Optimization Curse of Stradh, half-drow cleric of Eilistraee [Archive]

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Ellora

2017-04-12, 10:19 PM

So, I'm playing through Curse of Stradh, (which is incredibly fun btw for anyone who hasn't tried it yet), with a half drow priestess of Eilistraee, a cleric of the light domain who just hit 4th level, stats being 8 Str, 14 dex, 14 con, 10 int, 16 wis, and 14 cha (i've got the assorted drow spelllikes and the manditory nice Eilistraeean hair :) . A bunch of people are leaving the campaign, leaving me, a paladin, a warlock, a rogue, and a wizard at 4th level.

I'm mulling over feats. Lucky seems to be a highly useful thing ( and it vaguely makes sense with an Eilistraeean sword dancer). - There is of course just simply +2 to wisdom, but ... somehow, 3 re-rolls a day seems.. useful for dodging the nastiness later. It's a kind of ablative as I've heard it described defense that goes with the light ability to force people to make re-rolls when attacking. Oh, and I've managed to pick up the holy symbol of ravenkind.. and will hunt up the cash to buy a breastplate later - but due to strength concerns am probably stuck with 20lb armor..

I considered defensive duellist, but it seems that it doesn't stack with armor spells ( or at least you can only use one of them) , perhaps making it a bit less useful. Given that this is Ravenloft, Protection from Evil is one of the heavy guns of protection spells.

I only worry my sacred flame won't have a high enough save DC later.. then again, Sacred Flame is an infamous piece of junk, anyways.

I tend towards 3rd edition/4th "god" playing, (not overpowered so much as "hovering over the party protecting them"), but I've heard that it's usually better to do damage, rather than just heal it..

JackPhoenix

2017-04-12, 10:42 PM

Defensive Duelist stacks with everything.

16 wisdom should suffice, getting it to 20 is nice, but not absolutely necessary... however:

For Eilistraee worshipper, I would consider taking a level of monk for unarmored defense, in which case Wis fulfills additional function as the source of base AC, making it more important. It IMO fit better than wearing armor, although I would prefer to also have Dex 16 or more for that

Ellora

2017-04-12, 11:03 PM

They'res this wierd rule in chapter 1 part 5 of the PH which says "If you have two things that alter how you calculate your AC, choose one of them." - in short , a somewhat unknown "antistacking" rule.

Monk thematically would be really neat, but essentially I suspect I'll be tanking quite a lot. - and giving up full cleric spellcasting progression is hard and probably only worth it for something spectacular, especially short of level 5. My high AC has already saved me quite a few times...and I'll be going breastplate shopping. I'm at 17 with a chain shirt and a shield. I'm leaning towards a more optimized and efficient build because Curse of Stradh, especially the ending, is fairly deadly. I considered being a life cleric, but given my fantastic strength of 8 -
life cleric = heavy armor, (and the fact I'm self-enforcing encumbrance rules , our GM sort of takes a gander at them occasionally but doesn't check every lb of weight) - means I can get away with 20lb armor and shield and dagger, and a pack to be dropped in combat.

Essentially "lucky" is a bit more defensive (well, perhaps not, in that I could use the light ability at level 6 to protect party members, and save the "luck" rerolls for my own defense), and +2 wisdom makes getting through high dexterity saving throws (vampire spawn, anyone - just don't bother on Stradh) with Sacred Flame a BIT easier.. lucky seems to be the better of the two in that it keeps me alive longer, to spit daylight (oh that holy symbol of ravenkind) and radiant damage through channel divinity attempts at people..

JackPhoenix

2017-04-13, 12:05 AM

Defensive Duelist doesn't change your base AC calculation, it gives a straigth bonus. Only spell that changes base calculation is Mage Armor, and it doesn't stack with Unarmored Defense, natural armor or actual armor, things that give +AC stack.

djreynolds

2017-04-13, 04:35 AM

Grab a level of sorcerer, maybe dragon, get the shield spell and dragon armor.

Spore

2017-04-15, 07:19 AM

I feel Lucky is better than anything with AC. Mainly because you can reroll saves. This being CoS, you have lots of enemies with supernatural stuff that can be deadly dangerous. Of course you are the tank. But the cleric list is defensive enough with Heavy Armor, Shield of Faith and Prot. from Good and Evil. Your stats are just a bit weird for a cleric though. :)

jaappleton

2017-04-15, 07:26 AM

You're a Light Cleric.

Warding Flare will compete with Defensive Duelist, as both use your Reaction. You only get one per round. Just remember that.

I'd say Warcaster, really. As a Cleric, your buffs are top notch. You don't want to go burning through spells because your buffs keep getting knocked off. Bless is amazing, its almost at a point where I try to squeeze it in on all my characters somehow.

Even taking the buffs aside, you have a spell that's just pure gold for CoS, and that's Spirit Guardians. 3d8 Radiant, concentration, radius of 15' that slows enemies, half damage on a save? Yes. All the yes. It's a third level spell, you don't want to be casting that and then lose it after just one round. You've got a limited number of 3rd level spell slots, and 3rd level spells are a HUGE jump in power over 2nd level. Get the absolute most out of them.

EDIT: As far as 'doing damage instead of healing'... In 5E, healing can't keep up with the damage that enemies can dish out. Unless you've got some builds designed purely for healing (Life Cleric rules, Lore Bard that's MCed Life Cleric and stolen Paladin spells, etc), you're better off with one of two schools of thought:

1. Kill the enemies before they can do substantial damage. They can't harm you if they're dead, so nuke them before they really hurt you.

2. Lock them down and prevent them from doing anything at all. Take them out of the game, render them useless.

Really, Option 2 is what you do if the enemies are too strong to outright murder in a round or two. Big brute of an enemy that you just know has a ton of HP? Well, it won't die in two rounds, most likely. Best bet, at lower levels? Blindness, most likely. Enemy Wizard that's casting Fireball? Hold Person. He's squishy, so nuke his ass real quick.

Honest Tiefling

2017-04-15, 02:25 PM

They'res this wierd rule in chapter 1 part 5 of the PH which says "If you have two things that alter how you calculate your AC, choose one of them." - in short , a somewhat unknown "antistacking" rule.

I think it is badly worded, but I think it is trying to say that you can use features like Unarmored Defense OR Armor, but not a combination of them at the same time.

Else, Defensive Duelist would serve no purpose to anyone but a wizard/sorcerer in robes, and that's just plain silly. The name doesn't suggest that either.

Ellora

2017-05-01, 12:32 AM

Update: We hit the wizard of wines winery today, in Barovia/Ravenloft. I took "lucky", and it came in handy. Several new players joined our table and came in at level 1 - so it was me and the paladin tanking (4th level), a 4th level thief, and a 1st level ranger and monk. With our wizard absent, I was responsible for AOE, (I DID have a partial support list, as I alway or usually do ), and so I reduced 50+ twig and leaf blights to ashes with AOE spells - (burning hands, flaming sphere). Lucky was definitely the way to go - it provided an ablative shield to keep me up long enough to do just that and avoid us being swarmed. The low-level types managed to pick off a few of the baddies, and down the druids causing the whole mess. I used my entire spell list (burning hands - flaming sphere, the last one cast on myself to affect things around me), and ended up at about 5hp . Multiple people got downed, our thief kited in and out and did a lot of damage, and our paladin stuck it out with smite. "Lucky" kept me up and I don't think anything else would have. When I hit level 6 I can pass the warding flares out to the rest of the party and use it for myself.

Light clerics are basically hybrid healer/nukers. - I kind of enjoy them for ravenloft - SO MANY undead things that go bump in the night. My stats are very "defensive oriented", and they also represent a cleric of Eilistraee (and well, yes, 14 charisma means I have nice hair, and it fuels the occasional "faerie fire" ) - really I'm a tank spell boat - although a few of the twig blights went down to opportunity attacks when they ran past me to try and attack the newbies up my silver dagger - over all the session was a blast :) (perhaps quite literally) ? - the newbies levelled and will be back stronger to confront Barovia the next time..

.. and I hate to say this, but I SO enjoy playing a character with .. well, an Eilistraeean "acrobatic tank". Yes, they're so fluffy. Fine .. breastplate it is for me. I rejoice in being able to cast Fireball, and to greet Stradh with the light of the dawn :) - but let's face it, fire is an "anti crud swarms" element, as it's always been :)

Warding flare doesn't really compete with lucky or defensive duellist. Essentially, either/or is "another round of defense". I'm considering it at level 8 if playing "Kiss the Vampire with the Daylight and not get my blood sucked out dry" becomes vital. Lucky's more of a hoot - I mean later, I can use it on my overloaded 8d6 guiding bolt, which is pure radiant damage, to make sure that hits and crisps whatever 's on the other end (Stradh).

With the "locking them down" a lucky find of the Symbol of Ravenkind in a graveyard gives me the ability to lock down undead, if that really comes up. - I essentially made this character a bit for "ravenloft busting".. though I'm determined not to let Stradh know we've got it, as he's not stupid...

Looking at it carefully, War Caster seems good too. The DM's not interpreting the rules properly, for either us or the NPCs.. there are a lot of concentration checks there somewhere, that both us and the druids didn't have to make..

StorytellerHero

2017-05-01, 01:08 AM

Ellora

2017-05-01, 02:36 AM

I'm going to have to check that out. Thank you :) -edit: Thanks. _ I did check it out and download it . - It was pretty neat :)

Ellora

2017-05-04, 02:06 PM

So, I'm back, poking my own thread to the top if anyone's interested (and because we've recieved this wonderful invitation to attend a party at a castle from one "Stradh von Zarovich" but somehow my PC thinks he's a bit creepy and not her type (well, that hasn't happened yet, but :) ...

I'm definitely thinking of multiclassing into sorceror beyond level 5 cleric. It's an AL game, so being able to heal lycanthropy avec Remove Curse seems to be vital, and Fireball from light domain also seems very handy. Ah, yes, but we approach endgame, and the spells above 3rd in cleric seem a bit.. paltry as compared to previous editions - well at least the ones at 4 and 5, though Freedom of Movement, Deathward, ect do come to mind. In exchange for giving up being able to cast Raise Dead, which is a big hit, I can get access to magic missile, shield, mirror image, ect, and sorceror cantrips. Wait, you might say, with a CHA of 14, those cantrips might very well el-suck. Perhaps.. technically, but what are we comparing it to .. casting Sacred Flame on Stradh with a dex save of +9 and auto save capacity, or tossing Firebolt/Chill Touch, ect at things with an AC of 13-16, which is about a 50% chance to hit (and undead seem amusingly "resistant", but not "immune" to necromantic damage"). Ultimately I'm trying to build for as much tankiness as possible, while still being a spell-spitting ball of doom. My cantrip list reads "Firebolt", "Greenflame Blade", "Chill Touch" (which now has a range of 120 and imposes disadvantage on Undead, ... not bad for a cantrip), and as yet unnamed 4th option, perhaps bladeward - very situational and has to be weighed against just taking the full defense action, or the shield spell if you use 1 sorcery point to quicken it, or ray of frost- slows stuff down, or swordburst for that 5ft AOE. Greenflame blade? Yes, well, that's for defensive duellist (probably a necessity) at sorceror 4. Hiss, hiss? Attribute raising.. well, honestly, Stradh can rip your face off in about 2 rounds, so... having something to toss my AC above 18 that doesn't burn spell slots seems smart. (shield, protection from evil, daylight generation, all these seem obvious). Magic missile is a fill in for the MAD caster syndrome (also it's force damage, and very efficient), shield, and mirror image.. well, and probably detect invisibility to "4th level spell slot dispel magic" Stradh's invisibility when we go in, as most of the rest of our party are martial hero types, or non-optimized casters. Twin spell, quicken spell, cast spells at 30ft range( Cure wounds or variants) stand out as metamagic options (you can for example twin a high power heal, though everyone needs to be very close, or it needs to be on you). Wildmagic goes without saying, as it gives you another reroll, and AC 14 +mods is quite gettable up a breastplate (which, given it's AL and ravenloft loot seems to be few and far in between, seems to be the best I'll be getting by that point).

Questions? Comments? Broken twin spell combos :) ? (Cleric 5/Sorceror 4).

As for action economy, essentially you can have a hand free, and "Draw", or "Stow" a weapon every round as a free action ( I think) - So they'res "caster" and "Defensiveduellist" mode, ala Greenflame blade being the only available spell ( perhaps an arguement for Sword Burst, too). I will of course be using a silver dagger, and just a components pouch/ and or a holy symbol stowed somewhere..

And yes, I'm trying to do everything. That's of course impossible, but a high power leader/controller/defender can be hilarity. Striker - I think the ranger's supposed to be doing that.. let's hope he takes an optimum build.. or the next conversation's going to involve my poor drowess getting VERY BORED waiting around a crypt for her absent new "lord and master" somewhere.

Spore

2017-05-05, 06:02 AM

Ellora

2017-05-05, 11:11 AM

.. We know he's a vampire (and i'm kidding :) . The locals have made it abundantly clear, and he keeps showing up invisible, completely hosing us, siccing his goons on us and then taking off. We've already lost Ireena to him (which thinking about it is probably a good thing, as she'll keep him distracted for a while - hopefully). Stradh played in all out kill mode with a substituted spell list I suspect could kill anyone/anything at the levels we're at, but in the name of fun he toys with us and doesn't use his full capacity... yet?

Statblock - Nooo. I deny everything :) . At least I won't be trying to use Sacred Flame on him .. :)

Control water does seem very tempting indeed, but also a red herring. Stradh's castle is quite elevated and it relies on finding a suitable body of water to exploit in the first place, in order to turn it into a "river". Anything else is pretty useless :)

I'm going to have to be careful with what I do "know" . Coming up with a mechanically solid build that gives us a chance of winning is one thing, but I want the other players to totally just enjoy it.

Spore

2017-05-06, 07:10 AM

I dont see how changing your class improves your odds. And i don't see how diverting your attention away from your god makes (roleplaying) sense. Her power is about the only thing able to pierce the veil. Barovia has no known divine spellcasters but a slew of arcane casters that you just have to wake out of their stupor. The Vallaki are basically witchfolk.

Her full might is not shining upon Barovia but it'll make sense. Personally I would throw in a bit of 2 levels of fighter at the very maximum (for combat styles, extra actions) but I would probably focus on your Paladin. He has the capability to withstand Strahd's attacks (with defensive buffs) and dish out enough nova damage to impress the old Vampire. Other than that, it's an adventure path. You do not have to be at peak performance level if you are a follower of Sun Tzu you know you shouldn't find yourself in fair battle. Against a monster and wizard of all things.

That being said, what gives buffs, doesn't care about an insanely large Charisma and does arcane magic? Right, Bards. Personally I would go for Bard levels. They supplement your group, give you ability to choose skills complementary to your rogue and paladin, give bardic inspiration dice and a few useful spells.