If you had to make the Great Old Ones killable, how would you do it?

[atemu1234]

What levels would you want to be able to kill them by? What kind of campaign would you run to do so? IDK, I'm just kinda curious what you guys would do.

I personally would make it a campaign meant to go up to 30th level, and probably make it so that they'd have to die to stop them. But that's because I like bitter, bolivian army, bard's song-type epic endings.

[heavyfuel]

Pathfinder has Cthulhu tagged at CR 30, but a competent party with access to 9th level spells should do the trick way before that level. If you backport him to 3.5 than consider giving him epic-spellcasting, cuz there's no way this version of his can survive a an epic caster

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu/

[Coidzor]

A determined party of 17th to 20th level should be able to begin genocide of anything associated with the Mythos that resides inside of reality and that isn't actually a god or demigod when translated into the mechanics of the game. Even with the power to start it and even see it through, they're not powerful enough to kill every Denizen of Leng and every Shoggoth, kill every cultist and destroy every forgotten tome of eldritch horror after making sure nothing can make new cultists by touching mortal dreams, etc. within the timescale of what could be played in a single campaign, they'd need to go somewhere into Epic Levels to do that.

A determined party of 20th to 25th level should be capable of traveling to Earth, going back in time, and then either providing Lovecraft with adequate mental healthcare or ritualistically killing him in such a manner that the Mythos is never able to properly get its tendrils into the multiverse through him and his work.

For the most part, I wouldn't have the big nasties as anything that ever actually materializes in reality, except limited forms of themselves that are as susceptible to massive damage as anything that isn't the Lady of Pain, so that the party is mostly dealing with the more mundane extradimensional horrors and aliens.

Cthulhu doesn't like steamboats being dropped on him. He's really not going to like it when swords forged of Platonic Reality with the magical purpose of destroying beings from outside of it are shoved in him and leave him with the choice of either leaving or dying in a much more concrete way than last time he kicked the bucket.

Nyarlahotep I always view as having a sense of humor, so he'd probably manifest something like he did in Persona 2 to have a nice fun series of boss fights against the party. 30+ seems about right for giving him a truly meaningful setback to his actual existence/ability to manifest himself and do things.

[Mordaedil]

I really don't like the idea of Old Ones being killed. I don't even really like the idea that they can perceived by the sane individual. A battle with Cthulhu should be a psychological break, where from an outsider perspective, it appears as if the players are drunk and throwing paper towels over a statue rather than seeing them actually battle a tentacle monster. Defeating an elder god is a huge double edged sword as you've also become relatively insane doing so.

They are only percieved by breaking ones own mind, as beings inhabiting a dimension a sane person cannot comprehend.

At least, that is how I would do it.

[90,000]

Widespread censorship. Erase all knowledge of them.

[OldTrees1]

I would take a step back and think about what role the _____ will have in my campaign considering I want something to happen that is incompatible with the original role (the original role being to evoke horror from humanity being worthless and inconsequential).


So what kind of story are you wanting to communally create?

Is it "We can kill monsters. Yay!", then something more like Kaiju would fit the bill. So I would create a CR = Party level + 3 monster, claim it was CR = Party level + 6, have NPCs be equal or lower level than the PCs, and have at it. The actual CR is not so important in this case.

Is it "You are in danger from a monster. Will you survive?", then I would use an aberration, Have it at CR = Party level + 5. There are higher level NPCs in the world, but the PCs are isolated as an obstacle to overcome.

Is it "I have defeated the monster, but despite being safe I am still horrified it once existed", then I would use a human...

Is it something else?



For me personally:
I would run a normal self driven PCs campaign for a few levels. Then I would have the being's presence start to be revealed to the players. There is something corrupted in this world and it is not new. The PCs will be at the point that their enemies are also aware of the corruption. The PCs can fight their enemies while using their knowledge to evade the being's presence. Or the PCs could embrace the presence by exploiting its nature. Or the PCs could end the presence but invoke the consequences (For example: The Material plane splinters with fragments being thrown to collide into the outer planes).

Edit: So something like Bloodborne's final encounter (ignore vs fight & face the consequences of victory)?

[Sagetim]

I mean...I'd just throw Solomon Grundy at it. He wants pants too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGQEAiZJMco), and has helped kill Cthulu before with punching. You know, in case any of you forgot. Might need to arm him with a Thanagarian Mace, but I think that wouldn't be too hard to approximate with some magic item crafting shenanigans.

Oh, you mean with a dnd campaign? Well, I've been in one where we killed an Atropal (CR 30) at level 18, so, you know...you don't necessarily need to breach epic to kill epic threats. I would expect some plucky players and their well built characters to be able to handle Cthulu by level 20, maybe even as the gate keeper to their plane's epic levels (as in, needs to be defeated before their plane can have anyone over level 20). And given that dnd magic includes cures to ability damage, I don't see insanity as being strictly incurable as it is in mythos games, and Mindblank would probably be strong enough to provide blanket protection from being driven crazy by the fight. In fact, for a well prepared party, fighting Cthulu would just be another Tuesday. But that goes more to show how crazy DnD can be compared to the Very mundane world and limits that Call of Cthulu games take place in.

[Florian]

What levels would you want to be able to kill them by? What kind of campaign would you run to do so? IDK, I'm just kinda curious what you guys would do.

Gods and Great Old Ones are as part of the fundamental building blocks of the multiverse, as the elemental planes themselves. They´re the inevitable heat death of the universe, no way to avoid it without trying to alter how reality works on a fundamental level. You might try and delay the inevitable, but ultimately, you can´t succeed, not even at the cost of the greatest sacrifices out there.

If at all, then what you can kill is some sort of minor aspect or dreamlands shard, nothing more.

[ShurikVch]

It's strongly depend on who, exactly, you mean by the "Great Old Ones"?

If it's False Gods - such as Cthulhu or Hastur, then it's completely doable: for example, Hastur's source of power is the city of Carcosa and lake Hali - destroy it and he's goner

But if it's True Gods - such as Azathoth or Nyarlathotep - then no, it's impossible - you will need to destroy the universe itself to get rid of them

[TheTeaMustFlow]

Ramming a steamboat into their head is traditional.

[emeraldstreak]

Pathfinder has Cthulhu tagged at CR 30, but a competent party with access to 9th level spells should do the trick way before that level. If you backport him to 3.5 than consider giving him epic-spellcasting, cuz there's no way this version of his can survive a an epic caster

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/great-old-ones/great-old-one-cthulhu/

d20 Call of Cthulhu also had it statted, as a greater deity if I remember correctly.

[Coidzor]

But if it's True Gods - such as Azathoth or Nyarlathotep - then no, it's impossible - you will need to destroy the universe itself to get rid of them

In Lovecraft's canon, sure.

Translated into the D&D tradition, on the other hand, well, gods and such beings get killed or chucked out of existence all the time.

[Piedmon_Sama]

Great Old Ones = Cthulhu, Dagon. Demigods basically, they'd have Divine Rank 0. You kill them by blowing them up really hard.

Outer Gods (whom you're probably thinking of) is generally a bit trickier. The universe is Azathoth's dream so if you killed him, uh.... well, so much for existence? Yog-Sothoth likewise is essentially a name for the fabric of space and time itself. Again, destroying Yog-Sothoth would mean evaporating the cosmos as we understand it.

With Hastur, Shub-Niggurath, and Nyarlathotep, sure it's possible. Those three are essentially just either big monsters or Loki. I'd say with Nyarlathotep you do something similar to the climax of The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath---bring him out to the edge of the eternal void beyond the Dreamlands and cast him in.

[Zanos]

Great Old Ones aren't that impressive by D&D standards. It's not really possible for 3rd level experts to destroy Cthulhu, sure, but the only things he actually does in the original material is take a nap, drive a couple folks near him crazy, drive some artists crazy, and then get hit by a boat.

He could honestly by CR 15 or so with an insanity aura and some kind of long range insanity SLA targeted at musicians and artists only. Good melee ability because he's usually depicted as being massive which pumps his CR pretty high because there's sort of a bare minimum for HD and damage output for a colossal creature. That's it, really. The save DCs on his insanity effects don't have to be that high either, just recurring. Some people are able to resist it for longer, implying the DC is low enough that having a +5 bonus vs say a +0 bonus actually matters. Also, he can't do anything at all without a very specific set of circumstances completely outside of his control. Him being a campaign ending threat is only really the case in a dedicated Mythos game where the strongest the heroes get are casting magic that drives them irrevocably insane after three spells and shooting cultists with revolvers. It's really just memetic from the "eats 1d3 investigators per round" thing.

Elder Gods were not a concept written by Lovecraft. All Nyarlathotep actually does in the original work is walk around and spam fascination/hypnosis on people and make them really confused. The only entity I can recall that a high level D&D character wouldn't want to mess with is Yog-Sothoth, because it is omniscient across all of space and time. But even that is conveyed by an unreliable and likely insane narrator, as with most of Lovecraft's stories.

[Dagroth]

Great Old Ones = Cthulhu, Dagon. Demigods basically, they'd have Divine Rank 0. You kill them by blowing them up really hard.

In Call of Cthulhu Modern, there's a rule about "blowing them up really hard"...

If you drop a nuke on Cthulhu... he just reforms 2d6 rounds later, and now he's radioactive.

[Sun Elemental]

I agree with OldTrees1. This is an endless discussion because it's intensely personal and individualistic to every campaign. It's up to the DM, and the DM better be on the same page as the players.

Is it possible to kill Yig? No, he's an OK guy.
How about Chaugnar Faugn, isn't he a bad guy?
.Can we kill him in a way that doesn't anger and terrify the other gods?
..Can we kill him with our current level of (low / medium-high / Pun-Pun) optimization?
...Can we kill him at level 17, or are lvl9 spells not enough?
....Can we kill him in a way that's satisfying to the campaign?
.....Will we have to do a fetch-quest to get god-killing weapons?
......How many primary casters do we need to find his 11-dimensional hideout somewhere?
.......Is killing enough, or is the party trying to ascend too?
........Is the party getting experience, or can we assume this is the end? How about treasure?

Personally... killing a 'good' god / elder being will result in allied gods immediately zapping you as soon as the god's clergy members learn about your plan. I hate the giant statblocks in Deities and Demigods, so I just assume gods are Solars / Balors / etc with better stats, at will Miracle, yada yada.

You'd need level 9 spells, but overleveling would give an extra margin for error. And an army of allies, all 15+ HD. Gods have retainers and liegemen and manservants of 15+HD, you can't solo that ****.

Definitely need a fetch-quest, if not an overarching goal of altering the religious beliefs of an entire continent or plane. Plus some serious diplomacy to keep 'wild card' gods from messing with you.

No treasure or experience, it would be the high point of the party's history. Definite campaign ending. No ascension to godhood unless a character already had hints in their lvl1 backstory of latent celestial heritage.

[Crake]

Nyarlahotep I always view as having a sense of humor, so he'd probably manifest something like he did in Persona 2 to have a nice fun series of boss fights against the party. 30+ seems about right for giving him a truly meaningful setback to his actual existence/ability to manifest himself and do things.

This makes me want to run a stupid one off adventure where the players are great old ones, only they're attending a high school and all have a crush on the same girl. Their objective? Get the girl without her committing suicide and graduate without the school being torn to shreds by otherworldly horrors.

[Dagroth]

This makes me want to run a stupid one off adventure where the players are great old ones, only they're attending a high school and all have a crush on the same girl. Their objective? Get the girl without her committing suicide and graduate without the school being torn to shreds by otherworldly horrors.

There's an anime for that (kinda)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyaruko:_Crawling_with_Love

[rel]

For me a big part of Mythos as opposed to non-Mythos stories is the underlying idea that reality does not function as everyone believes it does.

The existence of mythos entities is a clue that points to this fact. They don't seem to play by the rules as it were but that is just because you lack understanding.

But understanding comes with a price. Learning the true nature of reality can break all but the strongest minds and even if you can accept the impossibly vast and uncaring nature of reality without succumbing you are still changed.


So defeating the Great Old Ones should begin with gaining sufficient understanding to allow you to meaningfully interact with them.

Followed by what appears to you to be conventional conflict.

Followed by a realisation that in gaining what you needed to defeat them you have become something very much like them yourself.

I can elaborate if anyone is interested.

[Sagetim]

Oh, and if we're talking plans for killing Great Old Ones, I think mine as a player would involve a Truenamer and a Fighter (or other weapon using individual, it's all good). Open the fight up by transmuting the team mate's weapon to Thinaun. Proceed to watch them kill it just like any other monster that we've been fighting up until that point, probably within a few rounds with solid damage output. Laugh as great old one is soultrapped by Thinaun weapon, then laugh as Thinaun weapon ceases to be, and great old one's soul is sent into a null error and ceases to exist/goes to join the other vestiges in hanging out in a lonely nonexistent state.

Thinaun, the vestige maker.

Then again, I'm not really convinced any of the great old ones are all that powerful by dnd standards. As mentioned, they would have a decent CR from inflated hit dice and minimum stats for being colossal creatures and all, but none of their powers are particularly impressive. Especially compared to what wizards do on a regular basis in dnd games. To me, they are not some all power, sacrosanct undefeatable monster god creatures. They're just kind of what some guy a number of decades ago though would be scary. And when your protagonists have, at best, some crappy pistols and a drinking problem as their assets, a lot of things can be scary that aren't that big a deal in more objective terms.

[unseenmage]

I really don't like the idea of Old Ones being killed. I don't even really like the idea that they can perceived by the sane individual. A battle with Cthulhu should be a psychological break, where from an outsider perspective, it appears as if the players are drunk and throwing paper towels over a statue rather than seeing them actually battle a tentacle monster. Defeating an elder god is a huge double edged sword as you've also become relatively insane doing so.

They are only percieved by breaking ones own mind, as beings inhabiting a dimension a sane person cannot comprehend.

At least, that is how I would do it.

Fun thing about this is that Clones and Ice Assassins and Aleax exist and can be used by the player to do the fighting. Sure my clone's mind got broke but my mind is just fine over here in my bubble of mind healing magics and invulnerability.

Heroic fantasy plus monsters equals destroyed monsters. Sorry but them's the breaks when it comes to a clashing of genres. And make no mistake, that's truly what this is; heroic fantasy vs horror. In horror the underlying rule is, as I took away from my Horror in Literature class a very long time ago, that the supernatural will get you.

In heroic fantasy the hero wins, usually without much more justification than that.

Dragging heroes through a horror campaign can be tricky but fun and the parties involved have to be okay with the certain level of powerlessness that comes with experiencing the horror genre.
Dragging horror into a heroic campaign can be tricky but fun and the parties involved have to be okay with the power lying in the hands of the protagonists instead.

Based on the above, to me, dropping by a 'how to slay the monster' thread to describe your distaste for that form of fun seems unkind in a way IMHO.

[Piedmon_Sama]

I'm not a fan of the meme "lol if you look at this monster you wedgie yourself and start drubbing your lips going B-B-B-B-B-B-B" version of the Mythos myself. It's a lot more boring than what Lovecraft actually created---deep time, worlds within the psyche, races rising and falling through the ages....

[unseenmage]

...

Thinaun, the vestige maker.

...
This brings up what might be the better question, how does one slay a vestige?

Edit: Oh, and to actually address the OP... I, as anyone who's gamed with me knows, would drown them in Constructs. Many of which are artificial copies of themselves rejiggered to have even more superpowers than the original.

[Sagetim]

This brings up what might be the better question, how does one slay a vestige?

Edit: Oh, and to actually address the OP... I, as anyone who's gamed with me knows, would drown them in Constructs. Many of which are artificial copies of themselves rejiggered to have even more superpowers than the original.

Well, at that point the most contact they can make is if a Binder happens to figure out their summoning symbol and makes a contract with them. I mean, it could make for an interesting story with Binders trying to bind great old ones and accidentally kicking off a new, much more intense witch hunt against them for actually consorting with the kinds of powers that religions blame them for consorting with and use to justify burning them at the stake...

But yeah, the point of Vestiges is that they're pretty much already beyond just dead. They aren't really coming back from that without publisher intervention. Like how Tenebrous came back after being a Vestige for a while because someone at Wizards of the Coast said so. And if your DM doesn't care what Wizards has to say, then it's about as close as you can get to dead, totally dead, no really they aren't coming back dead. That's why making pacts with Binders is worth their while. Even being summoned into a Binding circle is more existence than they normally get to have, so getting to ride around some guy and potentially have an emotional influence on them because they are bad at making deals is better than the screaming agony of not. I mean, as I understand it that wouldn't be really all that new to the Great Old Ones anyway, so vestiging them may well just be putting them back in their box. But it's Still putting them back in their box. Not letting them come back in a few rounds and radioactive.

[Malroth]

I really don't like the idea of Old Ones being killed. I don't even really like the idea that they can perceived by the sane individual. A battle with Cthulhu should be a psychological break, where from an outsider perspective, it appears as if the players are drunk and throwing paper towels over a statue rather than seeing them actually battle a tentacle monster. Defeating an elder god is a huge double edged sword as you've also become relatively insane doing so.

They are only percieved by breaking ones own mind, as beings inhabiting a dimension a sane person cannot comprehend.

At least, that is how I would do it.

Nobody above Lv 5 is sane by any definition.

[Dagroth]

Nobody above Lv 5 is sane by any definition.

Hey! Murder-Hobo is a valid lifestyle choice!

[Tvtyrant]

As the Great Old Ones are born from Lovecrafts fears, I would focus on that. If you take Lovecraft out of his own works, they become hokey Kaiju movies where everyone is doomed because of some monater with a zipper, instead of it being a metaphor for the uncaring caress of an objective universe where extinction is inevitable over billions of years.

Lovecraft lived in a period where the discovery of new rules of science and social realities kicked the fabric of hi understanding out from under his feet, and being a phobic and somewhat cowardly man he dealt with it badly (along with strangers, women, and his own ancestry.) Recapturing that requires adapting it to modern sensibilities and fears. The fear is what can't be killed, not the monsters.

Things that probably don't scare you anymore:
Italians
Hillbillies
relativity and particles
the idea of subjective experiences
psychology

Thinngs that likely scare you that he didn't know about/care about:
Atomic War
Dehumanization
Global Warming
Social Isolation

Shared fears:
Animals
Lack of personal importance

[Grim Portent]

As the Great Old Ones are born from Lovecrafts fears, I would focus on that. If you take Lovecraft out of his own works, they become hokey Kaiju movies where everyone is doomed because of some monater with a zipper, instead of it being a metaphor for the uncaring caress of an objective universe where extinction is inevitable over billions of years.

Lovecraft lived in a period where the discovery of new rules of science and social realities kicked the fabric of hi understanding out from under his feet, and being a phobic and somewhat cowardly man he dealt with it badly (along with strangers, women, and his own ancestry.) Recapturing that requires adapting it to modern sensibilities and fears. The fear is what can't be killed, not the monsters.

I don't think they really can be updated in a manner that keeps them true to their original concept. Humans today have kind of gotten used to the idea of life being meaningless, death being inevitable and the fact that one day the whole universe will just end and none of what ever happened in it will have mattered, and those more or less sum up what Lovecraft found scary about the idea.

How do you update beings who drove people to nihilistic insanity to a time when many people are already at least familiar with nihilism, if not already at least a bit nihilistic themselves?



As for the question of the OP, precedent set by the Dunwich Horror is that (implied) half Great Old Ones can be killed by dogs, or by magic wielded by normal humans in the case of the more potent one in the story. As a result I'd make Cthulhu and his kin just unusually resilient giant monsters essentially, with the added requirement of celestial alignments for them to function properly, so if the stars move too far or one is destroyed they have to retreat or collapse into slumber.

The Outer Gods really just come across as gods with mildly unusual portfolios and motivations, and would probably best be represented as such.

[Coidzor]

As the Great Old Ones are born from Lovecrafts fears, I would focus on that. If you take Lovecraft out of his own works, they become hokey Kaiju movies where everyone is doomed because of some monater with a zipper, instead of it being a metaphor for the uncaring caress of an objective universe where extinction is inevitable over billions of years.

Lovecraft lived in a period where the discovery of new rules of science and social realities kicked the fabric of hi understanding out from under his feet, and being a phobic and somewhat cowardly man he dealt with it badly (along with strangers, women, and his own ancestry.) Recapturing that requires adapting it to modern sensibilities and fears. The fear is what can't be killed, not the monsters.

Things that probably don't scare you anymore:
Italians
Hillbillies
relativity and particles
the idea of subjective experiences
psychology

Thinngs that likely scare you that he didn't know about/care about:
Atomic War
Dehumanization
Global Warming
Social Isolation

Shared fears:
Animals
Lack of personal importance

Wait, normal people are scared of animals?

[Eldan]

The Old ONes aren't that impressive, usually, from when they are shown. They don't drive most people permanently insane, only shock them for a while. They are quite strong, but I wouldn't put them much above, say, an ice giant in that respect. You could conceivably stat Cthulhu as low as a CR 10 collosal aberration.

[Tvtyrant]

Wait, normal people are scared of animals?

Spiders, snakes, bats, dogs, black cats, bears, apes, centipedes, etc. Most people are afraid of at least one animal.

[ShurikVch]

In Lovecraft's canon, sure.

Translated into the D&D tradition, on the other hand, well, gods and such beings get killed or chucked out of existence all the time.Allow me to quote:
The true gods are not the god's of humanity. Somewhere in the heart of space-time the conceptual weight of cosmic principles grows so dense that they take material form and the rudiments of identity. We call them the Outer Gods.
Since existence of Outer Gods is merely a consequence, and cause is "conceptual weight of cosmic principles", how exactly you gonna kill 'em without destroying the universe?
OK, if you got access to something setting-rearranging like Epic Magic or Pandorym-expy, then I can believe it; otherwise - no way!



Great Old Ones = Cthulhu, Dagon. Demigods basically, they'd have Divine Rank 0. You kill them by blowing them up really hard.Note: by the Call of Cthulhu d20 rules, all False Gods are Demigods (except Nodens the Hunter - Lesser God), and all True Gods are Intermediate Gods (except Azathoth - Greater God)



Oh, and if we're talking plans for killing Great Old Ones, I think mine as a player would involve a Truenamer and a Fighter (or other weapon using individual, it's all good). Open the fight up by transmuting the team mate's weapon to Thinaun. Proceed to watch them kill it just like any other monster that we've been fighting up until that point, probably within a few rounds with solid damage output. Laugh as great old one is soultrapped by Thinaun weapon, then laugh as Thinaun weapon ceases to be, and great old one's soul is sent into a null error and ceases to exist/goes to join the other vestiges in hanging out in a lonely nonexistent state.

Thinaun, the vestige maker.There's a problem with this plan: Thinaun capturing souls; but who said Great Old Ones have souls?



This makes me want to run a stupid one off adventure where the players are great old ones, only they're attending a high school and all have a crush on the same girl. Their objective? Get the girl without her committing suicide and graduate without the school being torn to shreds by otherworldly horrors.Ow, my sanity (http://owmysanity.comicgenesis.com/d/20091225.html)


P.S. I'm vaguely remembering there was a bit more stuff in the thread (say, something about "eldritch" elves). Where's it? Edited out? Or just wrong thread?

[Honest Tiefling]

Spiders, snakes, bats, dogs, black cats, bears, apes, centipedes, etc. Most people are afraid of at least one animal.

Dolphins. Seriously, I'd rather be in a room of spiders then near a dolphin.

However, I think I'd be a jerk DM and if people fought these gods, they could. Just that if a Great Old One dies, something or someone has to take its place...And a mere mortal isn't the same as a being of great power and intellect. So by doing so, all you have done is slightly change the new guy in town and sacrificed a whole lot of people do it. Maybe that the Great Old One would be weakened for a bit, so definitely less active for a slightly better outcome.

[Arbane]

P.S. I'm vaguely remembering there was a bit more stuff in the thread (say, something about "eldritch" elves). Where's it? Edited out? Or just wrong thread?

It's in the other thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521502-Gunslinger-STILL-doesn-t-understand-the-Cthulhu-mythos)

[Sayt]

Charles Stross does modern Eldritch/cosmic horror really well, including terrifying eldritch elves!

[Yael]

There's an anime for that (kinda)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyaruko:_Crawling_with_Love

I just love the loss of sanity in episode 1st.

Call of Cthulhu d20 stats Nyarlathotep as weaker than Cthulhu, and that triggers me so bad :smallmad:

[Coidzor]

Spiders, snakes, bats, dogs, black cats, bears, apes, centipedes, etc. Most people are afraid of at least one animal.

Interesting. I'd have said that people with a phobia are the exception, not the rule.

[Arbane]

I just love the loss of sanity in episode 1st.

Call of Cthulhu d20 stats Nyarlathotep as weaker than Cthulhu, and that triggers me so bad :smallmad:

It also stats Cthulhu as lower CR than Elminster. :smallbiggrin:

[atemu1234]

It also stats Cthulhu as lower CR than Elminster. :smallbiggrin:

Of course! Nothing is a bigger eldritch abomination than a Mary Sue!

[Dagroth]

Of course! Nothing is a bigger eldritch abomination than a Mary Sue!

I don't think truisms are supposed to be blue text...

[Mordaedil]

Ed Greenwood is a pretty cool dude, actually.

[ShurikVch]

It's in the other thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521502-Gunslinger-STILL-doesn-t-understand-the-Cthulhu-mythos)Yes! :smallsmile: It's it.
Somehow, I completely forgot about that, and Google failed me
Thanks!



Call of Cthulhu d20 stats Nyarlathotep as weaker than Cthulhu, and that triggers me so bad :smallmad::smallconfused: What?!
How exactly is CoC d20 Nyarlathotep "weaker than Cthulhu"?
Firstly, CoC d20 Cthulhu is a Demigod, and Nyarlathotep - Intermediate God
Secondly, deities in CoC d20 have actual Challenge Rating; Cthulhu is 34, and Nyarlathotep - 45
Thirdly, Nyarlathotep (unlike Cthulhu) have Rejuvenation:
Rejuvenation (Ex): Nyarlathotep is very difficult to destroy (it has been attempted many times). An attack sufficient to kill the Crawling Chaos simply disperses his essence for 10d10 days. During such periods his avatars continue to function normally, often arranging some unpleasant fate for the one who killed their prime.
And finally,
Spells: Nyarlathotep can cast any spell as a free action.Any spell! As a free action, Carl! (Take that, TO people!) Oh, and Epic Spells are still spells too (Pun-Pun's "logic")

[atemu1234]

Ed Greenwood is a pretty cool dude, actually.

Hey, I love the guy. I'm just tongue-in-cheeking my way around his literary style.

[Yael]

Yes! :smallsmile: It's it.
Somehow, I completely forgot about that, and Google failed me
Thanks!


:smallconfused: What?!
How exactly is CoC d20 Nyarlathotep "weaker than Cthulhu"?
Firstly, CoC d20 Cthulhu is a Demigod, and Nyarlathotep - Intermediate God
Secondly, deities in CoC d20 have actual Challenge Rating; Cthulhu is 34, and Nyarlathotep - 45
Thirdly, Nyarlathotep (unlike Cthulhu) have Rejuvenation:
And finally,Any spell! As a free action, Carl! (Take that, TO people!) Oh, and Epic Spells are still spells too (Pun-Pun's "logic")

Ah.

You're right. I hadn't really checked in-depth.

Gotta grant a lovecraftian cookie for my shame :(