Can Somebody explain one Punch Man to me?

[Scowling Dragon]

Well I have watched one episode of OPM and I just don't get why its so popular.

It seems to be a satire of Shonen Protagonists....But it satarizes that by doing the exact same thing as Shonen does.

A Incredibly overpowered Main Character exists in a world of idiots that jealously hound the main protagonist for not following official channels or being jelous of him, as he disinterestedly dispatches hordes of villains.

I did find the gag style funny at first, but I don't see this entertaining me for long.

Whats the deal? The Catch? The actual interesting stuff? Is it because there is some coincidental satire of western superheroes that are too concerned with internal drama to do their jobs? Well thats kinda just lumped into the other satire and doesn't really make any sense.

[-D-]

Basically Saitama is a modern day Superman, if Superman was bored and would defeat all his enemies in a single punch. It's a novel way to do conflicts. I mean, how can you have conflict, if all battles are done in a single punch?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4A4WfGSyao

[JeenLeen]

I found the show more interesting before I heard of it as a satire. I get the satirical aspects, and sometimes they are amusing, but looking for them and seeing them as such detracts from the story to me. Others taste may vary, of course.

I find its subversion of tropes funny. (Maybe that is the satire, but seems... non-subtle for good satire.) The villain charging up and almost seeming to win, only to be thwarted so suddenly. There's a few times when the hero gets beat up pretty bad, which adds some 'tension' to the fight. In later episodes, the main character is busy in one place and you see the normal heroes fighting against monsters, which adds some legitimate tension to the series as deaths of innocents and severe injury/death to heroes is in play.

I've just seen season 1 on Netflix, but it sounds like it's building up to some plot based on power-plays/politics within the hero society/bureaucracy. That may be some of the story as the series goes on. (Someone who has read the manga or seen more shows could probably say more.) And... well, I'll spoiler this as it is a cool spoiler for the last couple episodes

We find a foe One Punch Man can't kill in one punch. He still wins -- well, duh, as he's the hero of the story -- but it is a legitimate challenge. Although at the end the boss says that Saitama was holding back, but it's hard to tell how true that is.
Thus, we can believe some other foes he has to really fight may occur later on.

Two awesome scenes from it (I said spoiler, didn't I?):
-as others say dramatic things for their special moves, Saitama says something like "Ultimate Technique: Several Normal Punches" as he punches the guy many times
-Saitama gets punched so hard he gets thrown to the moon. He then jumps hard enough to re-enter earth.

As a side note on satire/tropes, I do find Puri Puri Prisoner's subversion of magical girl being fun.

[Rater202]

Saitama is the main character, but his fights aren't the conflict--when it comes to fights, he's more a force of nature--he cleans up at the end of the arc.

The conflict is either 1: Saitama's interactions with other characters--for example, a lot of people don't believe he's as strong as he is, because he flunked the written exam when he joined the hero's association, which leads to people beliving that he's just stealing the credit from other heroes.Ironically, the second highest ranked hero in the association is a coward who has no special powers, unless you count being good at videogames. He keeps getting credit for things that Saitama did before he joined the association or that he forgot to report on.

2: Saitama trying to deal with his boredom and regretting becoming so strong--he's a hero for fun, which made his wish to be a hero so strong that he blows the monsters away in one punch... yeah, in hindsight, it jus makes everything boring.

3: Other people fighting monsters because Saitama isn't there. The Deep Sea King arc, for example, is just a bunch of heroes giving their all in order to defeat the Deep Sea King, failing, and continuing to try becuase they're heroes god damn it. Saitama comes in in the last minute and saves the day, of course, but not until just about everyone else on scene has tried and failed.Then he claims that all of the other heroes softened the Deep Sea King up for him to defeat with no effort, letting him take all the credit, becuase one jackass in the crowed of witnesses, rather than thinking "Whoa, that guy must be strong, why is he only a C-Rank?" He said "how pathetic must the other heroes be if that C-lister beat this guy when all of them couldn't."

[Lord Raziere]

Well I have watched one episode of OPM and I just don't get why its so popular.

It seems to be a satire of Shonen Protagonists....But it satarizes that by doing the exact same thing as Shonen does.

A Incredibly overpowered Main Character exists in a world of idiots that jealously hound the main protagonist for not following official channels or being jelous of him, as he disinterestedly dispatches hordes of villains.

I did find the gag style funny at first, but I don't see this entertaining me for long.

Whats the deal? The Catch? The actual interesting stuff? Is it because there is some coincidental satire of western superheroes that are too concerned with internal drama to do their jobs? Well thats kinda just lumped into the other satire and doesn't really make any sense.

Just watch the whole thing it won't take long.

Its basically "what if we cut out all the nonsense about powering up or getting upgrades every season for every foe and just let the hero end it in one punch?"

and its good, because the episodes are such that often, you focus on ALL THE OTHER CHARACTERS for actual fights, you get episodes where Saitama is played as a horror monster that nobody knows about,

you get episodes where despite all his strength absolutely no one knows who Saitama is. He is eternally looked down upon for his plain looks and no one even calls him One Punch Man, they just call him "Caped Baldy." Like most people don't even know him.

you get an episode where every single hero in the city bands together to fight an evil except for Saitama who is late, all of them fail and be heroically inspiring Saitama punches the monster and easily defeats it....and the consequences are that everyone else thinks all the other heroes are weak, so Saitama sacrifices his own reputation by saying all the other heroes softened them up for him, and he returns to his humble unknown heroism, an episode that shows that sometimes the real heroes are the people who don't win against the villain at all.

and the gag where Saitama tries to swat a mosquito and fails despite all his strength and power is HILARIOUS. like he is the strongest guy ever yet he still can't swat a mosquito. You NEED to watch that.

there is also the episode where Saitama punches a meteor to save the city and the common people get angry at him because destruction happens regardless.

and then there is the explanation for how he GOT his incredible power. It doesn't make sense, it shouldn't get him so powerful, and yet it did and thats the joke.

and finally, you the villain who gets the closest to even hurting Saitama.....isn't even a challenge for Saitama and both Saitama and the villain are sad because of it.

like, Saitama isn't a shonen protag, he is a shonen protag who realizes that he wins everything too easily and thus no longer has the passion that a shonen protag does, so he is left with nothing but considering things from a less passionate point of view and thus highlighting his other traits and character that make him truly good rather than just a powerful fighter.

[Razade]

It's a subversion of shonen and comic book heroes. There's not much else to explain. It's a joke wrapped in being serious. The joke is how serious everyone takes it.

[Dienekes]

Well, first of all, just a general rule about life. Ignore fan hype. Fan hype ruins everything. A generally pretty good show, when you're first experience with it is colored by a bunch of overzealous people exclaiming how everything it does is perfect, then anything less than perfect (i.e. everything) will probably be disappointing.

Anyway, One Punch Man. It's pretty good. One of the two anime tv shows I can say I actually enjoyed. Was it perfect? No. But it has some things going for it:

1) The animation is pretty good. Not much to describe here, there were usually less obvious shortcuts involved in the animation. And while there were a few scenes where the characters movement was mostly implied through flashing background lights, something that all anime does that I despise with a passion since it looks freaking stupid, this show did it rarely, and mostly as a joke. Which leads to...

2) The humor is generally amusing. And importantly, the humor actually caries over to Western audiences better than a lot of "funny" anime I have been forced to watch. And the animation actually tries to match the tone for the current scene in a way that emphasizes without being overly distracting. While some deadpan moments of show a very rough art style, it works. Much better than the usual fair of random chibi crap.

3) The pacing is phenomenal. Or at least, phenomenally better than most anime I've seen. Events are introduced, explored, and wrapped up neatly in a way that makes sense to the rules of the setting, and don't belabor the point, or make excuses to keep a plot event going far past it's need to.

And that's it really. A well-paced episodic story with amusing moments and good animation.

There are some problems. It's not nearly as introspective as it seems to think it is at some points. Some of the satire isn't perfect. For example, Genos, he does a thing I hate. With a show who has story pacing that is so good, it annoys me that this character completely breaks scene pacing.

Basically, a thing is happening, it is exciting, and then in the middle of the action Genos will stop and have an admittedly usually short, inner monologue. These monologues usually do not add anything of importance to the scene. I get it is supposed to be a joke because of how often this is used in other anime. But, they don't do anything to make these scenes stand out as funny or interesting in and of themselves. So instead of being an effective satire, they're just repeating the same annoying cliche as everyone else. Which is incredibly annoying to me when the rest of the show is very effective at taking the annoying overused anime or hero cliches: the impervious protagonist, the concept of upgrading yourself to win the next fight, etc. and doing something that plays around with the concept. When this one aspect is just there, and it's pointless, and it's annoying.

Overall, it's a good show. I don't regret watching it. Considering some of the other shows that have gotten so incredibly popular this one deserves it far more than others. But it's not the greatest, funniest show ever.

[GloatingSwine]

Saitama is the main character, but his fights aren't the conflict--when it comes to fights, he's more a force of nature--he cleans up at the end of the arc.

The conflict is either 1: Saitama's interactions with other characters--for example, a lot of people don't believe he's as strong as he is, because he flunked the written exam when he joined the hero's association, which leads to people beliving that he's just stealing the credit from other heroes.Ironically, the second highest ranked hero in the association is a coward who has no special powers, unless you count being good at videogames. He keeps getting credit for things that Saitama did before he joined the association or that he forgot to report on.


King is like seventh (Also the only other person who knows his secret is Saitama, but he doesn't actually care). The #2 hero is Tatsumaki, who is the closest in power to Saitama (and the only other character who gets drawn in the simplistic One style in the manga/anime).


There are two main jokes in the series.

One is how Saitama's unbeatable power makes his life as a hero just as dull and unfulfilling as his life as a salaryman before it, and the other is a gentle satire on Japanese bureaucracy as the hero association is almost completely ineffectual when anything seriously threatening happens and is bound up by its own rules and protocols much of the time (evident in their inability to notice Saitama or be able to deal with someone like him in their testing leaving him as the lowest ranked hero in the organisation, the fact that petty office politics is a major deal for most of the heroes, and so on).

[Scowling Dragon]

So from what I understand:

That's it. Its not one Gag. Its two. Its not one thing that Shonen does all the time, its two things that shonen does all the time.

"Im a Bored Main Character because Im so powerful" and "Everybody hates me because Im just too cool, or maybe my powerset is nonstandard and all the other powered up characters refuse to acknowledge me seriously despite me being more powerful"

I guess Im a guy that has seen this sort of """Subversion" enough that this just seems played out. And I just am not interested in flashes of raw power. Power takes away from a need for environment. And 99% of an interesting fight is an environment.

[Dienekes]

So from what I understand:

That's it. Its not one Gag. Its two. Its not one thing that Shonen does all the time, its two things that shonen does all the time.

"Im a Bored Main Character because Im so powerful" and "Everybody hates me because Im just too cool, or maybe my powerset is nonstandard and all the other powered up characters refuse to acknowledge me seriously despite me being more powerful"

I guess Im a guy that has seen this sort of """Subversion" enough that this just seems played out. And I just am not interested in flashes of raw power. Power takes away from a need for environment. And 99% of an interesting fight is an environment.

That is one way to enjoy a fight. A pretty good way, actually.

But, storytelling at its heart is just an illusion. The protagonist will win. The villain will fail. All the hubbub in the middle is just a trick to keep you invested, and force yourself to forget that fact. Some stories pull this off better than others. But the core remains the same, tricking the viewer to care despite none of it actually mattering.

One Punch Man, more than any other show I've seen, ignores the illusion outright and tells a decent story poking fun at this aspect of storytelling.

If that's not for you, cool. Don't watch it.

I will say there are definitely far more than 2 jokes, but I will admit the core concept of the show is based around those jokes and going on from there.

[tonberrian]

The other thing about One Punch Man is that it's drawn really, really well. For all Saitama's ending fights with one punch, the fights that happen in the show are much more interesting than that would imply, because other characters fight as much or more than Saitama does.

[Scowling Dragon]

One Punch Man, more than any other show I've seen, ignores the illusion outright and tells a decent story poking fun at this aspect of storytelling.

Alright then whats the decent story. And no protagonist is destinined to win. The idea of a story is to create stakes that really has a viewer guessing.

But I ask. What is the decent story here?

[GloatingSwine]

And no protagonist is destinined to win.

Nobody is ever surprised when the protagonist wins.

[Scowling Dragon]

Nobody is ever surprised when the protagonist wins.

Im not sure what you mean by that. Is it that in literature protagonists more often than not overcome challenges presented to them?

Or is it that a movie structure means you will be able to tell if the story is a tragedy or a happy story by the end of it? So unless its a non-sequitur tension cannot exist?

Like to me one of my most exciting times every watching a movie was in the Original Back to the future. The intensity of the situation if Marty would go back to the future had me chearing like crazy when he succeeded.

So back to my point, what is there beyond the gag? What makes the story so great.

[Dienekes]

Alright then whats the decent story. And no protagonist is destinined to win. The idea of a story is to create stakes that really has a viewer guessing.

But I ask. What is the decent story here?

Really? Are you sure? Because the only book that ever really surprised me (EDIT: I should clarify, as a resolution to a plot line, surprises are more common in the set up) when something happened was the Red Wedding in Storm of Swords. I did not see that coming. I should have. It's actually really well foreshadowed. But I was not ready for that.

How many stories can you name where the protagonist completely, and totally loses during the conclusion? Not, sacrificing himself for the victory, not beaten but proves to the villain that they need to reform. I'm talking an ending that was entirely against the implicit contract of the story? And no, stories that begin by lampshading this don't count (looks to John Dies at the End), since those have the implicit contract being that what you originally are supposed to suspect doesn't happen.

Stories where the implicit contract aren't fulfilled don't feel right to the reader/viewer. The closest I can think of is Gone With the Wind. But even that is more playing the assumptions of the story rather than outright breaking with them. Since it's sort of set up like a typical romance plot, but we see by the end Scarlett is a horrid bitch, that having her have the usual romance ending wouldn't feel right in the first place.

Anyway, back to OPM. The story is really just watching two characters develop and struggle with the concept of what is a hero and what is meaning in life, and how do we really improve ourself. And it does it pretty well, not the best, far from the worst.

[tonberrian]

Im not sure what you mean by that. Is it that in literature protagonists more often than not overcome challenges presented to them?

Or is it that a movie structure means you will be able to tell if the story is a tragedy or a happy story by the end of it? So unless its a non-sequitur tension cannot exist?

Like to me one of my most exciting times every watching a movie was in the Original Back to the future. The intensity of the situation if Marty would go back to the future had me chearing like crazy when he succeeded.

So back to my point, what is there beyond the gag? What makes the story so great.

It's people like Mumen Rider, who's schtick is that he has a bicycle, and they try just as hard to be a hero as Saitama. More, even. In a certain sense, Mumen Rider is much more heroic than Saitama, hero for fun, is, and there's real drama in his fights, because he has nothing but his bike and yet is willing to step in to any fight, especially ones he can't win.

Genos, who learns the true nature of heroism from Saitama, more than just defeating an enemy but protecting people.

There's no real drama when Saitama fights. But Saitama's fights aren't the only fights happening - he isn't everywhere, he doesn't deal with everything.

[Douglas]

In nearly all modern fiction, in any media, that I have encountered, the protagonist wins in the end. He or she (or in some cases it) may suffer setbacks and losses along the way, but the ultimate outcome is positive.

There are certain genres where this is not the case, but readers typically know a story's genre before starting it and shonen most definitely is not one of those genres.

[Dienekes]

Im not sure what you mean by that. Is it that in literature protagonists more often than not overcome challenges presented to them?

Or is it that a movie structure means you will be able to tell if the story is a tragedy or a happy story by the end of it? So unless its a non-sequitur tension cannot exist?

Like to me one of my most exciting times every watching a movie was in the Original Back to the future. The intensity of the situation if Marty would go back to the future had me chearing like crazy when he succeeded.

So back to my point, what is there beyond the gag? What makes the story so great.

I mean from a purely surgical perspective of storytelling here's Back to the Future:

Protagonist is introduced, he is likable, but flawed.

The dramatic event happens that kick starts the plot, the protagonist is separated from his home, and must struggle to accomplish the task before him.

The protagonist at first fails but learns something about himself.

The protagonist succeeds, returns to his home, but he is changed a more developed and functional man.

And that's the Hero's Journey, which is a huge portion of stories told. Each of these sections is designed to illicit a specific feeling in the audience, set up tension, and make the payoff all the better.

Did you at any point not think that Marty would return to his present time? Honestly? If at the end of the story, Marty had utterly failed. His mother was raped by Biff, Doc Brown was locked up in an insane asylum, and Marty was erased from existence. Would you have found that a fulfilling story, because it surprised you?

Probably not. Because the story structure was not set up for that. The underlying contract of the story from the beginning was "let's watch Marty go through some hi-jinks on his trip to get back home, and learn about himself along the way." And it does this. It does this remarkably well. Back to the Future is a great film.

It is not a surprising film, by any stretch of the imagination.

And how all this works is the illusion of consequence. Every fictional story ever written runs on this. In truth, the consequence for any action is whatever the author says it is. If the author said that kicking this stone causes the sky to turn purple, it does. That's a weird magic system I just set up there, but there it is.

The reason why any fight ends the way it does in any fictional story ever told is because of the author decided "this guy wins this fight." That's it. From the surgical perspective, that's all it is. One Punch Man realizes this and plays with the concept in fun and amusing ways.

You may not like that, and again. Cool. Good for you.

[Rynjin]

Im not sure what you mean by that. Is it that in literature protagonists more often than not overcome challenges presented to them?

Or is it that a movie structure means you will be able to tell if the story is a tragedy or a happy story by the end of it? So unless its a non-sequitur tension cannot exist?

Like to me one of my most exciting times every watching a movie was in the Original Back to the future. The intensity of the situation if Marty would go back to the future had me chearing like crazy when he succeeded.

And yet, it's an illusion. You know, or at least can reasonably expect, that the main character will succeed in the end. Movies with downer endings are rare and often telegraphed well in advance.

What makes the story exciting and gets you invested is the JOURNEY. You know Marty Mcfly won't get erased from history. You know Superman won't let the Earth get destroyed (or will find a way to reverse it if it does). You know that Harry Potter will defeat Voldemort at the end.

You know that Saitama will win the fight. Everything that happens in between that moment and surrounding it is where the story lies.


So back to my point, what is there beyond the gag? What makes the story so great.

The world building and character moments. The plot of One Punch Man is incredibly weak...because it's not a plot story, it's a character story. It's Saitama's quest to find a challenge and re-awaken the excitement he used to feel from his hobby (Saitama basically represents anyone who has ever become burnt out on their favorite pastime because once you've solved a hundred puzzles or won a hundred combats with your RPG character...the 101st won't feel nearly as sweet). It's Genos' journey to the realization that strength isn't everything. It's Licenseless Rider's determination in the face of literally insurmountable (to him) odds. It's the plight of the various Hero Association heroes who try their best, most of them have a real and selfless desire to help people...but are crushed when they realize that they can't save everyone or beat every monster.

On top of that are the jokes. One Punch Man is built around two jokes, yes, but that's just what makes the core concept. The timing and delivery of many of the others, though, will at the least get a good chuckle out of you, and at best have you let out a deep belly laugh at some of them. First and foremost One Punch Man is a gag a day webcomic set in a really developed universe. Even the art of the show is a REDRAW of that to make it fit a manga format and upgrade the artstyle (which adds its own humor as Saitama and Tsubaki's simplistic, rough character designs culled straight from the original webcomic clash with the hyper detailed other characters).

If you're looking for a deep, complex storyline...you won't find it. Every arc is relatively self-contained, and primarily focuses on a character or group of characters, from the A-class heroes and Licenseless Rider in the Sea King arc, to the S-class heroes and somewhat Saitama in the Boros arc, to the development of the VILLAIN Garou in the upcoming arc (Garou actually gets more screentime than Saitama in the next arc, with only IIRC Genos getting more than him).

Also, watch the subbed version. I really get what the dubbed Saitama's voice actor was going for with the bored monotone, and from an outside perspective can applaud it...but it loses a lot from the more dynamic and laconic tones of the original, which is something I don't usually say. The comedic timing also feels a little better in the original, which already isn't quite as good as the manga by the limitations of the medium.

[Rodin]

From the sounds of it you've only watched the first episode, and I think that's a mistake. I watched the first episode and didn't understand the appeal either, to the point that I didn't continue watching it immediately. However, the style changes a fair bit starting in episode 2, and I'm glad I finally listened to the hype and continued on. It's got some really good laughs and it's the chaqracters around Saitama that are really interesting. Without anyone to bounce the comedy off the first episode falls kinda flat.

And if nothing else, the show is worth watching for the fights. Yeah, you know Saitama is going to win handily. They're still animated absolutely gorgeously and they're a really good example of how to do DBZ power-level fights correctly.

[Shoreward]

Personally, I was never much of a fan of One Punch Man either - but I echo that the first episode is not a good view of the series as a whole. Saitama is a character who can't hold a story on his own quirks alone, and the supporting cast makes up for that a bit. The animation is also incredibly solid, owing mostly to how crazy detailed the manga panels are. Seriously, you can string those things into functional gifs, which at times look better than the show fights.

But speaking as someone for whom the first episode didn't hook, the rest of them didn't hook, the characters never appealed (with one or two exceptions) and who never felt a shred of hype or interest the entire show in light of the premise... it might just not be for you. Watch the first five, then if you feel the same way, drop it.

[Red Fel]

I'll agree the series is overhyped. It's good, but not as good as some people seem to believe. At least, in my opinion.

The action sequences are gorgeous. Likewise, some of the over-the-top powers are appropriately over-the-top. And the silly characters are appropriately silly.

But that's not what it's really about.

It's about the fact that you have arguably the most powerful being in the world, possibly the universe, and he's more interested in catching a sale at the grocery store than investigating the genetically modified animals that have attacked him. It's about the fact that the protagonist's power easily outstrips that of others, but everyone remains completely convinced that he can't possibly be that strong, because reasons. It's about the fact that they live in an upside-down world where sponsored superhero is a paying job, and the protagonist is more interested in meeting his quotas than, you know, saving the world. Except where the latter satisfies the former. It's about a physical god whose origin story consists of ordinary exercise.

It's about a man who not only acts, but looks and is, completely blase, even while walking around as a god among mortals.

That's what the story is about. It's about that mind-jarring juxtaposition between this just this guy and the titans around him, and the fact that this just this guy outranks and outperforms them by virtually every metric. It's absurdist farce.

If that's your thing, you will keep laughing at his non-reactions, and at everyone else's jaw-drops. If that's not your thing, you'll probably appreciate the visuals, but feel a bit underwhelmed by the overall execution.

[Starwulf]

We find a foe One Punch Man can't kill in one punch. He still wins -- well, duh, as he's the hero of the story -- but it is a legitimate challenge. Although at the end the boss says that Saitama was holding back, but it's hard to tell how true that is.
Thus, we can believe some other foes he has to really fight may occur later on.




I read all the manga a few months ago, and no, that fight against Boros is the only fight thus far where he actually has to punch more then once in order to beat/obliterate his opponent. Later on he smacks the new primary antagonist(can't remember his name, but he's the pupil of the old guy hero who went rogue) while he's hanging out with some other heroes one night, and it knocks the dude out cold for a while but doesn't kill him, maybe that's a foreshadowing that this guy might last a little longer then other villains like Boros did, but...I'm not counting on it.

[Scowling Dragon]

Well having watched episode 2 I'm outright mad. :smallfurious:

But I can see why it would apeal to so many people though. I understand how this writing appeals to its large demographic.
Its got so many layers of different things I hate in writing but other people love.

But people hate other people touching their media so Im done with this show.

Also I found the action bland. The animation was better then usual.

[Rynjin]

Well having watched episode 2 I'm outright mad. :smallfurious:

But I can see why it would apeal to so many people though. I understand how this writing appeals to its large demographic.
Its got so many layers of different things I hate in writing but other people love.

But people hate other people touching their media so Im done with this show.

Also I found the action bland. The animation was better then usual.

obligatory (http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/019/649/OK_thumb.jpg)

[Kato]

"Im a Bored Main Character because Im so powerful" and "Everybody hates me because Im just too cool, or maybe my powerset is nonstandard and all the other powered up characters refuse to acknowledge me seriously despite me being more powerful"

I guess Im a guy that has seen this sort of """Subversion" enough that this just seems played out. And I just am not interested in flashes of raw power. Power takes away from a need for environment. And 99% of an interesting fight is an environment.

So, I'm not trying to convince you to like something you don't. Myself I like the story well enough but I'm nowhere close to as invested as others.
I'd still like to know where you've seen similar subversion before, just out of personal curiosity. I can think of a handful examples but view that used it in a similar way.

[Traab]

Ok, so the second and third episode were better than the first. I liked his freakout at the evolution combat room. And it looks like his faithful disciple is starting to understand how he thinks too. And the whole "20 words or less" thing was brilliant. Thank you captain baldy, these three episode long flashbacks get very tiresome.

[JeenLeen]

I don't know if the later episodes explore this, but how he got his powers is a mystery I'd be interested in. (I don't mean the episode with his origin story or when he explains to Genos how he got his powers. Genos replies that it makes no sense for that to make him so strong. I mean how, in-universe, he really got his powers.)

If I believed this was an internally-consistent universe that obeyed consistent rules--which I don't think it really is--I would guess Saitama is actually some sort of reality-warper whose strength, speed, and defense is proportional to the task at hand. This could explain why he takes some damage from attacks in early episodes, but later from stronger foes doesn't even flinch. Also, there's a few times when his punches just knock someone out or away instead of killing them/disintegrating them--and he even playfully slaps Genos once with no ill effect--so it seems that his intent factors into the result of his punch.

Such might even explain the "can't catch a mosquito" scene, if you want to force a logical reason for it. Or how Genos is sometimes faster than him or, in one episode, he hitches a ride with Mumen Rider despite
being strong/fast enough to propel himself from the moon to earth in, at least what seems to be, a few seconds. Plus moving faster than Sonic, who can move exponentially faster than others we've seen.
I do admit he may be riding with Mumen Rider out of laziness rather than speed efficacy, or just politeness at being offered a ride.

I guess the above is a 'headcanon' to try to put some consistent metaphysics into the world.



I read all the manga a few months ago, and no, that fight against Boros is the only fight thus far where he actually has to punch more then once in order to beat/obliterate his opponent. Later on he smacks the new primary antagonist(can't remember his name, but he's the pupil of the old guy hero who went rogue) while he's hanging out with some other heroes one night, and it knocks the dude out cold for a while but doesn't kill him, maybe that's a foreshadowing that this guy might last a little longer then other villains like Boros did, but...I'm not counting on it.

I wouldn't count on it, either, largely due to how is punches impact seems inconsistent.

[Chromascope3D]

I'm not surprised he doesn't like it. It's very hard to like a piece of media when you've already convinced yourself that you hate it. Honestly, that's a more cliche trope than the hero winning in the end. :P

[GloatingSwine]

I don't know if the later episodes explore this, but how he got his powers is a mystery I'd be interested in. (I don't mean the episode with his origin story or when he explains to Genos how he got his powers. Genos replies that it makes no sense for that to make him so strong. I mean how, in-universe, he really got his powers.)


Not necesserily the final answer, but the webcomic has an explanation:

Every human has an inborn limit to their potential, some are massively powerful like Tatsumaki, some are not like Mumen Rider. Through extremes of effort and will someone could in principle break through that limit into a realm in which there are no limits. The villain of the next major arc who will probably be in season 2, Garou, very nearly reaches the point of doing this as he fights Saitama. (Saitama does not actually defeat him physically, but psychologically, robbing him of his will to fight by undermining his motivation to do so.)

Saitama's original inborn limits were so low that his completely normal training broke through his limits and now he has none.

[Anonymouswizard]

I personally love One Punch Man, but I understand that I'm literally the target demographic. The fact that the character is suffering from burnout, but it's still a hero anyway, and that he has both selfish and selfless motivations for what he does. But the important thing about Saitama is he's the straight man of the cast, your standard superhero for the more quirky ones to play off of.

I'll admit the satire of various types is not why I like it, I like it for the character's and world building. Genos's journey to becoming a real hero is what sold me on it.

Also I need to catch up with the manga and pick up volume 9, it's just so much more dynamic than the anime is.

Also I adore the theme song, even though it occasionally seems to clash with the series tone

However it is over hyped and not for everyone. I'd say it's like Lensman, it's awesome if you want exactly what it's providing, otherwise you likely shouldn't read it.

[Douglas]

Not necesserily the final answer, but the webcomic has an explanation:

Every human has an inborn limit to their potential, some are massively powerful like Tatsumaki, some are not like Mumen Rider. Through extremes of effort and will someone could in principle break through that limit into a realm in which there are no limits. The villain of the next major arc who will probably be in season 2, Garou, very nearly reaches the point of doing this as he fights Saitama. (Saitama does not actually defeat him physically, but psychologically, robbing him of his will to fight by undermining his motivation to do so.)

Saitama's original inborn limits were so low that his completely normal training broke through his limits and now he has none.
So the secret to ultimate strength is being born weak? That seems a bit backwards, but makes for a nice joke.

For anyone who cares about such things, DBZ Abridged recently had Saitama show up at Cell's tournament arena (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz7q5XiW87o). I think they chose the only reasonable answer for which would win in a fight of Cell vs Saitama.:smallamused:

[Rynjin]

Not necesserily the final answer, but the webcomic has an explanation:

Every human has an inborn limit to their potential, some are massively powerful like Tatsumaki, some are not like Mumen Rider. Through extremes of effort and will someone could in principle break through that limit into a realm in which there are no limits. The villain of the next major arc who will probably be in season 2, Garou, very nearly reaches the point of doing this as he fights Saitama. (Saitama does not actually defeat him physically, but psychologically, robbing him of his will to fight by undermining his motivation to do so.)

Saitama's original inborn limits were so low that his completely normal training broke through his limits and now he has none.

I've always liked (and still do) the theory that he IS one of the monsters himself. If a person is obsessed with cars, he becomes a car monster. Eating seafood, seafood monster. Shadow boxing, a boxing lamp monster.

Saitama is and was equally obsessed with being a hero. So he became a hero monster.

[Leewei]

There was one episode where he could not kill a mosquito, despite trying to for several minutes. When the mosquito-controlling villainess showed up, though, he annihilated her and her swarm without any real effort.

I think OPM's power is somewhat tied to how much his opponent has it coming. After all, a mosquito is just following her nature, until made into a man-eating swarm. Sea King and other very bad entities were killing people left and right before OPM killed him.

[Hopeless]

I actually thought he was an energy kinetic since he does get hit but that "damage" is converted into power that he uses so simply that it makes him appear unstoppable?!

Has he ever been simply restrained by something like glue or left floating in mid air rather than hit would he be actually helpless?

[Razade]

I actually thought he was an energy kinetic since he does get hit but that "damage" is converted into power that he uses so simply that it makes him appear unstoppable?!

Has he ever been simply restrained by something like glue or left floating in mid air rather than hit would he be actually helpless?

No, his power is to punch hard. It has nothing to do with kinetic energy or anything of the sort. He's hit by energy blasts and still shrugs them off.

[lord_khaine]

I've always liked (and still do) the theory that he IS one of the monsters himself. If a person is obsessed with cars, he becomes a car monster. Eating seafood, seafood monster. Shadow boxing, a boxing lamp monster.

Saitama is and was equally obsessed with being a hero. So he became a hero monster.

It is a interesting theory, but from the manga we know there is a little more to turning into a monster.

[Anonymouswizard]

I've always liked (and still do) the theory that he IS one of the monsters himself. If a person is obsessed with cars, he becomes a car monster. Eating seafood, seafood monster. Shadow boxing, a boxing lamp monster.

Saitama is and was equally obsessed with being a hero. So he became a hero monster.

Not got to the point in the manga/webcomic where monsters are explained, but I agree with this (and the idea that Mumen Rider is a saving people monster, he doesn't want to defeat monsters so he's not any stronger than a normal human, but he wants to save people so much that he's become someone who can always be there to save people).


I actually thought he was an energy kinetic since he does get hit but that "damage" is converted into power that he uses so simply that it makes him appear unstoppable?!

Has he ever been simply restrained by something like glue or left floating in mid air rather than hit would he be actually helpless?

He's pretty explicitly just stronger, faster, and tougher than a normal person.

Also, I did once see an interesting idea, that his invulnerability only extends to blunt force because he always seems to dodge sharp objects. Is this ever confirmed/denied?

[Velaryon]

I also don't understand the appeal of One Punch Man. I watched three or four episodes, and it felt like I just watched the same episode three or four times. "Here's a monster, see how big and scary it is? Saitama arrives, does his one punch, game over. Next episode." Based on what people are saying in this thread, there are more plots with side characters and stuff that I don't really remember, but maybe they took awhile to get going or maybe I just didn't find them interesting either.

My personal nickname for the show is One Joke Man. And that one joke got old by the second episode for me.

I've certainly seen worse anime, but I can't understand what about this show captures people's interest. Also, for all that people talk about how good the art and animation is, I really don't like the design of Saitama's character. He looks like someone got distracted after drawing a basic outline and couldn't be bothered to come back and finish him. He's as uninteresting visually as he is in personality.

So, different strokes for different folks, that's fine with me. I just wanted to chime in to the OP that he's not the only one who finds that the show is not for them.

Now, onto some replies to other posts...


Well, first of all, just a general rule about life. Ignore fan hype. Fan hype ruins everything. A generally pretty good show, when you're first experience with it is colored by a bunch of overzealous people exclaiming how everything it does is perfect, then anything less than perfect (i.e. everything) will probably be disappointing.

Wise words. I could make an entire topic out of all the various books, movies, shows, games, etc. that have been somewhat ruined for me either because the hype set my expectations too high (Mad Max: Fury Road, for example), or because I just got so sick of hearing about it that I lost all interest in trying it out myself (Battlestar Galactica). If you can just ignore the fanbase entirely and approach things with no preconceptions, that's probably the best way to do it IMO.



In nearly all modern fiction, in any media, that I have encountered, the protagonist wins in the end. He or she (or in some cases it) may suffer setbacks and losses along the way, but the ultimate outcome is positive.

There are certain genres where this is not the case, but readers typically know a story's genre before starting it and shonen most definitely is not one of those genres.

I agree that shonen is definitely set up with the expectation that the protagonist will always win, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "nearly all modern fiction, in any media" is this way. There are lots of books, films, etc. where everybody dies and there is no winner. There aren't too many that I can think of where the antagonist wins outright (unless it's part of an ongoing series in which the protagonist eventually wins in the long run), but it does happen.

[Lord Raziere]

He's pretty explicitly just stronger, faster, and tougher than a normal person.

Also, I did once see an interesting idea, that his invulnerability only extends to blunt force because he always seems to dodge sharp objects. Is this ever confirmed/denied?

Mm.

the only image I see him against a blade is him biting and shattering it.

So maybe?? But I don't think its necessarily effective on him regardless.

Nor does he seem to be particularly threatened by the ninja who keeps coming after him, who uses this stuff the most often.

So I wouldn't count on it.

[tensai_oni]

I'm not surprised he doesn't like it. It's very hard to like a piece of media when you've already convinced yourself that you hate it. Honestly, that's a more cliche trope than the hero winning in the end. :P

Yeah, I'm going to second this. Especially when half a dozen other posters already provided good arguments/explanations but OP decided to just ignore them.

So instead I'll say this: don't look at works from the perspective of looking for deconstructions/playing things straight. This isn't just for OPM, this is my advice for media in general. This is ruining many peoples' appreciation for shows, this belief that everything has to be a "deconstruction" (whatever that means, I've yet to see people agree on a definition) to be smart, and that if something isn't, or that if you "saw that deconstruction before", then it's cliche and boring.

At its heart, One Punch Man is not a deconstruction. It's a hero story. It's a story about heroes, their struggles, growth and relationships with one another. One of them just happens to be so overpowered that he can kill (almost) everything in one punch. Everything else that happens is just a logical result of that.

[Dienekes]

I agree that shonen is definitely set up with the expectation that the protagonist will always win, but I wouldn't go as far as to say "nearly all modern fiction, in any media" is this way. There are lots of books, films, etc. where everybody dies and there is no winner. There aren't too many that I can think of where the antagonist wins outright (unless it's part of an ongoing series in which the protagonist eventually wins in the long run), but it does happen.

I agree, but if I can refine an argument I (and I think Douglas) was making. It's not that the protagonist always wins, it's that 99% of the time the story follows through with the promises made in the introduction.

Most shonen anime have the inherent promise "we're going to watch this badass do badass things and kick evil badasses in their ass. Sure there will be some struggles, but in the end. Yeah, our hero will triumph." I assume, I don't actually know what shonen means and am far too lazy to look it up. I assume it's just another name for the super hero style writing. Be those actual super heroes or not, like Goku.

While most tragedies make it very clear from the beginning that the story you are about to read is a tragedy from the get go. And when the story does not end on the note that was subtly promised throughout the story, then it comes across as weird and forced, and generally no one really likes those stories, except for some, usually very small group people, who try to spread how it's a deconstruction, or how it breaks conventional writing rules as though those are good things in and of themselves.

[Rynjin]

Most shonen anime have the inherent promise "we're going to watch this badass do badass things and kick evil badasses in their ass. Sure there will be some struggles, but in the end. Yeah, our hero will triumph." I assume, I don't actually know what shonen means and am far too lazy to look it up. I assume it's just another name for the super hero style writing. Be those actual super heroes or not, like Goku.

Shonen isn't actually a genre, but an age group. "Young boys". Shonen is really just a catchall term for any media aimed at the 10-17 demographic or thereabouts. There are some writing conventions associated with that, but it's not all superheroes. Hikaru no Go, for example, is a shonen manga. It's about Go (the board game). So is Death Note.

One Punch Man, by the by, is actually a seinen series, aimed at the 18+ demographic.

[Anonymouswizard]

I also don't understand the appeal of One Punch Man. I watched three or four episodes, and it felt like I just watched the same episode three or four times. "Here's a monster, see how big and scary it is? Saitama arrives, does his one punch, game over. Next episode." Based on what people are saying in this thread, there are more plots with side characters and stuff that I don't really remember, but maybe they took awhile to get going or maybe I just didn't find them interesting either.

My personal nickname for the show is One Joke Man. And that one joke got old by the second episode for me.

There is more than one joke, although it takes a while to get to them (I think about episode 5/6? The series definitely gets much better in the Sea King arc). After a while the series gets past the 'Saitama defeats the big bad monster' joke, there's one part in the manga where the big monster is, Genos asks if he can handle it, and Saitama goes off and interacts with another character instead. The series does not start out particularly well.


I've certainly seen worse anime, but I can't understand what about this show captures people's interest. Also, for all that people talk about how good the art and animation is, I really don't like the design of Saitama's character. He looks like someone got distracted after drawing a basic outline and couldn't be bothered to come back and finish him. He's as uninteresting visually as he is in personality.

That's the joke. Most of the time Saitama is so bored the artist couldn't be bothered to finish him. If you look you'll notice that he becomes more detailed the more excited he becomes (look at his eyes and his amount of muscles).


Shonen isn't actually a genre, but an age group. "Young boys". Shonen is really just a catchall term for any media aimed at the 10-17 demographic or thereabouts. There are some writing conventions associated with that, but it's not all superheroes. Hikaru no Go, for example, is a shonen manga. It's about Go (the board game). So is Death Note.

One Punch Man, by the by, is actually a seinen series, aimed at the 18+ demographic.

This so much, I suspect that One Punch Man is even more specifically aimed at people in their 20s. But Shonen is definitely not all superheroes, I tend to not watch much shonen these days because I dislike the standard tropes of it, although there's a few series that I might watch when I have the time (I made the mistake of starting Legend of the Galactic Heroes and now I have no time for anything except new releases).

[Scowling Dragon]

I guess this plays into my hatred of a standard trope in anime:

Faux Subversion (Flubversion? Flauxversion?)

Do the exact same thing as would happen in a regular story, but just wink at the camera once.

Its like lampshading a topic, but using it as a cover for lack of substance beyond that.

To me One Punch man is a faux subversion. It "Satarizes" bad writing in Shonen (Or Seinen, whatever)....By doing the exact same thing as those stories just has a character wink at the camera.

So like "Guy accidentally gropes a girl".
"We know that is lazy and played out...So we will have our character acknowledge that and accidentally grope her ass instead!"

[Razade]

Shonen isn't actually a genre, but an age group. "Young boys". Shonen is really just a catchall term for any media aimed at the 10-17 demographic or thereabouts. There are some writing conventions associated with that, but it's not all superheroes. Hikaru no Go, for example, is a shonen manga. It's about Go (the board game). So is Death Note.

One Punch Man, by the by, is actually a seinen series, aimed at the 18+ demographic.

It may be aimed at the seinen demo but it's published by Weekly Shonen Jump (the manga is. Webcomic is self published obviously) and has a lot of tropes that are considered classsic for series that run in shonen manga.

[Rynjin]

It may be aimed at the seinen demo but it's published by Weekly Shonen Jump (the manga is. Webcomic is self published obviously) and has a lot of tropes that are considered classsic for series that run in shonen manga.

It's published in English in WSJ because I don't think any of the other Jump magazines are published here. It's published by Weekly Young Jump in Japan, their Seinen magazine.

[Chromascope3D]

Yeah, I'm going to second this. Especially when half a dozen other posters already provided good arguments/explanations but OP decided to just ignore them.

So instead I'll say this: don't look at works from the perspective of looking for deconstructions/playing things straight. This isn't just for OPM, this is my advice for media in general. This is ruining many peoples' appreciation for shows, this belief that everything has to be a "deconstruction" (whatever that means, I've yet to see people agree on a definition) to be smart, and that if something isn't, or that if you "saw that deconstruction before", then it's cliche and boring.

At its heart, One Punch Man is not a deconstruction. It's a hero story. It's a story about heroes, their struggles, growth and relationships with one another. One of them just happens to be so overpowered that he can kill (almost) everything in one punch. Everything else that happens is just a logical result of that.

I'd also suggest that another good rule of thumb to keep would be to not try to offer 'deep insights' into a work if you (the metaphorical you, of course) haven't actually seen the work in question. Especially if the work in question is only 12 22-minute episodes, and can literally be knocked out in the course of a lazy afternoon. Because if you haven't actually experienced something yourself, then any opinion you can give on the experience can only be, by definition, uninformed, which is not something you want to reveal to any debate opponent you may have, be it online or in person.

Essentially, the aphorism: "Stick to what you know."

But yeah, I really like OPM overall. I don't know why, it just felt good to watch. All the characters are immensely likable (even boring Genos), and the humor was top notch, from my subjective point of view. Not to mention that it has one of the best anime OPs that I've personally ever seen, which had me hooked (and was probably a large factor in getting everyone else hooked) from the start, and has only been outdone by Mob Psycho's since (and not much else, again, imo).

[Callos_DeTerran]

I honestly can't explain it either.

I watched it on the recommendations of some friends who really dig it and are big fans of it and considering that we normally have similar interests I gave the series a watch.

Its alright. Its not bad or good to me (though the animation can be pretty good sometimes), but that is honestly the most damning thing I can say about a form of entertainment is that...its just alright. I probably won't remember anything about it soon and I'll forget it until my friends gush about it once more and I'll ignore the conversation cause I can't really contribute to it.

[golentan]

I guess this plays into my hatred of a standard trope in anime:

Faux Subversion (Flubversion? Flauxversion?)

Do the exact same thing as would happen in a regular story, but just wink at the camera once.

Its like lampshading a topic, but using it as a cover for lack of substance beyond that.

To me One Punch man is a faux subversion. It "Satarizes" bad writing in Shonen (Or Seinen, whatever)....By doing the exact same thing as those stories just has a character wink at the camera.

So like "Guy accidentally gropes a girl".
"We know that is lazy and played out...So we will have our character acknowledge that and accidentally grope her ass instead!"

I think you may be reading some stuff wrong. Like, you described Saitama as a bored main character who is too powerful for the other characters to like him, when... that's not his character. People don't like him because he's not especially likeable: He doesn't like talking to people, he doesn't like listening to them, he doesn't have any real interests or hobbies, about the only things which can motivate him are 1) Monster Attack, 2) Money, 3) Shopping. The only character who seems to like him is Genos, who has to bribe him by promising to help pay rent until Saitama gets a little attached.

It's not a wink to camera, it's a sigh to camera. Saitama WANTS to live in a shonen show, but he doesn't. He surrounds himself with people who live in their own shonen shows, he gets excited any time a plot looks like it's going to make the show shonen, and always gets disappointed when his presence resolves the plot before it can go anywhere. At the same time, the show lingers on the people whose lives are affected for good and bad: It doesn't shy away from the destruction that is the logical side effect of the world in the show, and it shows the people who survive it because Saitama ends plots and the stuff they have to deal with.

It's... schadenfreude from every side. Genos started out as a typical shonen antihero: hunting monsters for revenge and to become stronger, only looking to improve his own abilities, a loner pretty-boy... But in trying to get Saitama to teach him to be more powerful... he gradually comes to understand he'll never be able to catch up, and learns to do the right thing regardless. Even though Saitama has no idea what he's doing, by example he imparts some valuable and painful lessons. Saitama, conversely, wishes he had Genos's life in a lot of ways: Genos faces challenges, gets the fans, gets the cash... but when the chips are down, Saitama does the right thing as he understands it, and remains his fundamentally hard-to-like self, and so toils on saving the world in obscurity. Genos gets the fancy moves and power ups and the mid-battle-speeches and all that stuff Saitama wants in his life, Saitama punches things into showers of gore without any romance or glamor. And between them, Mumen Rider splits the difference, getting neither the glamor or powers but doing the right thing anyway.

It's kinda like the Venture Brothers, or Archer. It's set in a universe that looks very like a different genre, but it's a show about... not exactly failure, but suffering maybe? Nobody gets what they really want out of life, but they go on living anyway. Except unlike those two, One Punch Man is kinda optimistic. Human beings will do the right thing when the chips are down, not the cruel thing, more often than not, and even the bad people will band together to save innocent lives when a real monster shows up. In spite of their failed expectations from yesterday, they will show up tomorrow, maybe with a long suffering sigh and a "why me," but they will.

That's why I like it, anyway... It's superman, but not the holier than thou untouchable paragon of justice, or some of the weird "alternate takes," and he's not an alien being without any sort of relatable struggle. It's superman as a human being with a mortgage, and trouble making friends, and he doesn't like his job, and he's often petty and fallible and sarcastic. And yet... he shows up when he's needed. And along the way, there are laughs when he (or another character's) expectations are subverted, hopes are dashed, or Genos and Saitama are living in this weird shonen world odd couple style despite not really getting each other. And inspirational moments when a character stares death in the face and says "You have to go through me first" knowing that it IS a matter of first, that there's nothing they can realistically do to stop the threat du jour.

[Scowling Dragon]

It's not a wink to camera, it's a sigh to camera. Saitama WANTS to live in a shonen show, but he doesn't.

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

[Razade]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

I think you need to watch more shonen. Especially if you're using Dragon Ball Z where they spent almost 20 episodes at a half hour each detailing the events of three minutes. Goku never "one punches" a legitimate villain.

[golentan]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

First: As a frequent viewer of shonen in the past, NO THEY DON'T. As a rule, if that DOES happen it happens to maybe one antagonist per arc to demonstrate growth by the protagonist relative to the antagonists, and NEVER to the primary arc antagonist. Saitama does not grow, he just is. Enemy Arcs only last until Saitama finds the primary arc antagonist, at which point they end abruptly and gruesomely, with little to none of the tropes of standard shonen fights which would pad most primary arc antagonist fights (powerups, transformations, elaborate moves, battlefield speeches, flashbacks, and glamorization of the violence in general). Saitama punches. Badguy goes down in a shower of gore. Saitama sighs.

Second: The whole point of my post was explaining the surrounding plot, world, and character building which makes OPM earn that nod to the audience, explaining what makes the show interesting apart from the shonen trappings, explaining that it ain't properly a shonen show nor really a shonen send up, and why someone like me might enjoy it for what it is. Which is just my opinion, you don't have to like the show, but you keep arguing like it's an inherently bad show for being something that I don't think it is, and that bugs me.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

...That doesn't happen to Goku, ever. Except maybe in a movie or two.

[Chromascope3D]

I think you need to watch more shonen. Especially if you're using Dragon Ball Z where they spent almost 20 episodes at a half hour each detailing the events of three minutes. Goku never "one punches" a legitimate villain.

Are you implying that this somehow isn't canon? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pSmhZFbCy0&feature=youtu.be&t=2m36s)

[Rynjin]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

Literally the only times this happened in Dragonball were the really early days when it was a gag manga instead of an action show.

For 90% of Dragonball's run this never happened, since near the end of the first Tenkaichi Budokai. The only even arguable example of this in the Z portions is when Trunks obliterates Frieza so everyone can go WTF and wonder who he is.

I'm beginning to think you're talking out of your ass here.

[Lethologica]

I got into OPM because I watched some highlight videos of fights, found the animation interesting enough to continue, and eventually decided to go ahead and watch the whole thing. And yeah, I enjoyed it, but I totally get where One Joke Man and Shounen But Winking complaints come from. A lot of OPM is a self-conscious tour of shounen tropes, even if there's more going on. And every time Saitama meets a villain is the same scene, even if it's not the only scene in the show.

[Starwulf]

Literally the only times this happened in Dragonball were the really early days when it was a gag manga instead of an action show.

For 90% of Dragonball's run this never happened, since near the end of the first Tenkaichi Budokai. The only even arguable example of this in the Z portions is when Trunks obliterates Frieza so everyone can go WTF and wonder who he is.

I'm beginning to think you're talking out of your ass here.

Fully agree on the Trunks thing. The only other time I can think of something similar happening, is after Goku goes down against Android 19/20 because of his heart virus, and Vegeta comes in and enacts a beat down of 19, and even then, it was shown afterwards that it wasn't without a significant power drain on his part, if Gero had attacked and called Vegeta's bluff, all the Z fighters may have very well died right then and there.

Before that we have the Saiyan arc at the start of DBZ. Raditz kicks the living hell out of everyone until Gohan goes nuts, so no one-shots there. Up next are the Saibamen that Nappa and Vegeta summon, and while they are defeated, it's not without some difficulty(even takes out Yamcha and Chiatzou iirc). Nappa/Vegeta themselves beat the crap out of them until Goku arrives, so that's a negative.

Krillin and Gohan do one-shot some nameless mooks shortly after they first land on Namek, but yeah, they're mooks, so doesn't count. Dodoria/Zarbon definitely aren't one-shotted, though Dodoria is fairly man-handled by Vegeta, he does get a few minor licks in, and Zarbon kicks the crap outta him. The Ginyu force...I don't think any of them were one-shotted, not even the small time-stopping dude(name escapes me). Even when Goku shows up it takes him at least a mild to medium amount of effort to take our Jeice, Burter(Burner?) and Recoome, and Ginyu is a very hard fought fight. Then Frieza himself is a major, many episode fight, and even then still didn't die, coming back to Earth, only to be(as mentioned before) one-shotted by Trunks, solely to establish "Who in the hell is this dude, and how the heck did he do that".

Let's see...after that we have 16-18, and there were definitely no one-hit kills on the part of the protagonists there. Then Cell, followed by start of the Majin Buu arc. The little dude on the first level of the ship goes down pretty quick against Vegeta, but even then it's not an immediate one-hit kill, though that may be due to Vegeta just toying with him(but that's not even something Saitama can really do, as literally even a lazy punch kills things). The Mantis creature actually lands several decent blows before Goku causes it to burst due to too much power consumption. Dabura definitely not a one-hit kill, doesn't someone have to step in take him down when Gohan proves ineffective?

Buu himself is a major threat for quite a while, the only point in time where he could have been one-shotted was when Goku and Vegeta used the Potara earrings to fuse together, but their combined cocky nature caused them to take the fight less seriously since they knew they vastly overwhelmed him. Still, by that point Buu had been around long enough that even if they had one-shotted him, you couldn't call it a true one-hit kill.

DBGT I don't remember much about, so onto Super: Beerus, definitely not, lol. Golden Frieza either. Vegeta probably could have taken down the little saiyan kid during the Universal Dragonball tournament thingie, but after that Frost and Hit were nowhere near being able to be one-shotted. Goku Black hell no, though technically Beerus did basically incinerate Zamasu in the present timeline when they discovered he was the Goku Black in the future, but he's a god of destruction and definitely not the protagonist, so again doesn't count.

Unfortunately my knowledge ends there, but yeah, definitely not a trope

Sooo, no, definitely not a common thing in DBZ. If it was in DB(It's been so long, I can't recall much, though the parts I do, it's still not, Tao, General Red, the witches body guards, Tien, Jackie Chun(aka Roshi) all of those are significant fights throughout the series), it's because, as mentioned previously, it's because it wasn't a serious manga at first,

[Rynjin]

Goku technically "one-shotted" both Nappa and Recoome, but both (particularly Recoome) were already weakened fighting a gauntlet before then, so it doesn't fit with what Scowling Dragon was trying to say. They were both also minions rather than the main enemy, and neither were played for laughs so it's all around moot.

Chiaotzu died fighting Nappa BTW, the main reason Nappa was so damaged by the time Goku showed up was because Chiaotzu used Self-Destruct (it wasn't very effective).

[Lord Raziere]

Yeah if Scowling thinks that fights in DB, DBZ or DB Super end in a single blow....then I don't know what he has been watching,:
because Freeza was basically Alien One Punch Man Vs. Every Fighter Still Alive In The Series At That Point. but even then, Freeza has more control over his strength than Saitama because he was apparently toying with them all to show them true despair, and transforming every time to make them see how truly screwed they all are, until Goku finally comes in and beats him, even then thats like a multi-episode fight with Goku doing his best against Freeza and still losing until Super-Saiyan kicks in., which is a whole event unto itself, almost two different fights, one with Goku non-SS and with Goku being SS.

Like you had Goku doing things like surprise attacking Freeza from under water, biting his tail to stop him from choking him, Freeza throwing a mountain at Goku, bouncing Goku around like a pin-ball, Freeza not using either of his hands while attacking Goku, Goku using the Spirit Bomb, all before super Saiyan was a thing and was all a good fight unto itself.

Or the Saiyan Saga Vegeta Fight. That was long and full of twists and turns: Goku and Vegeta Fight! But Vegeta finds that Goku is somehow powerful enough with the Kaioken to defeat him, so he gets enraged and uses all his power in a Galick Gun to fire at the Earth, Goku fires back a Kamehameha and beats by going even farther with Kaioken. Vegeta comes back, goes Great Ape, proceeds to utterly trash Goku while he only gathers a bit of spirit bomb energy. Krillin and Gohan return to distract Vegeta long enough for Yajirobe to cut Vegeta's tail off, Vegeta goes back to normal, still a threat and beating down everyone, Goku gives Krillin the spirit bomb, Krillin throws it, it misses, Gohan bounces it back and hits him with it. But thats not the end! Vegeta comes back, still alive, beats both Krillin and Gohan down again, but Gohan sees the fake moon from earlier and goes Great Ape, proceeds to attack everything around it. Vegeta steals Krillin's Destructo-Disc and cuts off Gohan's tail....just in time for Gohan's rapidly reverting great ape form to crush Vegeta under him. Vegeta then retreats. That is ANYTHING but a single punch, and its won pretty much because the heroes got lucky.

While the Buu Saga was pretty much one long fight against a demon so great that he posed a threat to the universe and had the regeneration and strange magical powers to prove it. I'm not going into that, because thats basically a long and complicated tale all to itself.

Saitama? He just walks up to a guy, punches them and They. Are. Dead. Or are Boros, in which case they require three punches then they are dead, because regeneration. If Saitama were in DBZ, here is how things would go:
Vs. Raditz: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Nappa: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Vegeta: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Cui: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Zarbon: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Dodoria: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Ginyu Force: *Punch* *Dead* OR Captain Ginyu stealing Saitama's body and becoming unstoppable, because Saitama stood around looking blankly thinking ginyu was doing a power up.
Vs. Freeza: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Any Of The Androids: *Punch* *Dead*
Vs. Perfect Cell: *Punch* *Regenerates* Saitama blinks *Punch* *Regenerates* *Repeats* Cell might actually win this one, Saitama is actually starting to hit the upper limits of his shown feats and strength, he isn't actually unlimited, just that he has unlimited potential, which is different, and Cell can pretty much keep coming back up as he regenerates from a single cell, unlike Boros who seems to require actual effort to regenerate and doesn't have Cell's hax infinite energy regeneration zenkai combo, so Cell would just keep getting near-killed and coming back stronger and stronger until he finally beats Saitama. So Unless Saitama knows a move to BURN Cell like the Z-Fighters do with their ki blasts, Cell will win.

Vs. Majin Buu: Another regenerator, but this time made of putty. Saitama punches him....and no blunt force in the world will kill him for good, as its like punching jelly. The jelly then puts itself back together, decides that Saitama is really strong and proceeds to absorb him, becoming One Punch Buu. Congratz, the universe is screwed.

Beerus: now Beerus doesn't have regeneration, but he is pretty strong and basically One Punch Destruction Cat. The only fighter who comes close to challenging him is Goku, so Saitama being a guy who hasn't done anything so far that can exceed Goku's feats and Beerus being able to destroy the Universe....Beerus will very likely win, even if you believe Saitama could destroy the Universe as per the author's Word Of God. Mostly because Beerus can fly, Saitama can't, and can breathe in space as well: Beerus grabs Saitama and throws him into space, watches him suffocate without any way to get back to Earth.

Vs. Hit: stopping time is pretty hax, and the Hit is pretty much One Punch Alien Assassin. It might be a question of who attacks first. But if Hit fights long enough for his Improvement to activate, then suddenly he will start rapidly gaining in power and skill to match Saitama's.

Vs. Future Zamasu: This guy is literally immortal. no matter how much Saitama punches him, it does nothing. Zamasu then proceeds to kill the annnoying mortal.

So yeah, Saitama is this all winning guy who effortlessly defeats everything....in his own series but even in Dragon Ball there are things you can't just punch away, and Saitama's upper feats don't put him near the levels of Super or even later levels of Z.

[Anonymouswizard]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

As someone who has never read it seen Dragonball (I'm not interested, sure me but I get turned off by idiot heirs, and all anyone has said about Goku has turned me off), Shine Fighting Manga (SFM) don't have this.

SFM are all about the back and forth, the one guy winning until his opponent reveals his next transformation (or in JoJo until his opponent cones up with a plan). They attempt to make it look like the main character is going to lose until he pulls out Shinigami Saiyan 9 or whatever.

I'd say the parody is when Geno's does this and Saitama bored reacts to it. 'Yeah, this has been done so much it's boring'. As has been said, it's the world that draws people in.

[Kato]

Yes He Does. Thats my point. Even in Dragonball, the defining Shonen show, the exact same thing would happen to goku:

"Mwahahaha, Im big giant monster with superpowers talkin **** about you small boy"
"ONE PUNCH VICTORY!"

You don't GET to do a sigh at the camera if your doing what every other shonnen does anyway.

I'm not sure what episodes of DB you've seen but this is hardly ever the case, so....

[Scowling Dragon]

My last point:

The One Punch Gag has simply BEEN done in other shows. OPM is not doing anything new. And if the hook falls flat for me, all Im left with is everything else which I dislike.


FIN

[Chromascope3D]

Epilogue:


"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."


- Attributed to Mark Twain

[Frozen_Feet]

Comparing to Dragon Ball is silly because DB manga started as a gag comic and veers into parody and self-parody after Cell Saga. It's only 101% serious about itself for a brief while in the middle.

So of course a parody of DB would look a lot like DB, because DB is parody of itself half the time.

Reading the webcomic and the redrawn manga, One-Punch Man is following a similar track. Some of the later plot arcs don't actually have strong parodic element to them. Some of the jokes make a return periodically, but for example key parts of Garou's arc have nothing funny in them. They may pick apart Shonen tropes in other ways, but not for humour.

When I started readin One-Punch Man, or for that matter, Mob Psycho, One's other recent work, I honestly expected something MORE comedic, only to find the humour often too dry for my tastes. I kept following both series for the somber parts which nonetheless managed to show me something new.

[lord_khaine]

Epilogue:

Very fitting.


Reading the webcomic and the redrawn manga, One-Punch Man is following a similar track. Some of the later plot arcs don't actually have strong parodic element to them. Some of the jokes make a return periodically, but for example key parts of Garou's arc have nothing funny in them. They may pick apart Shonen tropes in other ways, but not for humour.

When I started readin One-Punch Man, or for that matter, Mob Psycho, One's other recent work, I honestly expected something MORE comedic, only to find the humour often too dry for my tastes. I kept following both series for the somber parts which nonetheless managed to show me something new.

I am also following the mange close, and must say i personally like the story a lot, as well for dry wit hidden in it.
And what i most of all find engaging is the struggles of everyone else in the cast that we follows, where Saitama then more acts like a force of nature and brief spark of humor.
Though really, even without Saitama then i think there would still be a good hero story left.

[Scowling Dragon]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

[Dienekes]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

Admittedly, anime fanboys can be a bit, extreme. I live with one. Told him I thought FMA: Brotherhood was not nearly as good as he thought, and, that turned into a whole ordeal. But others have admitted to not liking the show and no one really goes after them. The reason you draw ire is two things:

1) Your typing reads like you think you're superior to everyone else. Which, I get can be unintentional, since I know I'm guilty of that, too.

2) You say that the joke has been done before, people have asked "where?" and you haven't actually given an answer. In fact the one example you did give is the exact opposite.

[golentan]

Admittedly, anime fanboys can be a bit, extreme. I live with one. Told him I thought FMA: Brotherhood was not nearly as good as he thought, and, that turned into a whole ordeal. But others have admitted to not liking the show and no one really goes after them. The reason you draw ire is two things:

1) Your typing reads like you think you're superior to everyone else. Which, I get can be unintentional, since I know I'm guilty of that, too.

2) You say that the joke has been done before, people have asked "where?" and you haven't actually given an answer. In fact the one example you did give is the exact opposite.

Pretty much this, for me. I'm cool with critiquing things that I like (heck, I do it myself a LOT to find the bad points of stuff). I'm cool with people not liking the stuff I like.

But you have to have seen the stuff you are referencing if you're gonna critique it. If someone says "Arrested Development is just a bad show, you don't get to wink to audience for having standard sitcom plots, and every sitcom has an unlikeable family at the core of the writing" you're gonna get a lot of shouting from fans of Arrested Development who feel you missed the point dramatically and from fans of sitcoms in general who think you've rarely to never watched a sitcom, even if there may be a kernel of truth in the criticism. Pretending to walk off the stage like the ensuing argument ain't worth having isn't gonna help, either.

[Kato]

My last point:

The One Punch Gag has simply BEEN done in other shows. OPM is not doing anything new. And if the hook falls flat for me, all Im left with is everything else which I dislike.


FIN

I'm sorry if you feel offended. As I said, you're free to like or dislike whatever but I also have to agree with people you poorly if at all were able to defend your point. :smallfrown:

[Chromascope3D]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

Condescension is a form of insult. You admit to being condescending in your own signature, as though it's a badge of pride. When you act like the opinions of others are wrong just because you aren't willing to see their side, they tend to get a little irked, especially when you were the one who asked for their opinions in the first place. It makes it feel like you are just looking for a soapbox, which is not what a forum is for.

Also, you literally just followed up a comment about how you don't insult people with an insulting comment about other people.

[Scowling Dragon]

Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point. One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Its not even a dragonball thing....Heck I spent time to find something to help me stress my point:


https://youtu.be/DUQfInd0gLA?t=8m48s

(Skip Ahead to 8:48 for the main point)

Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

[golentan]

Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point. One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Its not even a dragonball thing....Heck I spent time to find something to help me stress my point:

~video snip~

(Skip Ahead to 8:48 for the main point)

Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

Okay, but note how the guy talks about how subversion or not, even if the word "subversion" is overused most of these shows are good shows in their own right, and how he acknowledges that for the story/gag it's telling, One Punch Man executes that story in the best way it could.

And again, as I said in my initial post on the topic, a large part of One Punch Man's appeal to me is that it does take the time to do other things and to dwell on the nature of desire, and consequences, and suffering and failure. And unlike most of the "subversive" shows it mentions, One Punch Man is generally optimistic about human nature, and meditates on the nature of heroism by showing a wide spectrum of types of heroes.

Again, you don't have to like the show. You don't have to find everything it does dripping in originality. But if you're gonna criticize it, you have to have some feeling for what it is actually doing.

And by the by, pretty much all of those "one hit kill" scenes the video mentions exist for a very different narrative purpose than Saitama's actions.

[Frozen_Feet]

@Scowling Dragon: the video you posted pretty much spells out what OPM's innovation is: it takes what is incidental part of the genre and makes it into a focal point.

The happenstance itself is not original; taking it and maintaining it as central premise of the series as long as OPM did is. But, as you could gather from my earlier comment, I agree with the video that it's worth is not really in being a subversion or parody of the Shonen series. But at the same time, that's why your criticism is falling to deaf ears. There's innovative things in OPM that have nothing at all to do with subverting or parodying Shonen fighting series. Heck, I read the webcomic to see One's original art style. The redrawn manga uses some pretty unusual paneling and detail. Can't speak for the anime due to not having watched most of it.

[Razade]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

No one's insulted you here.


Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

If you immediately consider people "being touchy" when they ask for evidence of your wild assertions you must feel like you live in a hyper-sensitive world...I think you should look inward if that really is the case because it isn't the world that's hypersensitive to critical analysis. It's you.


Its not even a gag as just a easily recurring thing in Fighting Mangas.

[QUOTE=Scowling Dragon;21918282]"Dragonball did it only when it was a gag Manga!"

I don't get how thats a repudiation of my point.

Well....

1. People are overstating how much the "one punch" happened even when it was a gag manga. It didn't happen that often.
2. Dragon Ball's gag run was...rather short comparative to its still ongoing run. It's a footnote of the series, not the face of it.


One Punch man isn't really doing anything original even as a Gag Manga. Outside of novelty factor I find nothing to my liking.

Cool! Don't watch it! No one here's telling you your feeling is wrong. They're pointing out your criticisms outside of "it's just not for me" aren't founded in reality.



Like is because most fights in other fighting shonen don't end with one punch somehow that is all it takes to make this gag all original or something?

You're the only one who cares if it's original.

[Drascin]

Well, at least I don't insult people that like stuff that I don't like.

Eh, people are hyper-touchy about their Japanese entertainment.

I feel I should point out that yes, you kind of do. Which is part of why people react to your comments in such ways. Condescending at people is basically the same as telling them you think they're idiots, and people don't react super well to being treated like idiots.

[Psyren]

The other thing about One Punch Man is that it's drawn really, really well. For all Saitama's ending fights with one punch, the fights that happen in the show are much more interesting than that would imply, because other characters fight as much or more than Saitama does.

This is a major point, and part of what make's this show's satire so appealing. When you get right down to it, most shonen fights ARE ended in one punch, or one beam struggle, or one final sword move. Yet we are okay with those because there's a lot of interesting and dramatic slash-and-parry before that concluding moment. One Punch Man is no different - it just draws more attention to the final blow by making it the protagonist's signature.

[eggynack]

There's a lot I love about One Punch Man. For one thing, the one punching itself. The way it's done is nearly always amusing to me. Just his facial expression, combined with the surrounding situation, and sometimes the words being used. What was the one he used in the first animal creature episode? Four consecutive normal punches, I think. Frigging brilliant. I love a lot of Saitama stuff really, and it's a great sign when your main character is my favorite. I love him demanding a shorter speech, or running off to the supermarket (and I especially love Genos just getting it immediately, and being fully invested in this as a problem), or acting just as apathetic in the face of jerk threats as he does to monster threats. Basically any scene with him in it is great stuff. To some extent, the show is about Saitama hoping to find a fight he can get invested in, but another huge part of the show is just him not really caring about a bunch of stuff, and while that doesn't sound all that great, I find it's done in a really consistently fun way.

There's other stuff I love too though. Mostly in the form of other characters. Mumen Rider is a classic, Genos is solid, especially in Saitama interactions, and most of the other heroes throughout the various levels are pretty interesting and fleshed out. Sometimes the, "Characters that aren't Saitama fight something poorly," scenes don't work that well, particularly that one with the vegetable tentacle monster fight, in my opinion, but stuff like the Sea King fights, and the alien invasion fights, were pretty creative, amusing, and interesting.

Oh, also all that thematic stuff too. Subversions and nihilism or whatever. Theme is great. A lot of it, though, is down to the fact that it's just a really well made show on every level. Good characters, good plot, funny lines/events, reasonable pacing, good animation, good music, dynamic fight scenes, what more could you really want? I would contend two things. First, that the underlying premise of the show is rather original. A character that wins every fight, no matter its nature, trivially, with the only limiting factor that he's sometimes not where the fight is, is really novel from my experience of media. Second, that the underlying premise doesn't have to be original. Because the show is good. I doubt it's just another member of its genre, but if it is, it's a really good one, and that's good enough for me.

[Phobia]

"Guy starts out being a condescending jerk but switches to victim mid-way through people responding" isn't very original either but here you are.

[Knaight]

This is a major point, and part of what make's this show's satire so appealing. When you get right down to it, most shonen fights ARE ended in one punch, or one beam struggle, or one final sword move. Yet we are okay with those because there's a lot of interesting and dramatic slash-and-parry before that concluding moment. One Punch Man is no different - it just draws more attention to the final blow by making it the protagonist's signature.

That's not really the same thing though - the fight ending in the one shot that gets through is pretty standard (it certainly has plenty of historical precedent, although so does taking multiple smaller wounds). The fight ending in the one shot made at all is fairly distinct, which is theoretically the central joke of OPM (I watched part of it, but it really didn't appeal at all so I ditched it pretty quickly).

[Leewei]

"Guy starts out being a condescending jerk but switches to victim mid-way through people responding" isn't very original either but here you are.
I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to the guy in the emergency shelter who stepped up to get beat down by Sea King?

For me, the charm of the show lies in its ironically mundane humor, as well as its delicious subversion of the anime "not yet my final form" cliche. It also has some genuine, played straight, heroism from time to time, to keep you engaged.

[Knaight]

I'm not sure I follow. Are you referring to the guy in the emergency shelter who stepped up to get beat down by Sea King?

I'm pretty sure that line is aimed less toward OPM and more towards this thread.

[Traab]

That's not really the same thing though - the fight ending in the one shot that gets through is pretty standard (it certainly has plenty of historical precedent, although so does taking multiple smaller wounds). The fight ending in the one shot made at all is fairly distinct, which is theoretically the central joke of OPM (I watched part of it, but it really didn't appeal at all so I ditched it pretty quickly).

I agree, while its true most fights end that way, its far more rare that thats all the fight there is. Its usually only done in two scenarios

A) To show off just how insanely powerful the new character is, to demonstrate how far the hero has to go before he can fight on that level. As an example, in early bleach when byakuya takes rukia back to soul society and just casually obliterates ichigo "You even fall slow" /stab again

B) To show off just how absurdly powerful the hero has become. As an example from one piece, when the crew are being attacked by like, 50,000 bad guys, and luffy just walks up, looks at them, and half of the force drops from his use of conquerors haki. Most commonly done after a training timeskip of some sort, ichigo training in uruharas basement area before they invade soul society, the two years for the one piece crew, etc etc etc.

Meanwhile the entire collection of one punch battles are B) Yeah the bad guy might land a few billion hits, but its blatantly obvious they should have used all that effort to arrange a closed casket funeral for themselves, because saitama casually winds back and ends the fight in a single shot. Admittedly im only watching an episode here and there, so im only at the one where he goes in to become an official hero, but it seems that while yes the joke is he beats everyone with no effort, the real interesting part is everything else going on around him. All the character interaction and such. Personally, I find the various backstories and motivations amusing as heck. The 10,000 foot tall giant who just wanted to be the strongest body guilder ever and his crazy scientist brother, the hammerhead guy and his army of power suit using dudes who dont want to have to work for a living, its all so bizarre and entertaining to see these obvious parodies of origin stories.

[Psyren]

I agree, while its true most fights end that way, its far more rare that thats all the fight there is.

My point is that that's NOT "all the fight there is." Even in OPM. If it were, I'd agree it would be boring - but it's not, and isn't.

[Knaight]

My point is that that's NOT "all the fight there is." Even in OPM. If it were, I'd agree it would be boring - but it's not, and isn't.

There's definitely some amount of Saitama just showing up and decking a guy in the earlier episodes, where that's about the extent of the fight. I can't comment on the later ones.

As for whether that makes it boring, I personally found OPM pretty boring there - but not so much because the fights weren't interesting. There are interesting fights in Naruto, Bleach, DBZ, and a lot of the other really low grade Shonen that makes it to U.S. TV. The shows are still boring though, because other than the fights there's not really much to them, and even a bunch of really interesting fights strung together gets old after a while (certainly compared to the episode count of these shows). Similarly if you took something like Moribito and made the fights all end nigh instantaneously the overall show would still be solid, because of everything else to it. It would be worse, but not actually boring.

[Psyren]

There's definitely some amount of Saitama just showing up and decking a guy in the earlier episodes, where that's about the extent of the fight. I can't comment on the later ones.

When that happens though it's played for laughs. No different than, say, Goku one-shotting Recoome.

[Delicious Taffy]

{Scrubbed}

[BRC]

One Punch Man (At least in it's Anime incarnation, which is the only version I've seen. IIRC there was an original webcomic, and then later a Manga adaptation done by a professional artist), falls into that catagory of "Loving Parody", in that in order to enjoy it you need to both enjoy Shonen tropes while also being able to laugh at them. One Punch Man isn't exactly an insightful commentary on the Shonen Genre, nor are it's observations especially original.


So, let's start with the Parody aspect. With most Heroic Fantasy works (And Shonen definitely counts), the Hero's Triumph is usually inevitable, whether it's Goku, Superman, Naruto, James Bond, Joseph Jostar, Vash the Stampede, John McClane, ect, you know that the Hero is going to win in the end. So, What are you watching for?
1) Suspense. Shonen has its roots as children's entertainment. Anybody older than, say, fifteen isn't seriously going to question if the Villain will win. But, the same thing can be said for just about any heroic fantasy work. So, we allow ourselves to be tricked. After all, THIS Villain is a 2000 year old alien warrior who trains by punching suns into black holes, maybe THIS will be the one that defeats our hero! Because that's more fun. The works help you do this, they'll start by demonstrating the awesome power of this individual villain so that you can convince yourself that maybe the Hero won't lose.

2) Mystery. HOW will they win? Sometimes it's pretty obvious, the Hero just hits harder and moves faster than the villain realizes, potentially tapping into hidden energy reserves, or revealing some new technique that they mastered off-camera. Other times there's some mystery to solve, or a weakness to exploit. Something that makes the impossible possible, allowing the Hero to win. James Bond realizes that the disarm code for the death ray is the villain's dead wife's name, Superman tricks mister myxlplyx into saying his name backwards. Just because we know the hero WILL win doesn't mean we know how it happens.
JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, from Stardust Crusaders onwards, is a great example of this. In both Stardust Crusaders and Diamonds are Unbreakable, the Heroes are usually absurdly powerful direct combatants. The enemy Stands tend to attack indirectly, and the Heroes need to figure out some trick or exploit in the enemy Stand to defeat them, usually using some clever application of one of their Stand's powers.

3) The Pure adrenaline of seeing a well-done action scene. Feeling the heroic fantasy of the villain being struck down. The surge of excitement that comes from hearing about Epic Feats which has motivated storytelling as far back as the epic of Gilgamesh.


So, what does One Punch Man do? Well, it completely deprives you of the first two reasons. While they still go through the motions of hyping up each new foe, they never imply that its a threat to Saitama He doesn't get battered and bruised in a fight. He doesn't need to reveal new techniques, or tap into previously unknown reservoirs of strength and determination. There isn't even much mystery to how he will win. The title of the show tells you how each fight will go. One Punch.

The entire "Hyping up the Villain" bit becomes Buffoonish, but it's no more ridiculous than anything done by other works. The only difference is that, with One-Punch Man, there's no pretense that the villain is actually a threat. The whole thing becomes tinged with dramatic irony. We see this monster going on and on about his unstoppable strength, and we know that he's going to go down after one punch from a bald guy in long pajamas.

If you've ever seen the video of some guy on the street unknowingly picking a fight with a master martial artist, the whole "They're so full of themselves, but so out of their depths" thing.

I'm not going to go out and say that One Punch Man is the first and only work to do this, but it is certainly the most famous.

As for why it works so well? Well, there are two reasons.

1) While One Punch Man subverts Shonen tropes (to the degree that it deliberately deprives the viewer of much of what makes Shonen enjoyable), it ALSO has all the makings of an excellent Shonen series. The action scenes are wonderfully animated, the various heroes and villains are fun and distinct from one another. The scale of events is suitably epic. While you don't get much in the way of suspense, the show delivers awe and adrenaline in spades.

2) The Comedy of Contrasts. The show derives most of it's humor from contrasts. The epic, unstoppable threats, contrasted by the ease with which Saitama defeats them is the first joke. The awesome power Saitama wields, contrasted by his appearance, personality, and lifestyle is another. Saitama's nonchalance in the face of scenery chewing monsters and the massive devastation. At the same time, the thrilling nature of the superhero battles contrasts with the bureaucracy of the Hero Organization itself.

Basically, the contrast between this (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/atxYe-nOa9w/hqdefault.jpg)

And This (http://1pun.ch/img/goofysmile.png)

One Punch Man works because, while the Core is a solid, if basic parody of Shonen tropes, the core is supported by strong fundamentals. The Action Scenes are fun to watch, the writing is enjoyable, and the jokes are fun the laugh at.

[Knaight]

When that happens though it's played for laughs. No different than, say, Goku one-shotting Recoome.

I get that; I just didn't find it funny. I tend to be picky though - there are large swaths of the nerd canon that I absolutely despise, and mildly disliking OPM is a much smaller deviation from standard than my visceral hatred for Forrest Gump or strong distaste for Ghostbusters. BRC's comment above on loving parody and the necessity of liking the underlying tropes applies here, where I tend not to like a lot of these tropes in the first place and would thus favor parodies a bit more hostile.

[BRC]

I get that; I just didn't find it funny. I tend to be picky though - there are large swaths of the nerd canon that I absolutely despise, and mildly disliking OPM is a much smaller deviation from standard than my visceral hatred for Forrest Gump or strong distaste for Ghostbusters. BRC's comment above on loving parody and the necessity of liking the underlying tropes applies here, where I tend not to like a lot of these tropes in the first place and would thus favor parodies a bit more hostile.

While One Punch Man may be a Parody of Shonen tropes, it is not a Deconstruction, Satire, or Criticism. That's why Scowling Dragon is saying that OPM "Isn't saying anything new about Shonen", because OPM isn't really saying ANYTHING about shonen.

In a "Straight" Shonen, you have a lengthy sequence hyping up the power of the new villain, declaring how they're SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL than the previous villain, and how the hero has NO CHANCE AGAINST THEM! Ending in a fight where the hero wins.

A Satire of Shonen would replace this sequence with one criticizing how predictable and trite the whole "Hype-defeat" cycle is. "Yeah, that's what the last six invaders said, just before the hero remembered that he was fighting to save his friends and punched them into the sun".

One Punch Man treats the Hype-up sequence exactly like a straight Shonen would. The villain arrives, smacks around some secondary characters, declares/demonstrates their awesome power, ect ect. Rather than menacing, the entire thing becomes comedic because we know exactly how it's going to end. Saitama will show up and punch them once. The more the show takes itself seriously before that point, the funnier it is.

But the joke isn't on other Shonen, the joke is on the characters. Whatever villain is declaring their awesome power this week.


You know the old "Bat-God' jokes, concerning Vs Threads. In his comics, it's inevitable that Batman wins, because that's the way the narrative goes. So, Batman can fight aliens and wizards and supercriminals and all sorts of things that should by all rights kick his ass, and he always wins, because he's Batman, and this is a Batman story.

Well, when discussing "Who would Win", people discounted the narrative inevitability of Batman's victories, and calculate his capabilities assuming that the outcome to all those stories was inevitable. As if, instead of a writer sitting down and saying "Alright, in this story, The Joker and an army of goons try to blow up Gotham, and Batman stops them", they punched "Batman vs Joker+Goon Army" into a simulation and made a comic out of the result.

With One Punch Man, the narrative inevitability matches the hypothetical simulation exactly. "Mile Tall, superstrong giant vs Guy who can dodge anything and defeat anything in one punch". "Evil Super Robot vs Guy who can dodge anything and defeat anything in one punch".

But, it doesn't say anything about, say, DBZ or JoJos Bizzare Adventure, because those DON'T feature unstoppable protagonists who can defeat anything in one punch.

[Foeofthelance]

The major thing about One Punch Man is that Saitama's story arc doesn't appear to be resolvable by defeating a big bad villain. He's already at that point where the entire fight becomes meaningless and so he's bored with life. That is his actual goal: finding a meaning in life. He didn't have it by being an everyday salaryman, but he also wasn't able to find it in just becoming the strongest there is. All of Saitama's growth is dependent on the other characters around him and his interactions with them; whether that be by inspiring the other Class C heroes to actually be the sort of heroes the Class S types are supposed to be, or sacrificing his own ego to protect the reputations that the others had already earned. It's more of a "What do you get the guy who already has everything?" question, just wrapped in a comedic shonen series. For some it works, for others...eh.

[Anonymouswizard]

"What do you get the guy who already has everything?"

A box to put it in? :smalltongue:

I think you've got it spot on here. The series is about Saitama and his quest to find something fulfilling. If you can't get interested in that then you won't enjoy the series. I was absorbed in that hunt and so love the show, but it's also fine not to be. I literally cannot see how Game of Thrones is supposed to be easy to get into (although I only haven't read A Song of Ice and Fire because the books are in storage). People enjoy different things, and there's no problem with finding Star Wars to be a poor man's Lensman (I mean, it sort of is, but it's also easier to get into).

[Arbane]

The major thing about One Punch Man is that Saitama's story arc doesn't appear to be resolvable by defeating a big bad villain. He's already at that point where the entire fight becomes meaningless and so he's bored with life. That is his actual goal: finding a meaning in life. He didn't have it by being an everyday salaryman, but he also wasn't able to find it in just becoming the strongest there is. All of Saitama's growth is dependent on the other characters around him and his interactions with them; whether that be by inspiring the other Class C heroes to actually be the sort of heroes the Class S types are supposed to be, or sacrificing his own ego to protect the reputations that the others had already earned. It's more of a "What do you get the guy who already has everything?" question, just wrapped in a comedic shonen series. For some it works, for others...eh.

I like a description I read somewhere - it's a typical shonen fight manga plot but from the other side. Saitama doesn't need to training to become stronger or learn any Special Techniques, he's got the 'winning fights' part covered. What he needs is to make friends, get a little respect from his fellow heroes, and maybe find a way to break out of his rut.