Bow prestige classes...

[artimus261]

So I'm making a ranger that is using Champion of the Wilds so im getting a decent chunk of free ranged feats but im trying to find a prestige class for archery that ISN'T arcane archer or the order of the bow initiate, and i'm just having some damn issues, halp

[artimus261]

Nvm just found cragtop archer!!!!! Good day

[BananaNomNom]

So I'm making a ranger that is using Champion of the Wilds so im getting a decent chunk of free ranged feats but im trying to find a prestige class for archery that ISN'T arcane archer or the order of the bow initiate, and i'm just having some damn issues, halp

May I suggest; Cragtop archer (Races of Stone), Peerless archer (Silver Marches), Deepwood sniper (Masters of the Wild).

[artimus261]

HMMMM peerless archer??? Deepwood sniper??? Must see xD gracias!!!

[sleepyphoenixx]

Deepwood Sniper is pretty neat. It gets keen arrows and a x5 crit multiplier. But that kinda works best with Hunter's Mercy, and you traded away your casting.

[artimus261]

yeah gonna be going with cragtop still, though the range increase of deepwood was really enticing xP but that farsight and 15 ranged increments is so sexy xD and horizon shot... ooof... now i just need a +5 distance composite longbow(+5 Str), mmmmmm 1d8+10 out to like... math... 4125ft xU a mile is 5280 feet... this guy can almost fire out to a mile... :U and rly i'm pretty sure i could rock ranger to 5th, jump to deepwood sniper until 15, and STILL do cragtop... oh god that's another 100ft range.... so um... a 375 increment and... 5625ft maximum... good god... so yes... much wow... target wouldn't even know what to do... though i'm not sure how id acquire a target at that distance... unless it was in the sky i guess, maybe... ugh...

[DEMON]

On top of what was already mentioned, there's also Justice of Weald and Woe (Champions of Ruin). For a Champion of the Wild Ranger, this can give you back some of Ranger's spellcasting.

For completene's sake, while not PrCs per se, these base classes contribute archery based Ranger rather nicely:
- Hit and Run Tactics (Sneak Attack) Fighter
- Scout (for Swift Hunter)
- Wizard (for Shooting Star SotAO; does not work with Champion of the Wild)
- (Cloistered) Cleric following up with Seeker of the Misty Isle

[BananaNomNom]

yeah gonna be going with cragtop still, though the range increase of deepwood was really enticing xP but that farsight and 15 ranged increments is so sexy xD and horizon shot... ooof... now i just need a +5 distance composite longbow(+5 Str), mmmmmm 1d8+10 out to like... math... 4125ft xU a mile is 5280 feet... this guy can almost fire out to a mile... :U and rly i'm pretty sure i could rock ranger to 5th, jump to deepwood sniper until 15, and STILL do cragtop... oh god that's another 100ft range.... so um... a 375 increment and... 5625ft maximum... good god... so yes... much wow... target wouldn't even know what to do... though i'm not sure how id acquire a target at that distance... unless it was in the sky i guess, maybe... ugh...

Somehow get your hands on Guided Shot the spell No range increment penalty.

[artimus261]

well horizon shot already does that for the cragtop archer, though they can only make 1 ranged attack as a full-round action for it

I just don't know how id actually SPOT something that far away

even without horizon shot I'd only be taking a -1 per increment from farsight, +5 weapon, +5 Dex, and a -15 from the increment penalty I'd still be getting a +15 on the attack <3 which i didn't run the numbers for and that's pretty sexy rly considering that would be the overall bonus out to a freakin mile xD, full attack would by +15/+10/+5/+0... i could deal

[DEMON]

well horizon shot already does that for the cragtop archer, though they can only make 1 ranged attack as a full-round action for it

I just don't know how id actually SPOT something that far away

even without horizon shot I'd only be taking a -1 per increment from farsight, +5 weapon, +5 Dex, and a -15 from the increment penalty I'd still be getting a +15 on the attack <3 which i didn't run the numbers for and that's pretty sexy rly considering that would be the overall bonus out to a freakin mile xD, full attack would by +15/+10/+5/+0... i could deal

I wonder how often will there be a chance to actually utilize this sort of range. It's not only limited by your spot check, but also by the terrain/location (i.e. it does nothing for you in a dungeon crawl).

[artimus261]

oh yeah... the composite greatbow... out to 6000ft with the cragtop and deepwood.... :U and with horizon shot and a +5 Dex and +5 weapon... 1d10+5 with 19-20/x5... and with splitting on the bow would be pretty scary... rapid shot thrown in you got ten arrows rainin down within 6 seconds from over a mile away...

[artimus261]

I wonder how often will there be a chance to actually utilize this sort of range. It's not only limited by your spot check, but also by the terrain/location (i.e. it does nothing for you in a dungeon crawl).

yeah true story, it's pretty much asking these questions: are in on the plaines? are you in a desert? are you on the ocean? No? then you probably won't see them at that distance... or if you're on a mountain i guess, and my character's gonna have like a +43 bonus at 20th without any gear, like those eagle lenses or whatever

damnit, still, getting the increment that high is still nice even at the shorter distances just to avoid those increment penalties, having a single increment out to 400ft is pretty boss, not taking a single penalty

maybe i could somehow make a scope with the spyglass, argue that doubling the size would reduce the penalty to spot for distance by another multiple above farsight(-1/30ft instead of -1/10ft)

[DarkSoul]

Something you should sit back for a minute and really think about:

How often will you actually use such an obscene range? Is you DM prepared to let you solo stuff just because you can shoot further than the rest of the group? Is the rest of the group willing to sit and do nothing while you solo stuff they won't be able to reach for another 10 rounds or more?

Having that kind of range on your shots is fun, but in my opinion it's the wrong number to be making really big, because any time you actually get to use it, it's going to frustrate and or bore every other person at the table, players and DM included. No one will be able to use any of their abilities except you. In my campaign I allowed the archer to start taking shots around 2-3 range increments, and he did succeed in driving off a group of enemies, but they didn't get any more than half xp for it because everyone turned and ran, and there was no real encounter to speak of for them to defeat.

[DEMON]

yeah true story, it's pretty much asking these questions: are in on the plaines? are you in a desert? are you on the ocean? No? then you probably won't see them at that distance... or if you're on a mountain i guess, and my character's gonna have like a +43 bonus at 20th without any gear, like those eagle lenses or whatever

damnit, still, getting the increment that high is still nice even at the shorter distances just to avoid those increment penalties, having a single increment out to 400ft is pretty boss, not taking a single penalty

maybe i could somehow make a scope with the spyglass, argue that doubling the size would reduce the penalty to spot for distance by another multiple above farsight(-1/30ft instead of -1/10ft)

Hmm. Raptoran can fly, so you can always "be on a mountain", so to speak. Or at least after reaching 10 HD.
Also, Raptoran Fighter has a nice level 1 substitution level allowing you to fly with a medium load... and gets a footbow proficiency.

[artimus261]

well the thing is with spells like whispering wind and things like it they could still be in the actual fight while my character just sets up on the overlooking ridge half a mile away, they could be there climbing over the walls of a fort while i take out the guards on the parapets and stuff like that, throw in ranged pin and disarm and stuff it could be pretty darn nifty, don't get me wrong i don't think i'll end up workin that hard for it, deepwoods not gonna be happening, but cragtop im super down for, cuz i'll admit i won't rly need that huge 6000ft increment, but it'll still help me avoid some penalties at reasonable distances

and even then a DM could make me suffer for my out combat support by having a random ass ogre walk up on me by my lonesome or something xD could just see my guy gettin awesome-blowed right off that damn ridge lol, would be just the kinda stuff he'd pull to make me regret bein so far

[artimus261]

Hmm. Raptoran can fly, so you can always "be on a mountain", so to speak. Or at least after reaching 10 HD.
Also, Raptoran Fighter has a nice level 1 substitution level allowing you to fly with a medium load... and gets a footbow proficiency.

oooooh, flying, getting the hover feat for them and using a footbow... well well well... i didn't think about that at ALL xU i tend to avoid raptorans cuz they just rub me the wrong way... don't ask me why... but THAT is a pretty crazy use for these things, just takin off and flyin upwards while the party rushes forward... oof

[DEMON]

oooooh, flying, getting the hover feat for them and using a footbow... well well well... i didn't think about that at ALL xU i tend to avoid raptorans cuz they just rub me the wrong way... don't ask me why... but THAT is a pretty crazy use for these things, just takin off and flyin upwards while the party rushes forward... oof

Dragonborn, Fey'ri... or a fair bunch of other flyers, or magical flight can do the same or similar for you, if you're really against Raptorans for some reason.

Though I still think you have very little to gain from a crazy long range. You're either not going to be able to use it at all (buldings and dungeons), not being able to see your prey, or distancing yourself so much from the rest of the party that you're either soloing an encounter, or getting soloed by the enemy.

[artimus261]

well all I intend to do as far as working at getting that distance is just getting a composite greatbow with the distance enchantment, and far shot. and even far away again the party is not chained at the leg to me, they could move on while i wait for them to be in position, pros and cons. in the end i'm rly not spending much effort for a 300ft increment, it's one feat and a single enchantment, even if it doesn't always help, which i still feel like avoiding potential -1 and -2 penalties is still somewhat handy if nothing else, it's not like I'm spending a huge amount of effort doing it. even the prestige class i'll be going into, cragtop, is only a 5 level dip, not a huge roadblock at all for what i'm lookin for and still provides good bab, doesn't drop in the skill department too much, and ends up giving me a nice way to get some DR when i need it, don't see it biting me in the butt too badly

i can rly see my character just chewin on some jerky casting occasional glances to see if they've gotten in position or again, waiting for a whispering wind message to signal him, hell even flashing a mirror in the sunlight would work as a signal at a huge freakin distance

[Psyren]

Something you should sit back for a minute and really think about:

How often will you actually use such an obscene range? Is you DM prepared to let you solo stuff just because you can shoot further than the rest of the group? Is the rest of the group willing to sit and do nothing while you solo stuff they won't be able to reach for another 10 rounds or more?

Having that kind of range on your shots is fun, but in my opinion it's the wrong number to be making really big, because any time you actually get to use it, it's going to frustrate and or bore every other person at the table, players and DM included. No one will be able to use any of their abilities except you. In my campaign I allowed the archer to start taking shots around 2-3 range increments, and he did succeed in driving off a group of enemies, but they didn't get any more than half xp for it because everyone turned and ran, and there was no real encounter to speak of for them to defeat.

Agreed 100%. This is textbook "awesome, yet impractical."

Well, being able to accurately shoot people miles away is definitely practical, just not for a team game. I could see it being useful in some scenarios though, like a siege for instance.

[Karl Aegis]

You should probably be taking Zen Archery so you can get some benefit to your attacks for cranking wisdom high enough to spot anything.