Gladiatorial Combat

[Xanyo]

Let's say Roman style gladiatorial combat was legalized in your country's name. The primary rules are as follows:
No underhanded moves like eye gouges
Avoid injuries that will put your opponent out of the gladiator business(such as death)

The average pay per fight(which is dependent on the popular demand for the fight, spectators paying, general awesomeness of the fight, odds, and popularity[both good and bad] of the combatants) for a beginning but not crappy fighter is around 25k USD per fight. You are offered a place in a fight that would launch you into the gladiator business. Would you accept? Why or why not? If necessary, increase your physical capabilities sufficiently to compete(with exercise, etc). Would you want to watch it? What are your varying opinions on the matter?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Avoid injuries that will put your opponent out of the gladiator business(such as death)

So... it's not really gladiatoral combat.

[Donnadogsoth]

So... it's not really gladiatoral combat.

I've heard gladiators were primarily performers, not killers. They would even bulk up on barley and beans to give them a layer of fat that their opponent could artfully lay a few bloody cuts into without affecting their muscles. Deaths did occur but they weren't guaranteed. So, it's not inconceivable a gladiatorial system could be put in place where deaths were always unintentional.

[Strigon]

I've heard gladiators were primarily performers, not killers. They would even bulk up on barley and beans to give them a layer of fat that their opponent could artfully lay a few bloody cuts into without affecting their muscles. Deaths did occur but they weren't guaranteed. So, it's not inconceivable a gladiatorial system could be put in place where deaths were always unintentional.

I'd heard something very similar.
Of course, history is inherently ambiguous; everyone is taught something different, according to who taught them/which book they read, but from what I know gladiators weren't meant to fight to the death.
Now, of course, they fought with potentially deadly weapons, and allegedly a poor performance (cowardly or the like) could result in a gladiator being executed following the fight, but I was taught that, assuming a good show and no accidents, a gladiator could expect to come out of a fight alive and whole, though the loser might be poor, bruised, and tired.

Anyway, 25k a fight? So, 2 fights per year and you're living comfortably? 3 or 4 to get good training, leaving 3 months between fights to recover? Sounds like a good deal, in general.
I am left to wonder what exactly separates it from modern analogues like wrestling or boxing. I mean, granted, those aren't really "fighting", but from a spectator's standpoint, what's the difference?

[Xanyo]

The difference is this has weapons and cuts and more danger. Plus(some) armor, occasional shields, and more danger. Did I mention the more danger?

From my knowledge, gladiators were kind of property, so when one rich guy lends his gladiator to another rich guy for a fight, he wants him back in fighting condition.

[Aedilred]

As with a lot of these things, it seems to have varied by time and place. Early gladiatorial bouts are supposed to have been ritualised combat for honouring the dead. Later, it was used as a means of execution, in which case death was expected, but only for the prisoners. Even as late as the Principate it seems death for a professional gladiator was considered somewhat uncommon, and apparently one of the causes of Caligula's unpopularity was that he was too ready to hand out "death" as a judgment in the arena.

In a scene mystifyingly cut from the theatrical Gladiator, Proximo reminds Maximus "Don't just hack them to pieces; you're an entertainer - so entertain!" (Thus lending context to the famous "are you not entertained?" line a few minutes later). In Kubrick's Spartacus, the doctore is shown marking target areas on a slave's body and instructing his charges to prioritise nonfatal wounds above fatal ones, and slow kills over quick ones. Obviously, these are Hollywood, but nevertheless reflect some of the truth of what gladiatorial combat was about. Watching two people fighting for real is not necessarily particularly spectacular, and in fights between professional gladiators it seems all but certain there was a major element of theatricality and choreography, perhaps rather moreso than there was a danger of actual death. A policy as the OP suggests, where death only happens by mistake, was probably not uncommon: after all, training up and stabling a gladiator would not have been cheap, and nobody wants to lose that investment too easily.

Would I participate in gladiatorial combat? Probably not. There might have been a time when I would have considered it, but the idea doesn't appeal to me even with the promise of large amounts of payment.

Would I watch? Hard to say, but given that I don't watch wrestling or boxing (or any of the other related sports like UFC or MMA) then very likely not. Though you never know what's going to capture my attention. I was quite into Robot Wars back in the day, after all. And it is probably not entirely coincidental that wrestling and boxing aren't free-to-air. I might never have become such a cricket fan had it not been on accessible TV while I was laid up over the summer one year.

[Artemis97]

I don't think I would compete in the combat. Even with a comfortably high payout. Maybe if it were more. I would definitely watch. Especially if they made it historically accurate. There was a show on jousting a few years back that I really enjoyed. And I have recently gotten into wrestling.

[Aedilred]

I don't think I would compete in the combat. Even with a comfortably high payout. Maybe if it were more. I would definitely watch. Especially if they made it historically accurate. There was a show on jousting a few years back that I really enjoyed. And I have recently gotten into wrestling.

Oh yeah, I'd watch, and consider competing in, jousting (though I'd need to do some serious exercise; lances are incredibly heavy and the armour's not exactly nothing). That might just be an undercurrent of snobbery on my part though, what with gladiatorial combat being a slave sport and jousting a nobleman's one :smallwink:

[2D8HP]

...with gladiatorial combat being a slave sport and jousting a nobleman's one :smallwink:


You've made me realize something.

The very idea of modern gladiatorial combat offends me (I don't even like boxing!), but when the Renaissance Pleasure Faire's were held in Marin County, I watched and enjoyed the jousts, and would again.

Baffling that.

[Knaight]

You've made me realize something.

The very idea of modern gladiatorial combat offends me (I don't even like boxing!), but when the Renaissance Pleasure Faire's were held in Marin County, I watched and enjoyed the jousts, and would again.

Baffling that.

The injury rates are a fair bit different; modern jousting is a lot safer*.

*Once you get into historical hastiludes that comparison switches dramatically in direction.

[SaintRidley]

So... it's not really gladiatoral combat.

We have UFC and pro wrestling. So basically what has been described.

[Dienekes]

If I was 10 years younger? Maybe. I was more violent, stupid, and interested in combat back then.

Now, I might watch it if it's on, and my friends were watching it. But I would never blow money to go see it live, or ever even attempt to participate in it myself.

[2D8HP]

I'm the odd guy out at work, but I don't enjoy watching football, boxing, wrestling etc.

I prefer fictional violence (except maybe jousting or fencing).

I did fence in high school (so did my DM!).

I can watch a little bit of basketball or soccer and enjoy it, but not for very long.

When the guys at work ask me if I watch any sports at all I tel them "Collegiate Women's Beach Volleyball", which gets a laugh.

[Dienekes]

I'm the odd guy out at work, but I don't enjoy watching football, boxing, wrestling etc.

I prefer fictional violence (except maybe jousting or fencing).

I did fence in high school (so did my DM!).

I can watch a little bit of basketball or soccer and enjoy it, but not for very long.

When the guys at work ask me if I watch any sports at all I tel them "Collegiate Women's Beach Volleyball", which gets a laugh.

Watching sports is inherently dull. Particularly if you used to play said sports. It's like watching other people have fun. Why would I do that?

That said, of sport watching, the one that I can stand is generally a boxing, UFC, etc. Mainly because, usually, there's just some violence onscreen. I can look up, go "Yep that looked like it hurt" and then go back to what I was doing before. Most other sports have something else happening that is far less fun to watch.

[Xanyo]

I'm sensing a trend here. We're all nerds, and thus uninterested in watching/participating in any sport that involves more than two fluid ounces of sweat.

My answer? I would fight. But I wouldn't use much in the way of actual weapons. Shields, improvised weapons, the occasional knife, and my own body. I would consider it fun even if it wasn't helping with the fact that a pile of dirt is richer than me.

[Aedilred]

I'm sensing a trend here. We're all nerds, and thus uninterested in watching/participating in any sport that involves more than two fluid ounces of sweat.

My answer? I would fight. But I wouldn't use much in the way of actual weapons. Shields, improvised weapons, the occasional knife, and my own body. I would consider it fun even if it wasn't helping with the fact that a pile of dirt is richer than me.

The "nerds don't like sport" thing has always bothered me somewhat. I like watching some sports. My avatar probably gives that away in one case, but I also enjoy watching rugby, international football, rowing, Grand Prix racing, the Olympics, and so on.

It's hard to know whether I'd watch a hypothetical sport because I can never be certain what sort of sport or indeed entertainment in general is going to attract my interest. I'm operating mostly on the basis that I don't watch or have any interest in its nearest extant relatives (boxing, wrestling, bullfighting inasmuch as that's a sport, UFC, etc.) but depending on how things actually worked out in practice, I might find it highly entertaining. I doubt it, because it seems rather distasteful, but you never know.

Oh, speaking of bullfighting, this (http://metro.co.uk/2017/03/22/matadors-anal-sphincter-is-completely-destroyed-as-he-is-gored-up-the-bottom-by-bull-6525732/?ito=twitter) is one of the greatest headlines I've ever seen.

[Xanyo]

I like watching combat sports. Interestingly enough, those are the ones in which I see the most tactics. Not football(American), not soccer. Straight face-to-face(or foot) combat.

Admittedly, about half the fights I watch are from movies, and thus not the best line of comparison, but still.

[tensai_oni]

I'm sensing a trend here. We're all nerds, and thus uninterested in watching/participating in any sport that involves more than two fluid ounces of sweat.


That's reaching out. A lot of people with nerdy hobbies or professions are still physically active. Even as far as stereotypical nerds go, baseball and wrestling are considered sports with a lot of nerd fans, just not participants.

I'd say people are hesitant to say they'd like to participate not because of level of physical activity, but because of inherent dangers. Normal sports can already be a risk to your health and even life, what about something where the other guy is explicitly paid to hurt you. Many a professional wrestler has ended their career with a horrible injury, this would be even worse than that.

Atop of that there's also opposition on moral grounds. Create safety nets as you like, in the end this would still be a "sport" where you're supposed to watch two people try to injure each other and enjoy it. I imagine many wouldn't.

Personally I earn enough money to live comfortably and do not see the need to increase my income in such dangerous ways.

[Knaight]

I'm sensing a trend here. We're all nerds, and thus uninterested in watching/participating in any sport that involves more than two fluid ounces of sweat.

I'm perfectly down for participating in any number of sports. Hypothetical gladiatorial games where I get stabbed with sharpened metal swords, not so much. Cut down on the injury potential a bit (armor, blunted weapons), and I'd be down for this as well.

[Frozen_Feet]

There's already minor sports leagues which are basically "MMA with weapons and armor". Modeled after late medieval knightly combat rather than Roman gladiators, but nonetheless.

The suggestion amounts to just putting some money into the hobby to make it professional.

I personally am a martial artist. The reason I don't compete is because I started as an adult and would lose even on amateur level. I would need to up my training regime even more to have slightest hope of getting to a professional level. Even in the best-case scenario, I would have maybe a year or two of competetive career ahead of me in my early thirties. Then it'd be back to normal wage job.

EDIT:
I'm sensing a trend here. We're all nerds, and thus uninterested in watching/participating in any sport that involves more than two fluid ounces of sweat.

Plenty of nerds do boffer combat and engage in boffer tournaments, which is exactly what is being suggested, just with foam weapons and no money to it.

[Spiryt]

That's reaching out. A lot of people with nerdy hobbies or professions are still physically active. Even as far as stereotypical nerds go, baseball and wrestling are considered sports with a lot of nerd fans, just not participants.

I'd say people are hesitant to say they'd like to participate not because of level of physical activity, but because of inherent dangers. Normal sports can already be a risk to your health and even life, what about something where the other guy is explicitly paid to hurt you. Many a professional wrestler has ended their career with a horrible injury, this would be even worse than that.

.

Combat sports actually seemingly can't touch American Football (handegg), football (soccer), hockey, etc. as far as catastrophic injuries come.

Revolving, quite stationary, against one other dude and exchanging blows/throws can't touch 250 dude running (skating) into you while doing full sprint, while you are looking elsewhere unprepared...

As far as I am aware American footballists wear their armor precisely because deaths were happening, let alone broken teeth and jaws.

Similarly with shin pads in football, and so on.

Brain damage is definitely nasty part, mainly in boxing - conditioned and drilled higher level boxers endure literally thousands of significant blows to the head without stopping.

But American Football is also quite bad here.

[Xanyo]

Well, at the very least, you are less likely than a professional football player(who makes more money than you) to get a concussion.

[Knaight]

Combat sports actually seemingly can't touch American Football (handegg), football (soccer), hockey, etc. as far as catastrophic injuries come.

This hypothetical gladiatorial combat on the other hand is even worse, although American Football is one of the few sports I'm unwilling to participate in. I like not having concussions, and while I'll take the risk for something like field hockey it's less a risk and more a foregone conclusion for American Football.

[Velaryon]

What's being described in the OP basically sounds like MMA with weapons, and presumably some precautions taken to make sure people don't just get stabbed, decapitated, etc. with said weapons.

I would not participate, even if it could be guaranteed that there was no chance of fatality (which isn't even the case for modern unarmed combat sports). The payout isn't enough to risk my life and health, I am not and never will be athletic enough to compete on an elite level, and my study of martial arts is purely for personal and practical purposes.

[Maelstrom]

You've made me realize something.

The very idea of modern gladiatorial combat offends me (I don't even like boxing!), but when the Renaissance Pleasure Faire's were held in Marin County, I watched and enjoyed the jousts, and would again.

Baffling that.

Good times, those... Horrible to see houses and a gold course there now :smallfurious: