Builds that die immediately?

[idesofmarch]

Are there any rules-legal builds that die instantly upon existing, i.e., they're not actively killing themselves, they just die.

Partial credit for builds that die within a small time frame, provided the character is not taking deliberate action to end themselves.

1) They cannot deliberately fail saves, and must try to make them. This is considered 'trying' to die.
2) Try to avoid items, because, you know, I could just spawn a character owning several resetting spell traps throwing, I don't know, disintegrate on self.

[ATHATH]

Roll up a character that (via racial penalties or the like) has 1 CON. Take the Cerebrosis feat. You now have 0 CON. Die.

Bonus: If you get resurrected, you instantly die again because you still have 0 CON.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You mean something like a Wizard with 6 Con, Frail flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail), and Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick), so it has 0 hp at 1st level and automatically falls to -1 on taking any actions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#disabled0HitPoints)?

[idesofmarch]

Roll up a character that (via racial penalties or the like) has 1 CON. Take the Cerebrosis feat. You now have 0 CON. Die.

Bonus: If you get resurrected, you instantly die again because you still have 0 CON.

Hmm... I don't suppose you'd know a way to hit 1 Con on a level 1 character?

Also do you know any non-Dragon Mag substitute for Cerebrosis?


You mean something like a Wizard with 6 Con, Frail flaw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail), and Quick trait (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick), so it has 0 hp at 1st level and automatically falls to -1 on taking any actions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#disabled0HitPoints)?

Almost, but I'd like my character to properly die.

This is a pretty slick build since it doesn't require much. A good place to start with other potential ideas. Thanks!

[ATHATH]

Hmm... I don't suppose you'd know a way to hit 1 Con on a level 1 character?
Just being a standard elf who rolled a 3 for his base CON score should be enough.

[zergling.exe]

Hmm... I don't suppose you'd know a way to hit 1 Con on a level 1 character?

Roll a 3 for Con and be an elf.

[Asrrin]

Dragon #330 has the commoner flaw Corpse which automatically starts you as dead.

[SangoProduction]

Almost, but I'd like my character to properly die.

This is a pretty slick build since it doesn't require much. A good place to start with other potential ideas. Thanks!

...they do die. I mean, eventually. If the not stabilizing doesn't work, he starves because he can't reach food, because actions cause them to go unconscious.

[idesofmarch]

Just being a standard elf who rolled a 3 for his base CON score should be enough.

Right, I forgot you can roll for your initial stats... Do you know how to get down to 1 Con on a 25 point-buy? Standard elf + 8 in Con gives me 6. Pathetic flaw drops me to 4. I'm hoping there are templates enough to drop me down further. Unseelie Fey drops me down to 2... Getting there.


Dragon #330 has the commoner flaw Corpse which automatically starts you as dead.

This is actually perfect. Shame only Commoner 1s can take it. Thanks anyways!


...they do die. I mean, eventually. If the not stabilizing doesn't work, he starves because he can't reach food, because actions cause them to go unconscious.

Eating is probably an action, which means our 0 hp hero will eventually have to take an action or starve, speaking of which, I'm not sure if starvation will force our hero to die. Seems it only deals nonlethal damage, which means our character will just be unconscious forever.

So maybe our 0 hp hero just takes move actions until they starve, at which point they are unconscious, not dead.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Right, I forgot you can roll for your initial stats... Do you know how to get down to 1 Con on a 25 point-buy? Standard elf + 8 in Con gives me 6. Pathetic flaw drops me to 4. I'm hoping there are templates enough to drop me down further. Unseelie Fey drops me down to 2... Getting there.



This is actually perfect. Shame only Commoner 1s can take it. Thanks anyways!



Eating is probably an action, which means our 0 hp hero will eventually have to take an action or starve, speaking of which, I'm not sure if starvation will force our hero to die. Seems it only deals nonlethal damage, which means our character will just be unconscious forever.

So maybe our 0 hp hero just takes move actions until they starve, at which point they are unconscious, not dead.

I was going to say that Hunger/Thirst NL damage turns into Lethal once it exceeds your current HP (which our 0 HP Hero means immediately) but that doesn't seem to be the case. Apparently that is a houserule for my group for the extremely rare times it actually comes up.

[Venger]

I was going to say that Hunger/Thirst NL damage turns into Lethal once it exceeds your current HP (which our 0 HP Hero means immediately) but that doesn't seem to be the case. Apparently that is a houserule for my group for the extremely rare times it actually comes up.

It never turns to lethal. RAW, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm) you can never die from hunger or thirst.

[MHCD]

Hmm... I don't suppose you'd know a way to hit 1 Con on a level 1 character?


With point buy, even something as simple as a venerable elf with the pathetic (constitution) feat can hit 1. More exotic races or templates can give the same effect.

[MesiDoomstalker]

It never turns to lethal. RAW, (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/environment.htm) you can never die from hunger or thirst.

Yes. I acknowledged this with my aside about a houserule my group uses that I confounded for RAW.

[ben-zayb]

With point buy, even something as simple as a venerable elf with the pathetic (constitution) feat can hit 1. More exotic races or templates can give the same effect.It's supposed to die more or less after existing, and not-venerable creatures take quite some time to become venerable.

[Arbane]

Max-level Risen Martyrs or Mountebanks die immediately, I think?

[MHCD]

It's supposed to die more or less after existing, and not-venerable creatures take quite some time to become venerable.

You can create a character who starts out as venerable, just like you can create a character who is not level 1. If the thing had to die when it could have first existed, then anything post birth or post conception wouldn't work, which would include most classes, skills, and feats.

But even without age categories or rolling for stats, an unseelie fey anthropomorphic large viper with pathetic and cerebrosis could start play with 0 constitution.

[Inevitability]

Play something aquatic that isn't amphibious?

[Esprit15]

Max-level Risen Martyrs or Mountebanks die immediately, I think?

Mountebanks don't that I know of, but Risen Martyrs only die after their mission is dealt with, or when they finish their last level of risen martyr and then gain another level.

[Darrin]

This build still cracks me up: Li'l Brudder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19553609&postcount=256).

[ben-zayb]

This build still cracks me up: Li'l Brudder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19553609&postcount=256).What in the world? Must. Stop. Laughing!:smallbiggrin:

[Zaq]

This build still cracks me up: Li'l Brudder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19553609&postcount=256).


What in the world? Must. Stop. Laughing!:smallbiggrin:


Glad to see that Li'l Brudder is still bringing people joy. I'm proud of that build.

When I'm trying to explain Iron Chef to someone who doesn't really know 3.5 the way this forum does, Li'l Brudder is the build I use to describe the kinds of silly fun (and yet way less terrible than it has any right to be, despite being seriously terrible) characters that come up. Other people might not really grok 3.5 optimization, but they can understand that an exercise that results in the thought process "yeah, I think the benefits of this class are best shown off by intentionally reducing my max HP to 0 and then dealing with the consequences of that" somehow taking third prize out of a really wide field is something that's a legitimately fun use of free time.

[The Viscount]

Mountebanks don't that I know of, but Risen Martyrs only die after their mission is dealt with, or when they finish their last level of risen martyr and then gain another level.

If you attain level 20 in the mountebank base class from Dragon Compendium, you gain the half-fiend template and are transported to the Outer Planes and become an NPC serving your master. You're definitely removed from play like risen martyr, but it's not quite as bad since there's a clause about potentially escaping. Risen Martyr however simply spirits you away to the upper planes and says you're gone, assuming you wouldn't want to come back.

If you build a character at maximum age (assuming you're allowed to not roll) then you will be irretrievably dead.

[Inevitability]

If you build a character at maximum age (assuming you're allowed to not roll) then you will be irretrievably dead.

Being at max age doesn't mean you immediately die, it just sets your time of death by old age somewhere in the next year. You might have to play the character for a while.

[ross]

Right, I forgot you can roll for your initial stats...

Is this satire?

[NOhara24]

Dragon #330 has the commoner flaw Corpse which automatically starts you as dead.

This is the only flaw I'm allowing my characters to take from now on. It's perfect.

[Esprit15]

If you attain level 20 in the mountebank base class from Dragon Compendium, you gain the half-fiend template and are transported to the Outer Planes and become an NPC serving your master. You're definitely removed from play like risen martyr, but it's not quite as bad since there's a clause about potentially escaping. Risen Martyr however simply spirits you away to the upper planes and says you're gone, assuming you wouldn't want to come back.

If you build a character at maximum age (assuming you're allowed to not roll) then you will be irretrievably dead.

Ah, I was thinking of the PRC from Complete Scoundrel.

[Bonzai]

Lvl 1 monks.

[ATHATH]

This is the only flaw I'm allowing my characters to take from now on. It's perfect.
Actually, it's pretty decent. If your party members rez you soon after the campaign begins, you can get a feat without any long-term consequences (other than that level of Commoner that you had to take to get the flaw and the GP cost and level loss that you might have received from whatever rezzed you).

[Venger]

Is this satire?
no, most people point buy since it's actually fair.


Actually, it's pretty decent. If your party members rez you soon after the campaign begins, you can get a feat without any long-term consequences (other than that level of Commoner that you had to take to get the flaw and the GP cost and level loss that you might have received from whatever rezzed you).

well if you're allowed to rez after taking the corpse flaw, you might be able to retrain it somehow

[Segev]

Might we ask what the purpose of obtaining answers to the question this thread poses might be?

[Telonius]

In some campaigns, playing a Kender (regardless of class or build) achieves this.

[Vaz]

Might we ask what the purpose of obtaining answers to the question this thread poses might be?

What is the purpose of life?

https://media.giphy.com/media/14ceV8wMLIGO6Q/giphy.gif

[daremetoidareyo]

Might we ask what the purpose of obtaining answers to the question this thread poses might be?

optimizing astral dancer

[Jopustopin]

A kobold with a 3 con has 1 hit point. If you take the quick trait, it has 0 hit points. If you then undergo The Draconic Rite of Passage now has a total of -1 hit points.

At the start of play he begins to die.

[Particle_Man]

Play something aquatic that isn't amphibious?

Or play something non-aquatic, non-amphibious, and very far underwater?

[Inevitability]

Lvl 1 monks.

To be honest, if monks are good at anything it's staying alive. They have reasonable AC, good touch AC, the best saving throw advancement of any class, Evasion, a high move rate... Sure, in most other ways they're horrible, but if you want to die there's better classes.

[Calthropstu]

Lots of creatures can be instagibbed.
A first level character starting off in the plane of fire for example, starts taking 1d6 per round.
Another way is to take an addiction to an incredibly hard to find and highly addictive substance with a low con. You start taking con damage and die.

[RedMage125]

Dragon #330 has the commoner flaw Corpse which automatically starts you as dead.

I have that issue!

It's also an April Fool's issue...

[The_Jette]

Isn't there still a rule that the absolute minimum any stat can be is 3, and you have to have a bare minimum of 1 hp from each level? I mean, 1 hp isn't much better than 0, but it's still not a start and die situation...

[flare'90]

Isn't there still a rule that the absolute minimum any stat can be is 3, and you have to have a bare minimum of 1 hp from each level? I mean, 1 hp isn't much better than 0, but it's still not a start and die situation...

Only Int is capped (?) at minimum 3.
Flaws like Quick and Frail can bring the hp gain from levels to 0 (but not below 0 IIRC).

[The_Jette]

Only Int is capped (?) at minimum 3.
Flaws like Quick and Frail can bring the hp gain from levels to 0 (but not below 0 IIRC).

Is there a specific place that's stated? Because I've seen where it states that you get a minimum of 1 hp per level, but I've never seen anything about flaws overruling that.

[flare'90]

Is there a specific place that's stated? Because I've seen where it states that you get a minimum of 1 hp per level, but I've never seen anything about flaws overruling that.

Sure:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick

[The_Jette]

Sure:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm#frail
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick

Cool. Seems like a dumb thing to build into character creation, but since they put in ways to make a God-like character at level 1 I guess it's only fair to make a dead character at level one...

[almondsAndRain]

Cool. Seems like a dumb thing to build into character creation, but since they put in ways to make a God-like character at level 1 I guess it's only fair to make a dead character at level one...

To be fair, it's not like they did either of those on purpose.

[Sagetim]

Isn't there still a rule that the absolute minimum any stat can be is 3, and you have to have a bare minimum of 1 hp from each level? I mean, 1 hp isn't much better than 0, but it's still not a start and die situation...

As I recall, your stats are raised to 3 if less than 3 at character creation. I assume there's also a rule that forces you to have at least 1 hp for level 1, but after that I think there are exceptions such that you could be a level 20 whatever and have 1 hp. Wizard, having a d4, would be the easiest to do this with.

I don't know about starting dead, but a wizard (or sorcerer, psion, wilder, etc) starting with 4 con would do the trick pretty well. 1 hp at level 1 makes it very easy to die. Couple that with less than 10 dexterity, and less than 10 strength, with as many points into Int and Wisdom, but not Charisma, and you have a wizard who is going to wind up talking himself into getting stabbed and not be capable of getting out of the way, wrestling someone off of himself, or surviving the stabbing.

Bonus points if you go elan for the -2 charisma penalty, so that your character is all the more likely to put his foot in his mouth. I'm sure there's flaws for being dumber at talking. Take them, and insist on being the party face. It won't take long for Someone to kill you.

[zergling.exe]

As I recall, your stats are raised to 3 if less than 3 at character creation. I assume there's also a rule that forces you to have at least 1 hp for level 1, but after that I think there are exceptions such that you could be a level 20 whatever and have 1 hp. Wizard, having a d4, would be the easiest to do this with.

Only Int is auto-set to 3 if less:
If these changes put your score above 18 or below 3, that’s okay, except in the case of Intelligence, which does not go below 3 for characters. (If your half-orc character would have an adjusted Intelligence of 1 or 2, make it 3 instead.)

Minimum HP per level is +1 unless you have one of the flaws that decreases your HP gain:
Even if the character has a Constitution penalty and the roll was so low as to yield a result of 0 or fewer hit points, always add at least 1 hip point upon gaining a new level.

[Mordaedil]

no, most people point buy since it's actually fair.


The game is already stacked, this is 3rd edition. Might as well roll and have a laugh, in my opinion.

[Vaz]

The game is already stacked, this is 3rd edition. Might as well roll and have a laugh, in my opinion.

>suggests you're not able to have a laugh anyway.