of them, and don't yet have working spell definitions?

Also, I'd add an area in the Spell post for the other discipline's effects. Potions, Herbology, DADA, and Transfiguration have some pretty definable effects that can be ranked. I threw some samples together in my big Magic post.

[terror_drone]

Is it worth listing all of the spells in HP if we won't be able to use many of them, and don't yet have working spell definitions?

My hope is that by some time tonight Ill have their definitions up tonight, as for how many of them you are using well you wont start out with them but it won't take too long to learn spells if you go about doing it right. Remember Potter learned Accio in roughly a day and a half, and while there are some I will be keeping out of your reach (there is no reason for 11 year olds to know how to kill people just yet).

Also could some post a link to the interview? Cause I mean I might just ignore it (I had plans for Harry/Ron/name characters who actual jobs weren't in the books) but I would still like to see it.

[Ditto]

http://www.veritaserum.com/media/2007/07/jkrowlingchat07-30-07.shtml As far as having characters show up in your world, JKR has stated that Harry *does* do the lecture circuit and stop by Hogwarts now and again.

Actually, Harry had a lot of trouble getting Accio straight, and Flitwick didn't teach them Summoning until 4th year. :smallfrown:

[terror_drone]

Yeah he had trouble, but then he and Herminone studied/practiced it for (IIRC) 1 1/2 days and he became pretty flawless at it.

[CASTLEMIKE]

The ToB Sword Sage arcane adaption could work for spellcasting without reinventing the wheel.

[ForzaFiori]

So, background students get to die just because they're not PCs? People don't need fate points to survive most times at Hogwarts... I don't think HP is the way to go (hit points, that is), since people are more often banged up or stunned (small s) or bruised, I think statuses like in SWd6 and M&M would be better. Getting stunned really is the way you lose at life in Harry Potter, not Con damage. It really *shouldn't* feel like D&D. They're not terrifically comparable.

I’ve come up with some ideas for the magic system, leveling, and spell lists. PEACH!

To represent development in magical prowess, there are three levels per year, roughly working out to Halloween, Christmas, and Easter, if everyone is developing at the same rate. (For more and less gifted wizards and witches, I’ll have come up with some adaptation, but for simplicity’s sake I’m assuming that everyone is at the same place.) Your level is computed be the formula (Year x 3) – 2, as doodled in below. The thirds correspond with the holidays.

{table=head]Year|Level|Year|Level

1|1|4 1/3|11

1 1/3|2|4 2/3|12

1 2/3|3|5|13

2|4|5 1/3|14

2 1/3|5|5 2/3|15

2 2/3|6|6|16

3|7|6 1/3|17

3 1/3|8|6 2/3|18

3 2/3|9|7|19

4|10|7 1/3|20

-|-|7 2/3|21 [/table]

We’ve tossed out some ideas of relative spell levels (I like your basic logic, Curtmack), and we’ll need a proper list eventually, so I put together some Charms, DADA (dueling spells), and potions based roughly on when they were introduced in the books. There honestly aren’t a *whole* lot more out there, so our spell lists are going to be relatively short until we start homebrewing some (or decide that the current spell lists are plenty useful for our purposes). There’s lots of room to expand Transfiguration (too many effects for my lazy self to look up right now), Potions, and Herbology. DADA and Charms are pretty well defined already.

Sample Charms
{table=head]Level 0|Level 1|Level 2|Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Lumos|Wingardium|Reparo|Diffindo|Confundo|Evanesco |Aguamenti

Flagrate|Alohamora|Incendio|Locomotor|Accio| Silencio|Muffliato[/table]

Sample DADA
{table=head]Level 1|Level 2 |Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Expelliarmus|Petrificus Tot|Finite Inc.|Protego|Stupefy|Levicorpus

Furnunculus|Impedimenta|Reducto|Incarcerous|Langlo ck|Confringo[/table]

Sample Potions
{table=head]Level 1|Level 2|Level 3|Level 4|Level 5|Level 6

Forgetfulness |Sleeping|Shrinking|Strengthening |Polyjuice|Living Death [/table]

I want to divorce the standard 6 abilities from the magic process as much as possible. It’s largely pointless to have all of those Smart and Dedicated Heroes running around together, hm? That’s not an accurate representation of Hogwarts. It’s not even about being optimized – you can’t play as a wizard without a strong mental stat, which severely limits how you spend your buy-points. Perhaps the ability mod could have some influence, but there are many ways to cast the same spell in most cases. For this reason, I propose magic is allocated through Magic skill points – distinct from mundane skill points. I’m mixed on how to assign different amounts of skill points, since there should be *some* variation in natural ability, with some other kind of payoff.

Combinations of natural talent could be a good reflection of this. Having options for specialization seems obvious, as reflected in the characters throughout the series. These might be considered feats, but it doesn’t really make sense to choose more than one (you can’t start stacking specialties). There will certainly be feats that specifically boost your casting (a la Spell Focus) on top of these ‘Knacks’. These would be bonuses, either giving a free point of reducing the costs of ranks, and presumably some drawback;since not everyone would like to take one of the prescribed knacks and it would be unfair to let some have this and not others. I’m overthinking it, I guess, trying to keep the characters in mind. It would be just as easy to allow two ‘favored schools’ at creation. A few ideas I had, quickly and sloppily jammed into character models:

Knacks
{table=head]Harry|Hermione|Ron|Neville|Luna|Ginny|Cedric

DADA|Charms|Good at|Herbology|CoMC|DADA|Charms

Potions|Transfig’n|nothing.|DADA|Transfig’n|Charms |Herbology[/table]

The disciplines are organized as in my earlier post in the chart below.

Magic skills
{table=head]
Wandwork|Handiwork|Thinkwork|
Bookwork


Spelling|
Handle|
Discern|
Reading


Charms|
Potions|
Arithmancy|
Muggle Studies


Transfiguration|
Herbology|
A. Runes|
Astronomy


DADA|
CoMC|
Divination|
History o' Magic[/table]

The first two categories are the key ones, and contain the core subjects (plus CoMC). ‘Caster’ level is determined by a wizard’s strength in each of the four magic studies categories and its corresponding Magic Ability Score (Wandwork – Spelling, Handiwork – Handle Magical Thingie, Thinkwork – Discern, or Bookwork - Reading), and adding to it the Magic Skill ranks placed into the derivative fields of magic (which applies to Charms, Potions, Divination, and Astronomy, et al.).

Thus, a wizard focusing in Wandwork might have 2 points in Spelling, and 3 more points in Charms, and 2 points apiece in DADA and Transfiguration. This makes her caster level for Charms 5, and DADA and Transfiguration both 4. At character creation, ranks in Stats and Skills will be cheaper than raising them in the course of the game. Stat raising costs more than Skills, since it affects three Skill-categories. Additionally, different schools of magic (the four categories) will have different costs, because Thinkwork and Bookwork will be terrifically unpopular and deserve to be cheaper – or conversely, Wandwork and Handiwork are harder from a magic point of view, and the point values should demonstrate increased investment.

A spell/potion/plant will have a Learn DC in order to master it. A caster level check then goes something like this:
Learn DC vs. Magic stat + Magic skill + Level
There will be a natural creep through the year as the wizard levels up, allowing him to gain magical abilities in areas he may not be focusing on heavily. This prevents having a completely unbalanced wizard with Charms 15 and Herbology 2. (We’d like to think that some of the schooling rubs off each year, so you learn something even if by accident) I’m still sorting out how to compute the start DCs to learn a given spell. I feel like adding all those stats to 1d20 would give too much variation, and you might ‘get lucky’ and learn a spell very quickly… In any event, it will definitely take some significant amount of ‘time’ to master a spell (perhaps level x2 days)

You may attempt to cast a spell you do not know, assuming you’ve been exposed to it in some way. (Fudge the rules for ‘familiar with…’ from Polymorph, say.) The limit will be the spell must be no more than one (or two?) level(s) higher than your current spell level. That’ll be something like 1d20 + Stat + Skill vs. Learn DC +5 (or +10, depending on how that’s balanced). This allows you to pull of fun feats of magic in desperate circumstances as last ditch moves – or to experiment with things above your level. This will hopefully strike a balance between accessibility and reliability – if you really plan on having this spell/potion/effect in your arsenal, then you’d better invest the Stat and Skill points necessary to improve it permanently.

There will be expanded rules for botches; botches are the best part of magic! A natural 1 will be some sort of spectacular disaster – blowback from your wand, getting a chomp from the Venomous Tentacula, the shrinking solution turns you into a toad… on a 2-5, the spell fails with some interesting display, but nothing disastrous. You’ll be laughed at by friends and enemies. If you’re currently learning the spell, you get a +5 (or such) representing your furthered knowledge of that spell.

aaand that’s what I’ve got so far. Respond! :smallbiggrin:

thought of another potion man.
i wanna be able to make veritaserum, though it'd be like level 7.

[Druid_lord]

I have been working out a system for a 'sig" spell with TD. Your sig spell starts out rather week in first year, but "levels up as you go into the next year, up untill 7th where it is very, very, powerfull. For example, my sig spell is a bolt of lightning that shocks and throws the target back. At first year it causes a painfull shock and the target is pushed back about a foot, 2nd year , more power and it pushess back a little further. 3rd year more power,, target is thrown back 3 feet, 4th, more power, knocks target of feet. and so on and so forth.

[ForzaFiori]

I have been working out a system for a 'sig" spell with TD. Your sig spell starts out rather week in first year, but "levels up as you go into the next year, up untill 7th where it is very, very, powerfull. For example, my sig spell is a bolt of lightning that shocks and throws the target back. At first year it causes a painfull shock and the target is pushed back about a foot, 2nd year , more power and it pushess back a little further. 3rd year more power,, target is thrown back 3 feet, 4th, more power, knocks target of feet. and so on and so forth.

like how harry's expeliarmus went from taking a wand out of someones hand to knocking an AK back at Voldy?

[Ditto]

That works great for blasting spells (any DADA stuff), but is a First Year's Potion going to grow in potency? Why make a 'better' Sleeping Solution when you can brew the Draught of Living Death? Transfiguration doesn't work with 'signature' spells, either... Hermione had her Bluebell flames first year, and they didn't change.

It's difficult to even come up with an effect that scales to level, much less offer the ability to every student. Honestly, *nobody* does it - experimenting is for dedicated scholar wizards and advanced students. Not everyone is Hermione or Snape, experiementing far beyond their ken - and people don't spend their time duelling, so there's no impetus to even develop the main sort of spell that would demonstrate this personal flair. There are very few examples of unique spells in the series, and it's honestly a rather distracting mechanic. Spellcrafting and Weaponsmithing in D&D are such ancillary skills that I'm not even sure where to find them.

EDIT: mf11, that had nothing to do with Harry's casting - it was the Elder Wand refusing to attack Harry, and this bouncing the curse instead. This might be an example of a spell that could scale with level (and stacks, when several people co-cast), since like Impedimenta it has shown several related but distinct effects (knocking the wand away-> Shoving the target-> Blowing the target into the air / Invisible stumbling block-> Invisible wall-> Repelling wall).

[Druid_lord]

We could make it that you have a ne special every year , and a new uniqe charm every year, and stick with what i already have ofr blasting. And the whole conept of this is something unique that sets our chars aside from the npcs. We cant be famous or fight voldermort, so we need something to start with to put us in the center of things.

[Ditto]

That's what backgrounds and RP are for. There are dozens of ways to use even the most basic spells - you get a 'unique' spell by being clever with the existing ones. Sure, we don't get to fight Voldemort. But there are other problems, and as PCs it's up to us to overcome them - so we find some dire rats in the dungeons, or kick Peeves out of the Great Hall, whatever. We and the GM will make sure that our characters are important enough to merit our status as awesome.

There aren't enough spells around in Harry Potter to spread the magic out over 7 years - my quick tally for my magic system came up with maybe three charms per year, three hexes, two potions, one shrub, two creatures... the pickings are thin, and any new inventions should be spells/potions/stuff that 'already exists' and is available to everyone.

We're getting new spells every year as it is. That's the point of advancing in school. Every practical spell that could be created has already been created, or it will be created by a very clever student - who's not 11 years old.

[Druid_lord]

I think that some leveled spells make sense. You get stronger, every year and therefor better at casting spells. The custom spellls are there for anyone who wants one i geuss. The whole point of them is to give each char a spell that really fits how they play perfectly. I was also maybe thinking of making a 'gifted' thing for the differnt types of magic, A leveled personal spell for DADA( or we could make a list of some new ones to be leveled), for charms you can cast spells one or two levels higher as if they were your level, .And for Transfiguration, you can work your way up to an Animangus.
What do you think?

[Ditto]

Animagus is certainly something you could work on in NEWT studies. Conjuration, another facet I'd really love to build into my character, is unfortunately NEWT level also. Those won't be in reach for some time. James Potter and Sirius took years to master it, acheiving it in their 5th year ONLY because Potter was an extremely talented wizard all around, and particularly so in Transfiguration. Snapes custom spells were, again, *extremely* abnormal for a wizard his age.

Also, spells increasing with level doesn't need a new mechanic - you see it in D&D with damage spells increasing 1d6/2 caster levels, or durations increasing 10 minutes/caster level, etc. Custom spells might be possible when you're approaching OWLs, but underclassmen simply don't have the background to develop impressive spells on their own - they've only just gotten their wands. It's the equivalent of getting on a bicycle for the first time and then talking about customizing your Harley the next day.

Indeed, feats for specialization in disciplines that would up your available caster level seem a given.

Veritaserum would be a NEWT level potion, as would Amortentia and Felix Felicis. We were exposed to a couple of neat ones in HBP, but I only added in one potion per level as examples. :smallsmile:

EDIT: I definitely recommend taking a look at how the HP d20 efforts are going on the Wizards boards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=886189), they have some neat ideas too.

I updated my magic system post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52118&page=2#44) to include Mental ablity scores. For those who want casting to still be tied to Int, Wis, and Cha (even if only a little), I've aligned the three courses in each category with one of those stats.

[Istari]

How would we do the rules on werewolfs. Also, how would we do the metamorph abilty that Tonks possesed.(sry if i'm wrong with the abilitys name)

[Ditto]

Both werewolves and Metamorphmagi are absurdly rare, along the lines of Half-Giants and Part-Veela. Like them, it should carry some sort of level adjustment - and since any potential levels in the game wouldn't work the same way D&D does, it's really just not worth the trouble - or possible to balance. Each of the four races have special abilities that far outstrip their peers, and that's probably why Hogwarts has seen exactly one of each in the past 50 years.

[Valairn]

It is relevant to mention that this type of a game breaks down in a level system. HP from a system standpoint is very skill/practice dependent. You may suck at it now, but if you practice for a day or two you'll get better. Some people just don't have the aptitude for spellcasting though, or they can cast, but they require much more effort to do it. Ability scores make a difference, in fact every ability score matters, it just depends on the spell.

Skills/Attributes are the definers of what a wizard can do. That's why there are wizard geniuses who far outpace their piers, because they have high attributes. James Potter was an extremely skilled wizard, but no one calls him a smarty mc smart pants, he was probably moderately intelligent with a powerful charisma. Hermione on the other hand overcomes what could be a tragic charisma with superior intelligence and has that same knack that James probably had of picking up new spells and applying them creatively.

Harry himself... well he's honestly a fairly mediocre wizard thrust into extrodinary circumstances. His one strong point is once he masters a spell, its very very good, in fact better than mosts, and he's actually fairly wise for a kid his age. He's strong willed. Every wizard will suffer from MAD honestly. And spell-casting in HP world is broad based. Take these things into consideration before you try and make a one mechanic fits all for spell-casting, I think it won't be HP at all if you try that.

[ravenkith]

Honestly, I have no problem with a ton of dedicated and smart characters ending up at the school.

I mean, think about it: even in the Potterverse, magical talent is rare. We're already talking about 1 child in 100,000, right there.

Then, we have to consider the ratio of squibs to full-on wizards.

Finally, we have to consider that not all magical children are invited to Hogwarts.

Several times, there have been references made to lists, and invitations...both terms which imply a certain amount of exclusivity.

Plus, stupid children with magical abilities would probably not often survive to the age of 11--we are, after all, talking about kids with the ability to make glass disappear and break tree-limbs off with enough precision to endanger their target, for openers.

One angry conversation in a car, and people could very well end up dead. In the wizarding world, looks can kill.

That's why the dumb brutes, Crabbe & Goyle, are the exception, not the rule: most of the kids at Hogwarts are actually pretty smart (Hermione, INT), pretty wise (Neville, WIS), or just plain pretty (Parvatis, CHA).

<shrug>.

IIRC, Star Wars D20 had (has) a skill-based force system that might be of help in figuring out the magic system for a Potterverse game.

Animagi, Metamorphs, Half-Giants and Veela are all best represented by level adjusted templates. Simply start all games at third level, and give +! or +2 values as determined by the usefulness of the template to a wizard.

Half-Veela should clearly be +4CHA, -2 CON...+2 to bluff and diplomacy and charms, (if youre doing magic as skills) and a fascinate ability 3/x, a la hynotic pattern, with a save based on cha. They should probably come with an LA of +2.

Half-giants, on the other hand, would get a +4 STR, + 4 CON, -2 Int -2 wis, -2cha...and the powerful build class feature. all at a +1 LA, since STR and CON are no longer the most important stats in the game.

Animagi? Alter self, limited to one specific animal chosen at creation? Hrm... +4 to transfiguration...+4 to handle animal (comc)...+1 la.

Metamorphs? unlimited access to disguise self as a spell like ability...+4 on transfiguration +4 on disguise. LA + 1

just some thoughts...

[InaVegt]

I believe animorph should be an advanced or prestige class, as according to the books it is something learned, rather than you are born with.

Template: yer born with it or you gained it through circumstances beyond your control.

Class: You learned to do this, and trained for it.

[curtmack]

Here's a thought. Just say anything in Latin and point a wand. There's your spells system. :smallbiggrin:

The other thing we need to work out - "metamagic feats." For example, in the book 6, they try to work on subvocalization. Just a thought.

[Ditto]

Metamorphmagi don't just Disguise Self, they freaking Polymorph. A pruned version, that is, but it's certainly no lower then Alter Self, capabilities-wise. They can shift their height, weight, race, and gender easy-as-you-please, not just hair and noses. I'd give them +10 to Disguise (can you imagine the fun in D&D with a Hat of Alter Self?), and +4 to *personal* Transfiguration effects. Changing your hair blue doesn't necessarily help with conjuring chairs from thin air. If Veela are +2, then Metamorphmagi should be at least that.

Veela sound alright. Half-giants are pretty good, but don't forget the spell resistance. Animagi as Alternate Form also sounds fine, make it an acquired +1 Template? Losing a level might be a tad harsh, considering they earned that power; something more like a prestige class (that is, having strong prereqs including stellar Transfiguration and significant Research (the mundane skill)) would be more appropriate, I think.

Vilairn: It's not leveling up so much as completing the quest, and graduating to the next category of challenges. It should be very difficult to learn techniques independent of teachers, because the students for the most part aren't taking the initiative. They're not adventurers, they're students, and should gain their experience as such. The reason leveling matters is that certain spells simply aren't available at earlier years, because they haven't been introduced - even if you're terrifically competent, it doesn't mean you have access to the knowledge necessary to put it all together.

Ability scores are *not* what makes a wizard - as you say, Valairn, HP is highly practice-related. The scores are definitely a part of their magical ability (hence why I added them to my magic chart), but it's the work you put into it more than potential 9 times out of 10. James Potter had some pretty serious Int - he was Head Boy, that's just how it is. Harry's casting stat, I would say, is Wisdom. (Incidentally, DADA is a Wisdom magic in my system. :smallbiggrin: ) His skills are largely intuitive, and his mediocre Int explains weak and average skill respectively in Potions and Transfiguration (Int), and solid marks in Charms (Cha). You can break down magic ability by category (Wandwork, Handiwork, etc.) on the one axis and Ability scores on the other, providing a cross section of synergistic powers.

Ravenkith: *Every* student on the British Isles who is born with magical ability gets an invite to Hogwarts. Not everyone accepts, apparently, but those turn-downs are the exception rather than the rule. There are next to no squibs - only slightly less rare than Half-Giants and Part-Veelas. Children to not frequently kills themselves accidentally - in fact, they're quite durable. Wizards bonuce, remember? :smallamused: That's one of the things I disagree with in the Wizards' boards' plan, a d4 hit die. These are not people who sit holed up reading books all day - the engage in practice too. It's just the difference between having, like 5 spells a day at first level and unlimited castings.

JKR has quite explicitly made Hogwarts a microcosm of Britain - if you take a look at the essay 'Secrets of the Classlist' over at HPL, you'll see how meticulous her choices are. The makeup of the school's population should generally reflect that of the population at large. Crabbe and Goyle are Strong Heroes, yup. And some of the Quidditch players might be Fast more than anything else. But the fact is, they come in all sorts, and Smart Heroes are the only ones that can truly excel in wizarding. The feats for D20 modern are severely limiting. We'll have to come up with a whole new set of special abilities/skill trees. Skill trees might be an opportunity for specializing magic, rather than making it a flat feat - advanced transfiguration might move in the direction of conjuration, switching spells, or animagus-ry.

Int is the dominant stat in wizarding ability - but indirectly, because it grants more skill points. Skills are things you practice, and thus fit the HP magic rubrik of practice, practice, practice. Neville is limited by is unexceptional Int to only excelling in a Wis-based discipline (Herbology) and later DADA (presumably after he gets his +1 to an ability score at 4th level - er, year. :smallamused: ) Being Pretty does not make you magical, so Cha is right out in that sense. It's definitely force of personality - you're able to impress your will on the target and make it move how you want it to (Charms and CoMC!). Crabbe and Goyle are Strong Heroes, yup. And some of the Quidditch players might be Fast more than anything else. But the fact is, they come in all sorts, and Smart Heroes are the only ones that can truly excel in wizarding. The feats for D20 modern are severely limiting. We'll have to come up with a whole new set of special abilities/skill trees. Skill trees might be an opportunity for specializing magic, rather than making it a flat feat - advanced transfiguration might move in the direction of conjuration, switching spells, or animagus-ry.

I've played the d6 Star Wars, and if the basics survived into d20, then it's similar to my plan. You have a set of skill points completely distinct from your Search, Spot, and Listen; you choose a broad focus (again, Wandwork and Handiwork), and then specialize in areas therein by adding skill points on top of the category's blanket bonus.

And finally, Curtmack... let's just get regular magic straightened out before we start down the road toward Divine MetaCheese. :smallamused:

This is great, guys... we're really getting some good ideas flowing! :smallsmile:

[ravenkith]

OTOH, I personally, am not that familiar with d20 naruto...

which is probably limiting my ability to help.

If the anime was really translated into any other system, mutants and masterminds is the one I'd use...

So I am mentally trying to kludge M&M into an HP RPG.

Truthfully, other than the basic mechanics of D20, I believe the HP rules need an all new set of rules.

In my head I have visions of putting together a crack team of boards members and writing up and entire Potterverse player's book....

but in reality I'd rather have someone else do it (Terror) and just enjoy the fruits of their labor: especially as it's unlikely to ever become something you can turn a profit on.

:smallfrown:

[Ditto]

The Wizards folks have taken a strongly D&D bent to this project (go figure), which seems to be workable. They've already found the basic spells and how to adapt them from D&D spells. But I agree, this needs to be built from the ground up... something will happily remain the same, but unlimited magic is sort of a new thing, AFAIK. Naruto seems to have gone wild with their manuevers, so here's hoping we can find some folks with ideas for homebrew potions.

[Zopz]

I agree with everything Ditto says. He has some great ideas in his "big-magic post". I agree that little kids shouldn't have access to big powerful spells(fidelous/unforgivable curses) until after hogwarts. I hate the idea of specialization and hit points for this game. The specialization ditto gave was good for harrypotter purposes. I also like the level-up chart of ditto's, because it would eliminate the thought of having to fight and do quests for experience. I also think that we don't need to much home-brewing of spells as much, because if were getting 2 dada spells,2 charms, 2 transfigurations, 1 potion, 1 plant a year or a little more then its enough. I think we should divorce the ideas of muggle-born vs purebloods as a race, there human pure and simple. I think working up a very small wand mechanic would be nice(i.e. +1 in a magic skill). I have also come up with some simple races

Human(Muggles, muggle-born, pureblood ect.)
Phb standard

Half-Giant
-2 Cha, -2 int, +2 Str, +2 Con
Spell immunity: a half-giant can negate a spell if he is 2 levels or more above the caster once per two rounds.
I know this seems kinda too good but the cha and int negatives effect a the character more in this game more than str and con do so i gave him the stun immune.

Half-veela, Centaurs, Giants: These don't work well as pc's because of absurd rarity. Half-veela would just be pretty much humans. Fleur may have been pretty but she didn't have the whole veela charm thing going for her.

I think we don't need the d20 classes(strong, smart). I don't think we even need classes for this, there I said it. I think the only thing we need is a unified wizard class. I will make a suggestion on a class then I will leave you alone.

HP Wizard
2 magic point per level to be allocated to the four skills as such(1 point per magic skill level to wandwork or handiwork, or 1/2 a magic point per magic skill level to thinkwork or bookwork). There is no limit to magic skill points in one of those category's.
Skills: (4+ Int Bonus x 4 at first level)+ (4+ int bonus skill points per level)
Wizard Skills( Spot(Wis), Listem(Wis), search(Wis), Spellcraft(Charms)(Int) Spellcraft(transfiguration)(Wis),Spellcraft(Dada)( Cha), Handle(CoMc)(Cha) Handle(Herbology)(Wis), Craft(Potions)(Int), Knowledge(Arithmacy, Muggle Studies, Astronomy, History of magic)(Int), Divination(Cha), Decipher Script(Ancient Runes), Research, Flying(Broom)

I also had some Ideas for prestige classes like
Animagus: unlimited polymorph to chosen animal. requirements-certain level Spellcraft(transfiguration) and a 4th year or higher


We can evolve from that, but this gives everyone the ability to expand in the potterverse.

[ravenkith]

Sweet. 2nd term I coined; first was 'purple' lightsaber' and now it's 'potterverse' :)

This makes me strangely happy. :smallsmile:

[psychoticbarber]

Okay, some points after a first reading (some of these have been addressed, but I'm going to address them to).

One of the most important things to remember about the Potterverse is that what matters in being a successful witch or wizard is (ordered hurriedly in order of importance, but not exactly)

1) Ingenuity. It doesn't matter if such-and-such a wizard is technically better at tossing off the spells than you, if you have a flexible repertoire of spells and an imagination affecting how and when you use them, you're going to win.

2) Magical Skill. If you're good at magic, you'll, well, be good at magic.

3) Magical Knowledge. The more you know, the more weapons you have at your beck and call.

4) The Heart of the Cards.

Just kidding. 4 is actually reflexes. You might have the power to shape mountains, but if somebody stuns you before you use it, you're toast.


Now, to address Potterbat (Potter Combat?).

In the books, what I see looks something like this

Wizard A attacks, Wizard B attempts to defend.

The results of Wizard A's attack are compared to the results of Wizard B's defense.

Outcomes: (Lets pretend the mechanic is Offensive spell result - Defensive spell result)
a) +15 or more: Overwhelming success, full spell effect.
b) +6 to +15: Marginal Success, minor spell effect (advantage to attacker)
c) -5 to +5: No real positive or negative effect
d) -6 to -15: Marginal failure, minor backlash (advantage to defender)
e) -15 or more: Overwhelming failure, major backlash (possibly a counterattack?)

Examples:
A) Harry attempts to disarm Neville (in, we'll say book 2 :smallwink:). Magical skills are compared (whatever this ends up meaning) and Potter's overwhelmingly successful. Neville's wand goes flying.

B) Hermione attempts to disarm Ron. Magical skills are compared and Hermione wins, but not like Potter's crushing defeat of Neville. Ron hangs on to his wand but is staggered and cannot reply at full force.

C) Draco tries to disarm Harry, magical skills are compared and Harry successfully protects himself but is unable to affect Draco in return.

D) Hermione then attempts to disarm Harry. Magical skills are compared, and Harry has no troubles hanging on to his wand. The result puts Hermione off a little, though, and her defense will not be at full force in the next round.

E) Harry attempts to disarm Dumbledore. Magical skills are compared, and Dumbledore laughs as he sends Harry a little gift in reply (still on Harry's turn).

Then the roles reverse. Each Wizard can only focus one spell on one opponent at a time, unless the spell affects multiple opponents. (Example: Voldemort can only kill Harry, Ron, OR Hermione THIS turn).

Multiple wizards can attack a single wizard, but each can only do so with one spell. (Example: Six stunning spells hit Hagrid square in the chest, and finally he fell).

Many, many, many bonuses should be available for using the correct spell (or an imaginative use of an incorrect spell) at the correct time. Think like Risus (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) on this scale.

Defense against a spell should also, to a small degree, be governed by reflexes. Harry's Protego is useless if it doesn't get up before whatever gets thrown at him.

I'll try to make this coherent tomorrow, I promise.

[Zopz]

Potterverse, potterbat, man what a potterworld we live in.

After reading the potter combat thing I think that might be pretty good, but its not up to me lets here what Terror_Drone says.

[Sir_Norbert]

Sweet. 2nd term I coined; first was 'purple' lightsaber' and now it's 'potterverse' :)

This makes me strangely happy. :smallsmile:
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's been around for years.

[ravenkith]

Way to rain on my parade.

Do you go around telling little kids there's no santa claus, too? ;)

[psychoticbarber]

Do you go around telling little kids there's no santa claus, too? ;)

I do that IN A SANTA SUIT :smallwink:.


(Heading this off right away, of course I don't actually do that, it would horrendously cruel and not in my nature)

[curtmack]

3) Magical Knowledge. The more you know, the more weapons you have at your beckon call.

Sorry, irrational pet peeve. I like your idea though.

[ravenkith]

:smallfrown:

[psychoticbarber]

A pet peeve that is also wrong.

Check your facts before you call some one out on their use of language. In this case, he's got the correct usage, and you've made a mistake.

Just one of my 'pet peeves'.

Really? ... Because I meant "Beck and call"... but if I was right, and have heretofore been wrong, I will happily remember that in the future.

Edit: According to this (http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/more.html), I was wrong, he was right, and what I intended (beck and call) is the correct usage.

Edit x2: I am, at this juncture, officially dropping the conversation on "beckon call" and "beck and call"...it doesn't further the aims of this thread.

[Ditto]

It's cool, Ravenkith. We still have purple lightsabre to play with, a worthy phrase if ever any was. :smallbiggrin:

I like your thinking, Zopz :smallwink: I'm debating the idea of Magic Stat class skills... I think if I go with the idea of Knacks (as a special ability for 1st level characters, or else a 1st level feat) it will halve the cost of Magic Skill ranks for any two classes. For the mundane skills, 4+Int sound about right. I do NOT want Magic Skill/Stat points to have anything to do with Int, though. I've decided to add in the Mental Stat bonuses to determining the total magic score for each discipline, but that's as far as I want them involved. (For instance, the stat will be Wandwork + Charms + Cha mod.) These casting levels, along with some sort of Year(level) limit, will determine what spells you can cast as per the table in my first post with sample spell lists. Handiwork in particular will benefit from leveling increases, since Potions, Herbology, and CoMC are more given to situational skill checks than Wandwork.

I'm thinking of redoing the level scale for 20 levels, 4 per year, from 3rd to 7the year. (Screw 1st and 2nd years. Seriously, did the Trio even cast magic then? You'd have to spend 6 levels with nothing but (equivalently) Mending, Light, and baby-Knock.) Everyone starts at 3rd year - this also allows us to start with all of the magic disciplines, which is just a bit tidier. You choose any 2 (or 3) of the electives (CoMC, Arith, A.Runes, Div, Muggle St.) as your 'class skills', and cannot put magic points in the other 2-3.

Experience point-wise, I'm thinking a slightly more dramatic scale for point allocations. Magic Stats (Wandwork et al.) and skills within the same category (Charms + Transfiguration + DADA etc.) cost as follows, per category:

Wandwork - 9 (stat), 2 (skills)
Handiwork - 6 (stat), 1 (skills)
Thinkwork - 2 (stat), 1/2 (skills)
Bookwork - 2 (stat), 1/2 (skills)

These numbers are tentative, since I'm trying to work out the balance of how many points to give at character creation and how many per level. You get one point in every Stat and Skill at creation for free. (You ignore points in unused electives, obviously.) Beyond that, you can put up to 3 points in any Stat, and 3 points in any skill. For a character with a mental stat array of 16-14-12 (in some order), the default level for any subject will thus be 1+1+(3/2/1) = 5/4/3. Ranks in Stat and Skill will probably add 2 or 3 more, with a max for any subject at 3+3+(3/2/1) = 9/8/7. The cap will raise one Skill point per level, and one Rank point per every... 2? Again, I'm working the balance still. I want the two options of how players might spend their points to be roughly equal (always leveling up the (expensive) Stats for a generalist, or focusing on skills for a specialist.) Feats will allow you to raise those caps, say by two points in a given skill or two. When I was trying to balance the costs for Wandwork alone, I found 15 points/level wasn't a terrible number. I'm going to play with my fancy little spreadsheet (it's admittedly a lot of math...) and see how the other three disciplines should factor in.

Obviously, the latter two disciplines aren't of any real use at present. I really want to make them somewhat desirable, because even though it's just a few points you'd be 'dumping' into them, students should be able to learn *something* from all areas of their curriculum. (A possiblity is some synergy with the Research skill, which should be somewhat necessary for learning any new spell.) Wandwork is the most expensive because it is the most versatile, but Handiwork should not be underestimated either.

I'll try to post some mock ups of focused vs. generalists at different levels later. (Actually, I'm going to be away for a weak, so *rather* later.) If anyone would like to help me out and play with my shiny Excel spreadsheet, it'd be might nifty of y'all. I'm just looking for people to try it out and see how it works out for them. If you'd like to see it, shoot me an e-mail and I'll get you one - hover247 (at) yahoo (dot) com.

psychoticbarber - I really like this. It certainly has the makings of some good duelling. There'll have to be some sort of BAB equivalent, mixed with the DADA rank. It doesn't make sense to go fully either way... This might also be a place to introduce saves. The defense bonus from d20 modern might be the ONE thing we can actually save from that system. :smallamused: Defense bonus, Reflex save, a new Dodge skill, something like that.

If it's a proper duel (and not being ambushed/surprise round), the Wizards' people came up with the idea of having immediate counterspells whenever you're knowingly attacked. You choose to dodge or defend, and make a Ref save (or whatever) to see if you're quick enough on the draw to bat the hex away or come up with a Protego or return the same hex. (As you leve, it will be beneficial to dodge, then counterjinx, then Protego, then block outright.) I think one of the coolest parts of the OotP movie's final duel was seeing wizards flick their wands to bat away incoming jinxes - just a great visual representation of what I see higher-level wizards doing, not consciously expending magic to actively block. That will be sort of reflected in the scale of success proposed above, as I understand it.

When multiple wizards are attacking one target, the target should have an 'iterative defense bonus'. Hagrid (frankly) sucks at magic, were he allowed to cast outright, and having a wand wouldn't be a big deal. But Bellatrix can duel three people at once, say. At the highest levels, an iterative defense would let you make multiple 'defenses of opportunity', fluffed as hitting all the incoming hexes on the same swing o' the bat or catching them in your Protego. And I'm not sure what you mean by 'the can only use one spell' - they must use the same spell, or they can only cast one at a time? It's fairly common sense that everyone gets to cast one at a time, at roughly the same speed; saying they have to shoot the same spell for increased effects isn't quite right. If all you're trying to do is stun, then yeah, you'll need stacking Stupefys. But using all different spells is Hilarity Ensues - remember at the end of OotP, when Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle try to hex Harry in the back, half a dozen members of the DA hex them into pus-filled piles of goo-slugs with their special combination. This sort of thing is to be encouraged in Harry Potter d20. :smallbiggrin:

[psychoticbarber]

And I'm not sure what you mean by 'the can only use one spell' - they must use the same spell, or they can only cast one at a time?

All I meant was that each attacker can only sling one spell at a time, as in:

Voldemort cannot use Avada Kedvra on Ron, Hermione AND Harry this turn; he has to pick one.

I'm pleased you liked the system. I just made a mechanic off the top of my head, and it'll probably definitely have to be edited to fit the rest of the system, but that's the flair of Potterbat. :smallbiggrin:


But using all different spells is Hilarity Ensues - remember at the end of OotP, when Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle try to hex Harry in the back, half a dozen members of the DA hex them into pus-filled piles of goo-slugs with their special combination. This sort of thing is to be encouraged in Harry Potter d20. :smallbiggrin:

Absolutely! Sorry, I just wanted to make sure that people weren't going to have any possible way to munchkin "I throw three Avada Kedavras at Dumbledore!" :smallwink:

Edit: If we're still looking at the class system, we may want to have everyone enter a prestige class at level 8 (their magical profession). I mean things like Auror, Wandmaker, etc. Just a thought.

Edit x2: I'm also all for coming up with an entirely new system to support this. D20 is... probably not really going to cut it. Possibly a point-buy system would be good to keep PCs at a relatively balanced power-level, at least at first. A point-buy system also has the benefit of a more organic progression, rather than level-based.

[ravenkith]

Well, I'd be willing to assist in the creation of such a ruleset...

although I think a modification of d20 mechanics might be the best way to go.

Maybe something based off of the hero points system from Mutants & Masterminds.

Start with say, levels from a 1-7 set of base classes (they don't go any higher) and then move, (as you say) into one of the 'advanced classes' (prestige classes) that can be anywhere from 5-13 levels long.

I'd imagine that each level would represent the school year in which your character currently resides, and everything past level seven would represent independent study & real-life experience.

Every time you level up, you get certain basic things automatically, representing a general magical education, and based on which base class you pick. Lets say there are four types of base classes:

1. Tough,
2. Fast,
3. Smart, and
4. Charismatic.

Charisma is used to power spells, but intelligence is needed to learn them. Speed is used to dodge spells, but you have to be pretty tough to resist them if you can't get out of the way.

Each class ties to a specific stat, and each of those stats ties into magic directly somehow.

Each spell has an intelligence rating: a required INT modifier to learn it, going from 1-4.

Each spell also has a power rating, which is determined by the INT rating of the spell, and modified by your charisma...(for a normal human with an 18 CHA, the maximum would be 8).

This Power rating determines how hard the spell is to block or dodge, yielding the DC for the fortitude, will, or reflex save depending on whether the spell is single-target, area, or mind affecting.

Here's a bit more of a breakdown on the classes I was thinking of....

TOUGH (Hagrid):
Tough guys may not be the fastest or the smartest, or even the most likeable, but they are certainly the most likely to survive the attentions of other wizards. Tough heroes learn to resist spells, and can acquire the ability to use their fortitude save instead of their reflex or will saves. In addition, they bounce back from injury and incapacitation more rapidly than other wizards.

Possible benefits: Hard Enough (Fort instead of ref) Perseverance (Fort instead of Will), Rapid recovery (cut recovery times in half for status effects) rapid healing (cut healing times in half) etc., etc.

"I shouldn't have said that,"

FAST (Ron):
Fast wizards are quick on the draw, and in a duel, inevitably have the advantage against their opponents. The fast wizard specializes in recognizing the threat, and getting out of its way. This class can acquire the ability to dodge spells more efficiently, and are next to impossible to surprise. At higher levels, they can even extend their abilities to others. They are also often excellent quidditch players.

Possible Benefits: Uncanny Dodge I & II, Quick draw, Improved initiative, Speed bonus, Reactive Counterspell, Eyes and Ears (any ally within 15ft mayy use the Fast wizard's reflex save instead of their own).

"Look out!"

SMART (Hermione):
Smart wizards learn things faster than any other kind. They are also capable of reaching beyond what would normally be possible for even the magical world, eventually becoming able to invent new spells and learn things nobody else would even conceive of.

Possible benefits: Mental athlete (you have learned much and expanded your horizons. consider your intelligence modifier to be +1 for the purpose of being able to learn new spells) Booksmart (Pick one spell from the level above those you would normally be allowed to learn* and add i to those you know), Inventive (you have the creative spark needed to create new spells-see rules)

* Can be taken multiple times, there'll be extremely powerful spells (int rating 5, 6 and 7) at higher levels....1-4 are the only levels taught in school

"Write your own essay!"

CHARISMATIC (Harry):
The thing you do best is getting people to do what you want them to do. Whether it's because they like you, or you're just very good at manipulating, things just end up that way. Whatever it is, people want to be around you and make sure you stay happy.

Possible benefits: Friends in high places (pick three members of the Hogwarts staff. two are inclined to listen to you and like you, while the other is inclined to dislike you), Friends in low places (You have a friend and ally in a younger student), Shining Star (Everyone knows you. People who would like you, love you instead, People who would dislike you loathe you completely).

"I think I can tell the wrong kind for myself, thank you,"

So, for instance, Dark Lord becomes a prestige class specialized in acquiring followers, something like the thrallherd...but it requires you start off as a charismatic mage....which helps explain how voldemort was able to gather his inner core of followers originally...and dark lord turns their love into fear and obedience, obviously....

Just some ideas that have been kicking around in my head.

[psychoticbarber]

Those are pretty good classes. I don't want to hijack the project, but I think personally that given the base subject material, the PotteRPG (ewww, lol) would be better served by a system without levels.

I'll leave that there, though, for the people driving this thread to decide. If people want a longer, more reasoned argument, you'll have to wait for it to cool down here :smallbiggrin: I can barely think.


I'm currently working on a thorough look at the magic of Harry Potter and how to make it RPG-Friendly. Something I've discovered:

There are only really 2 kinds of magic taught at Hogwarts that use a wand.

Transfiguration, and
Charms.

I've read on multiple fansites that basically anything that isn't Transfiguration is a Charm (or a Jinx or a Hex or a Curse, which seem to be negatively charged charms), DADA tends to actually be a look at technique rather than actual defense spells (which are probably charms), and Charms can do just about ANYTHING.

So I'm trying to develop a subschool system. Does anybody really know the difference between Jinxes, Hexes and Curses? I think that the major difference is intensity, but I'm not really positive.

In my article-y thingy (It's probably almost done and a link will get edited into this post once I'm done) I also talk about what I see the likely sorts of problems to be solved are (passing classes isn't one of them, I must admit).

Update Complete! Sending... (http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dg4kw225_23c5vn9w)

[Zopz]

Those are some good classes there. They may have the same name's as the old 6 but they are totally potterverse oriented.

PB: I don't think the whole thing about just trans and charms is right. Dada uses techniques like how to identify werewolfs, yes, but they have more defense and offense oriented charms than reg charms class. For example: Flitwick teaches things like aquamenti, wingardium leviosa, and fidelous, but Dada teaches protego, petrificus totalis and expeliarmus, which are charms but are geared towards defending.

EDIT: Jinxes are things that impair you a little(i.e Tarantalegra makes you dance uncontrollably but you can still function your upper body), Hexes are like negative versions of transfiguration(i.e bat bogey hex transfigures your bogeys into flying monsters, and the [B]hexes[B] the D.A, used on malcragoyle[cute name] transfigured then into slugs), and curses stay with you til the user dies or releases them(Crucio, Petrificus totalus).

[psychoticbarber]

PB: I don't think the whole thing about just trans and charms is right. Dada uses techniques like how to identify werewolfs, yes, but they have more defense and offense oriented charms than reg charms class. For example: Flitwick teaches things like aquamenti, wingardium leviosa, and fidelous, but Dada teaches protego, petrificus totalis and expeliarmus, which are charms but are geared towards defending.


Yeah. My point is that they're still charms, and under a magic system they should be classified as such. They're not taught in the charms CLASS, but they are still charms.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Agreed. So we now, the wand magics.

Charms
Jinxes Minor Ailments (Tarantalegro)
Healing/Repairing Repairs Ailments (Reparo)
Other Miscellaneous (Aguamenti)
Defensive Counterspells (Protego)

Transfiguration
Hexes Offensively Used Transfigurations (Bat Bogey Hex)
Other Miscellaneous (cant remember one of the top of my head)

and I'm pretty certain that Curses should fall under a different category.

[psychoticbarber]

Agreed. So we now, the wand magics.

Charms
Jinxes Minor Ailments (Tarantalegro)
Healing/Repairing Repairs Ailments (Reparo)
Other Miscellaneous (Aguamenti)
Defensive Counterspells (Protego)

Transfiguration
Hexes Offensively Used Transfigurations (Bat Bogey Hex)
Other Miscellaneous (cant remember one of the top of my head)


Under Transfig, I had,

* Alteration: This subschool alters the physical makeup of an object, like its appearance (this includes invisibility).
* Conjuration: This subschool deals with the creation of objects.
* Untransfiguration: Not really a subschool, but this deals with the reversal of transfiguration.
Edit: * Animation: This subschool deals with the animation of inanimate objects.

[Ditto]

I still cannot see the place of class in a Harry Potter game. The d20 Modern system always struck me as odd, insofar as it's considered an adaptation of D&D for a different setting. It's just not heroic. The combinations you draw from those classes are basically normal people. *Really cool* normal people, but normal people nonetheless.

Hagrid is the strong hero, yes, but he's not even a proper wizard and is not representative of... well... anyone. Harry's dominant stat, in my mind, is Wisdom. He certainly has Cha, and middling Int, but Wisdom - "willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition" - are about right for Harry. I wouldn't peg him as charismatic over wisdom...-ic... because his ability to lead depends a lot on having back-up and being forced into action - thorughout the series, he rarely accomplishes anything on his own, *if* he can get up the courage/organization to do it. (IMO, Hermione was definitely the leader in Book 7.) Ron is the worst excuse for a Fast Hero out there - he's not quick on the draw, he's not particularly good at duelling, and he's not stellar at Quidditch. Fred and George better fit this model - but they're more Charismatic. Or Smart. Sure, not everyone in Harry Potter is the same, and I want to maintain that - this should be done by the players, not by these vastly diverging classes. That's the same reason I wouldn't make magical ability reliant solely on mental stats. There are other ways to learn at Hogwarts.

Seven classes for seven years is difficult, since you'd be out of school in the blink of an eye, campaign-wise. Harry Potter is very much based in Hogwarts. It took them several thousand pages to get the series outside of Hogwarts at all, and then they went back. Once you graduate, things start looking a lot more like D&D experience based levels make plenty of sense; the core mechanic of Harry Potter, I feel, should be based around Harry Potter himself. We know rather a lot about him and consequently the school when compared to anything in the big bad adult world. Leveling shouldn't have to represent squishing dire rats or evil lords (most students got by without it just fine), it's a mechanical advancement in maturity.

The basic idea of Int learns spells, Cha powers them isn't a bad one, but it cuts Wis out of the picture entirely and doesn't take into account the other sorts of magic learning at Hogwarts. This system really has to feature all of the material you can learn there - otherwise, we can just make up the rules for duelling and be done with it.

All of the Hermione benefits would be great to adapt into this; Hagrid, not so much. Wizards bounce, and have Episkey and Skele-grow. They don't get terrifically fussed over mundane injury, honestly.

Jinxes, Hexes, and Curses are roughly in order of severity, but are fundamentally charms. The reason I split combat spells out of the Charms class is because you don't learn combat charms in Charms class, and you do so in DADA. Even the duelling spells we saw outright were taught by Lockhart and Snape - DADAers. Also, why wouldn't we divide these according to what class they're taught in? You don't learn how to cast 'charms' as such, you learn whichever item the teacher is offering that day. A big part of Harry Potter is *being taught* magic, not just looking it up off of a scroll and scribing into your spell book. DADA charms are different because they target people, and do so (almost exclusively) maliciously. It seems a pretty natural division.

EDIT: So you're going to put Jinxes and Hexes and Curses all in there, yes? Sounds like one half of your categories are also known as DADA... Might be a good place to split them off. :smallwink: Healing/repairing - Espiskey and most of the healing arts are Transfiguration-based. Invisibility is usually Charms - the closest way to accomplish this is a Disillusionment charm. It's very difficult to become invisible properly, and we haven't seen any example of it being done. I'm inclined to think an Invisibility Cloak is a Charmed item. If the item is bouncing in the air, it's charmed. If it's physically moving and wasn't before, that's transfiguration. Conjuration is unfortunately very difficult, it seems - 6th and 7th year stuff. Most charms are miscellaenous. The ones that aren't are combat oriented. That's as simple as it needs to be.

I think this cleavage between DADA charms and Charms charms is also (and most importantly) necessary for mechanics in a game like this. We can quibble about the more perfect way to match it to the books, and gods only know I'm a stickler for such things, but we're making a game system here. Changes - tweaks, bends, prods - have to be made to serve playability. I really think breaking down charms into further components will only serve to confuse, since Hex, Jinx, and Curse are attached to spells because they sounded nice to JKR. She talks about what she calls charms, versus spells, versus all other sorts of magic, and admits that here and there she's inconsistent for euphony's sake. We should just take the spell's effect for what it's worth and not take its name to heart.

On that note, I like your analysis of Plot at Hogwarts™. Any HP game will definitely be RP based, with the players figuring out plot points and putting things together (with brains, not Reparo, you pun-savvy jerks) rather than adventuring as such. Everyone always wants to get in on a Harry Potter game when they see one posted, because they - hell, *we* - all want to go to Hogwarts. Then they realize that it's a school... and you have to make your own fun in ways that doesn't involve a) killing orcs and b) stopping the Ultimate Evil™ every day. GMs and student-players would be well served by thinking about the game from a metagame standpoint as you lay out, so everyone knows what they have to bring to the table.

[psychoticbarber]

Jinxes, Hexes, and Curses are roughly in order of severity, but are fundamentally charms. The reason I split combat spells out of the Charms class is because you don't learn combat charms in Charms class, and you do so in DADA. Even the duelling spells we saw outright were taught by Lockhart and Snape - DADAers. Also, why wouldn't we divide these according to what class they're taught in? You don't learn how to cast 'charms' as such, you learn whichever item the teacher is offering that day. A big part of Harry Potter is *being taught* magic, not just looking it up off of a scroll and scribing into your spell book. DADA charms are different because they target people, and do so (almost exclusively) maliciously. It seems a pretty natural division.

EDIT: So you're going to put Jinxes and Hexes and Curses all in there, yes? Sounds like one half of your categories are also known as DADA... Might be a good place to split them off. :smallwink: Healing/repairing - Espiskey and most of the healing arts are Transfiguration-based. Invisibility is usually Charms - the closest way to accomplish this is a Disillusionment charm. It's very difficult to become invisible properly, and we haven't seen any example of it being done. I'm inclined to think an Invisibility Cloak is a Charmed item. If the item is bouncing in the air, it's charmed. If it's physically moving and wasn't before, that's transfiguration. Conjuration is unfortunately very difficult, it seems - 6th and 7th year stuff. Most charms are miscellaenous. The ones that aren't are combat oriented. That's as simple as it needs to be.

I think this cleavage between DADA charms and Charms charms is also (and most importantly) necessary for mechanics in a game like this. We can quibble about the more perfect way to match it to the books, and gods only know I'm a stickler for such things, but we're making a game system here. Changes - tweaks, bends, prods - have to be made to serve playability. I really think breaking down charms into further components will only serve to confuse, since Hex, Jinx, and Curse are attached to spells because they sounded nice to JKR. She talks about what she calls charms, versus spells, versus all other sorts of magic, and admits that here and there she's inconsistent for euphony's sake. We should just take the spell's effect for what it's worth and not take its name to heart.

Haha, that's more than fair. Part of the problem is that JKR wrote fiction, it's all sorta weird. I'll put my weight (such as it is) behind the classes-based magic system. For the game you're right, it probably makes more sense.



On that note, I like your analysis of Plot at Hogwarts™. Any HP game will definitely be RP based, with the players figuring out plot points and putting things together (with brains, not Reparo, you pun-savvy jerks) rather than adventuring as such. Everyone always wants to get in on a Harry Potter game when they see one posted, because they - hell, *we* - all want to go to Hogwarts. Then they realize that it's a school... and you have to make your own fun in ways that doesn't involve a) killing orcs and b) stopping the Ultimate Evil™ every day. GMs and student-players would be well served by thinking about the game from a metagame standpoint as you lay out, so everyone knows what they have to bring to the table.

Thank you! I appreciate that.

Edit: As for the class-based system, I agree that it doesn't fit. What I see is more like a (simplified, dear lord) version of GURPS or the Hero System. Everything is worth a certain number of points (more useful skills cost more points), and every character gets a certain number of points to spend. The "intrepid heroes" get more points to spend than the NPC mooks because, really, it's more interesting when the intrepid heroes are awesome.

[Ditto]

Heh, I got confused for a sec when you used 'class' in both ways...

As RP-heavy as HP will necessarily be, the freewheelingness (good word? Yes?) of GURPS is a bit to broad, frankly it's *extremely* breakable. In a special ops GURPS game I played, one guy could automatically beat any electronics system, another dual-wielded pistols and had a cape "Because it was AWESOME!" and got away with it on missions, and *I* could turn into a squirrel. (Bet you didn't even know there *were* commando squirrel transformers, didja?) You need differentiated categories of points with which to buy things - skills and magic, most importantly here. (I'm a fan of rolling/point buy for CharGen... open-ended point systems have a MIN-MAX ME! sign pinned to their backs.)

Harry Potter lives in a ranked society (it's a school!), and the vestiges of D&D are well suited to moderating this environment. D&D's leveling is exactly the right mechanic, even if the fluff differs (time vs. orc heads), for controlling everyone's desire to build an unstoppable 12-year-old dueller, or the Kid Viscious with a herd of Crumple-Horned Snorkacks doing his bidding, or the first year with unconscionable amounts of skill in Potionmaking kicking your butt with some veritaserum. School is *accustomed* to people misbehaving (even with magic), and keeps the kids in line enough that stepping out of line is ultimately the equivalent of TPing Slytherin.

PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS - itty bitty living space. :smallsmile:

[psychoticbarber]

Heh, I got confused for a sec when you used 'class' in both ways...

As RP-heavy as HP will necessarily be, the freewheelingness (good word? Yes?) of GURPS is a bit to broad, frankly it's *extremely* breakable. In a special ops GURPS game I played, one guy could automatically beat any electronics system, another dual-wielded pistols and had a cape "Because it was AWESOME!" and got away with it on missions, and *I* could turn into a squirrel. (Bet you didn't even know there *were* commando squirrel transformers, didja?) You need differentiated categories of points with which to buy things - skills and magic, most importantly here. (I'm a fan of rolling/point buy for CharGen... open-ended point systems have a MIN-MAX ME! sign pinned to their backs.)

Harry Potter lives in a ranked society (it's a school!), and the vestiges of D&D are well suited to moderating this environment. D&D's leveling is exactly the right mechanic, even if the fluff differs (time vs. orc heads), for controlling everyone's desire to build an unstoppable 12-year-old dueller, or the Kid Viscious with a herd of Crumple-Horned Snorkacks doing his bidding, or the first year with unconscionable amounts of skill in Potionmaking kicking your butt with some veritaserum. School is *accustomed* to people misbehaving (even with magic), and keeps the kids in line enough that stepping out of line is ultimately the equivalent of TPing Slytherin.

PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS - itty bitty living space. :smallsmile:

Ennnnnh open ended point buys just need more GM control :smallwink:. But it's your puppy not mine. I happen to have never run into horrible min-maxing in my Hero games, BUT I carefully pick my players and I'm not afraid to say "no".

You are correct that it is *extremely* breakable, I'll definitely grant you that. And where is a first year going to get the ingredients for veritaserum? :smallbiggrin:

In all seriousness, though, getting all your new magic once a year is a little...awkward, if we're going for the one level/year of schooling direction. I would advocate a point buy like the D&D skill system, with a "max ranks/level" idea, letting players choose where their strengths are but never giving them enough points to be good at everything.

Pulling this off the top of my head (again):

Characters are given X number of magic proficiency points at the beginning of the summer, and the maximum number of proficiency points increases by whatever scale is decided upon.

Example: 1st year, well rounded wizard.
Transfig: 3 ranks (Max 5 across the board)
Charms: 2 ranks
DADA: 3 ranks
Potions: 4 ranks
Herb: 3 ranks

At Hallowe'en, the character gets 1-5 new proficiency points (depending on their actions over the first quarter), and may increase the maximum on TWO magical skills by ONE point.

Example: 1st year, well rounded wizard after hallowe'en, +3 skill points

Transfig: 3 ranks (Max 5)
Charms: 2 ranks (Max 5)
DADA: 3 ranks (Max 5)
Potions: 6 ranks (Max 6)
Herb: 4 ranks (Max 6)

I'll admit, it's not great, but it provides a mechanic for during-the-year advancement, which I think is important. You could also stipulate that the difference between the highest skill and the lowest skill couldn't be more than 5, or something like that, forcing the character to improve in a slightly more well-rounded fashion.

Hitting third year would bring new skills to spend points on (Care of Magical Creatures, Muggle Studies, etc), and 6 and 7th year would bring greater specialization (improved maximums in the areas you continue in).

It needs a bunch of work, but I like something like that for magical advancement.

[Zopz]

Ha, I hope everyone got that aladdin reference by ditto.

Anywho, that skill system sounds pretty good. If the creator decides to just use those skills (Dada, Comc, Charms ect.) and just take away all other rpg related skills(Spot, Listen, ect) and just add a few HP related non-magic skills(Quidditch skills, knowledge of hogwarts secret passage ways) that might just work out(cause seriously, who in real life improves their spot skill:smallfrown: ). Give the player x amount of magic skill points at creation , and more after halloween, christmas and easter, then if they decide they want to exchange magic skill points for certain mundane but potter related skill points(say in third year Lisa trys out for the Quid team and makes it, she can exchange 1 magic point for say 10 quiddich related points[seeker, chaser, flying(broom), ect)

[Ditto]

I'd recommend having some mundane skill points, too, cuz you never know when you'll need to search a room or listen for Filch coming around the corner. Probably something like 4+Int. Quidditch would be a mundane skill.

1 level/year is indeed too shallow an advancement; that's why I'm pushing a 20 level system, 4 levels for 3rd through 5th year. (I didn't make a chart for this one in my post above, so I guess it didn't stick out.) Advancement during the year is indeed terrifically important, since you need to stretch an HP game over only 7 (well, 5) years. Starting at Third Year avoids having to suddenly put points in things you haven't been developing, and nobody has ever done anything worthwhile in their first two years. Seriously. ::nods:: The skill caps would rise at intervals throughout the year, allowing increased proficiency in a limited number of things, getting better at skills you've already learned. I agree with your caps, roughly (starting Magic at max 3 in Stat, 3 in Skill). Every other level during the year (The Christmas one) would bring some other perk - a new spell/potion/etc., a bonus feat for specialization, random other magical skill point (Quidditch, research bonus, etc.)

[psychoticbarber]

I'd recommend having some mundane skill points, too, cuz you never know when you'll need to search a room or listen for Filch coming around the corner. Probably something like 4+Int. Quidditch would be a mundane skill.


Oh absolutely. Definitely important to have skills like listen and hide :smallbiggrin:



1 level/year is indeed too shallow an advancement; that's why I'm pushing a 20 level system, 4 levels for 3rd through 5th year. (I didn't make a chart for this one in my post above, so I guess it didn't stick out.) Advancement during the year is indeed terrifically important, since you need to stretch an HP game over only 7 (well, 5) years.

Oh, is there no intention to see what becomes of our intrepid heroes after they leave school?

Either way, doesn't matter to me, it just makes a difference on how one approaches the game.

[Ditto]

Well, you only learn spells etc. regularly when you're being taught it. How many thesis papers do you write after you're out of school eh? And after level 20? That's what we call epic. :smallamused: At that point, they can start earning experience-point-based levels. Profession: MoM Bureaucrat XP, here I come!

Okay seriously, I'm leaving for vacation this time. :smallsmile:

[psychoticbarber]

Well, you only learn spells etc. regularly when you're being taught it. How many thesis papers do you write after you're out of school eh? And after level 20? That's what we call epic. :smallamused: At that point, they can start earning experience-point-based levels. Profession: MoM Bureaucrat XP, here I come!

"Who am I? WHO AM I!? I am Arthur Weasley, EPIC BUREAUCRAT!" :smallbiggrin:


Okay seriously, I'm leaving for vacation this time. :smallsmile:

Enjoy! :smallsmile:

[Druid_lord]

starting at 3rd year seems to be the general consensus, am i right?

[psychoticbarber]

starting at 3rd year seems to be the general consensus, am i right?

As far as I can see, yes.

[Ashtar]

Basically, what you are looking for is an adaptation of Ars Magica to Harry Potter.
The system features flaws and benefits (fey - veela blood), spontaneous casting and known spells, power levels, unlimited casting (although a spell too powerful might tire you out), a dueling system.

[psychoticbarber]

Basically, what you are looking for is an adaptation of Ars Magica to Harry Potter.
The system features flaws and benefits (fey - veela blood), spontaneous casting and known spells, power levels, unlimited casting (although a spell too powerful might tire you out), a dueling system.

That might be nice. I think the others are fairly set on a d20 variant, but I like it from your description. I'd have to check it out to give you a better opinion.

[Ditto]

If I ever make a character in The Town, it will be an epic-level Expert. He's got double the max ranks in Disable Device, Open Lock, and Profession: Locksmith - not good for much, but if he so much as looks at a padlock it jumps up and runs screaming. :smallsmile:

Ars Magica does indeed sound close to what we're looking for. I'm not familiar with it either, but someone with knowledge of it could certainly help us adapt it in a D&D way.

Not to steal TD's thunder, but I think I might start my own thread purely for bookkeeping purposes, to organize how I'm seeing this shaping up. I have things scattered across dozens of posts, and an index like this thread's first post would be handy. That'll be a fun project over the next few days...

[Druid_lord]

I found a nice wand generator (http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=hpwand), which had development help by the guy who played olivander, this could give us some new core and wand ideas.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I am on vacation at the moment, but when i get back (23rd) I will take this all, compile it, and see what looks like it will work, what is the current consensus, And update it as appearing. This way, people can really see whats's happening to the Potterverse.

[psychoticbarber]

Well, this sounds excellent thus far. This is essentially a bump, but I *am* excited to see it getting all organized and put together.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

hm... curses do seem a bit spread out. I see the Imperius Curse as a charm, while some others seem like transfigurations, and most seem like neither.

[Ditto]

Curses, hexes, and jinxes are charms variants. Basically, anything you can fire from your wand is a charm. (Like 'Anything that ends in -ly is an adverb', that sort of rule.) I can't think of any projectile transfigurations, off the top of my head. It's the sort of thing you need to 'draw' with your wand, in my mind.

I've begun my d20 Harry Potter compilation, in the thread now linked in my sig. Please duck over there and scan through the slightly-organized version, and let me know what you think is workable. Thanks!

Also, anyone know a good way of hosting documents online? I'd like to distribute my character sheet in a way that doesn't require e-mail. Would that google thing work for Excel files, psychoticbarber?

[psychoticbarber]

Googledocs allows you to do Word-processor style documents and spreadsheets. I haven't put any excel sheets in it yet, but I'm sure it'll work. It's compatible with word but not wordperfect (:smallfurious:).

[Marc_In_Da_Room]

hi, i know its been three years since last post but i was reading this thread and thought i should give you this piece of advice.

if you are serious in making a harry potter roleplaying game then might i suggest you use the Storytelling system used in World of Darkness instead of the d20 system. if you are not familiar with it, then go have a look and you'll see why it would be so much better.