Path of War Campaign

[D.M.Hentchel]

I'm running a Pathfinder campaign inspired by Into the Badlands. To do so I have banned all traditional spell casting and replaced it with Spheres of Power. Now I am encouraging players to play as path of war classes. Though I heard somewhere that the archetypes for normal classes have an unnecessarily limited maneuver progression. Looking at the classes and the reduced progression I'm inclined to agree.

However I'm unsure if I should simply remove the maneuver level cap keeping the reduced amount of maneuvers known and readied, or if I should bring it on par with what the Warder and Zealot get. Hidden Blade however seems very competitive with Stalker. I'm not concerned with these classes overshadowing the SoP classes (that is kinda the point), but I don't want them to overshadow the core 3 PoW classes.

Curious what you Playgrounders think of it, I'm leaning towards full progression.

[legomaster00156]

I understand that giving initiating archetypes the progression of the Warder is a popular choice.

[Epic Legand]

If I understand your intent, you want to make a POW variant on a base class have full progression....Kind of massively undermines the core 6 classes for POW. If your OK with that, then it's fine. It sounds like a fun campaign setting. Also cannon for some magic martial arts.

[Tuvarkz]

I'm running a Pathfinder campaign inspired by Into the Badlands. To do so I have banned all traditional spell casting and replaced it with Spheres of Power. Now I am encouraging players to play as path of war classes. Though I heard somewhere that the archetypes for normal classes have an unnecessarily limited maneuver progression. Looking at the classes and the reduced progression I'm inclined to agree.

However I'm unsure if I should simply remove the maneuver level cap keeping the reduced amount of maneuvers known and readied, or if I should bring it on par with what the Warder and Zealot get. Hidden Blade however seems very competitive with Stalker. I'm not concerned with these classes overshadowing the SoP classes (that is kinda the point), but I don't want them to overshadow the core 3 PoW classes.

Curious what you Playgrounders think of it, I'm leaning towards full progression.

Boosting the archetypes to Warder (or Zealot) progression should do the trick. Iirc the 6th-level progression was specific for the base class initiators to be the best at it, not really out of balance issues with the archetypes.
However, you should consider keeping the Pathwalker, Warpath Follower, Polymath, and Eclipse as 6th level, given that they are also 6th level manifesters/divine casters/alchs.

[digiman619]

Boosting the archetypes to Warder (or Zealot) progression should do the trick. Iirc the 6th-level progression was specific for the base class initiators to be the best at it, not really out of balance issues with the archetypes.
However, you should consider keeping the Pathwalker, Warpath Follower, Polymath, and Eclipse as 6th level, given that they are also 6th level manifesters/divine casters/alchs.

Forgive me, but that is Eclipse an acrhetype/class template for? Because I knw the others are for Pychic Warriors, Warpriests/Inquisitors, and Alchemists/Investigators, respectfully.

Also, if you include War Souls (the Soulknife initiator), I suggest removing the "...and expend psionic focus" part of the recovery method, as it's unduly harsh, especially at early levels.

[exelsisxax]

Definitely don't just give archetypes full initiator progression. The hybrid archetypes would become blatantly overpowered.

For hybrid casting archetypes, do not change them other than converting them to SoP, and perhaps changing their max level limitation from being based on class level to class initiator level. Having easy access to two completely different problem-solving mechanisms is powerful enough while limited to 6ths.

For archetypes of classes that suck (fighter, monk) or didn't really gain anything(barbarian) giving them full 9th level progression isn't unreasonable, as long as they have a slow version like a Warder. Let them have nice things for once, you know?

For the rest, the classes are about where they should be. However, it wouldn't break anything if you did beef them up a little bit. For single-class only builds, warder progression wouldn't be out of line. Otherwise, giving them Warder progression with max level based on initiator level, so they would still have extra maneuvers over hybrid casters.

But it does depend on your group's optimization level and mastery. There is huge potential in min-maxing multiclass builds with SoP-PoW hybrid archetypes, but if your group is the kind to have wizards prepare only snowball "because grease and colour spray don't do damage", you would be below the threshold for which balance matters much.

[Tuvarkz]

Forgive me, but that is Eclipse an acrhetype/class template for? Because I knw the others are for Pychic Warriors, Warpriests/Inquisitors, and Alchemists/Investigators, respectfully.

Also, if you include War Souls (the Soulknife initiator), I suggest removing the "...and expend psionic focus" part of the recovery method, as it's unduly harsh, especially at early levels.

Meant Nightmare archetype (Dread), not Eclipse. For some reason I keep scrambling up the archetype name with another's.

[Rynjin]

I'd give most martials full Maneuver progression for free. Compared to most Core, Hybrid, and Base classes, the PoW classes have better class abilities, pound for pound, and full maneuver progression.

A Fighter, Cavalier, or Gunslinger with Warder progression, or Rogue or Monk with Stalker progression still look pretty pitiful next to actual Warders and Stalkers.

Rangers, Paladins, Barbarians, Brawlers, and Slayers (these last two on the weak end) fit roughly into the same power scale given Warder or Warlord progression.

The only problems are your 6 level casters if you give them full Maneuvers, I would limit THEM to the 6 level Maneuver progression (or let them trade in 6 level casting for full Maneuver progression).

[D.M.Hentchel]

A clarification:

There is no spellcasting, manifesting, or extracts in this campaign, only the SoP classes, so the hybrid archetypes aren't actually usable. They don't get traditional casting and can't trade it out with a SoP archetype because they both modify spellcasting.

[digiman619]

A clarification:

There is no spellcasting, manifesting, or extracts in this campaign, only the SoP classes, so the hybrid archetypes aren't actually usable. They don't get traditional casting and can't trade it out with a SoP archetype because they both modify spellcasting.

Well, there is one wasy to gish it up: The Warshifter (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/warshifter) archetype.

[D.M.Hentchel]

Well, there is one wasy to gish it up: The Warshifter (http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/warshifter) archetype.

Totally missed that one, I'll just keep that one 2/3rds maneuvers.

Also sadface on no Mageknight initiator

[angelpalm]

Every 6th level initiator archetype can already get access to higher level maneuver simply by using prc's and the Advanced Study feat.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?502708-Path-of-War-Archetypes-amp-Advance-Study