Too tough an encounter?

[Chester]

Hello.

It's my turn to DM again. This time around, the 12th level party is approaching a boss fight with one old nemesis and two enemies from whom they fled last time:

Juvenile Green Dragon Wizard 6 (defeated him a while ago, but he escaped, and he's back for vengeance.)
Inspired Inquisitor
Beholder

I wonder if fighting all three at once is a guaranteed TPK.

So, I was thinking of splitting up the battle; they encounter one of the foes first, then the remaining pair shortly thereafter.

I was thinking that they hit the dragon first, then meet the Inquisitor and Beholder.

Or some other combination.

One at a time is lame.

Thoughts?

[flappeercraft]

To me assuming standard optimization (playground standards) and a solid 4 man party it seems it could be a slightly hard fight but should be fine if all 3 come at once. I would wait for more answers as last time I made a combat based dungeon crawl for an optimized group 2 people died, 1 session to take the easiest room, one of the players needed a celerity+plane shift to not die and the damage immune character got dropped to 1 HP (and he is an undead) so I'm not exactly the most reliable source for this.

[Chester]

To me assuming standard optimization (playground standards) and a solid 4 man party it seems it could be a slightly hard fight but should be fine if all 3 come at once. I would wait for more answers as last time I made a combat based dungeon crawl for an optimized group 2 people died, 1 session to take the easiest room, one of the players needed a celerity+plane shift to not die and the damage immune character got dropped to 1 HP (and he is an undead) so I'm not exactly the most reliable source for this.

Well, 5 man party, strong characters but not necessarily optimized.

A full attack from the dragon can easily demolish a character, but he'd have to land to do that.....

[MuyMalo]

What's the character make up? Some groups that would definitely be a TPK, others could mop the floor with the monsters.

[Chester]

What's the character make up? Some groups that would definitely be a TPK, others could mop the floor with the monsters.

Warforged Barbarian / Fighter / Juggernaut
Human Fighter / Artificer / Occult Slayer
Elan Psion / Wizard thing
Human Monk / Cleric / Sacred Fist
Human Monk / Rogue / Master of the South Wind

[flappeercraft]

Considering you have 2 monks, a fighter and a barbarian and only 1 magic/psionics user total I think maybe you should reduce the difficulty a bit.

[Mike Miller]

Having back up plans is always good, too. Knowing you will be splitting the encounters up can lead to a variety of options, not just in which order and who is together, but if the second encounter happens at all. If the battle you choose first goes particularly poorly for the PCs, then the second encounter could be delayed for another time for whatever reason. Perhaps the remaining pair have moved on while the fight with the third occurred, or the pair believed they wouldn't be able to beat the PCs if their third companion was considered the "strongest" of the three.

On the other hand, if things go even better for the PCs than expected, you shouldn't be too worried about sending the remaining pair at the party. As for specifics, I'm not familiar enough with the Inspired Inquisitor to comment. The beholder and dragon sound like a rather powerful combination, though.

[Nettlekid]

I also don't know Inquisitor well, but the Beholder and Dragon together could be pretty lethal. They're both highly intelligent and would use tactics to whittle down the party, especially if they've encountered the party before and know what to expect. Most simply, the Beholder's antimagic cone locking down any character's magical capabilities makes them an easy target for the Dragon to engage with melee, and minimizes risk to the Dragon from other party members attacking it while landed because their magically-boosted offense will be offline. The Sacred Fist and Artificer are both relying on magic to power up melee, and the Psion/Wizard is obviously nothing without it. If positioned well the Beholder can AMF one or two party members and use most of its eye rays on the others (Disintegrate on the Warforged, Flesh to Stone or Finger of Death on the Psion and Monks, Charm or Sleep on the Artificer) while the Dragon can attack the squishiest ones being AMFed. Every 1d4 rounds the Beholder drops its AMF so the Dragon can use its breath weapon, which gives an opening for the PCs to use their spells to full effect but also means that the Beholder can use all its lethal eye rays on whichever PCs are most susceptible to them. Plus the Dragon and Beholder both fly nonmagically so if the Beholder keeps the PCs in its AMF the Dragon can just swoop around strafing with its breath and the PCs can't do a whole lot about it.

[Chester]

I suppose I can always make the terrain somewhat advantageous to the party. A cave with natural stone pillars could at least provide them cover from the beholder.

[Nettlekid]

I suppose I can always make the terrain somewhat advantageous to the party. A cave with natural stone pillars could at least provide them cover from the beholder.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Putting pillars that block LoE of the Beholder's AMF make little havens where casters can cast. But you'd be hard-pressed to justify why the hyper-intelligent Aberration with at-will Disintegrate hasn't destroyed anything in the terrain that's disadvantageous to it.

[Agahnim]

Because they're exquisitely carved and the dragon loves art? (Assuming the pillars are in the dragon's lair)

[Jay R]

That's actually a pretty good idea. Putting pillars that block LoE of the Beholder's AMF make little havens where casters can cast. But you'd be hard-pressed to justify why the hyper-intelligent Aberration with at-will Disintegrate hasn't destroyed anything in the terrain that's disadvantageous to it.

Make the pillars load-bearing.