Fixing the Nasties: How to make the best of bad subclasses?

[Monolilith]

I use a heavily modified, Google Docs-bound version of the PHB, and I've gotten to thinking, lately, about how to improve a subclass without cutting it completely. For example, I have a god whose entire thing is trickery, wits, and deception - of course his clerics are likely to fall under the Trickery domain, but the Trickery domain is kind of terrible!

So how do you go about fixing flawed subclasses, among them the Berserker and 80-90% of UA? How should one go about cutting down the excess on subclasses that are TOO good, and making the most out of 'meh' subclasses?

If you have any modified versions of the blatantly broken subclasses to share, I'd LOVE to see them... provided I can use them in Teybel, of course. :smalltongue:

EDIT: If this should go in Homebrew, by God, please move it there. I beg of thee, mods.

[Gtdead]

I don't think that there is a method. You can either take ideas from other homebrews, or run the numbers and decide if you should get rid of the Berserker's exhaustion debuff or allow the trickery cleric to use the blessing on himself.

From there on, some subclasses require a certain kind of passion from the player. What is the point of playing an assassin for example. Mechanically he is really crap. He is only good at murdering guards when everyone else enjoys a pint at the local inn. A great player with passion will turn that crappy subclass into something really enjoyable and the funny part is that no one can really recreate his playstyle. Also you won't be able to control yourself and will give him a dagger+3 that doubles SA damage because he is awesome.

[Specter]

Berserker? Make their frenzy exhaustion reset after a long rest.

Trickery? Give them some bonus skills, better proficiencies (at least a rapier for chrissake), and psychic damage on the Divine Strike.

[NecroDancer]

The most difficult subclass for me is the 4-E monk. My DM allows you to play it without the sage advice ruling so that's slightly better but it's still a serious drain of ki points.

The trickery cleric just needs a few proficencies and a better divine strike.

The frenzy barbarian seems ok from what I've seen in my group.

[mephnick]

What is the point of playing an assassin for example. Mechanically he is really crap.

Actually it's the best rogue subclass because no one bothers to read the surprise rules and gives assassins free rounds with autocrits every combat. I can't believe how often I have to explain surprise to people.

[Potato_Priest]

What I do (at least for druid and barbarian) is I chop out the single best* subclass (totem for barbarian, moon for druid) and insert the UA ones, as they are all pretty well balanced for those classes.

*By best I mean the one that nearly every player goes for in practice, and those that don't make a big deal out of not having. I do not wish to start an argument on the balance of moon vs land or bearbarian vs bezerker.

[Bringer]

I have houserules for a lot of classes and archtypes. Here are my houserules for trickery domain cleric.


Bonus Cantrip- You gain minor illusion

Blessing of the trickster- Can be used on self.

Invoke Duplicity- Can swap places with the duplicate as a bonus action.

Cloak of Shadows- No longer channel divinity. Can be used a number of times equal to Wisdom modifier.

Divine Strike- Psychic damage instead of poison

[mgshamster]

The most difficult subclass for me is the 4-E monk. My DM allows you to play it without the sage advice ruling so that's slightly better but it's still a serious drain of ki points.

That one is pretty easy. Just give them an extra ki point every 2-5 levels (depending on the level of power increase you're looking for).

[Talionis]

My best advice is to talk with players to let them know you are open to minor changes to some subclasses and then see what they propose. By giving them a list of subclasses you feel weak and are open to change you may peak your players interest in fun ways. It's always best when a DM and player are both comfortable with their characters abilities. The conversations can be fun.

[mephnick]

For Champion (arguably weak) I give the crit range increases at lower levels (and expand it by one at highest level) and fix Remarkable Athlete to not be dumb and give the bonus to all Str, Dex and Con checks regardless of proficiency. The class remains boring and simple but at least gets the power to back it up.

[Phoenix042]

For Champion (arguably weak) I give the crit range increases at lower levels (and expand it by one at highest level) and fix Remarkable Athlete to not be dumb and give the bonus to all Str, Dex and Con checks regardless of proficiency. The class remains boring and simple but at least gets the power to back it up.

The remarkable athlete change seems like a good one. I've considered that before, and it really does seem like the best approach.

As for making the champion keep up in terms of usefulness and power with the battlemaster or EK, the problem is actually a really hard one to solve.

Simply buffing damage is all well and good, but both the BM and EK get versatility and extra effects tied to their features, which scale up in satisfying ways.

And the whole design goal was obviously simplicity for the player.

[MrStabby]

Maybe not the answer you want, but I would just take it step by step and factor in the campaign. For example trickery cleric is very powerful unless you come up against poison immune enemies.

Trickery clerics have great spells so the class power may be determined by how susceptible to those spells the campaign world is.

Generally if someone has a character concept the first thing I bend for them is the spell list and then casting stat (to allow viable multicast). For example I might swap healing spells for additional illusions or enchantment spells.

[DivisibleByZero]

Trickery Domain may not have the best abilities, they aren't bad, but they aren't the best.
But it does indeed have what is far and away the best spell list, by a long shot, and that more than makes up for it. Which means, to my mind, Trickery is just fine.