Optimization help needed: a low-level wizard who casts True Strike and throws x

[Jon_Dahl]

I never get to play, but someday I'd like to create a low-level wizard that carries around a weapon that he can't use effectively (no proficiency etc.). In combat, he casts True Strike and throws this weapon as a range attack. He always has a True Strike prepared for this. He loves this tactic so much, that he would like to continue using the tactic at higher levels as well, but True Strike would be quickened.

I would like to know what would be the most optimal weapon for this tactic.

My suggestion is a longsword that is one size category larger than the wizard. That weapon would have a decent price and weight, and still do a lot of damage, and the crit range would not matter in this case.

[noob]

why doing that over other better tactics.
I am not supposed to judge but since you are going on a so much under-optimized homebrewed concept(I believe that according to the rules throwing a weapon will do damage related not to the weapon at all but only to its mass)
well since according to the rules the damage of an improvised weapon is based on mass or "whichever weapon is most similar" (which does not means anything) and that the weapon most similar to a improvised thrown weapon shaped like a sword is probably either thrown hatchets or shurikens then it means that it is not similar enough to other thrown weapons to use thrown weapon stats(and no it is not similar to a sword because if you was using it like if it was similar to a sword you would not be able to throw it since swords can not be thrown without being used like an improvised thrown weapon which does not defaults to sword damage)
So it means that in fact you should throw something heavy(there is a table for damage in function of mass for improvised weapons) or a real thrown weapon and not a melee weapon.
The ruling that it would do the melee weapon damage at range is 100% homeruled there is no raw support for this at all.

[Florian]

Like this? http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Wizard%20Sword%20B inder

[Jon_Dahl]

Like this? http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Wizard%20Sword%20B inder

No, not like that, but thank you for the feedback.

[Lazymancer]

In combat, he casts True Strike and throws this weapon as a range attack. He always has a True Strike prepared for this. He loves this tactic so much, that he would like to continue using the tactic at higher levels as well, but True Strike would be quickened.

I would like to know what would be the most optimal weapon for this tactic.
Crossbow. Preferably, Heavy - for 1d10 damage. You need to carefully load it with the sharpest bolt you can find (ideally, adamantite), aim it at your eye, and gently squeeze the trigger. You want Sorcerer, not Wizard.

Wizard is for those who search for perfect solutions to their problems.
Sorcerer is for those who search for perfect problems to their solutions.

You have a solution. Ergo, you want Sorcerer.

Greathammer (RoS). Spells of note: Mighty Wallop (RotD) for 4d6 damage. At 4th level - Enlarge Weapon (CSc), for 6d6 damage. At 6th level Threesteel (DoF) for throwing it at three targets - note that it could be Chained with metamagic rod and cast on a bunch of weapons. At 8th level Greater Wighty Wallop (RotD) for 8d8 damage and 1h/CL buff.

Also, Master's Touch (SpC) grants proficiency.

[Bullet06320]

theres always the throw anything feat from sword and fist

[Uncle Pine]

why doing that over other better tactics.
I am not supposed to judge but since you are going on a so much under-optimized homebrewed concept(I believe that according to the rules throwing a weapon will do damage related not to the weapon at all but only to its mass)
well since according to the rules the damage of an improvised weapon is based on mass or "whichever weapon is most similar" (which does not means anything) and that the weapon most similar to a improvised thrown weapon shaped like a sword is probably either thrown hatchets or shurikens then it means that it is not similar enough to other thrown weapons to use thrown weapon stats(and no it is not similar to a sword because if you was using it like if it was similar to a sword you would not be able to throw it since swords can not be thrown without being used like an improvised thrown weapon which does not defaults to sword damage)
So it means that in fact you should throw something heavy(there is a table for damage in function of mass for improvised weapons) or a real thrown weapon and not a melee weapon.
The ruling that it would do the melee weapon damage at range is 100% homeruled there is no raw support for this at all.
Throwing weapons not designed to be thrown deals damage as normal, but you attack at a penalty:

Thrown Weapons
Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn’t designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn’t have a numeric entry in the Range Increment column on Table: Weapons), but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
It's only when you throw objects or weapons you can't wield as such (for example, a Huge greatsword as a Diminutive character) that you use the table in Complete Warrior for the damage of improvised weapons.


I never get to play, but someday I'd like to create a low-level wizard that carries around a weapon that he can't use effectively (no proficiency etc.). In combat, he casts True Strike and throws this weapon as a range attack. He always has a True Strike prepared for this. He loves this tactic so much, that he would like to continue using the tactic at higher levels as well, but True Strike would be quickened.

I would like to know what would be the most optimal weapon for this tactic.

My suggestion is a longsword that is one size category larger than the wizard. That weapon would have a decent price and weight, and still do a lot of damage, and the crit range would not matter in this case.
This is a nice idea, but the result will likely be terrible if you try to execute it with True Strike. If you want to throw your big weapon around as a Wizard, you're better off using spells like Whirling Blade (SC, 2nd level) or Animate Weapon (CA, 3rd level). Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?418323-How-to-make-swords-fly)'s also a thread I found on the site with a big list of other effects that do similar things to what you're trying to achieve.

[Jon_Dahl]

Just out of curiosity: how am I supposed to use True Strike, then? Having a True Striking wizard is one of the key elements of the "build"...

[Inevitability]

If your GM's okay with Launch Bolt working size-independently, colossal bolts deal 6d6 damage. That's about 20 damage at the cost of a cantrip and a 1st-level spell, with one round of buffing required per attack. It's not great damage, but it can easily take out many low-level opponents regardless of AC.

[Uncle Pine]

Just out of curiosity: how am I supposed to use True Strike, then? Having a True Striking wizard is one of the key elements of the "build"...

True Strike is applied to the next attack you make before the end of the next round. You can combine it with stuff like Whirling Blade just like you would do it with a normal melee or ranged attack: by wasting one round casting it, then acting normally on the following round.
There's another way to make better use of True Strike if you don't mind psionic items and splatbook (or in this case web article) diving: by combining expanded psionic tattoos (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a) and Spell to Power Erudite (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) you can buy a reusable quickened True Strike tattoo (=mental tap True Strike tatto linked to a capacitor and a transducer) for 3,350 gp. Acquire any source of extra power points (manifesting weapons or shurikens, cognizance crystals, a psionic friend, follower or henchman) and you can freely spam it while attacking or casting spells in the same round. No dipping or feats required, although you will end up as a Wizard with some cool tattoos (or piercings) somewhere on your body.

[Segev]

I'll second the "use Sorcerer" suggestion, because it'll let you cast true strike more times per day. Have unseen servant as your other spell known at first level, and use a heavy crossbow. Then get some rudimentary stealth skill. You're a sniper. Find a good vantage point and line up your shot from a range increment or more away.

You cast true strike while your unseen servant loads the crossbow. It hands it to you at the end of its round and you fire next round, while true strike is active. Use a bat familiar as a spotter; then you don't even need to really see the target. Just know what square he's in by spotting on your bat. True strike negates concealment miss chances. As long as the target lacks hard cover, you fire without penalty and a +20 to hit.

As you level up, find ways to beef up your single-shot damage. Sneak Attack is right out; you don't want to be within 30 feet of your targets.

[Jon_Dahl]

for 3,350 gp.

Thank you for the excellent reply, but I really want to emphasize that I meant what I said when I said "a low-level wizard".

Sorcerer is a big no-no, because I want just one True Strike per day and that will be used to throw a (massive) weapon at someone's face. With a True Strike sorcerer, I'd need something more, as in more ammo.

All in all, it seems that my idea is not well received here, and I get very little answers to my original question, which leads me into believe that a large longsword is the best way to go.

[Jormengand]

Throw your familiar. Deliver touch spells. Pow! Shocking grasp right to the face! Also now they have a housecat on their face, and that kills commoners.

This suggestion is mostly sarcastic but sadly, I'm sure there's some way to make it viable.

[noob]

Definitively more viable than throwing swords.

[Bronk]

Thank you for the excellent reply, but I really want to emphasize that I meant what I said when I said "a low-level wizard".

Sorcerer is a big no-no, because I want just one True Strike per day and that will be used to throw a (massive) weapon at someone's face. With a True Strike sorcerer, I'd need something more, as in more ammo.

All in all, it seems that my idea is not well received here, and I get very little answers to my original question, which leads me into believe that a large longsword is the best way to go.

The only real problem I'm seeing is that without a way to quicken your spell or get another action, you'll only get to do your trick every other round.

[Uncle Pine]

Thank you for the excellent reply, but I really want to emphasize that I meant what I said when I said "a low-level wizard".

Sorcerer is a big no-no, because I want just one True Strike per day and that will be used to throw a (massive) weapon at someone's face. With a True Strike sorcerer, I'd need something more, as in more ammo.

All in all, it seems that my idea is not well received here, and I get very little answers to my original question, which leads me into believe that a large longsword is the best way to go.

3,350 gp is pretty cheap and almost within 50% of the starting WBL of a 4th level character (meaning that you can afford it by 5th level), but looking back at your OP I realize that I indeed focused way more on the "He loves this tactic so much, that he would like to continue using the tactic at higher levels as well" part than the actual question, which led me to focus on how to scale the tactic better at higher levels than 1st instead of, well, answering to the question. My bad.

Because you're not going to focus feats on proficiency, as you don't want to, I'd advise to use a Large bastard sword instead of a Large longsword (2d8 vs 2d6, same crit range and multiplier).

Since you like your sword that much, you could also try to turn it into a focus for all your spells in general. There's an ACF for that in one of the Dragon Magazines, I'm going to try and see if I can find it.

EDIT: Focus Caster, Dragon #348. Among other benefits, you're also considered proficient in the masterwork weapon you turn into your focus, so that alone would give you +4 to-hit by negating nonproficiency penalties.

[Lazymancer]

Sorcerer is a big no-no, because I want just one True Strike per day and that will be used to throw a (massive) weapon at someone's face. With a True Strike sorcerer, I'd need something more, as in more ammo.
You sure you are talking about DnD? Because you aren't making any sense here.

[Zaq]

Sorcerer is a big no-no, because I want just one True Strike per day and that will be used to throw a (massive) weapon at someone's face. With a True Strike sorcerer, I'd need something more, as in more ammo.

If you just want to do this once per day . . . then just prep True Strike once per day. You've already figured out that True Strike will likely overwhelm the penalty you're taking for using a weapon you're not proficient in (and/or a weapon that isn't designed for throwing and/or an oversized weapon, though by the time we stack ALL of those things and account for low STR and low BAB, you might actually need to care about your roll), so what's left to do? Just figure out the biggest weapon you can lug around without feeling too silly, prep one True Strike a day, and then act like a normal Wizard the rest of the time.

[Segev]

You might get more mileage out of a large throwing weapon than a large not-meant-to-be-thrown weapon. That said, if you're dead-set on a weapon too big for you that does the most possible damage, then just find the large one-handed weapon that does the most damage. If it's longsword, great.

I'm not sure why you want to put this much effort into a 1/day trick, when you could make it more than 1/day; is there more to this concept?

[Gildedragon]

A) large dagger (looks like a short sword)
B) put a true strike in a glyph seal on a bonus spell-opponent pouch. Open pouch for free, toss dagger

[Segev]

What're glyph-seals from, and can you please give the specifics on their functioning?

[Jon_Dahl]

I'm not sure why you want to put this much effort into a 1/day trick, when you could make it more than 1/day; is there more to this concept?

It's because it's very very very cool. Very cool. It wouldn't be cool if I spammed it. It's the Day's Special. No, there is nothing more to this concept. You have all the information in the OP.

[Segev]

You might want to consider a siege weapon, then. Ballista or catapult? There's a PF archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo-wizard-archetypes/siege-mage/) for a mage that specializes in this.

Now, if your mental image is that he just has this one huge weapon he carries to hurl at somebody once per day, go ahead with your large longsword, and look to your spells at higher levels for ways to improve on this trick. Whirling blade is a good one; it makes it a line attack.

That said, what else would you like this wizard to be doing when he's NOT doing his 1/day trick?

[Gildedragon]

You could always get a minor schema of true strike written into the blade... Read once, toss

Or the psionic tattoo thing and let it recharge normally

[DarkSoul]

A sugliin, from Frostburn. If you're gonna use a horrible tactic, go big or go home.

[Uncle Pine]

Oh right, if you want to do it just once a day you can cut 1,250 gp from the 3,350 gp for the psionic tattoo, because you don't need a transducer. 2,100 gp is way more affordable at low levels.

[Darrin]

Orc Shotput: 2d6 damage, 19-20/x3 (A&EG). Cast master's touch (Spell Compendium) for proficiency or launch item (Spell Compendium) for range.

[Jon_Dahl]

You might get more mileage out of a large throwing weapon than a large not-meant-to-be-thrown weapon. That said, if you're dead-set on a weapon too big for you that does the most possible damage, then just find the large one-handed weapon that does the most damage. If it's longsword, great.

I'm not sure why you want to put this much effort into a 1/day trick, when you could make it more than 1/day; is there more to this concept?

I had to think about this long and hard.
- He should be a Diviner.
- Most likely he should be Chaotic Neutral, but one of his major goals in life should be "to become a successful adventure in a successful adventuring party", thus mitigating any fears that a DM might have. He should have a "professional self", but that is not who he really is. When he is not adventuring, he drops his professionalism and becomes Chaotic Stupid.
- I want to stay as Core as possible, but it's not mandatory.
- I want this Diviner to be very strong but he likes to carry lots of stuff with him: stuff that makes him look cool/deadly/majestic/etc. It's rare for him to have less than medium load (regardless of magical containers).
- He likes spells that do crazy and/or cool stuff. Casting a True Strike once per day to throw a giant longsword (1st level spell: 2d6+high STR modifier damage with a crit chance, no save) epitomizes the character's magic.

[Gildedragon]

There's a class that's not generally speaking "good" but might be up your alley
Master of the Unseen Hand
If you get your DM to let it advance casting all the better.

[Segev]

I had to think about this long and hard.
- He should be a Diviner.
- Most likely he should be Chaotic Neutral, but one of his major goals in life should be "to become a successful adventure in a successful adventuring party", thus mitigating any fears that a DM might have. He should have a "professional self", but that is not who he really is. When he is not adventuring, he drops his professionalism and becomes Chaotic Stupid.
- I want to stay as Core as possible, but it's not mandatory.
- I want this Diviner to be very strong but he likes to carry lots of stuff with him: stuff that makes him look cool/deadly/majestic/etc. It's rare for him to have less than medium load (regardless of magical containers).
- He likes spells that do crazy and/or cool stuff. Casting a True Strike once per day to throw a giant longsword (1st level spell: 2d6+high STR modifier damage with a crit chance, no save) epitomizes the character's magic.

Becoming "chaotic stupid" at any point sends up warning bells for me, honestly, so I know if I were DMing for this character I'd want a lot more detail on what you mean by it. But as for the rest...

A diviner with a penchant for illusions and evocations sounds up your alley. You may also want to look into Quaal's Feather Tokens as a go-to magic item. Making trees on demand is the most classic one, and it is quite useful as well as reasonably cheap. With some cooperation from your DM, you might even be able to tie one to a sling stone and use true strike to fling it precisely at distance before activating it. Possibly in mid-air, possibly on landing, but either way...

"Flashy" calls out the pyrotechnics spell to me, as well. Tasha's Irresistible Dance could be fluffed, done right, to coerce people into breaking into choreographed routines as if you were in a musical, which sounds flashy, chaotic, but not useless.

In Pathfinder, there's a spell called ant haul that triples your carrying capacity; you may like that one, too.