Druid Wild Shape Questions

[Dr. Cliché]

I have some questions regarding the Druid's Wild Shape ability, involving a mix of unusual scenarios and general pedantry:

1) When a Druid uses Wild Shape, does the animal's body type match their own? e.g. Would a fat druid turn into an equally fat cheetah? If not, what determines the body type of the animal, or can the Druid just choose?

2) If a Druid has scars, would they appear on his animal form?

3) If a Druid is missing a limb and Wild Shapes, will his animal form be missing the corresponding limb?

3.5) If a Druid loses a limb whilst Wild Shaped, would he be missing the corresponding limb when he turns back?

3.75) What would happen to the lost limb? Would it turn into a human one immediately or when the Druid reverted? Would it stay as an animal limb? Would it just disappear?

4) If a Druid Wild Shapes whilst pregnant, what happens to the baby?

5) If a Druid turns into a large animal and eats more than their human stomach could contain, what happens when they turn back?

6) If a Druid is Wild Shaped into a small animal and is then eaten by a larger one (but which isn't large enough to contain their human form), what happens when the Druid turns back?

6.5) If the Druid is eaten by something just large enough to contain their human form, can they Wild Shape into something larger? If so, what is the result?

7) If the Druid is transformed into a small animal and is then put into a cage not large enough to contain his human form, what happens when he turns back?

8) If a Druid is currently poisoned or diseased and Wild Shapes, would the animal he turns into also be afflicted by that poison/disease?

8.5) If a Druid is poisoned or afflicted with a disease whilst Wild Shaped, would he still be poisoned/diseased when he turned back?

9) Same question as 8/8.5 but for magical curses, buffs, debuffs and similar effects - would these be retained when a Druid Wild Shapes or reverts from animal to human form?

10) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from a summoned animal?

10.5) Could a Druid learn a new animal from via another Druid Wild Shaping into it?

10.75) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from an illusion of such?

[Beelzebubba]

Fat moon druid turning into chubby bear. :smallbiggrin:

That made my night!

[PeteNutButter]

I have some questions regarding the Druid's Wild Shape ability, involving a mix of unusual scenarios and general pedantry:

1) When a Druid uses Wild Shape, does the animal's body type match their own? e.g. Would a fat druid turn into an equally fat cheetah? If not, what determines the body type of the animal, or can the Druid just choose?

2) If a Druid has scars, would they appear on his animal form?

3) If a Druid is missing a limb and Wild Shapes, will his animal form be missing the corresponding limb?

3.5) If a Druid loses a limb whilst Wild Shaped, would he be missing the corresponding limb when he turns back?

3.75) What would happen to the lost limb? Would it turn into a human one immediately or when the Druid reverted? Would it stay as an animal limb? Would it just disappear?

4) If a Druid Wild Shapes whilst pregnant, what happens to the baby?

5) If a Druid turns into a large animal and eats more than their human stomach could contain, what happens when they turn back?

6) If a Druid is Wild Shaped into a small animal and is then eaten by a larger one (but which isn't large enough to contain their human form), what happens when the Druid turns back?

6.5) If the Druid is eaten by something just large enough to contain their human form, can they Wild Shape into something larger? If so, what is the result?

7) If the Druid is transformed into a small animal and is then put into a cage not large enough to contain his human form, what happens when he turns back?

8) If a Druid is currently poisoned or diseased and Wild Shapes, would the animal he turns into also be afflicted by that poison/disease?

8.5) If a Druid is poisoned or afflicted with a disease whilst Wild Shaped, would he still be poisoned/diseased when he turned back?

9) Same question as 8/8.5 but for magical curses, buffs, debuffs and similar effects - would these be retained when a Druid Wild Shapes or reverts from animal to human form?

10) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from a summoned animal?

10.5) Could a Druid learn a new animal from via another Druid Wild Shaping into it?

10.75) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from an illusion of such?

1-7: Ask your DM.

8-9: Wild shape has no curative effects, and is not a cure all. You maintain buffs and debuffs.

10: Ask your DM. I don't see why not.

[Dr. Cliché]

Fat moon druid turning into chubby bear. :smallbiggrin:

That made my night!

Glad I wasn't the only one who liked that idea.

[Blacky the Blackball]

The answer to all of these is "ask your DM".

I'll answer them as if you were playing a druid in my game...


1) When a Druid uses Wild Shape, does the animal's body type match their own? e.g. Would a fat druid turn into an equally fat cheetah? If not, what determines the body type of the animal, or can the Druid just choose?

2) If a Druid has scars, would they appear on his animal form?

The animal form will - to the extent that the animal in question can - resemble the druid. Any distinctive features (including scars) that the druid has will be present on the animal. Obviously that has to be treated subjectively. There's no hard and fast rule that can cover every type of distinctive feature and every type of animal. But a fat druid would likely become a fat animal.


3) If a Druid is missing a limb and Wild Shapes, will his animal form be missing the corresponding limb?

3.5) If a Druid loses a limb whilst Wild Shaped, would he be missing the corresponding limb when he turns back?

3.75) What would happen to the lost limb? Would it turn into a human one immediately or when the Druid reverted? Would it stay as an animal limb? Would it just disappear?

Missing limbs (which in D&D are more of a plot device than anything else, since limbs aren't normally lost during combat) would count as distinctive features. A one-armed druid would turn into a three-legged bear, and vice versa. Mythology surrounding skin-changers has a strong trope of an injury done to the animal being recognisable on the person after they've changed back.


4) If a Druid Wild Shapes whilst pregnant, what happens to the baby?

Good question. I'd say that the druid is still pregnant. A pregnant elf turning into a wolf becomes a pregnant wolf.


5) If a Druid turns into a large animal and eats more than their human stomach could contain, what happens when they turn back?

Nothing special, in the same way that the druid could eat a large meal before turning into a small animal with no special consequences.


6) If a Druid is Wild Shaped into a small animal and is then eaten by a larger one (but which isn't large enough to contain their human form), what happens when the Druid turns back?

6.5) If the Druid is eaten by something just large enough to contain their human form, can they Wild Shape into something larger? If so, what is the result?

7) If the Druid is transformed into a small animal and is then put into a cage not large enough to contain his human form, what happens when he turns back?

These are all variations on the "what happens if you try to become something too big to fit in the area where you are?" question. This is something that's come up in my campaign (a druid was eavesdropping as a spider and got caught and put in a jar).

My ruling was that you can't voluntarily change a thing into something larger than will fit in the space it's in, whether trying to polymorph someone else or wildshape yourself or any other form of transmutation. If something would involuntarily change, for example by a spell or wild shape running out of duration, the duration is artificially extended until there is space to fit the thing once more.

Based on that, the answers are:

6) The druid can't turn back until they escape - if they can't escape they'll die and be digested remaining in animal form.
6.5) The druid can't turn into something larger than the space they're in.
7) The druid can't turn back until released from the cage, even if this means the wild shape must last longer than normal.


8) If a Druid is currently poisoned or diseased and Wild Shapes, would the animal he turns into also be afflicted by that poison/disease?

8.5) If a Druid is poisoned or afflicted with a disease whilst Wild Shaped, would he still be poisoned/diseased when he turned back?

9) Same question as 8/8.5 but for magical curses, buffs, debuffs and similar effects - would these be retained when a Druid Wild Shapes or reverts from animal to human form?

That's a simple "Yes" in all three cases.


10) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from a summoned animal?

10.5) Could a Druid learn a new animal from via another Druid Wild Shaping into it?

10.75) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from an illusion of such?

Druids can only learn new animal forms form actual animals, not from facsimiles or images. Therefore:

10) No, the summoned creatures aren't actually animals - they're fey spirits that merely take animal form.
10.5) No, the other druid isn't actually an animal - they're a druid that has merely taken an animal form.
10.17) No, the illusion isn't actually an animal.

[Dr. Cliché]

I know that most of these come down to 'ask your DM', but I was interested in seeing how people would rule on them. So thanks for those replies, Blackball.

The only thing I would question is this:



Druids can only learn new animal forms form actual animals, not from facsimiles or images. Therefore:

10) No, the summoned creatures aren't actually animals - they're fey spirits that merely take animal form.
10.5) No, the other druid isn't actually an animal - they're a druid that has merely taken an animal form.
10.17) No, the illusion isn't actually an animal.

Would this give the Druid a power to detect illusions of animals as false? Likewise, would he automatically know that an animal was summoned or that it was a Wild Shaped Druid?

[hymer]

general pedantry
I applaud your pedantry! And in honour of it, I shall answer with my likely rulings.


1) When a Druid uses Wild Shape, does the animal's body type match their own? e.g. Would a fat druid turn into an equally fat cheetah? If not, what determines the body type of the animal, or can the Druid just choose?
No. The druid gets a fairly generic version of the animal, as indicated by the fixed stats. I'd be okay with some leeway in choosing details, like the colour of a cat (as long as they're natural).


2) If a Druid has scars, would they appear on his animal form?
No. The hp/damage of the druid is pretty sharply separated from that of the wild shape. But if the player wants a scar to carry over, I see no reason not to allow it, and I'd be likely to have this happen with a villain.


3) If a Druid is missing a limb and Wild Shapes, will his animal form be missing the corresponding limb?
No. Consider that not every humanoid limb has a corresponding limb even on all vertebrates.


3.5) If a Druid loses a limb whilst Wild Shaped, would he be missing the corresponding limb when he turns back?
No. The druid can get the shape effectively killed and escape it with barely a scrape. Though this is pretty theoretical; I could likely count on one hand the times a PC lost a limb with me DMing, and I've played MERP.


3.75) What would happen to the lost limb? Would it turn into a human one immediately or when the Druid reverted? Would it stay as an animal limb? Would it just disappear?
It would disappear. If already eaten, i wouldn't take the nourishment away, though.


4) If a Druid Wild Shapes whilst pregnant, what happens to the baby?
I'd rule that this would present no problem whatsoever. Nobody knows where/what the foetus is in the meantime, just like we don't know where/what the ova are. I'd also be happy to let a female druid take the shape of a male animal with no effects after returning.


5) If a Druid turns into a large animal and eats more than their human stomach could contain, what happens when they turn back?
Nothing bad. If he swallowed an orc while in the shape of, say, a giant toad, and the orc was still alive, the orc would be deposited on the ground next to the druid.


6) If a Druid is Wild Shaped into a small animal and is then eaten by a larger one (but which isn't large enough to contain their human form), what happens when the Druid turns back?
I'd rule that based on specific instances. In general, I'd have the druid exit, and possibly some symbolic damage dealt to them both in the process.


6.5) If the Druid is eaten by something just large enough to contain their human form, can they Wild Shape into something larger? If so, what is the result?
Yes. They won't enjoy it much (see 6.5), though it's probably better than being digested.


7) If the Druid is transformed into a small animal and is then put into a cage not large enough to contain his human form, what happens when he turns back?
Depends on how strong the cage is. The druid could suffocate, or the cage could burst. A little damage may be in order.


8) If a Druid is currently poisoned or diseased and Wild Shapes, would the animal he turns into also be afflicted by that poison/disease?
Yes. Might be some wriggle room with elemental shapes.


8.5) If a Druid is poisoned or afflicted with a disease whilst Wild Shaped, would he still be poisoned/diseased when he turned back?
Unless it's a disease specifically targeting elementals, yes. Elementals don't care much about poison, so no worries there.


9) Same question as 8/8.5 but for magical curses, buffs, debuffs and similar effects - would these be retained when a Druid Wild Shapes or reverts from animal to human form?
They will generally stick, with some specific exceptions.


10) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from a summoned animal?
Yes. Wouldn't need to with me DMing, as long as you stick to terrestrial or flying animals that exist freely in the wild.


10.5) Could a Druid learn a new animal from via another Druid Wild Shaping into it?
Absolutely.


10.75) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from an illusion of such?
No, even if it was a really good illusion. The bond isn't sensory so much as mystical.

[Blacky the Blackball]

Would this give the Druid a power to detect illusions of animals as false? Likewise, would he automatically know that an animal was summoned or that it was a Wild Shaped Druid?

Not instantly on seeing them (although in the case of illusions they'd get the same check as everyone else if they spent an action examining the illusion, of course).

But later on when they try to wild shape into what they saw they'll realise they don't quite have all the "information" (for want of a better world) that they need to make the transformation work.

[Tetrasodium]

Not instantly on seeing them (although in the case of illusions they'd get the same check as everyone else if they spent an action examining the illusion, of course).

But later on when they try to wild shape into what they saw they'll realise they don't quite have all the "information" (for want of a better world) that they need to make the transformation work.


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Even though Lorem Ipsum looks like actual content at a glance, a reader fluent in latin will immediately recognize it as gibberish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum). What you are suggesting is the equivalent of thinking it looks like good research material & only realizing that you were reading gibberish when you sit down to write a paper on it.

As others have said though, pretty much all of it amounts to "ask your GM" including things like "would a fat druid be a fat $critter" because it has no real mechanical impact on if a bear has a few extra pounds or not.

[Vogonjeltz]

Would this give the Druid a power to detect illusions of animals as false? Likewise, would he automatically know that an animal was summoned or that it was a Wild Shaped Druid?

Let's put it this way. What if the Druid tried to Wildshape into a Beholder upon seeing it?

Unless the Druid already knew what the observered creature was (in which case they could turn into one already or not) they'd just have to assume whatever they saw wasn't an animal.

i.e. They see a Silent Image of a Panther. They don't know what a Panther is, they've never seen one before.

Either they can now turn into a Panther or they can't. If they can't, they have to assume a Panther isn't a beast. If they can, they have to assume it is.

So I see no reason for them to assume something is an Illusion if they can't turn into it, it might just not be a Beast. Either way, the character can't know the difference. Only we the players and DM would know, having already known in advance that a Panther is a beast.

As for the previous question list:


I have some questions regarding the Druid's Wild Shape ability, involving a mix of unusual scenarios and general pedantry:

1) When a Druid uses Wild Shape, does the animal's body type match their own? e.g. Would a fat druid turn into an equally fat cheetah? If not, what determines the body type of the animal, or can the Druid just choose?

2) If a Druid has scars, would they appear on his animal form?

3) If a Druid is missing a limb and Wild Shapes, will his animal form be missing the corresponding limb?

3.5) If a Druid loses a limb whilst Wild Shaped, would he be missing the corresponding limb when he turns back?

3.75) What would happen to the lost limb? Would it turn into a human one immediately or when the Druid reverted? Would it stay as an animal limb? Would it just disappear?

4) If a Druid Wild Shapes whilst pregnant, what happens to the baby?

5) If a Druid turns into a large animal and eats more than their human stomach could contain, what happens when they turn back?

6) If a Druid is Wild Shaped into a small animal and is then eaten by a larger one (but which isn't large enough to contain their human form), what happens when the Druid turns back?

6.5) If the Druid is eaten by something just large enough to contain their human form, can they Wild Shape into something larger? If so, what is the result?

7) If the Druid is transformed into a small animal and is then put into a cage not large enough to contain his human form, what happens when he turns back?

8) If a Druid is currently poisoned or diseased and Wild Shapes, would the animal he turns into also be afflicted by that poison/disease?

8.5) If a Druid is poisoned or afflicted with a disease whilst Wild Shaped, would he still be poisoned/diseased when he turned back?

9) Same question as 8/8.5 but for magical curses, buffs, debuffs and similar effects - would these be retained when a Druid Wild Shapes or reverts from animal to human form?

10) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from a summoned animal?

10.5) Could a Druid learn a new animal from via another Druid Wild Shaping into it?

10.75) Could a Druid learn a new animal form from an illusion of such?

I could see it going either way on 1-3.75 depending on how the DM flavors the world.

i.e. Either the assumed forms explicitly resemble the Druid or they're total magic and they're fully functional, even if the Druid has themselves lost a limb/eye/whatever.

3.5 and 3.75 in particular are tricky unless we assume (as the rules sort of seem to) that the two are independent of each other. i.e. Druid turns into an Octopus, or anything with more limbs than they have in their natural form, and loses one. What'd they just lose? Without a direct carry-over, it'd become annoying to adjudicate exactly what just happened. So, for my money, I'd just stick with them being unrelated. Thus, the Raven has both wings even if the Druid is missing an arm. The Tiger isn't blind just because the Druid lost both eyes, etcetera.

4...good question. I could again see some options. a) Unknown. And Nobody wants to find out. Pregnant Druids aren't insane enough to risk any kind of complication that might arise from shapeshifting while Pregnant. If tried? either b, c, or d results. b) Nothing bad. Whatever is shifted into is also pregnant. c) Shifting can't be done in these circumstances, the magic fails. d) As b, shifting works, but something bad happens. (pregnancy terminates or is absorbed, if this somehow occurred during birthing it's a beast, not a sapient creature).

For my own part, I'd avoid letting 4 become an issue in my games. Adventurers who start a family stop being adventurers.

5) Contents that exceed remaining space are expelled as if they were items into the closest available space.

6, 6.5, 7) See 5.

8, 8.5, 9) Yes.

10, 10.5, 10.75) Yes. (10.75 is contingent on the illusion being able to act/move normally, if it's a still image...questionable).

[Blacky the Blackball]

Even though Lorem Ipsum looks like actual content at a glance, a reader fluent in latin will immediately recognize it as gibberish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum). What you are suggesting is the equivalent of thinking it looks like good research material & only realizing that you were reading gibberish when you sit down to write a paper on it.

Nope. It isn't the equivalent of that at all. That's a terrible analogy.

I said that it would appear to be the real thing, but that later on reflection you'd realise you didn't have all the information needed to replicate it.

Your analogy is of something that a knowledgeable person would instantly recognise as being fake. That's not the same as what I said, and you simply saying that it's "the equivalent of" what I said doesn't make it so.

If you want an actual analogy involving Latin, it would be something along the lines of...

You find a set of instructions on how to build a complex clockwork machine that are written in Latin. Because you're fluent in Latin you know that they appear to be real instructions and there don't seem to be any obvious mistakes. It's only when you later gather the parts and try to follow the instructions that you realise there's a subtle flaw in them, and the machine doesn't work because the cogs won't mesh properly. Without actually trying to build the machine you'd never have spotted that flaw. Someone who doesn't speak Latin fluently would probably guess that they're instructions for something because of the way they're structured, but wouldn't have been able to understand enough to try to follow them and therefore wouldn't get far enough to spot the flaw.

[monkey3]

Obviously I can't argue with "ask your DM". But to me the answer is more black/white, and I disagree with some if those given.
When you wildshape, you throw out your [physical] statblock, and get a generic statblock of the animal you turn into.

A strong druid turns in to an average bear. So why should a fat druid turn into a fat bear?

A 4-armed, 2-legged (there was some race I remember) druid would turn into an average 4-limbed dog. So why should missing limbs also be missing in the animal?

As far as I am concerned, the baby (and any undigested food you have eaten) meld into the body of the new form, and reappear when you turn back.

[dejarnjc]

snip

I find myself agreeing with basically all of this.