switching spell lists

[TundraBuccaneer]

I was wandering if it would screw balance if one would swap the bard list for a fiend pact warlock spell-list, on a valor bard in my mind.
The reason for this is that I do like the idea of blade lock but want more spell slots to be able to Hellish Rebuke, Hex, and Armor Of Agathys all in the same combat. And especial with the lvl14 ability to be able to AOA and still attack would be awesome in my mind.

[RipTide]

You could still get that mostly legally... Take Magic initiate for hex, for you this would require you to convince the dm to let this just become a bard spell rather than the intended 1/day. Then wait until 10 for magical secrets for AOA and Rebuke. If you go Tifling you might even be able to convince your DM to let you cast your racial spells with slots so you could get rebuke earlier.

As to if swapping those lists would be OP... I think overall it would leave you with a weaker bard. Sure you would gain some neat gimmicks but the warlock spell list is pretty limited, and the bard selection, while not great for blasting, is amazing for control, buff, and general utility. So you just end up making yourself a one note character.

[SharkForce]

i wouldn't recommend general spell list changes without careful consideration. apart from thematic reasons, there is definitely a difference in power between the various spell lists.

the specific lists you mentioned (losing the bard list, gaining the warlock one) is probably overall weaker, so probably fine from a power perspective. it will certainly change the way your bard functions in any event.

[JackPhoenix]

What spells are you looking for? If just those 3, multiclassing level 1 warlock with bard will give you all of them. Fully RAW, so it would run even in AL (which I assume you don't care about). Perhaps try asking your GM to change warlock's Pact Magic for regular spellcasting, so it stacks for the purpose of spell slots... but even if not, being one level behind isn't the end of the world.

Also, will the game even get to level 14?

[Syll]

You could still get that mostly legally... Take Magic initiate for hex, for you this would require you to convince the dm to let this just become a bard spell rather than the intended 1/day. Then wait until 10 for magical secrets for AOA and Rebuke.


Per Crawford when a Bard, Ranger, EK, or AT take magic initiate you may use your normal slots to cast your MI spell, in addition to the 1/day

[SharkForce]

Per Crawford when a Bard, Ranger, EK, or AT take magic initiate you may use your normal slots to cast your MI spell, in addition to the 1/day

when did he make that ruling? last i heard, you could only do that if your magic initiate feat is for a class that you actually have a level in (or, in the case of EK and AT, which you emulate having levels in).

[Syll]

when did he make that ruling? last i heard, you could only do that if your magic initiate feat is for a class that you actually have a level in (or, in the case of EK and AT, which you emulate having levels in).

Per PHB errata:
"Magic initiate: the feat's limit on casting the first level spell applies only to the casting given by this feat"

Per Sage Advice:
In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.There's more text to that quote, but pulling this out because this is what JC is referencing here: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/637669202036322304

Basically, every class that's not Bard/Ranger/EK/AT can't use their class given slots for a MI spell not on their spell list because their Spellcasting class feature calls out that you can only use -Insert Class- spells in those slots, whereas Bard/Ranger/EK/AT make no such distinction

[TundraBuccaneer]

What spells are you looking for? If just those 3, multiclassing level 1 warlock with bard will give you all of them. Fully RAW, so it would run even in AL (which I assume you don't care about). Perhaps try asking your GM to change warlock's Pact Magic for regular spellcasting, so it stacks for the purpose of spell slots... but even if not, being one level behind isn't the end of the world.

Also, will the game even get to level 14?

Hex, AOA, fire shield, fire ball, hellish rebuke, misty step, vampiric touch. So with lvl1 it wouldn't work it, but if switching would be not to strong as everybody seems to think I would be happy starting lvl1. Since I could have hellish rebuke and burning hands use bonus action for bardic inspiration. The only thing I was worried about was boring the DM with hellish rebuking more often especially on higher lvls when lower lvl slot get less useful, not because of the high damage but more the constant damage on a reaction.