Stats for high priests who are not Clerics?

[Unoriginal]

The PHB makes clear than most priests, even the ones important in their church, are not Clerics, as Clerics are fairly rare individuals chosen by their god.

But how would you stat a NPC that is a high priest, a cardinal, or other important members of a religion that are not Clerics?


So far I'm thinking that using the Noble statblock from the MM with a high WIS would make sense.

[Armored Walrus]

Increase Wis and decrease Str and Con imo. They don't live a rough life, so aren't that tough.

Edit: Or, hell, don't even increase Wis. Depending on how you want to run your church. It's not always the fittest for the job or the most pious that get promoted through the church hierarchy, but the most ambitious. If anything, they should have good Cha.

[Dr. Cliché]

Are you aware that there's a Priest NPC statblock in the back of the Monster Manual?

I'd probably use that as a start, possibly upping hp, Wisdom and/or spells (depending on whether I want higher-ranking priests to also be stronger casters). That said, I'd probably at least up their charisma (or maybe intellect) - since there was a reason they ended up as high priest or cardinal, and it probably wasn't strength. :smallwink:

[mgshamster]

I'd treat them as any other person in an organization. Some will have high Wis, hit int, or high cha depending on their rise in ranks and how they achieved that rank.

Some priests will serve as counselors and guides and have a higher Wis. Some priests will have extensive knowledge of the church and have a higher int. Some priests are evangelists and can sway the crowds and have a high charisma.

From there, their physical stats will be based on how much they value food vs fitness, just like everyone else. :)

Just decide on their personality and assign stats as appropriate.

If you're just looking for a quick build for an unimportant priest NPC for the game, just use the priest stats in the MM, with or without spells. Or perhaps the cultist, or the cult fanatic, or even the noble.

[Unoriginal]

Are you aware that there's a Priest NPC statblock in the back of the Monster Manual?

This Priest's a spellcaster, tough.



I'd treat them as any other person in an organization. Some will have high Wis, hit int, or high cha depending on their rise in ranks and how they achieved that rank.

Some priests will serve as counselors and guides and have a higher Wis. Some priests will have extensive knowledge of the church and have a higher int. Some priests are evangelists and can sway the crowds and have a high charisma.

From there, their physical stats will be based on how much they value food vs fitness, just like everyone else. :)

Just decide on their personality and assign stats as appropriate.

If you're just looking for a quick build for an unimportant priest NPC for the game, just use the priest stats in the MM, with or without spells. Or perhaps the cultist, or the cult fanatic, or even the noble.

Fair enough.


They don't live a rough life, so aren't that tough.

Well, I don't know. The Cleric's capacities, independently from their god-given powers, seems to indicate that the clergy in your average DnD setting tends to make its members go through some combat training. Enough to have them be able to use a decent selection of weapons and armor, at least.

Though I suppose it does depends a lot.

I'd say that given how dangerous living in a DnD world tend to be, and given the kind of loot that bandits, raiders, thieves, robbers or the like can expect to find in a temple, priests have to help defend their churches more than your average commoner has to defend themselves.

[DivisibleByZero]

You don't need to stat it out at all.
The High Priest of <insert deity here> might be nothing more than the CEO of the church. Someone who runs the operation, but has no divine connection at all. He has only belief, and a desire to do the church's work. Just like priests in the real world.
Their power comes from their position, not from magic. Think of the Pope.
That's what the PHB meant when it said they they aren't necessarily Clerics.

[Asmotherion]

That's an optional approach to npcs in order not to use countless hours of creating them. You could use the commoner, priest or noble MM entry (not sure those are their actual names as I just woke up) for a fast creation, and If you actually want them as powerfull opponents, you can alter the mage or Archmage entry in the MM to make Wisdom their highest stat and re-choose their prepared spells from the Cleric spell list. Or, you can always make a Cleric leveled NPC, it doesn't break the game, it just makes it more time-consuming for you :p

[Unoriginal]

You don't need to stat it out at all.
The High Priest of <insert deity here> might be nothing more than the CEO of the church. Someone who runs the operation, but has no divine connection at all. He has only belief, and a desire to do the church's work. Just like priests in the real world.
Their power comes from their position, not from magic. Think of the Pope.
That's what the PHB meant when it said they they aren't necessarily Clerics.

I know that, yes, but stats tend to be useful if a NPC is involved in a potentially combat interaction alongside the PCs.


If you actually want them as powerfull opponents, you can alter the mage or Archmage entry in the MM to make Wisdom their highest stat and re-choose their prepared spells from the Cleric spell list. Or, you can always make a Cleric leveled NPC, it doesn't break the game, it just makes it more time-consuming for you :p

Something tells me it kinda goes a tiny little bit against the "high priests who are not Clerics" premise of the thread.




It opens an interesting logical/narrative question, though. A DnD deity would normally be able to influence their church enough to decide who's the most suited to be the leader, so would the leader nearly always be someone the god approves of and think to be the best to be in charge, even if the god does not consider them quite worthy enough to be granted powers?

[DivisibleByZero]

I know that, yes, but stats tend to be useful if a NPC is involved in a potentially combat interaction alongside the PCs.

Commoner, probably with a +1 or +2 to mental modifiers, and immediately dead if involved in combat without a miracle. :smallsmile:
Anywhere between that and an MM Priest, as to taste.

[Asmotherion]

I know that, yes, but stats tend to be useful if a NPC is involved in a potentially combat interaction alongside the PCs.



Something tells me it kinda goes a tiny little bit against the "high priests who are not Clerics" premise of the thread.




It opens an interesting logical/narrative question, though. A DnD deity would normally be able to influence their church enough to decide who's the most suited to be the leader, so would the leader nearly always be someone the god approves of and think to be the best to be in charge, even if the god does not consider them quite worthy enough to be granted powers?

Well, the best approach to this would be to see their Effectiveness as leaders. So, basically, best leader is not necesserally best warior aproach I guess?

Or, the Deity might be an @-hole and like to watch his subjects lead by an incompetant fool for various reasons, such as teach them to be independant, or like, a trickster god who wants to give more reasons to his followers to betray their own high-priest, in order to give them a lesson about trickery. For all I know, Gods are vicious and petty little pranksters like that, especially when they're bored.

[Dr. Cliché]

This Priest's a spellcaster, tough.

I thought you just didn't want them to be a Cleric? :smallconfused:

[DivisibleByZero]

I thought you just didn't want them to be a Cleric? :smallconfused:

Priest is the MM stat block for a Cleric, like the Mage/Archmage are MM stat blocks for a wizard.