Best Build for A Dhampir Cleric?

[Palanan]

I’ve never done much with the dhampir before, but now I have a use for a dhampir cleric and I need some build advice.

In particular, I’m wondering if there are ways to capitalize on the dhampir’s healing from negative energy. I assume a dhampir cleric would choose to channel negative energy pretty much by default—but are there other options which would build on this?

[legomaster00156]

Well, first of all, what alignment is the cleric, and what god does he/she worship?

[Palanan]

I’m thinking Chaotic Neutral, although not completely wedded to that.

As for the deity, haven’t settled that yet. I’m open to suggestions about deities, domains, feats, archetypes, anything along those lines. All official Paizo content allowed, and 3.5 material also considered.

.

[legomaster00156]

Well, it's hard to beat Desna as far as domain options go, and a CN Cleric can worship her. All five of Desna's domains are exceptional options, and she offers good subdomains as well. This will lock you into channeling positive energy, so I recommend picking up Life-Dominant Soul as quickly as possible, which will allow you to heal from positive energy (at half effectiveness).
Alternatively, Gorum and Cayden Cailean are also excellent options, along with a number of demon lords for a more evil-inclined cleric.

[Palanan]

Interesting, thanks--but my dhampir cleric would much rather heal 100% with negative energy than 50% with the other stuff.

Does that rule out Desna completely? If so, what other options would work? Is Calistria at all feasible?

[legomaster00156]

Calistria's domains aren't as good as the ones I mentioned before, and obviously her favored weapon is kind of garbage unless built around, but any god is potentially feasible. As you would both be Neutral, you can indeed channel negative energy if you choose her. Gorum is likewise a CN deity, with (IMO) better domains and weapon.

[Palanan]

Calistria has Knowledge and Trickery, which are perfect for my concept. Disguise Self is also ideal for this character.

Assuming that my dhampir cleric will be channeling negative energy, what else can he do with this? I’m looking for suggestions on how he can build on the negative-energy aspect, as well as other options a dhampir would be well-suited for.

[legomaster00156]

Well, Channel Smite is a pretty good feat when you can channel negative energy, as the only creatures it won't affect are undead and constructs.

[Palanan]

Channel Smite looks like a solid option, thanks. (For some reason I want to type this as “Chanel Smite,” which would be something very different.)

Any other suggestions for how to play off the dhampir’s affinity for negative energy?

[Psyren]

Channel Smite looks like a solid option, thanks. (For some reason I want to type this as “Chanel Smite,” which would be something very different.)

As would "Chanel Samite."

Anyhoo, there's other useful channeling feats like Selective Channel and Quick Channel. Consider also the variant channeling options from UM based on your deity.

[The_Jette]

Channel Smite looks like a solid option, thanks. (For some reason I want to type this as “Chanel Smite,” which would be something very different.)

Any other suggestions for how to play off the dhampir’s affinity for negative energy?

Vortain is a decent deity if you want to play a sneaky guy. Take the Travel and Trickery Domains, and use the abilities to be a great scout with the power of a God backing you up if you get caught. The favored weapon is the Flail, so not bad. And, you'll have to channel negative energy, since your God is evil. I'd suggest Craft (Alchemy) too. That being said, you'll constantly be toeing the line of evil. If that's what you want, awesome. If not, Vortain probably isn't the best choice for you.

[legomaster00156]

Vortain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/gods-3rd-party-publishers/gods-of-porphyra-pdg/vortain/) comes with the disclaimer that it is a 3rd-party deity. Your setting, in all likelihood, does not have it.

[Particle_Man]

If you don't mind an evil god, Lamashtu (core) gives you the madness domain, which is hella fun. Trickery isn't too bad either.

The only downside of the dhampir cleric is that sadly the latest rulings are that you can't use channel negative energy to simultaneously nuke your enemies and heal yourself. There may be feats or prestige classes that get around that somehow.

[Florian]

The only downside of the dhampir cleric is that sadly the latest rulings are that you can't use channel negative energy to simultaneously nuke your enemies and heal yourself. There may be feats or prestige classes that get around that somehow.

It simply works just the same as with channel positive energy, you having to chose whether to heal nuke or undead nuke, but not both at the same time. No big change, the FAQ just clarified it.

@Palanan:

Best way to use a Dhampir is as a defensive measure when going up against undead, necromancers or evil clerics. The only real ways to capitalize on being healed by neg energy is bei either using an Antipaladin or Warpriest because of the ability to self-heal as a swift action.

The cleric lacks this ability until Quicken Channeling comes online, so I´d not build around this.

Either stick to channeling positive energy and push it very high, taking Versatile Channeling so you can channel both, which works fine on a Herald Caller/Angelfire Apostle reach cleric build (of Shelly).
Or you go straight for a bad touch cleric, picking domains based on what debuts they provide and channel them via a channeling weapon and make heavy use of the Channel Smite feat.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
Either stick to channeling positive energy and push it very high, taking Versatile Channeling so you can channel both, which works fine on a Herald Caller/Angelfire Apostle reach cleric build (of Shelly).

This particular dhampir will be channeling negative energy, but I’d be interested in the Herald Caller/Angelfire Apostle out of general interest, since I haven't heard of it before. What is that, exactly?

(And who is Shelly?)


Originally Posted by Florian
Or you go straight for a bad touch cleric, picking domains based on what debuts they provide and channel them via a channeling weapon and make heavy use of the Channel Smite feat.

This is closer to what I’m thinking. Can you give a little more detail on this?

(Also, “debut” means a rollout or a first-time public appearance, which doesn't seem to fit here. Did you mean “benefit”?)

[Psyren]

This particular dhampir will be channeling negative energy, but I’d be interested in the Herald Caller/Angelfire Apostle out of general interest, since I haven't heard of it before. What is that, exactly?

(And who is Shelly?)

Herald Caller (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo-cleric-archetypes/herald-caller-cleric-archetype/)
Angelfire Apostle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/paizo-cleric-archetypes/angelfire-apostle/)

I assume by "Shelly" he meant Shelyn.

[Florian]

@Palanan:

Fun with autocorrect. I was meaning the goddess Shelyn and "debuff". I can give you more details on a bad touch cleric tomorrow, soccer´s on tv in some minutes ;)

[grarrrg]

Good old Dhampir Clerics...
Short shopping list of handy items to keep around:

Amulet of Channeled Life (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-channeled-life/)
It converts any Positive Energy you take into Temp-HP instead of damage.

Pallid Crystal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/crystal-pallid/)
Both Cure and Inflict spells will heal you. But only Cure and Inflict spells.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
I can give you more details on a bad touch cleric tomorrow, soccer´s on tv in some minutes ;)

So, I hope your team won. :smalltongue:

Can you give me some of those details? I’ve heard of this cleric approach, but not sure exactly what’s involved.


Originally Posted by grarrrg
Short shopping list of handy items to keep around….

I appreciate the suggestions. Can you recommend any other first-party items, preferably on the lower end of the cost spectrum?

[Florian]

Can you give me some of those details? I’ve heard of this cleric approach, but not sure exactly what’s involved.

Bad Touch is pretty much based on debuffing a single enemy, preferably a "boss"-type to the point it´ll actually be useless, then burn negative channels for Channel Smite to finish it of.

Key elements differ based on whether it´ll going to be a low level game (then it´ll be Improved Unarmed Strike and Domain Strike) or mid to high level with regular WBL (then it´ll be either a high crit or high reach conductive weapon), capping with Cursed Critical. A "full build" combines those options by using one level of Unchained Monks as basis and Mantis Style to keep it leveling and relevant.

What you want are domains that offer a cheap debuff mechanism and deliver this either as a rider to an attack or a free action to setup the actual use of spells to cripple the target even more. Chaos, Archon (Law), Daemon (Evil), Decay (Plant), Protean (Chaos), Nightmare (madness), Repose and Storms (Weather) are good variants, as well as Void and some subdomains here.

Now, for more details, we´d have to talk about how evil and depraved it can be, or whether it has to skirt the more neutral or good-ish areas.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
Key elements differ based on whether it´ll going to be a low level game….

A "full build" combines those options by using one level of Unchained Monks as basis and Mantis Style to keep it leveling and relevant.

This will be for a low-ish level build, probably fifth or sixth at most.

I’ve never looked at the Unchained Monk in much detail, and no idea what Mantis Style is, so I might need some more explanation.


Originally Posted by Florian
Now, for more details, we´d have to talk about how evil and depraved it can be, or whether it has to skirt the more neutral or good-ish areas.

Well, evil-ish, or at least rather casual evil towards certain other races, but always in the service of a “greater good,” or at least a greater cause. No cruelty for its own sake, nothing really depraved, just efficient removal of any obstacles.

[souridealist]

I'm confused by the assertion that a cleric of Pharasma is locked into channeling positive energy. She's a neutral goddess, and I've never heard that her hatred for undead translates into a ban on channeling negative energy - only on the domain spells she grants.

A dhampir cleric of Pharasma is a fascinating idea, to me. An undeath-touched creature worshiping a goddess of natural death who hates the undead is a fascinating contradiction.

[legomaster00156]

Pharasmans can channel negative energy, but they cannot raise undead. That is why her Death domain is different from the standard Death domain.

[Florian]

@Palanan:

Unchained Monk is the simply the "better" Monk class that leaves the core concept unchanged but alters the mechanics in a way that the Monk is less MAD and easier to handle. So full BAB, new Flurry of Blows mechanics, customizable with ki powers and style strikes. Now the class is actually fun to play.

Mantis Style is a 3 feat chain that upgrades Stunning Fist by adding more daily uses, raising the DC and, important for this build, having non-Monk-levels count as Monk levels when it comes to what other conditions besides stunned can be applied.

Now keep in mind how touch spells work and what you can do with them. You can cast them and then hold the charge for some rounds and you can always opt to discharge them with a regular attack instead of a touch attack, doing regular damage, using iterative attacks and apply secondary riders.
Interesting spells for this build have a duration of rounds/level and can be applied with every hit.

So, basis is LN Dhampir Unchained Monk 1/Cleric (Herald Caller) 1+ of Sivanah with the Chaos (Protean) domain, traits go towards Fate´s Favored (Duh!), feats towards Monastic Legacy, Domain Strike (Protean), Mantis Style, Channel Smite and Mantis Wisdom. Herald Caller will add Augment Summoning as bonus.

As usual, use rod of extend spell on Divine Favor, Divine Power, Greater Magic Weapon.
Most important spells will be 1 - Barbed Chains, Touch of Blindness. 2 - Bloody Tears and Jagged Smile, Bone Fists. 3 - Bestow Curse. 4 - Blood Crow Strikes and so on...

What you do is opening up with a charge and stunning fist to try and disable the target, then follow up with a flurry, touch of blindness, touch of chaos, discharge bestow curse from spell storing AoMF (easy after ToC).

[Particle_Man]

So, basis is LN Dhampir Unchained Monk 1/Cleric (Herald Caller) 1+ or Savannah with the Chaos (Protean) domain, traits go towards Fate´s Favored (Duh!), feats towards Monastic Legacy, Domain Strike (Protean), Mantis Style, Channel Smite and Mantis Wisdom. Herald Caller will add Augment Summoning as bonus.

Wait, a lawful cleric can take a chaos domain?

[Florian]

Wait, a lawful cleric can take a chaos domain?

Funny, ain´t it? Sivanah is a N deity that doesn´t even offer the Chaos domain, but as every deity offers access to the home plane associated domain, you can gain Protean.

[legomaster00156]

Except for this rule.

A cleric can select an alignment domain (Chaos, Evil, Good, or Law) only if her alignment matches that domain.

[Gnaeus]

If you can get animal domain, at level 11 you can get the vampiric companion, with its fast healing 5 and undead type.

[Psyren]

Except for this rule.

Also this one:


Subdomains are treated as equivalent to their Associated Domain for any effect or prerequisite based on domains.

Protean therefore = Chaos for the purposes of the quoted rule, and your alignment must match.

[Florian]

No, there´s an exception to the general rule. It´s located in a sidebar explaining some irregularities with deities and subdomains i n one of the faith-centric splats. I´ll go looking for it tomorrow and post the reference source and page to it. (BBQ and soccer night again)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
*details on monk & etc.*

Okay, I appreciate the rundown on all this, it's good to know.

However, it’s getting a little ways from what I had in mind for this character, especially in terms of the domains. As I indicated above, this will be a cleric of Calistria, with Knowledge and Trickery domains. They may not be the absolute ideal, but they click perfectly for this character.


Originally Posted by souridealist
A dhampir cleric of Pharasma is a fascinating idea, to me. An undeath-touched creature worshiping a goddess of natural death who hates the undead is a fascinating contradiction.

This is definitely an intriguing character concept, and worth keeping in mind.


Originally Posted by Psyren
Anyhoo, there's other useful channeling feats like Selective Channel and Quick Channel.

Are there other channeling feats besides these that could be handy?

Beyond this, I’m wondering if a level or two of unchained rogue would be at all useful. Like my chosen domains, maybe not completely perfect, but works with what I had in mind.

.

[grarrrg]

Are there other channeling feats besides these that could be handy?

Versatile Channeler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/versatile-channeler/) is much more 'utility' than 'must have'.
BUT if you take Envoy of Balance (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/envoy-of-balance/) PrC it can be fun. At 4th level you can channel Positive and Negative at the same time (be sure to take Selective Channeling otherwise this is kinda pointless).