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View Full Version : Roleplaying What's a Rules-lite alternative to D&D for Rping monsters?



~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 04:13 AM
When I'm done with the current Monster Game I run, (see my sig) I want to run another one with a new system. I have this feeling you're going to say White Wolf Publishing, but I'd rather not limit players to mages, vampires, werewolves, etc. D&D is a rich world especially for monsters, and it contains unparalleled flavour to draw from. And this brings me to my goal: A system that doesn't limit players' character creations but also isn't so tedious with combat or rolls that it bogs down storytelling over weeks or months the moment combat starts.

I know FATES is common on the boards, as well as Mutants & Masterminds, but they still seem TOO rules-heavy for combat and seem superior as tabletops because their combat rules are tedious.

Amber Diceless (sounds so freaking strange) (http://dgsociety.net/podcast/amber-diceless-roleplay-dgs-episode-35/)
Barbarians of Lemuria
Cosmic Patrol
Fiasco (in which bad things happen, and this could be possible, but what if I don't just want bad stuff to happen?
Inspectres
Lasers & Feelings
L5R (funny, it's really flavourful though)
One Last Job
Our Last Best Hope


What's a rules-lite system alternative that allows players to RP as monsters?

So I have two potential systems: FUDGE (but I'm not terribly convinced), and Grod's STaRS (http://tinyurl.com/n8uzeaf), but that is now unavailable :smallfrown:

Any other ideas?

Martin Greywolf
2017-04-16, 04:44 AM
If by FATES you mean FATE, I can't really think of anything else that is less rules intensive. One combat there lasts approximately 10 minutes (if the players make decision of what I want to do quickly) up to about 30. Only systems I know of that are lighter are the ones that barely have any rules at all, like Window or this one TTRPG that could be played with a napkin with stickman drawn on it. Their problem is that they completely lack mechanical depth.

Maybe look up FATE Accelerated, I wasn't a fan of it because it offered little choice when it came to combat, but it could work for RP-heavy, fight-light game. Also remember that FATE, whether Core or Accelerated, have a lot of optional rules listed (weapons and armor with shifts are the most visible), take those out and you basically have a "roll your skill against other skill" system with two sets of hitpoints.

~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 05:03 AM
If by FATES you mean FATE, I can't really think of anything else that is less rules intensive. One combat there lasts approximately 10 minutes (if the players make decision of what I want to do quickly) up to about 30.
[...]
Also remember that FATE, whether Core or Accelerated, have a lot of optional rules listed (weapons and armor with shifts are the most visible), take those out and you basically have a "roll your skill against other skill" system with two sets of hitpoints.


Hmm. Fate (based on FUDGE) still requires a back & forth where even 10 minutes of rolling can take ~2 - 6 weeks on PbP. What I'd prefer is where players can roll for their actions & then immediately determine their success or failure and post accordingly, which is where Grod's STaRS appeals. Does that make sense?

Grod_The_Giant
2017-04-16, 07:40 AM
I'm happy to provide advance copies of STaRS in exchange for feedback, so no worries there. It should do roughly what you want, though there's perhaps the occasional bit of clarification when complications come into play.

In regards to the games you listed...

Fiasco isn't an RPG. It's a collaborative storytelling exercise with a few scoring-type rules that encourage you to add in setbacks and failures.
M&M plays quite quickly by tabletop standards, but I agree that it's not the best for PbP-- not only do you have the "did I hit?" back and forth, but combats usually stretch over more rounds then in D&D, though the individual turns are faster. I remember seeing rules somewhere for "players roll all the dice," which I think basically replaced opponents' attack and Toughness rolls with you rolling Dodge/Parry and Damage. If you posted the DCs, that would speed things up nicely...
Fate is quick, but probably has TOO much back-and-forth with all the aspects.

~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 08:57 AM
I'm happy to provide advance copies of STaRS in exchange for feedback, so no worries there. It should do roughly what you want, though there's perhaps the occasional bit of clarification when complications come into play.
Thank you so much! I'll use it ~


Fate is quick, but probably has TOO much back-and-forth with all the aspects.
Exactly my understanding. It's fast on a tabletop, but not for PbP.

Knaight
2017-04-16, 09:26 AM
If you want really light I have a custom system for PbP. Are you good with GM fiat though? It's a bit heavy on GM fiat.

Eisenheim
2017-04-16, 10:44 AM
Storium costs money, but it is designed for PbP in the way you want. Players choose what resources to expend and then narrate the result based on that. Maybe give it a look.

Lord Raziere
2017-04-16, 12:41 PM
.....might I recommend freeform? I mean, yeah its technically not a system, but freeform really cuts out the tedious rolling and system stuff for actually talking over what the players all want to happen and such.

though I guess if you really need the dice rolls, you can try and find some one-roll system?

Morty
2017-04-16, 12:44 PM
I could say Dungeon World, but you'd need to go searching for third-party rules that allow for playing monsters. So it might not be worth the effort.

~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 06:13 PM
I could say Dungeon World, but you'd need to go searching for third-party rules that allow for playing monsters. So it might not be worth the effort.
Right. No monster focus, and although its modular base has spawned more than 10 systems of their own, it still bugs me that it has the burden of a D&D mindset (it's just not what I'm looking for).


.....might I recommend freeform? I mean, yeah its technically not a system, but freeform really cuts out the tedious rolling and system stuff for actually talking over what the players all want to happen and such.

though I guess if you really need the dice rolls, you can try and find some one-roll system?
I've looked and read the FFRPG boards for years and something has held me back. How do players write so much? For example, in NEXUS, how do you....get stuff done? Like what are the constraints

I guess what holds me back from a FFRPG is the entire lack of structure because I'm daunted by the observed lack of rules. It's like the Lack of a constrained Essay Prompt, for example, that gives me the hardest time. <<Write an essay about Richard III>> really frustrates me because it doesn't give focus or constraints; <<Do women have power in Richard III?>> or <<How does the supernatural influence Richard III?>> are both focusing constraints that give a huge amount of freedom in the means of their answer and arguement.


If you want really light I have a custom system for PbP. Are you good with GM fiat though? It's a bit heavy on GM fiat.
It's worth a look. I'm seriously considering a large number of systems, and Fiat is OK if there's a good sense of trust between players.

Storium costs money, but it is designed for PbP in the way you want. Players choose what resources to expend and then narrate the result based on that. Maybe give it a look.
Just went through the Tutorial, and I'm favorably inclined! Really cool, fairly free-form RP, in the style that seems to encourage good writing. Its structure consists of the following:
Narrator, who writes challenges for the Players.
The players' characters have a number of traits that are named to give them personality & guidance, but they have many that are undefined, or Wild.
Challenges require players to use or define their traits in story & in response to the challenge;
The last player to post in the story has the largest hand in the outcome, which resolves by the narrator's judge of weak or strong;
Strong resolves the plot with little danger (usually), while weak resolves the element with a cost. The last player to write in the conflict has great influence over the outcome..

What makes the game really neat is that players should, when relevant, opt to adapt their limitations to the story that they need to overcome; for example, confronted by a pack of wolves, a fearful person screams and a person who wants self-respect tries to fight but misses on a punch. These actions and choices are subplots that provide conflict where dice missing happens in D&D, and makes their eventual triumph all the more heroic (right?)

Back to Outcomes: Sometimes a player will not want to resolve a conflict by playing or defining a card, or don't have the resource. In this cast, the Narrator takes the actions made & judges the outcome; otherwise the story moves on in the new direction.

It's really well-designed, and is very much the style of what I'd like to do. Edit: It wouldn't be that tough to port the idea back here to the Playground.

FabulousFizban
2017-04-16, 06:23 PM
give the monster a 50% success rate for anything it does (if this seems too general split it into quarters - 75% success rate for easy tasks, 50% for normal, 25% for hard). then decide how many hits it can take: 3, 4, 5, whatever, & dont worry about hit points

~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 06:27 PM
give the monster a 50% success rate for anything it does (if this seems too general split it into quarters - 75% success rate for easy tasks, 50% for normal, 25% for hard). then decide how many hits it can take: 3, 4, 5, whatever, & dont worry about hit points

That makes sense, and it nearly exactly follows Grod's STaRS, which is still (in my mind) a neat balance between rules & lite

Grod_The_Giant
2017-04-16, 08:00 PM
That makes sense, and it nearly exactly follows Grod's STaRS, which is still (in my mind) a neat balance between rules & lite
Pretty much. I give it a little more definition-- character skills set the base chance of success, and monsters force either advantage or disadvantage, 5e-style. (Also, thanks! :smallredface:)

Knaight
2017-04-16, 09:32 PM
It's worth a look. I'm seriously considering a large number of systems, and Fiat is OK if there's a good sense of trust between players.

It's kind of old and in need of a rewrite, but the mechanics should still hold up (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dLz59cxeHwXyd8oq1EQ9qB3eZKK1hr54E6igXR-Rlww/edit?usp=sharing). To get it to sing with monsters I'd recommend two titles, one for the character specifically and one for the general species, where you get to use the higher of the two for stuff. Nature can probably be dropped entirely (although this is a case where it is likely to work better), and there are various complications that can be added to make it a bit more complex and that show up in some specific system implementations and not the general system I linked.

2D8HP
2017-04-16, 10:32 PM
It's kind of old and in need of a rewrite, but the mechanics should still hold up (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dLz59cxeHwXyd8oq1EQ9qB3eZKK1hr54E6igXR-Rlww/edit?usp=sharing).....


That looks good.

I'd like to play a PbP of that system.

Knaight
2017-04-16, 10:39 PM
That looks good.

I'd like to play a PbP of that system.

I've used it over IRC, and can confirm that Titled works well for some people (it was made at least partially for a player of mine who was finding Fudge a bit too rules heavy for her taste). I can also confirm that I wrote it back in highschool and thus any stylistic errors in it can be attributed to youth.

~Corvus~
2017-04-16, 11:00 PM
Aaaand in drafting a D&D model of my game for frame of reference, i accidentally posted in the recruiting section. Way to go me.

Grod, you're gonna get a lot of feedback about your 3.5 classes!

Herobizkit
2017-04-17, 04:20 AM
d02 KNOW NO LIMIT! (http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rdeese/RPG/D02/D02.htm)

This game is serious! There are ninjas and crocodiles! IF you need a bonus on your role, you can give the D02 master some of you change and buy it. It KNOW NO LIMIT!

It even comes with pre-gens. Fair warning, some might find the content quite... distasteful.

~Corvus~
2017-04-17, 06:21 AM
So...does every character sheet have yetis, white alligators, polar bears and albino deer?!? Amazing knows no limit!

Grod_The_Giant
2017-04-17, 07:21 AM
Aaaand in drafting a D&D model of my game for frame of reference, i accidentally posted in the recruiting section. Way to go me.

Grod, you're gonna get a lot of feedback about your 3.5 classes!
Heh, sounds good :p

ngilop
2017-04-17, 10:01 AM
Risus: the anything RPG (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) is not only free but it is very rules lite.


And I honestly mean free and rules lite.

Not free with 100 pages of rules instead of 200

Technaton
2017-04-17, 10:15 AM
Perhaps try Numenéra? Here, the GM doesn't even roll; a monster has a particular level and the players must roll to hit or to dodge (i.e., the monster succeeds automatically). The target roll with a D20 is thrice the level of the monster, e.g., a player hits a level 3 monster by rolling 9 or higher on a D20. Sometimes, a particular feature of a monster (or NPC) is exceptionally good, then, the most complex description of a NPC you might read is "level 4, subterfuge as level 5".

Plus, the world is very rich.

~Corvus~
2017-04-17, 02:50 PM
Risus: the anything RPG (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/risus.htm) is not only free but it is very rules lite.


And I honestly mean free and rules lite.

Not free with 100 pages of rules instead of 200

holy %&&^$ I know one of this guy's close friends. I don't know the person in question, but i'm 1 degree of separation from him. HE WAS HOLDIN OUT ON ME MAN!

It looks really simple. THis is a solid system.

Beneath
2017-04-17, 04:08 PM
I'd suggest Donjon (http://open.crngames.com/src/donjon.html), which is fairly rules-light in that it allows you to do just about anything but it does involve substantial back-and-forth (a roll is, like, both sides have to roll, then one side is the winner and states facts, then the other side narrates, then if the GM won the GM has veto power over narration that seems particularly twisted, and you're doing this every roll which works out to five posts per roll) which you've said is a deal-breaker for PbP.

Depending, if by "monsters" you mean white wolf/horror type of things, Monsterhearts might be up your alley. It runs on the same system as DW

~Corvus~
2017-04-17, 04:30 PM
I'd suggest Donjon (http://open.crngames.com/src/donjon.html), which is fairly rules-light in that it allows you to do just about anything but it does involve substantial back-and-forth (a roll is, like, both sides have to roll, then one side is the winner and states facts, then the other side narrates, then if the GM won the GM has veto power over narration that seems particularly twisted, and you're doing this every roll which works out to five posts per roll) which you've said is a deal-breaker for PbP.

Depending, if by "monsters" you mean white wolf/horror type of things, Monsterhearts might be up your alley. It runs on the same system as DW

This sounds like a heavier-rules version of Storium. I'll look it over, but I'm leaning to the idea of trusting my players to help weave complex and interesting stories.

Edit: Did a read-over of the premise and it's hilarious. It seems perfect for a style of table-top that I might want to run later, and even as you point out, not *quite* the feel for a PbP. Doesn't mean it can't be a fun, relaxed version of a TT game.

Katrina
2017-04-20, 05:05 AM
Not super familiar with it, but I watch a Youtube group called "Saving Throw" that plays Fantasy Flight's new Star Wars game. Every time they roll, they ask the GM a set of difficulty die to roll against and then toss the skill dice and the difficulty dice at the same time, effectively making everything one roll. Might be more than you're looking for on having to ask for difficulty dice and might not generalize well to monsters, but from what I"ve seen its as flexible as Fate in that aspect. Just wanted to make you aware of it. Like I said, I can't say if it would be awesome for it or not, but it sounds like it might fit a bill.

~Corvus~
2017-04-20, 05:16 AM
Not super familiar with it, but I watch a Youtube group called "Saving Throw" that plays Fantasy Flight's new Star Wars game. Every time they roll, they ask the GM a set of difficulty die to roll against and then toss the skill dice and the difficulty dice at the same time, effectively making everything one roll. Might be more than you're looking for on having to ask for difficulty dice and might not generalize well to monsters, but from what I"ve seen its as flexible as Fate in that aspect. Just wanted to make you aware of it. Like I said, I can't say if it would be awesome for it or not, but it sounds like it might fit a bill.

Actually, that's really cool! thanks! :smallsmile: