Whirling Frenzy, Flurry of Blows, and Haste?

[SangoProduction]

OK. So, let's assume you had just a bunch of attack bonus, which you can't burn off through power attack. You also have a lot of on-hit damage/rider effects (sneak attack, etc). So, you are now looking at ways to get as many attacks as possible, with as little investment as possible. Well, I've got a bit going on.

With 1 level of barbarian, you can get Whirling Frenzy, which grants +1 attack/round for -2 to all attacks (but +4 str, so +0 to hit for melee, with more damage).

With 1 level of Monk, you gain that same thing again, but only for certain weapons...all day...as though that mattered. (We'll also consider the level of monk as -1 to attack for not having BAB.) Another level of monk would net an alternative feature that'd let you go invisible occasionally, granting some nice survivability.

Quarterstaff could be used as a double-weapon, allowing TWF, so yet another attack for -2 to all attacks, but for a feat instead of a level.

And lastly, we have Haste, which grants +1 attack, for +1 to hit. What? That's a change. Oh right. Magic. Find a way to cast/get it cast on you. The last couple of effects aren't Haste-like. Alternatively, find one of those haste-like magic items, like the Speed enchantment.

So, through all that trouble, you get 4 extra attacks per round at full BAB, and suffer -4 to hit. All at the cost of 2 levels (one of which potentially grants charge), 1 feat, and spell casts. That seems relatively potent.

[Remuko]

Alignment restrictions could cause a problem but if you also take lion totem you can have pounce as well. So is the build like Barb 1/Monk 1/Sneak Attack Fighter 18 or something?

[Rebel7284]

Add Snap Kick and Gloves of the Balanced Hands for good measure. :)

There is also a Barbarian "Brawler" ACF in a Dragon Magazine somewhere that gives you TWF with unarmed strikes or light weapons which would fit this build.

It works, although there are some concerns.

1. Alignment: Typically you can't have a Barbarian Monk, and a Barbarian who becomes lawful can no longer rage. You can of course start with Monk and then change alignment, but not all DMs are happy with this.

2. Quarterstaff is quite a mediocre weapon. I mean, unless you have some levels in druid or a friendly wizard to cast Greater Mighty Wallop on it.

3. Tied with 2, Power Attack tends to offer a great incentive to use a two-handed weapon, so a better attack routine may be to two-hand the quarterstaff and then use your unarmed strike as the second weapon (hurray for monk?)

4. In general, you only have limited resources. Making a lot of attacks is very nice if you have extra dice of damage, like sneak attack or some other rider to each attack. However, it's often easier to optimize your attack dealing more damage than focusing on getting more attacks. That loss of BAB for Monk and the extra feat possibly spent on TWF will delay your Shock Trooper/Leap Attack.

[Remuko]

Add Snap Kick and Gloves of the Balanced Hands for good measure. :)

There is also a Barbarian "Brawler" ACF in a Dragon Magazine somewhere that gives you TWF with unarmed strikes or light weapons which would fit this build.

It works, although there are some concerns.

4. In general, you only have limited resources. Making a lot of attacks is very nice if you have extra dice of damage, like sneak attack or some other rider to each attack. However, it's often easier to optimize your attack dealing more damage than focusing on getting more attacks. That loss of BAB for Monk and the extra feat possibly spent on TWF will delay your Shock Trooper/Leap Attack.

If you went with what I said, it uses Sneak Attack Fighter 18 which afaik gets full BAB still so the build would have 19 BAB at lvl 20. Not a large delay. Then again I suppose it depends when you want this to come online, but if youre not ubercharging you don't need those feats anyways so I guess its moot. The build is about riders like sneak attack so I think twf is better than power attack ubercharging with shocktrooper etc.

[Rebel7284]

If you went with what I said, it uses Sneak Attack Fighter 18 which afaik gets full BAB still so the build would have 19 BAB at lvl 20. Not a large delay. Then again I suppose it depends when you want this to come online, but if youre not ubercharging you don't need those feats anyways so I guess its moot. The build is about riders like sneak attack so I think twf is better than power attack ubercharging with shocktrooper etc.

Might as well go Monk 2 in that build for Invisible Fist if you want to rely on sneak attack. Also, hit and run variant fighter.

It certainly works. It will get less impressive numbers for most of the career that a pure uber charger and many things are immune to sneak attack, but for an average campaign that's fine! Less reliance on charging is nice too.

Also, here are some other interesting ways to get attacks:
1. Avalanche of Blades Maneuver gives you lots of attacks if you can get your attack bonus high enough.
2. Shadow Pounce class feature gives you a full attack when you teleport.
3. Time Stands Still gives you an extra full attack. Can be combined with Eternal Blade capstone for three full attacks at level 20.
4. Natural weapons are really nice for extra attacks. You can get lots of them for 0 or 1 LA or with spells/class features.

[SangoProduction]

The point wasn't to make something that competes with the ubercharger or even a natural attack stacker. It was just to see how many attacks we could get with as low an investment as possible.

Snap kick definitely works. Gloves of the Balanced hand. Reduce the cost of the offhand attack by one feat, or gives a bonus attack without a global attack penalty, for a really small amount of gold.

Lightning Fists possibly work if you can stomach 2 to 3 more monk levels, even if it's less economical (penalty to bonus attacks wise). All in all, it's probably too much investment for a subpar option.

[Zaq]

Hmm. Could we start throwing our weapons and take Rapid Shot?

There's also a feat in Sandstorm (I think it's called Eagle's Fury or something similar) that gives you an additional attack with an eagle's claw (applying a –2 to your whole suite of attacks, just like Rapid Shot or Flurry of Blows or whatever), but since an eagle's claw is an exotic weapon, that either costs two feats or a feat and a race (asherati treat the eagle's claw as martial). If you're using Flurry of Blows, though, the fact that it's not a Monk weapon might be troubling.

Can we tack on any secondary natural attacks? It's not that hard to get a bite attack, for instance.

[SangoProduction]

Hmm. Could we start throwing our weapons and take Rapid Shot?

There's also a feat in Sandstorm (I think it's called Eagle's Fury or something similar) that gives you an additional attack with an eagle's claw (applying a –2 to your whole suite of attacks, just like Rapid Shot or Flurry of Blows or whatever), but since an eagle's claw is an exotic weapon, that either costs two feats or a feat and a race (asherati treat the eagle's claw as martial). If you're using Flurry of Blows, though, the fact that it's not a Monk weapon might be troubling.

Can we tack on any secondary natural attacks? It's not that hard to get a bite attack, for instance.

I...honestly have no idea whether it's possible to throw the weapons and still benefit from everything. I mean...I guess there's not really anything saying that we can't, so long as we are using the correct weapons for Flurry. I wonder. Could you TWF with thro...no. That's stupid. No thrown quarterstaffs spinning in mid air and hitting people multiple times. But you could TWF smaller monk weapons.

The problem becomes fueling the attacks to make them mean anything. Enchanting one weapon is easy. Enchanting 5-10? A little harder. Bloodstorm Blade makes it slightly easier.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Slashing Flurry gets you another attack with any slashing weapon. Rapid Shot with a shuriken adds another attack to your flurry, as well.

[OldTrees1]

The point wasn't to make something that competes with the ubercharger or even a natural attack stacker. It was just to see how many attacks we could get with as low an investment as possible.

Fighter 2 adds 1 more attack at a -3 penalty to all (Kensai: Rain of Blows)
Fighter 4 adds 2 more attacks at a -6 penalty to all (Kensai: Storm of Blows)

[Grod_The_Giant]

I...honestly have no idea whether it's possible to throw the weapons and still benefit from everything. I mean...I guess there's not really anything saying that we can't, so long as we are using the correct weapons for Flurry. I wonder. Could you TWF with thro...no. That's stupid. No thrown quarterstaffs spinning in mid air and hitting people multiple times. But you could TWF smaller monk weapons.

The problem becomes fueling the attacks to make them mean anything. Enchanting one weapon is easy. Enchanting 5-10? A little harder. Bloodstorm Blade makes it slightly easier.
Soulbow can create as many mind arrows as you can make attacks. You lose Flurry and Snap Kick, but you gain Rapid Shot and (Greater) Manyshot for when you can't full attack.