Mapping schools to MTG colours

[GilesTheCleric]

[Update: Some folks want to try and do it on an individual card basis. What do you think each card should be? Sheet is here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/143ZX7yOZAbO5vPEXQNXzSvQRqF_U2NEh7OzOnWCn8rU/edit?usp=sharing); you can type directly into the cells.]





I've done a little googling, but haven't come up with anything. How would each of you map each school of magic to the MTG colour pie?

Current consensus:
Abj: WU
Conj: gold
Div: U
Ench: WU
Evo: R
Ill: UB
Necro: B
Trans: UG
Uni: C

This is for some spell cards, in case that matters to your opinion. Examples of the five colours here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0AYNSTc94bDXzBtTnpKQUVtRm8); dual colours here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0AYNSTc94bDUGJzNFRqRzNCdkk).http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DampD%20MTG%20Card7_zpspmjkp5ez.png
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DampD%20MTG%20Card7-1_zpsy08ege3b.png
Iif anyone finds nice textures that are better for the backgrounds, let me know. Resolution should be 1000x1500 or larger.

[Cosi]

I don't think schools map super well onto colors. Necromancy is mostly the same stuff as Black, but it doesn't get planar binding to do the demon summoning Black wants to do.

I think the colors are in some respects better divisions of effects than the schools are, but they don't map back and forth at all well.


abjuration (white, because CoP)

Abjuration gets the classically Blue ability to counter spells, as well as explosive runes, and bunch of trap spells.


conjuration (green, because summon creature)

Green summons animals and plants. It doesn't really map very well onto a school with glitterdust, planar binding, and teleport.


divination (blue, because draw)

Sure.


evocation (red, because burn)

Red doesn't particularly get acid damage, or light damage, or cold damage. Also evocation is missing the emotion magic Red does.


enchantment (purplish, because of the galaxy-pattern background for enchantment creatures, or gold/multicolour)
illusion (black/blue, because blue is already taken)

Enchantment and Illusion are mostly Blue. There are exceptions, but that's pretty solid.


transmutation (red/blue because Izzet, green/blue because Simic, or brown[artifact])

From a flavor perspective, Transmutation seems to be Blue (the card Polymorph is Blue). It shows up in Green sometimes though (on Druids). Mechanically, most Transmutation effects are "basically an aura", which is something any color can do.

[flappeercraft]

I would do Gold Abjuration, Yellow Divination, Brown Transmutation, Red Evocation, Black Necromancy, Chroma/Silver Illusion, Pink Enchantment Orange Conjuration and White for Universal. No real reason why, I just associate those colors with those schools of magic for some reason, well at least more than other colors.

[Quertus]

I've done a little googling, but haven't come up with anything. How would each of you map each school of magic to the MTG colour pie?

abjuration (white, because CoP)
conjuration (green, because summon creature)
divination (blue, because draw)
evocation (red, because burn)
necromancy (black, because regenerate)


enchantment (purplish, because of the galaxy-pattern background for enchantment creatures, or gold/multicolour)
illusion (black/blue, because blue is already taken)
transmutation (red/blue because Izzet, green/blue because Simic, or brown[artifact])

OK, you seem to be mapping in the opposite direction than it sounds like you are.

ALL the colors are about summoning creatures (Conjuration), so let's ignore that. What else do they do? From my experience, off the top of my head...

White is about heroism (???), bringing back the dead (Necromancy), and healing (Necromancy).

Blue is about mind control (Enchantment/Charm), and seeing the future (Divination)

Black is about the undead (Necromancy), corruption (???), and bringing back the dead (Necromancy).

Red is about dealing direct damage (Invocation) and chaos (???).

Green is about controlling the weather (???), returning everything (not just creatures) from the graveyard (???), regenerating (Necromancy) and otherwise making creatures beastly (???).

So... every color maps to conjuration. Most colors, especially white and black, map to necromancy. Blue solidly maps to Charm and Divination. Red and Invocation have a lot in common.

Now, let's flip that to what you seemed to be saying.

Necromancy is about life (White, Green), death (Black), and the undead (Black).

Illusion is about... illusions (Blue).

Transmutation is about changing things (Blue, Red... and a little Green).

Invocation is about fire, lightning (Red), acid (Green), frost (Blue/Green), sonic (???) effects, especially damage.

Divination is about seeing the future (Blue).

Conjuration is about summoning things (All).

Enchantment/Charm is about manipulating and controlling things (Blue (although White, Red, and Black have a little, too)).

Abjuration is about protecting things (White) and undoing magic (White, Blue, and a little Green).

[Vogie]

I would break them down into color pairs.

Abjuration - WU - Both types of protection and battlefield manipulation
Divination - UB - Future manipulation expressed as tutoring and draw
Necromancy - BG - Manipulation of Life/Death
Evocation - RG - Raw Magic of the nature persuasion
Enchantment - GW - The colors of the Enchantresses, and enchantment bonus/manipulation
Conjuration - GU - Summoning creatures and other permanents
Illusion - UR - Red's illusions are temporary, while blue's are slightly more permanent
Transmutation - UC - Creating and manipulating artifacts
Universalist - CWUBRG - A little bit of everything


I had also broken down the styles of Druid into their different MTG colors for a project I started and then abandoned. You may also enjoy them for other purposes

Mono
Aquatic U
Jungle G
Mountain R
Plains W
Swamp B
Urban C

Ally
Arctic WU
Blight UB
Cave GW
Desert BR
Beastmaster RG

Enemy
Storm UR
Saurian BG
Reincarnated WB
Mooncaller GU
Worldwalker RW

Shard
Dragon RBG
Frog UWB
Boar WGU
Monkey GRW
Bat BUR

Wedge
Bear GUR
Eagle UWR
Lion WRB
Wolf GUW
Serpent BUG

[bekeleven]

Well, let's break these down and see what they correspond to.

I will use the following terminology:

A functional limitation determines by which in-universe mechanics magic can function. An example of a functional limitation is being unable to create new things (Transmutation).

A flavor limitation is a limitation based on what the end results of the magic can achieve, in-universe. An example of a flavor limitation is that abjuration spells shouldn't be primarily offensive.

A mechanical limitation is a limitation on what magical can do, expressed in terms of the game. An example of a mechanical limitation is that enchantments can't affect the real, physical world.


Abjuration: Abjuration that feel "protective" or "defensive." This is a flavor limitation. In other words, it can use the mechanics and functions of other schools. Abjuration can dip its toes in nearly everything.

Conjuration: Spells that act by creating or manipulate things. This is a functional limitation. As it turns out, you can accomplish nearly anything by creating and moving matter. Also, if you move something a short enough distance it's transmutation instead, go figure.

Divination: Spells that find stuff out. This is, with some exceptions, a flavor limitation: The spells can use any in-universe functions so long as the end result is that they give the user knowledge. This knowledge comes either in one of two mechanics: Concrete facts or static bonuses to rolls. Note that divination mostly has a monopoly on giving concrete facts but plenty of schools can provide static bonuses to rolls.

Enchantment: Spells that change people's minds and perceptions. Enchantment has some closely coupled limitations in all 3 spheres, which makes it perhaps the most logically consistent of the 8 schools, but also the most... well, limited. As a spell that changes things (the minds of living beings), enchantment is a subschool of transmutation. This can be seen in some of their mechanical and flavor bleeds.

Evocation: Spells that create and manipulate energy. Only, since Conjuration can secretly already do that, evocation is a subschool of conjuration. This explains why Conjuration can do everything evocation can do, with the exception of a small handful of higher-level tricks. Note that evocation's limitation is functional, but the most useful spells from it tend to break the mechanical rules that the rest of them set up. Evocation's flavor is often very inconsistent. Oftentimes, writers will make a spell that functions through some other mechanism (Frequently transmutation), but realize it does damage, then flip a coin as to whether it goes into the flavor-appropriate school or evocation.

Illusion: Spells that act by changing people's perceptions. Illusion is a functional subschool of enchantment, which is already a functional subschool of transmutation. Illusion has a few important spells that manipulate matter (the [shadow] ones), which are secretly conjuration spells.

Necromancy: Spells that feel eeeeevvvviiiiillll. This is a flavor limitation. Yes, there's some amount of functional limitations based on manipulating life-force (despite healing spells being moved out), but that's broken more often than not. Necromancy is scattershot mechanically, much of it feeling appropriate for enchantment or transmutation.

Transmutation: Spells that act by changing physical objects. Like conjuration, this is a functional limitation. And like conjuration, this limitation is so vague as to be utterly meaningless in terms of mechanics and flavor.

So, what schools of magic are there?

There are two schools: Conjuration (making things) and Transmutation (changing things).

Conjuration has one subschool: Evocation (creating energy). Transmutation has one as well: Enchantment (changing people), which has its own subschool of illusion (changing senses).

Then, we have three non-exclusive conceptual grab-bags: Necromancy (Spells that manipulate life and/or are sinister), Abjuration (Spells that protect or do antimagic nonsense), and Divination (spells that find stuff out).


Now, how do the five schools of magic function. Note that things will be a bit more vague, because of the effort that WotC's designers have put into trying to mesh the three limitations, sometimes haphazardly. Also, all colors have mechanical limitations... mostly.

White: White is the color of protection and order. This is a functional limitation. White can do things like direct damage, destruction/exile, buffs, and debuffs as long as it serves this flavor. In other words, White has essentially no mechanical or flavor limitations, besides "no card advantage unless maybe sometimes."

Blue: Blue is based around knowledge, self-improvement, artifacts... and also air and water. Oh, and blue is also the color of "pure magic" in the sense of metamagic and antimagic. So blue has some toes in every pie: It can function through certain elements, it can include mechanics of spell manipulation, and it has the flavor of improving the wizard using it (as though other color can't do that mechanically). Blue being the "color of magic" explains why its color pie was so enormous in the initial game, and remains exclusive to this day.

Black: Black isn't the color of evil, but just between you and me, it's the color of evil. Yes, non-evil elements sit within its sphere, but they're very rarely invoked in-game (it's officially the color of ambition and amorality). So black is mostly a flavor color, although it might have one or two mechanical limits of things it still can't do, even when paying life to do them.

Red: Red is the color of emotions, hedonism, chaos, fire, earth, and the occasional scrap of artifacts or "pure magic" that blue was too full to finish eating. Once again we see that there are functional limitations (creating and manipulating emotions), mechanical limitations (nearly everything as long as there's a coin flip), and flavor limitations (for instance, its inability to manipulate enchantments, which let's be honest makes no real sense except as a retroactive game balance justification).

Green: The color of nature, destiny, and inner peace. But also the color of making things really big? Green shouldn't exist. Both its mechanical (https://scryfall.com/card/kld/144) and its functional (https://scryfall.com/card/akh/187) limitations are actually shrinking set by set.


What does that leave us with?

Well, the first functional school of magic, conjuration, is the creation of matter (and some energy). All colors of magic summon creatures (they were originally called summons), while blue has the best artificers, and red has some artifact shenanigans of its own along with the best creation of matter on a large scale (note that land ramp is not matter creation). Conjuration is in all colors, with a concentration in blue and red. Healing is white.

Conjuration's subschool, evocation, is the creation of energy, almost always used offensively. Offensive energy creation, as we all know, is based in red. Other energy creation (like, for instance, contingency) are very blue, mechanically and flavorfully. So evocation follows its superschool's color affiliation as blue and red.

The second functional school is transmutation, the manipulation of matter. Well, physical matter is occasionally manipulated on a large scale in red (cf. Obliterate). Meanwhile, creatures are literally "polymorphed" in blue, but most alteration of living beings (animal growth et al) are green. I'd say that transmutation is primarily in green, with blue being secondary due to its creature and artifact manipulation, and red being tertiary.

Transmutation's subschool, Enchantment, is the manipulation of souls and minds. MTG cards that represent enchantment are things like mind control effects and umbras. Enchantment appears to align most closely with blue and green.

Enchantment's subschool, illusions, is blue. I assume nobody is arguing this point.

Abjuration's "anything defensive" aligns most closely with white's ability to do whatever it wants as long as it serves protection. However, its place as "the antimagic color" covers a lot of blue-exclusive abilities. Abjuration is primary in both white and blue, with maybe a small showing in green.

Divination's knowledge and seeking of the truth mostly lines up with blue's large emphasis on card selection, although some meditation-style magic has been bleeding recently into green. Divination is primary in blue and secondary in green. Some black card advantage spells are probably Necromancy/Divination dual school.

Necromancy is black. It used to be black-white but they moved healing out.


So, to sum up:

Abjuration: WU
Conjuration: URw
Divination: Ugb
Enchantment: UG
Evocation: UR
Illusion: U
Necromancy: B
Transmutation: UGr

Do you see a pattern? I see a pattern.

[Gildedragon]

Red gets ALL [fire] [electricity] spells, protection from [cold], str buffs, sundering buffs, dispelling spells at a lower than normal CL
Blue gets a good chunk of Illusion and divination spells, all [water] and [cold] spells, counter-spelling effects, int and wis buffs, protection from [fire] and [law] spells,
Green pretty much the whole of the Druid/Ranger list, about half the [acid] spells, targeted magic dispelling and nullification (esp Disjunction), physical buffs
Black: [death] effects, all ability damage/drain (esp Con) effects, [poison] effects, [shadow] illusions, undead effects, disease effects, [sacrifice] component effects, that WuJen spell that kills you at the end, the Necromancy school, protection from [good] and [law], about half of [acid] spells, [darkness] spells
White: Healing, dispells/status removers, protection from [evil] and [chaos], force effects, disrupt undead, fear countering buffs, all [light] spells, [good] and [law] descriptors, the whole paladin list, ac and save buffs

[GilesTheCleric]

Just so everyone's clear, this is for some spell cards. If you can think of a better solution (right now I'm placing the school initial next to the level of the spell), then please do let me know.

They definitely don't map perfectly to each other, but I'd like to get as close as I can to "yes, that's a logical colour for this school" as a first impression when you see them.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd160/ryuusui-ken/DampD%20MTG%20Card_zps8qovkcut.png


Abjuration Blue
Enchantment Blue
Illusion Blue
Transmutation Blue


Necromancy (White, Green), (Black), (Black).
Illusion (Blue)
Transmutation (Blue, Red... and a little Green)
Invocation (Red), (Green), (Blue/Green)
Divination (Blue)
Conjuration (All)
Enchantment (Blue (although White, Red, and Black have a little, too)).
Abjuration (White) (White, Blue, and a little Green).



Abjuration: WU
Conjuration: UR
Divination: Ug
Enchantment: UG
Evocation: UR
Illusion: U
Necromancy: B
Transmutation: UG

It seems like everyone is pretty agreed that most of the schools include or are well-represented by blue. Do you think that we should have one of each mono-coloured school (as I have), or should all the schools go with the colour combos that best represent them (as bekeleven has)? Or maybe something in between?

Do you think that colourless/ artifact/ brown or gold/multicoloured would be fitting for any schools, perhaps Conj or Trans?

[Gildedragon]

Conj and Trans spells are spread about the colors.

Minor/Major creation, Permanency, Fabricate... Probably colorless
Wall of stone would be R or G or Colorless

Hmm metamagics would also be colorless.

Some spells would be Gold depending on the effect. Like using Create Undead to make bog zombies or the like would be BG

Luminous Armor is a good BW spell.

[Honest Tiefling]

I suggest:

Abjuration (white, because CoP, no disagreements there)
Divination/Illusion/Enchantment (blue, because draw and screwing around with people's minds)
Necromancy (black, because of course it is)

Conjuration as has been pointed out, is literally the entire purpose of the game. I'd split it across the colors, with green recieving the bulk of summoning monsters because green has usually been associated with summoning animals. But white could do summoning of celestials, and blue with water elementals.

Evocation would be the same deal as Conjuration, for pretty much the same reasons. Fire to red, force to white, cold to blue. Only one I wouldn't know where to put is acid, but I feel like spraying your enemies with acid is very green.

Transmutation is probably another one best left to be chopped up. Things like Cat's Grace seem more in the realm of Green, but Gaseous Form/Air Walk should be blue.

I guess I am not very helpful today.

[GilesTheCleric]

Red gets ALL [fire] [electricity] spells, protection from [cold], str buffs, sundering buffs, dispelling spells at a lower than normal CL
Blue gets a good chunk of Illusion and divination spells, all [water] and [cold] spells, counter-spelling effects, int and wis buffs, protection from [fire] and [law] spells,
Green pretty much the whole of the Druid/Ranger list, about half the [acid] spells, targeted magic dispelling and nullification (esp Disjunction), physical buffs
Black: [death] effects, all ability damage/drain (esp Con) effects, [poison] effects, [shadow] illusions, undead effects, disease effects, [sacrifice] component effects, that WuJen spell that kills you at the end, the Necromancy school, protection from [good] and [law], about half of [acid] spells, [darkness] spells
White: Healing, dispells/status removers, protection from [evil] and [chaos], force effects, disrupt undead, fear countering buffs, all [light] spells, [good] and [law] descriptors, the whole paladin list, ac and save buffs

Keying colour off descriptors is an interesting idea, but I don't know how feasible that would be to do with a data merge, particularly for spells that have multiple descriptors. Additionally, adding the colours doesn't do much to actually tell you anything if multiple descriptors have the same colour -- I'd still have to actually type out the descriptors somewhere.

[Gildedragon]

Keying colour off descriptors is an interesting idea, but I don't know how feasible that would be to do with a data merge, particularly for spells that have multiple descriptors. Additionally, adding the colours doesn't do much to actually tell you anything if multiple descriptors have the same colour -- I'd still have to actually type out the descriptors somewhere.

Multiple descriptors tells you they're multicolored spells... Or corner case spells that do something of some other color.
Spells that could be of two colors clearly use split mana symbols. Wings of Cover, for example, would be Blue or White.

Prismatic effects would probably be pentacolored / sunburst

[Cruiser1]

http://www.astrolog.org/other/schools.gif

Instead of trying to pigeonhole the 8 D&D magic schools into the 5 MTG schools, it may be better to consider the D&D schools independently, and arrange them in their own (slightly larger) MTG-style wheel, with friendly adjacent and enemy opposed schools. Obligatory link: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13825077&postcount=25

[Jormengand]

See, I'd say that:

Abjuration is white/blue ("Prevent the next X damage which would be dealt to target Y" is white, "Counter target spell" is blue, "Counter target spell unless its controller pays X" is white/blue).
Conjuration is too many colours (Artifact interaction (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#calling) is UR, Healing is WG, Token creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#summoning) is all colours, Exile (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#teleportation) is white)
Divination is blue (Scry X is blue, look at hand effects are blue)
Enchantment is white/blue/red ("Creatures you control get +X/+Y" is white, "Gain control of target creature" is blue, "Gain control of target creature until end of turn" is red.)
Evocation is red (Damage is red)
Illusion is blue/black (Illusions are blue and shadows are black)
Necromancy is black (Fear effects and return-from-graveyard are black)
Transmutation is white/blue/green (Enchantments which buff creatures are white/green, card (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magesLucubration.htm) draw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mnemonicEnhancer.htm) is blue, extra turns (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/haste.htm) are blue.)
Universal is colourless (Cards from outside the game (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) are colourless)

[GilesTheCleric]

-snip-

A good post, and thank you for including the links to emphasise each point.

So, a sum of potential colours thus far, from everyone who has contributed, plus myself:

Abjuration: WU, WU, W, WUg, U, W
Conjuration: URw, gold, gold, gold, G
Divination: Ugb, U, U, U, U
Enchantment: UG, WUR, U, Uwrb, U, gold
Evocation: UR, R, gold, UGR, R
Illusion: U, UB, U, U, U, UB
Necromancy: B, B, B, WGB, B
Transmutation: UGr, WUG, UG, URg, U, URG/ artifact
Universal: C, gold

So maybe a good average would look like:

Abj: WU
Conj: gold
Div: U
Ench: WU
Evo: R
Ill: UB
Necro: B
Trans: UG
Uni: C

How can we differentiate abj from ench? I don't think I can use more than two colours, since that turns into a gold frame as far as I know. And, in terms of helping to differentiate between spells on different cards, having just about all of them with a component of blue makes each of them less distinct.

[bekeleven]

You can make tribrid cards using certain card frames. These are the "M15 Extra" frame (http://imgur.com/a/xbjLe).

[GilesTheCleric]

You can make tribrid cards using certain card frames. These are the "M15 Extra" frame (http://imgur.com/a/xbjLe).

Those are pretty neat. Do you know where I could find the rasters for those? I've looked around, but haven't been able to find them for any type of frame.

[Kurald Galain]

Abj: WU
Conj: gold
Div: U
Ench: WU
Evo: R
Ill: UB
Necro: B
Trans: UG
Uni: C

I'm missing a couple of things here.

While conjuration does come in all colors, it is primarily green, as green is the color most focused on creatures. To make a clearer distinction between blue/white abjuration and blue/white enchantment, note that removal of existing spells (e.g. Naturalize) is traditionally green, whereas temporarily taking over enemies (e.g. Blind with Anger) and various kinds of rage powerups are traditionally red. Likewise I think red/green would be a better match for transmutation, as blue is overused (and doesn't really relate to transmuting physical things).

[Jormengand]

While conjuration does come in all colors, it is primarily green, as green is the color most focused on creatures.

That's fine for summoning (which appears in all colours) and calling (which is a bit difficult to define in a MAGIC context, but actually MAGIC summoning is more like D&D calling and MAGIC creation is more like D&D summoning so both of them appear in all colours), but healing is white, teleportation (move from battlefield to zone that isn't the graveyard) is WU, and creation is UR (artifacts et al).

[GilesTheCleric]

I think that just like in magic, there will always be spells in each school that are mis-categorised. What I'm aiming for here is "this colour instantly makes me think of X school". If you saw a card, would a gold frame or a green frame bring to mind "conjuration" more readily?

I agree with arguments for both WG or WU abjuration -- they do both seem fitting. But what about just W?

RG transmutation does make sense, too. But, I think that Simic does represent transmutation really well: "Novijen is the genetics laboratory where the Simic design and perfect their biological experiments."

I don't think anyone disagrees on these:
Div: U
Evo: R
Ill: UB
Necro: B
Uni: C

So I'll probably start working on those frames in earnest after I get the layout and piping hammered down. How do you all feel about the placement of all the data on the card (image in OP)?

And, I was planning to do the set marker in red/ black/ blue/ purple to indicate my personal ratings for each spell (below-average, average, above-average, optimised), since I don't know if there's any other type of scale that should apply. I guess maybe I could change them based on cast time or something, but I'd still have to write it on the card somewhere.

[Elkad]

Skimmed through the whole thread trying to figure out what was going on in here.

No hint as to what MTG stands for, had to Google it.


I'd ask if it's still played, but here we are playing (or at least theorycrafting) another old game.

[GilesTheCleric]

Skimmed through the whole thread trying to figure out what was going on in here.

No hint as to what MTG stands for, had to Google it.


I'd ask if it's still played, but here we are playing (or at least theorycrafting) another old game.

Magic the Gathering is another property owned by Wizards of the Coast. It's the cash cow that allows them to publish D&D (because D&D doesn't really make any money). Yes, it's still a widely-played game. A new expansion (Egyptian-themed) launched just a few weeks ago.

[Mordaedil]

MTG is like the second biggest nerd hobby, alongside Warhammer, behind PC gaming. D&D is way more obscure.

[Elkad]

I played it a few times when it was new.

Not my cup of tea. But then I'm shocked every time I see people playing the predigested pap known as WoW instead of any one of dozens of better MMOs.

[GilesTheCleric]

I played it a few times when it was new.

Not my cup of tea. But then I'm shocked every time I see people playing the predigested pap known as WoW instead of any one of dozens of better MMOs.

Different strokes for different folks.



In any case, I've updated the OP with the latest (hopefully 95% final) card frames. I've done one for each of the five colours. Tomorrow I'll see about either making the dual-coloured frames, or a small test datamerge.

Please let me know what you think of the frames.

The folks over on the 5e forum (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521838-Mapping-MTG-colours-to-schools&p=21929692) have been helping out with a colour-per-spell spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B2t3-swLGUX_yxazsKaqqY7DDIaBe7bnsD8dv33cXuw/edit?usp=sharing). If someone has the fortitude to create such a thing for 3e, let me know; I've got a spreadsheet. For the time being, I personally don't want to go through ~4000 spells by hand and designate colours for them all.

[Mordaedil]

I played it a few times when it was new.

Not my cup of tea. But then I'm shocked every time I see people playing the predigested pap known as WoW instead of any one of dozens of better MMOs.

You played it when it was new, but missed how it was all over the same shelves when you bought your second, third, fourth, fifth edition or pathfinder books? I'm not criticising here, I'm legit curious how you managed to miss it, because I wish I could have.

[weckar]

Here MTG is more a behind-the-counter sale thing. Nowhere near the RPG books. I'd say it's easy to miss.

[Quertus]

Hmmm... Although it would be a lot of work, honestly, I'd recommend picking the MTG colors on a spell by spell basis, rather than converting schools wholesale.

There was a thread about, "if you got a (random?) Spell as a super power" that might be helpful for getting the list of spells.

Or you could just post the individual spells that you're actually printing, and we'll give our opinions on what color(s) they should be.

[Elkad]

You played it when it was new, but missed how it was all over the same shelves when you bought your second, third, fourth, fifth edition or pathfinder books? I'm not criticising here, I'm legit curious how you managed to miss it, because I wish I could have.

Intro to D&D was with friends at Jr High, who had a basic set and a DMG. PHB wasn't released yet, which puts it firmly in 1979 (which also matches my age at that school).
Buy D&D box set in hobby store (basic set with cardboard cutouts instead of dice, and B2, plus a set of store dice I still have). PHB still not released. Mom is the DM, we clear a few sections of B2, and then have a TPK (dad and 4 youngest kids) in the ghoul room. Mom has never played a character, just that one stint as DM.

Continue buying in hobby stores, including while I was in the Army, until I had all the core 2nd books.
Looking at a date chart, Magic was new about the time the 2Ed reprints came out with the terrible cover art. 1995ish. That's probably when I played it.

1997 (spring): I switched to MMOs (UO beta), which devoured my soul. And my wife's soul. We were VERY addicted for a while.

In 1998 I moved. All my boxes of D&D stuff got stuck in the shed at the new place. Basic set, 1st ed, 2nd ed, every Dragon mag from 60 to 120ish, plus some odd issues, 3rd party stuff, nearly every 1st or 2nd module published to then, etc. Along with all my other systems. Traveler, Star Fleet Battles, Boot Hill, Gamma World, GURPS, Paranoia, Car Wars, etc.

In 1999 I discovered a roof leak in the shed. It was small, but it had been there for many months. Directly over those boxes. Everything except dice/minis was destroyed by water.

Fast-forward to 2011. In that decade gap my brother got another SFB set, which ended up at my house, but didn't get played a lot A couple times a year. Other than that I continued to play MMOs mostly (UO and DAoC are the bulk of it). New friend invites me to a 3.5 game. Started playing, then DMing. But everything (other than my old dice/minis) has been purchased online.

TLDR: I haven't set foot in a hobby store since 1994ish

[GilesTheCleric]

Hmmm... Although it would be a lot of work, honestly, I'd recommend picking the MTG colors on a spell by spell basis, rather than converting schools wholesale.

There was a thread about, "if you got a (random?) Spell as a super power" that might be helpful for getting the list of spells.

Or you could just post the individual spells that you're actually printing, and we'll give our opinions on what color(s) they should be.

Well, if folks are up for it, then we can give it a go. Here's the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/143ZX7yOZAbO5vPEXQNXzSvQRqF_U2NEh7OzOnWCn8rU/edit?usp=sharing). You should be able to type right into the sheet.

I'll update the OP with a link.

[Buufreak]

A thought, as I haven't really seen it discussed thus far. While magic colors do have a focus on which kinds of perms they can put on the field, there is also which types each color can remove. Obviously black is the primary for kill spells, but all the others have "spot removal" as well. Blue is notorious for unsummoning literally everything. White kills aggressive creatures, creatures of certain black archetypes, and occasionally artifacts and enchantments. Green is limited in the types it can kill, but does it rather quickly and for low costs, like naturalize. Then king agro Red can destroy just about anything except enchantments, because they aren't physically existing.

Then we get into discussions of ally and enemy colors, and how they tend to work together/against each other...

Honestly, after looking the entire thread over, and seeing what is the original intent of the OP, you might be best off downloading a card maker and doing most of these by scratch. But if I can help out, I'll gladly give input for a friend.

[Gildedragon]

Looking over the chart.
The various detect spells ought not all be Blue I think.
Detect Taint, Detect Evil and Detect Chaos are all very W effects
Detect Undead Law and Good are pretty B
Weaponry, Magic and Vestige as U make sense
Though I could see Weaponry as R
In MTG terms Detect Spells are akin to looking at the opponent's hand, with a restriction as to what they show you, and all colors got some of those effects

[GilesTheCleric]

A thought, as I haven't really seen it discussed thus far. While magic colors do have a focus on which kinds of perms they can put on the field, there is also which types each color can remove. Obviously black is the primary for kill spells, but all the others have "spot removal" as well. Blue is notorious for unsummoning literally everything. White kills aggressive creatures, creatures of certain black archetypes, and occasionally artifacts and enchantments. Green is limited in the types it can kill, but does it rather quickly and for low costs, like naturalize. Then king agro Red can destroy just about anything except enchantments, because they aren't physically existing.

Then we get into discussions of ally and enemy colors, and how they tend to work together/against each other...

Honestly, after looking the entire thread over, and seeing what is the original intent of the OP, you might be best off downloading a card maker and doing most of these by scratch. But if I can help out, I'll gladly give input for a friend.

There is certainly a ton of complexity to magic card development. I think that if we give everything a fair shake and maybe a squint, we can make it work, though. I trust all of you to know more about mtg than I do.

A card builder doesn't (probably? I haven't looked) have the kind of automation I can get with InDesign, though, nor the customisation. Once I have templates for each colour, it's easy to do a datamerge from a spreadsheet to populate all the cards in one (or more likely 15-17) fell swoop. From there I can save them as pdfs for easy print setup.


Looking over the chart.
The various detect spells ought not all be Blue I think.
Detect Taint, Detect Evil and Detect Chaos are all very W effects
Detect Undead Law and Good are pretty B
Weaponry, Magic and Vestige as U make sense
Though I could see Weaponry as R
In MTG terms Detect Spells are akin to looking at the opponent's hand, with a restriction as to what they show you, and all colors got some of those effects

Feel free to type those changes (or add a comment) right on the doc. I see that someone has already given a decent number of spells some colours; thank you, anonymous. I've added in a counter to make it easy to see which spells do not yet have colours.



Also, my test dual-colour card is complete; let me know what you think of it. Getting precisely the same gradient as a real card is a bit tricky, but I think it's pretty close. See OP for image.