What are black metal singers on about?

[Donnadogsoth]

I've sampled some black metal music and found a common theme: gravelly screaming. The lyrics sometimes seem ambiguous and while they suggest an object for this screaming, they don't really suggest why the object is worth screaming about. Note that I'm not asking why the singers are motivated to sing, they might be doing it to pay the bills. I'm asking why the character that the singers are portraying is screaming. They sound like they've just been woken up on Judgement Day and been handed a ticket to Hell, or else have stubbed their toe really really hard and have very low resistance to neurological shocks. Does anyone understand this music?

[Peelee]

I've sampled some black metal music and found a common theme: gravelly screaming. The lyrics sometimes seem ambiguous and while they suggest an object for this screaming, they don't really suggest why the object is worth screaming about. Note that I'm not asking why the singers are motivated to sing, they might be doing it to pay the bills. I'm asking why the character that the singers are portraying is screaming. They sound like they've just been woken up on Judgement Day and been handed a ticket to Hell, or else have stubbed their toe really really hard and have very low resistance to neurological shocks. Does anyone understand this music?

Nope. I stick to classic British metal. Maiden, Priest, Ozzy... clear lyrics with vocals that sounds good. Friends like the scream-metal, so i hear it every so often, but I can never make out what they're saying. I can tell they cuss a lot though.

[Razade]

The more you listen the more you can understand. Generally speaking. As for the rest...what are you even talking about? "The character of the person"? The singer is growling (more or less official term) because that's the style of Black Metal (and other metals). They're not doing it to roleplay some growling maniac.

[scalyfreak]

Translation: You don't like this kind of music and you don't understand how anyone else can.

That's fine. But from the perspective of someone who understands and appreciates, are you actually trying to understand, or are you looking for excuses to ridicule?

"The character the singers are portraying" and "stubbed their toe really hard and have very low resistance to neurological shocks" are not phrases typically used by someone open to learning about the appeal of something they are unfamiliar with. If you don't like it, then just don't listen to it. In return, I promise not to listen to country music. :smalltongue:

[Knaight]

They sound like they've just been woken up on Judgement Day and been handed a ticket to Hell...

This sounds like a reasonable summary of a large portion of Black Sabbath. Beyond that, it's more that it's the vocal style. Why are the characters portrayed by singers in any genre singing in that style, or at all? Because that's how the genre works, and while black metal does have a style well suited to angry music (and it has some angry music) the style persists more because people like it than because something is being said specifically through the style.


"The character the singers are portraying" and "stubbed their toe really hard and have very low resistance to neurological shocks" are not phrases typically used by someone open to learning about the appeal of something they are unfamiliar with.
The former of these is a bit weird in terms of phrasing, but stage personas are basically guaranteed in music, and while the extent to which they are a deliberately affected alternate persona as opposed to just how people act while performing (e.g. the difference between the Slim Shady persona and how Iron Maiden are different on and off stage) it's pretty standard to have them.

[scalyfreak]

The former of these is a bit weird in terms of phrasing, but stage personas are basically guaranteed in music, and while the extent to which they are a deliberately affected alternate persona as opposed to just how people act while performing (e.g. the difference between the Slim Shady persona and how Iron Maiden are different on and off stage) it's pretty standard to have them.

I see those kinds of personas as different from actually playing a character, but that is probably more of a personal preference thing than anything worth spending time arguing about.

My main thing is, since we all know that this is not limited to the metal genre, framing it as a negative only for metal, makes sense only if you're starting out wanting metal to be a bad thing in the first place.

Mr. Crowley agrees. :smallbiggrin:

[Knaight]

My main thing is, since we all know that this is not limited to the metal genre, framing it as a negative only for metal, makes sense only if you're starting out wanting metal to be a bad thing in the first place.
It's not framing it as a negative for only metal*, it's asking why the style of personas that show up in death metal are characterized by the style of death metal. What does that, specifically, accomplish?

I could make a basic argument, but it's a genre that I somewhat like, not one that I know well enough to go into detail on. If that question had been asked about rap I could comment intelligently, as is I can rephrase the question to remove what you found objectionable and pass it on to the metalheads.


*Death metal anyways, the criticism flat out doesn't fit several subgenres.

[Frozen_Feet]

Black Metal was born when someone was told "Heavy Metal is Devil worship!!", and instead of replying, "no, Heavy Metal isn't Devil worship, it can be about a lot of things", they went "No, Heavy Metal isn't Devil Worship, let's fix that. HAIL SATAN!"

Few burned churches later and here we are. :smalltongue:

I don't know why this particular singing style got selected. I think it's because it sounds evil and is unconventional, as Black Metal is about opposing or contrasting with many conventional things. But mostly because it sounds evil.

[Vinyadan]

Well, yes, that's about it. Black metal tends to be about devils and satanism, death metal about death and bodily corruption. So, in a way, there is an element of "oh crap I'm the devil, it's judgement day and I'm as screwed as it comes" in black metal. I can think of some album in which the singer was speaking in persona diabuli (= playing the character of the Devil) the whole time, and you don't want your oh so awesome and powerful and controversial character to talk like any greengrocer, amirite?

Things got out of hand in the nineties in Scandinavia, with churches burning, disks sold with match boxes and such. Many churches are made out of wood over there. There also were suicides and murders, a feud between the black and the death metal scene, and various other things. If you ever read of a veteran black metal band saying "we weren't in the Inner Circle", it means that they are saying they did not take part in these crimes.

[BWR]

Things got out of hand in the nineties in Scandinavia, with churches burning, disks sold with match boxes and such. Many churches are made out of wood over there. There also were suicides and murders, a feud between the black and the death metal scene, and various other things.

It's worse than that. Some of the targets of the church burnings were stave churches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stave_church). I mean, I'm all for fighting Christianity (and all other religion) but don't go burning **** to do so, especially historical monuments.

Fun tangent, my supervisor at uni lived near a bunch of black metal dudes in the 90s. He said that apart from looking a bit odd and liking loud music they were nice and polite and never were a problem in the neighborhood. Then one day one of them killed another.

[Donnadogsoth]

The more you listen the more you can understand. Generally speaking. As for the rest...what are you even talking about? "The character of the person"? The singer is growling (more or less official term) because that's the style of Black Metal (and other metals). They're not doing it to roleplay some growling maniac.

Yes the character, or persona as someone put it elsewhere here. You don't think all love songs are literally the singer singing to his or her beloved, do you? They're putting on an act. They may be drawing on their personal experiences to make it more real, but it remains an act.

[Donnadogsoth]

Translation: You don't like this kind of music and you don't understand how anyone else can.

That's fine. But from the perspective of someone who understands and appreciates, are you actually trying to understand, or are you looking for excuses to ridicule?

"The character the singers are portraying" and "stubbed their toe really hard and have very low resistance to neurological shocks" are not phrases typically used by someone open to learning about the appeal of something they are unfamiliar with. If you don't like it, then just don't listen to it. In return, I promise not to listen to country music. :smalltongue:

My judgement of the likability of black metal remains suspended. I've heard a few songs with some merit, while at the same time I can think of several reasons why I shouldn't like this genre, but, that's not to my question in the OP.

As I wrote, I want to know what the idea is behind the "growling" (it's not really growing, a dog growls and sounds nothing like black metal vocalists). It's obviously emotional. What would making such sounds really mean about the emotional life of the one making them? How could they make them unless they felt some kind of powering emotion? Not the singer, the singer might be able to fake everything, I mean the persona, the character, what do they feel? That's what I want to know.

[valadil]

I like a lot of metal, but draw the line at that kind of singing too.

I don't mind it as much when it comes from a back up vocalist. Tuatha de Danann is the best example I can think of here, even though they're folk metal. The lead singer sings clearly. The backup singer growls when it's called for. I like my music to be up and down, not just turned to 11 all the time. I can take growling for the 3 angriest songs on the album. But no album can sustain that the whole way through without pissing me off.

I've also heard it helps if you pretend the screaming is an instrument. It's atmospheric, rather than lyrical. I can see how that would work for someone but it's never really helped me.

[Vinyadan]

A good album in growl was Romantic Tragedy's Crescendo by Macbeth (1998?). They aren't black metal, more like gothic metal with a lot of organ. The male voice always sang in growl, while the female voice used a normal voice (with a pretty thick accent and synth, always on high notes), and both were present in all songs minus one, where you only had the female voice. I agree that growling is mostly an atmospheric thing, and I don't think it works with higher notes.

[kyoryu]

Shepherd's Pie, mostly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwksxDHNoAE

[2D8HP]

Shepherd's Pie, mostly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwksxDHNoAE


Best music video/cooking instructions ever!

Never before have I been properly able to both headband and make a meal.

I feel complete.

[Honest Tiefling]

So...I've found a tribute band to Ned Flanders that gets pretty growly. I've found furry religious power metal. There's even metal polka out there. If you can't find this sort of metal, you probably need to improve your google-fu or peruse the weirder bits of Youtube.

I think the short answer is that they are either talking about Satan or something completely random, really.

[kyoryu]

So...I've found a tribute band to Ned Flanders that gets pretty growly.

Okilly Dokilly.

You only live once. Ah, hell, give me a white wine spritzer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BEvh6HSQc0

[scalyfreak]

My judgement of the likability of black metal remains suspended. I've heard a few songs with some merit, while at the same time I can think of several reasons why I shouldn't like this genre, but, that's not to my question in the OP.

As I wrote, I want to know what the idea is behind the "growling" (it's not really growing, a dog growls and sounds nothing like black metal vocalists). It's obviously emotional.

At the risk of coming across as not taking you seriously, your question isn't making a lot of sense to me. It might be emotional. It might just be how to sing this type of music. Opera has a pretty unique singing style as well, and that's generally accepted just because that's what opera sounds like.

Someone else in the thread suggested thinking of the growling as an instrument - drums aren't by nature aggressive either. It's just easier to make them sound angry than, say, a set of pan pipes.

The growling is a way of singing that's become a part of this particular type of metal. There may be more to it than that for some singers, but if there isn't, trying to analyze what isn't there will only add to the confusion.

[Vinyadan]

As I wrote, I want to know what the idea is behind the "growling" (it's not really growing, a dog growls and sounds nothing like black metal vocalists). It's obviously emotional. What would making such sounds really mean about the emotional life of the one making them? How could they make them unless they felt some kind of powering emotion? Not the singer, the singer might be able to fake everything, I mean the persona, the character, what do they feel? That's what I want to know.

Negativity - anger, menace, frustration... But also the fact of not being human, and, possibly, and weirdily, at very low tones, authority. For some reason, low tones give authority (compare how Merkel and Thatcher spoke when they first came to office, and how they learned to talk with a much lower tone as time went on. That's not aging, that's a deliberate effort aided by professional teachers).

[Vinyadan]

. Opera has a pretty unique singing style as well, and that's generally accepted just because that's what opera sounds like.


There's also the fact that it allows you to sing very loud and with understandable words without wrecking your voice.

Most contemporary artists would see their career immediately ended if microphones were to disappear, because they rely on them to strengthen sounds that otherwise wouldn't reach their audience, and because, if they were forced to sing like they are used to but very loud, they would waste their voice within a year (or month).

Opera singers also have limits, but this is why they are placed in a category in which they can perform all the range loud and clear. Singers outside opera often sing arching over many categories... as long as they have a mic in which to whisper, or a synth, or other stuff.

[2D8HP]

Admittedly my knowledge of Scandinavian languages is very poor, but I assume that the lyrics are about...


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JWac5UT80no

COOKIES!!!

https://i1.wp.com/metalmofos.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/modern-metal-cookie-metal-monster-demotivational-posters-1329426160.jpg?zoom=4&resize=281%2C300

[Vinyadan]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5I6YeEUyQVI

[Razade]

Yes the character, or persona as someone put it elsewhere here. You don't think all love songs are literally the singer singing to his or her beloved, do you? They're putting on an act. They may be drawing on their personal experiences to make it more real, but it remains an act.

No. I don't think pretty much any love song, or any song period, is literal. I also don't think it's in the guise of some character either. It's not a binary. The person singing the song is actually singing the song. They're not singing the song as some facade...usually...there are bands that like to make up characters but then it's those characters that are singing it and....really this is just one big long rabbit hole we're getting into. Gwar's not singing as fake Gwar people singing a song. They're people playing Gwar singing a song. You don't adopt some new persona when you sing along to a song in the shower. You're just singing a song. They're just singing a song. It's not an act. They're not playing at something. They're saying words to a melody. Singers and band members aren't actors. They're dudes (male/female/whatever dudes) singing. If they're experiencing emotions to make the song more poignant those are their emotions. That's also not an act.

[SaintRidley]

It's worse than that. Some of the targets of the church burnings were stave churches (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stave_church). I mean, I'm all for fighting Christianity (and all other religion) but don't go burning **** to do so, especially historical monuments.

Fun tangent, my supervisor at uni lived near a bunch of black metal dudes in the 90s. He said that apart from looking a bit odd and liking loud music they were nice and polite and never were a problem in the neighborhood. Then one day one of them killed another.

Are you saying he lived near the band Mayhem? Because it sounds like he lived near Mayhem.

[scalyfreak]

They're just singing a song. It's not an act. They're not playing at something. They're saying words to a melody. Singers and band members aren't actors. They're dudes (male/female/whatever dudes) singing. If they're experiencing emotions to make the song more poignant those are their emotions. That's also not an act.

This.

Thank you for saying what I was trying to get across, but much better than I did. :smalltongue:

Now for more cookie metal! :smallamused:

[Vinyadan]

Not black metal, but related to growl:


https://youtu.be/T9rdQdz7WRA

[BWR]

Are you saying he lived near the band Mayhem? Because it sounds like he lived near Mayhem.

He did indeed.

[Frozen_Feet]

Oh yeah, something that's occurred to me while trying to sing Death Metal classically:

Death Metal, Doom Metal, Black Metal rely on very hard, metallic instrumentation. Trying to sing the growly parts clearly sounds downright goofy because a clear sound at the same pitch doesn't mesh with the instrumentation.

Also, proper growling is as demanding as opera singing, and indeed has many of the same requisites. Lack the stamina and core muscles to do it, and best you can do is rasp into a microphone.

[scalyfreak]

Also, proper growling is as demanding as opera singing, and indeed has many of the same requisites. Lack the stamina and core muscles to do it, and best you can do is rasp into a microphone.

...or force the throat to do all the work and over time ruin your voice. Video tutorials on growl and scream techniques are fascinating, from a pure insight point of view, whether you're trying to learn to do it yourself or not.

[SaintRidley]

One thing I've found that gives a great reaction is to take death growling into non-growled songs for karaoke. Death growling "Call Me Maybe" always goes over well. It even got me told I should audition for a local production of Avenue Q, though I didn't go for it due to the time commitment.


He did indeed.

That's kind of awesome. Minus the murder part, of course.

[Donnadogsoth]

No. I don't think pretty much any love song, or any song period, is literal. I also don't think it's in the guise of some character either. It's not a binary. The person singing the song is actually singing the song. They're not singing the song as some facade...usually...there are bands that like to make up characters but then it's those characters that are singing it and....really this is just one big long rabbit hole we're getting into. Gwar's not singing as fake Gwar people singing a song. They're people playing Gwar singing a song. You don't adopt some new persona when you sing along to a song in the shower. You're just singing a song. They're just singing a song. It's not an act. They're not playing at something. They're saying words to a melody. Singers and band members aren't actors. They're dudes (male/female/whatever dudes) singing. If they're experiencing emotions to make the song more poignant those are their emotions. That's also not an act.

Gwar is a bad example. They're 20-21st century people pretending to be Warhammer 40K people singing.

Is Johnny Cash's "The Beast in Me" literal? He probably drew on personal experience to write it and perform it, but that's besides the point. The character singing the song is the point of the song, that there is a man with a beast inside him and he is singing about it. That's the point. To see it is "just" words and chords, well, some people might experience music that way but guaranteed they're not getting any more out of it than the typical person would get out of variegated background noise. To anyone getting the music, the song is performed by a person singing its reality. Cash certainly got that.

[scalyfreak]

By that logic, an author reading a few chapters from their upcoming book during the many stops he/she makes on a book tour, is actually the book characters while they read, and the story of the book is their reality. That's far fetched, to put it mildly. The author is telling a story, not becoming the characters in the story.

Though in the end it doesn't really matter. If telling yourself the growling is a part of acting out an emotion or character helps you enjoy the music more, then feel free. But just as with everything else regarding music, especially one of the traditionally more controversial kinds of music, expect disagreement wherever you go. That's a part of being metal anyway, so from that perspective, you're doing it right. :smallwink:

[Frozen_Feet]

A good storyteller will act out the various characters, to an extent. There's no hard dividing line between acting and music, or acting and storytelling, or acting and any other performative art. There certainly are songs which are meant to go along with an act, and acts which are meant to go along with songs, just as well as there are songs without acts and acts without songs.

[Knaight]

By that logic, an author reading a few chapters from their upcoming book during the many stops he/she makes on a book tour, is actually the book characters while they read, and the story of the book is their reality. That's far fetched, to put it mildly. The author is telling a story, not becoming the characters in the story.

This is actually a decent example - the author isn't becoming the character, but there is a distinction to be made between an author and a narrator (the distinction is particularly obvious in fiction written in first person, but it exists in basically all writing with a narrator). The same thing applies to music.

[Donnadogsoth]

By that logic, an author reading a few chapters from their upcoming book during the many stops he/she makes on a book tour, is actually the book characters while they read, and the story of the book is their reality. That's far fetched, to put it mildly. The author is telling a story, not becoming the characters in the story.

Though in the end it doesn't really matter. If telling yourself the growling is a part of acting out an emotion or character helps you enjoy the music more, then feel free. But just as with everything else regarding music, especially one of the traditionally more controversial kinds of music, expect disagreement wherever you go. That's a part of being metal anyway, so from that perspective, you're doing it right. :smallwink:

"I play D&D, but I don't do it for real. I just say things and roll dice."

[Razade]

Gwar is a bad example. They're 20-21st century people pretending to be Warhammer 40K people singing.

No? I think Gwar is the perfect example of exactly what you're trying to apply to all music. Who cares what they're roleplaying as and when they roleplay it during? What does that have to do about anything at all?


Is Johnny Cash's "The Beast in Me" literal? He probably drew on personal experience to write it and perform it, but that's besides the point. The character singing the song is the point of the song, that there is a man with a beast inside him and he is singing about it. That's the point.

It's booping metaphor, analogy and simile.


To see it is "just" words and chords, well, some people might experience music that way but guaranteed they're not getting any more out of it than the typical person would get out of variegated background noise. To anyone getting the music, the song is performed by a person singing its reality. Cash certainly got that.

I can promise you I get more than enough out of music without having to attribute some extra character to make the song somehow more "meaningful". I can understand that a singer isn't singing literally or even about something that happened to someone else, nor do I have to presume that when Johnny Cash is singing When the Man Comes around he's not talking as some other character singing the song. It's Johnny Cash, singing the song about what ever he's singing. None of that takes away from the impact, the message or anything else being sung. It's still just words to a melody. There's nothing involved deeper than that.


This is actually a decent example - the author isn't becoming the character, but there is a distinction to be made between an author and a narrator (the distinction is particularly obvious in fiction written in first person, but it exists in basically all writing with a narrator). The same thing applies to music.

Right. Some songs. Not all songs. Absolutely (Story of a Girl) isn't the singer singing as someone who knows a girl who literally cried and drowned the world. As opposed to the Decemberists The Mariner's Revenge where it's clear the singer is singing as someone other than themselves.

This goes back to that "Things don't exist in a binary" from the original comment.

[Tvtyrant]

Black Metal, IME, is about dealing with Ennui and Anomie by embracing their dehumanizing influences instead of resisting them. That is one of the reasons it used to be associated with violence and criminal activity, because the people involved felt totally isolated and lost their interest in obeying rules set by society.

[Delicious Taffy]

I saw the title and thought this was about metal singers who are also black. Now I'm disappointed and also wondering if anyone can recommend some black singers of metal.

[Donnadogsoth]

I can promise you I get more than enough out of music without having to attribute some extra character to make the song somehow more "meaningful". I can understand that a singer isn't singing literally or even about something that happened to someone else, nor do I have to presume that when Johnny Cash is singing When the Man Comes around he's not talking as some other character singing the song. It's Johnny Cash, singing the song about what ever he's singing. None of that takes away from the impact, the message or anything else being sung. It's still just words to a melody. There's nothing involved deeper than that.

You are aware Cash bookends the song with readings from the Revelation of St. John? His singing character here is obviously a John-esque person, a visionary if not a prophet. Why would we take Johnny Cash seriously when he sings about what he's singing about? Has he seen 100,000,000 angels? Has he spoken with the Beast? It's a false, a fraud, a nothing, a waste of words and sounds wiggling one's eardrums, unless he's talking as if he is the one speaking truly, with authority.

[Razade]

I saw the title and thought this was about metal singers who are also black. Now I'm disappointed and also wondering if anyone can recommend some black singers of metal.

Sepultura has an African American as their lead singer and frontman. Howard Jones of Kill Switch Engage is African American as well, he's not with them anymore however. Both from Ohio amusingly. Jimi Hendrix for old school, one might not consider him metal but he certainly helped pioneer the styles that would become what we identify it as.


You are aware Cash bookends the song with readings from the Revelation of St. John? His singing character here is obviously a John-esque person, a visionary if not a prophet. Why would we take Johnny Cash seriously when he sings about what he's singing about? Has he seen 100,000,000 angels? Has he spoken with the Beast?

Yeah. He's done all of that. He's The Man in Black, you doubt he has?. Your inability to understand that someone can sing about non-real things as evocative language and a story without adopting a persona or character is clear. I don't have that problem thankfully..


It's a false, a fraud, a nothing, a waste of words and sounds wiggling one's eardrums, unless he's talking as if he is the one speaking truly, with authority.

No one's said that. What so ever.

[Vinyadan]

I saw the title and thought this was about metal singers who are also black. Now I'm disappointed and also wondering if anyone can recommend some black singers of metal.
Was the singer of Thin Lizzy black? And are they metal?
I actually heard that black people were more on metal than rap once, but I have no idea of when that was, or who those singers were.
You can try Crackdust, they are from Botswana.

[Scarlet Knight]

...
Death Metal, Doom Metal, Black Metal rely on very hard, metallic instrumentation...

I was going to make some snarky comment on the sub-classes of metal until I remembered a classic line from the Blues Brothers:

"We have both kinds of music".
"Both kinds?"
" Country AND Western!"

[BannedInSchool]

Next you'll tell me Spinal Tap wasn't real.

[Frozen_Feet]

I was going to make some snarky comment on the sub-classes of metal until I remembered a classic line from the Blues Brothers:

"We have both kinds of music".
"Both kinds?"
" Country AND Western!"

Obligatory reference. (http://forum.cakewalk.com/download.axd?file=0;1886138)

Being able to recognize the different genres of growly metal is sort of like being that farmer who has named and can recognize all of his sheep at a glance: impressive on its own way, but it makes people suspect you spend way too much time around sheep.

Questions missing from the flowchart:

Are the lead singers teenage Japanese girls? ---> yes ---> Kawaii metal.

Does it sound like someone left random EDM song playing on the background? ---> yes ---> Industrial metal.

In addition to violin, it involves the whole damn orchestra? ---> yes ---> Symphonic metal.

[Vinyadan]

very hard, metallic instrumentation.

I once saw an orchestra playing anvils with a hammer. That was the hardest, most metallic instrumentation I ever saw. They actually were pretty high pitched and very ringing.

[Lord of Gifts]

In addition to violin, it involves the whole damn orchestra? ---> yes ---> Symphonic metal.

Which they may or may not have actually dragged along with them.

https://2ch.hk/b/arch/2016-04-29/src/124953133/14618859268370.jpg

[Velaryon]

I saw the title and thought this was about metal singers who are also black. Now I'm disappointed and also wondering if anyone can recommend some black singers of metal.

Sevendust immediately springs to mind. Some people would call them more hard rock than metal, but it's a murky distinction at best. Wikipedia labels them "alternative metal."

Then there's Skindred. They're a fusion of metal and reggae... by way of Wales. It's a bit unusual.



I once saw an orchestra playing anvils with a hammer. That was the hardest, most metallic instrumentation I ever saw. They actually were pretty high pitched and very ringing.

Now you have me wondering whether anyone has made a metal cover of "Let the Anvils Ring" from the cartoon Animaniacs. Sadly, I am at work and cannot search Youtube, and my home computer is on the fritz right now.

[The Glyphstone]

So is Pirate Metal considered Power or Folk?

[2D8HP]

So is Pirate Metal considered Power or Folk?


If you don't have to pay royalties when you sell your version of the song, then I believe it's Folk.

[scalyfreak]

"I play D&D, but I don't do it for real. I just say things and roll dice."

If you're going to deliberately confuse me doing something myself, with watching/listening to someone else doing something, then that alone is more then enough indication that I should have stopped taking you seriously long before now. Comparing role playing with a musical performance as if they are one and the same, is another.

[Frozen_Feet]

So is Pirate Metal considered Power or Folk?

The flowchart already tells you the answer.

Does it have violin? If yes, it's folk metal. If no, it's power metal.

I find accordion and harmonica to be acceptable substitutes for violin. Just be careful, if the tempo gets slow enough, you might be dealing with Schlager Metal. :smalltongue:

[SaintRidley]

If there's a harpsichord involved, you're almost certainly listening to Symphony X, by the way.

[BannedInSchool]

Is there Swing Jazz Metal with horn sections?

[SaintRidley]

Well, this band (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YzldB6wFqs) bills themselves as jazz metal.

[Marillion]

Music is about portraying emotions, from "I'm in love with this amazing person and everything is wonderful" to "this amazing person shattered my soul and everything is terrible", and black metal is most often about very negative emotions. Not only are they negative emotions, they're supposed to be animalistic, hearkening back to our most savage instincts. Black metal isn't about fear; it's about terror. Black metal isn't about anger; it's about fury. The singer desires not power, but dominion. The singer is not merely sad, he is bereaved. His mind is not disturbed, it is diseased. And rather than hatred, the black metal "character" feels contempt for the object of his disdain. The character is portraying themselves as less than human, yet more than a man. He is simple, but not stupid. He is not enlightened, but he carries a primal wisdom. His body may be young in this temporary (or illusory) world, but he is possessed of a spirit that is as savage as it is ancient.

These are the feelings and ideas that (I think) many black metal bands are trying to evoke with their vocals, to varying degrees of success. Others, well, they simply like to scream. :smalltongue:

[Lacuna Caster]

Black Metal was born when someone was told "Heavy Metal is Devil worship!!", and instead of replying, "no, Heavy Metal isn't Devil worship, it can be about a lot of things", they went "No, Heavy Metal isn't Devil Worship, let's fix that. HAIL SATAN!"
Posturing aside, what I love is that they were at odds with the Nazi offshoot of the movement, because their hatred wasn't universal and inclusive enough.


Being able to recognize the different genres of growly metal is sort of like being that farmer who has named and can recognize all of his sheep at a glance: impressive on its own way, but it makes people suspect you spend way too much time around sheep.

Questions missing from the flowchart:

Are the lead singers teenage Japanese girls? ---> yes ---> Kawaii metal.
Dear Gods.

[JoshL]

Is there Swing Jazz Metal with horn sections?

The band you're looking for is called Diablo Swing Orchestra, and they're awesome. They're also all over the place, so not everything is exactly that, but a good companion to the electro-swing revival going on these days.

For black guys singing metal, Body Count is a favorite of mine. Ice T fronting a thrash band, and everything you'd expect.

[Donnadogsoth]

Music is about portraying emotions, from "I'm in love with this amazing person and everything is wonderful" to "this amazing person shattered my soul and everything is terrible", and black metal is most often about very negative emotions. Not only are they negative emotions, they're supposed to be animalistic, hearkening back to our most savage instincts. Black metal isn't about fear; it's about terror. Black metal isn't about anger; it's about fury. The singer desires not power, but dominion. The singer is not merely sad, he is bereaved. His mind is not disturbed, it is diseased. And rather than hatred, the black metal "character" feels contempt for the object of his disdain. The character is portraying themselves as less than human, yet more than a man. He is simple, but not stupid. He is not enlightened, but he carries a primal wisdom. His body may be young in this temporary (or illusory) world, but he is possessed of a spirit that is as savage as it is ancient.

These are the feelings and ideas that (I think) many black metal bands are trying to evoke with their vocals, to varying degrees of success. Others, well, they simply like to scream. :smalltongue:

Thank you Marillion, that's well put.

[2D8HP]

...For black guys singing metal, Body Count is a favorite of mine. Ice T fronting a thrash band, and everything you'd expect.


When I last saw my friend Eric Thomas, who played drums in various "Hardcore" and "Thrash" bands, and with whom I played RPG's with in the 1980's, he told me he'd been playing drums with "Bodycount", but I didn't see him listed when I did a quick web search just now.