Dota 2 anyone?

[sabashahid]

So I play this MOBA based game dota 2 which is the biggest online game and has the biggest esports prize poll, but never saw thread related to dota. If anyone of you know about it or want to check it out please reply I would love to talk about it.

[Anteros]

We had one a few years ago, but not many people participated. I haven't played in a year or so now, but I still watch streams sometimes while I'm doing homework or something. Used to hover around upper 4k to low 5k when I played.

[Meta]

The Dota players are busy playing and have no time to comment in a thread. :smallwink:

[gooddragon1]

I play Dota 2 here and there, but after a bit it gets boring. I don't feel like there's a lot of skill involved unless you like planning out all your items and reflex battles. Pudge is the closest I get to being a sniper that leads the shot. After a while it just becomes the same deal over and over. I lament that my 32 bit computer cannot run the now 64 bit Planetside 2.

[Legoshrimp]

So I play this MOBA based game dota 2 which is the biggest online game and has the biggest esports prize poll, but never saw thread related to dota. If anyone of you know about it or want to check it out please reply I would love to talk about it.

I have mostly played league, although not regularly recently. I think I have still played more dota then dota2, and I haven't played that for 8 years
:smalltongue:
I almost started playing a bit when day9 started his dota series, but I have been traveling in europe for a while, so not the best place to start trying to pick up a competitive game. And looking forward other games are going to be more interesting, D3 necro and starcraft remastered specifically. So I probably won't end up starting it. Although if a big GitP community starts up I might start playing some.

Also I think lol is still more played, and think it very likely that hearthstone also has a larger playerbase.
But I am having a hard time finding any real info on it, this (https://nowloading.co/posts/3916216) is what I have found, which doesn't strike me as the most likely to be accurate. This one (http://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2017/04/20/lol-wow-lead-moba-and-mmo-rankings-in-2017/) seems better and says the same thing. One thing about the prize pool, while dota2 has the biggest single event I think LoL, and maybe CSGO end up having more money in the entire system yearly.

[Meta]

I play Dota 2 here and there, but after a bit it gets boring. I don't feel like there's a lot of skill involved unless you like planning out all your items and reflex battles. Pudge is the closest I get to being a sniper that leads the shot. After a while it just becomes the same deal over and over. I lament that my 32 bit computer cannot run the now 64 bit Planetside 2.

Interesting, I've not heard this before. Dota is generally considered to have a very steep learning curve, complex mechanics, and the better players nearly alway win any sort of 1v1. I'm not going to randomly take a game off Miracle or Dendi anytime soon, and I'm a pretty decent player.

Dota is definitely not the most played game. LoL is way bigger, and though Riot fudges their numbers, (a LoL player ran a program to track all players in games played, and it arrived at a much smaller number than advertised) it is still quite a bit more popular. Dota does have the biggest esports prize totals though, and I find it to be way more interesting than League and other contemporaries. I also find Riot to be rather evil, but mayhap that's drifting off topic.

A GitP channel for inhouse games would be pretty fun. I play with a couple of other posters that I went to uni with.

[Bucky]

I play Dota 2 here and there, but after a bit it gets boring. I don't feel like there's a lot of skill involved unless you like planning out all your items and reflex battles. Pudge is the closest I get to being a sniper that leads the shot.

Dota 2 has several strategy layers. It sounds like you're not thinking much about some of them.

You seem well aware of the fighting and execution layer.

Pudge is the easy entry point to the vision and initiation layer. He obviously takes advantage of cases where he can see an enemy hero but not the other way around by hooking them and starting a fight with a large advantage as a result. But the principles are more general, and safely warding and scouting becomes important as players understand that.

Even broader than that is the time advantage and map control level. Kill enemies, threaten to kill them or force them to defend a tower from creeps and they can't scout or ward. Draw out their Town Portal scroll and they're stuck in one part of the map. This leads to a chess-y layer where teams try to take towers and neutral camps without a fight because the other team cannot respond in time, or to take 5v3 fights when part of the other team can't assist.

[gooddragon1]

Dota 2 has several strategy layers. It sounds like you're not thinking much about some of them.

You seem well aware of the fighting and execution layer.

Pudge is the easy entry point to the vision and initiation layer. He obviously takes advantage of cases where he can see an enemy hero but not the other way around by hooking them and starting a fight with a large advantage as a result. But the principles are more general, and safely warding and scouting becomes important as players understand that.

Even broader than that is the time advantage and map control level. Kill enemies, threaten to kill them or force them to defend a tower from creeps and they can't scout or ward. Draw out their Town Portal scroll and they're stuck in one part of the map. This leads to a chess-y layer where teams try to take towers and neutral camps without a fight because the other team cannot respond in time, or to take 5v3 fights when part of the other team can't assist.

For the same reason I don't like playing a full caster in 3.5 (particularly a wizard), I don't enjoy the chessmastering aspect of Dota 2. That level of strategy feels like paranoia to me more than entertainment. I feel like I might have a subconscious gank sense developed over a period of time from dota 1 and 2, but I'm not interested in intense strategic evaluation. That's what I like about planetside 2. I'm just one guy on the battlefield with a sniper rifle doing some "fishing".

[Olinser]

Most people on this forum that are playing a MOBA are playing League of Legends. (Several people do play both, so you may want to ask in the League thread)

However if you really want to get people together step 1 would be to put in the OP of the thread a list of people that play and on what server.

I don't play at all anymore but I do still enjoy watching pro DOTA 2 matches.

[HMS Invincible]

Valve just invaded the meatspace. They're demanding a unique cell phone number for each dota account that wants to play ranked, aka the only game in town (yes I know unranked games are played a lot). I'm torn between the blow against smurfers, and the lost of privacy. =.=

[Olinser]

Valve just invaded the meatspace. They're demanding a unique cell phone number for each dota account that wants to play ranked, aka the only game in town (yes I know unranked games are played a lot). I'm torn between the blow against smurfers, and the lost of privacy. =.=

I mean... that's really not hard to get around. I guarantee anybody has multiple friends or family members that will never play the game ever that they could use their numbers for another account without a big deal.

[Anteros]

Is it really a loss of privacy? Unless you were playing behind a VPN with fake info on your Steam account they knew who you were anyway.

[Legoshrimp]

Yes, it might not be a huge change, but now they also have your phone number. Knowing who someone is doesn't mean they have no privacy.

A simple solution if you care about it a lot is to get a burner phone and use it for this.

The problem with using a phone you don't always have access to is that when you need to verify your account you would have to ask whoever to get the code.

[Siosilvar]

Oh hey, it's convenient this should pop up just as I'm starting to get back into the game.

Been playing unranked at low-to-mid 3k equivalent. If anybody wants to play, just search my username on Steam.

[Olinser]

On the subject of DOTA 2, the Kiev Major is starting on Monday.

I personally think EG is most likely to win it all, but far from a sure thing.

Anybody following it at all have any thoughts on who is likely to win?

[Meta]

On the subject of DOTA 2, the Kiev Major is starting on Monday.

I personally think EG is most likely to win it all, but far from a sure thing.

Anybody following it at all have any thoughts on who is likely to win?

I think OG is the best team in any given major but IG is really hot at the moment.

I hope wings (random) gets it together. They've really flamed out.

[gooddragon1]

I think OG is the best team in any given major but IG is really hot at the moment.

I hope wings (random) gets it together. They've really flamed out.

Hmm, but what do you think of the meta?

[Olinser]

Hmm, but what do you think of the meta?

Like in what context? The joke a lot of people have been saying is this is the Hand of Midas meta even after the nerf.

Champion wise Monkey King just got a big nerf so he probably won't be nearly as hotly contested, so maybe Slardar will start coming back? That probably leaves Earth Spirit as the big early pick/ban, but support pool is still pretty wide for viable ones - Warlock, Rubick, Crystal Maiden, Dazzle have all been picked reasonably often the past few weeks I wouldn't really expect that to change.

Watching minor games and tournaments over the past couple weeks its kind of felt like the Lina/Sniper/Alchemist show in mid with everybody else below them, even after the talent level shuffle on Lina. Even then though Invoker is still Invoker.

Safe lane is still pretty fluid although Lifestealer is still popular and Abaddon has been highly contested in is some regions.

I don't really think anybody has anybody huge shocking choices they're going to unveil.

[gooddragon1]

Like in what context? The joke a lot of people have been saying is this is the Hand of Midas meta even after the nerf.

Champion wise Monkey King just got a big nerf so he probably won't be nearly as hotly contested, so maybe Slardar will start coming back? That probably leaves Earth Spirit as the big early pick/ban, but support pool is still pretty wide for viable ones - Warlock, Rubick, Crystal Maiden, Dazzle have all been picked reasonably often the past few weeks I wouldn't really expect that to change.

Watching minor games and tournaments over the past couple weeks its kind of felt like the Lina/Sniper/Alchemist show in mid with everybody else below them, even after the talent level shuffle on Lina. Even then though Invoker is still Invoker.

Safe lane is still pretty fluid although Lifestealer is still popular and Abaddon has been highly contested in is some regions.

I don't really think anybody has anybody huge shocking choices they're going to unveil.

Note the name of the poster I quoted :).

[Olinser]

Note the name of the poster I quoted :).

I know. I was taking the joke seriously to see if you were going to play along :(.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/your-pun-is.jpg

[HMS Invincible]

Oh hey, it's convenient this should pop up just as I'm starting to get back into the game.

Been playing unranked at low-to-mid 3k equivalent. If anybody wants to play, just search my username on Steam.

I added you, though I'm not sure how often you play. Daily? Weekend? Once a week? I'm closer to 1/week.

[Meta]

I'm iNuzzle on steam, feel free to add me. I usually play in groups of 3-5 from a pool of about 10 regulars (3 GitPers) that averages out around 3k, but has a low of 1.5k and high of 6k MMR. Some of us know each other from outside the computer screen, but some don't and we're a very laid back bunch. Twice a week EST, generally.

Burning is back?

[Olinser]

I'm iNuzzle on steam, feel free to add me. I usually play in groups of 3-5 from a pool of about 10 regulars (3 GitPers) that averages out around 3k, but has a low of 1.5k and high of 6k MMR. Some of us know each other from outside the computer screen, but some don't and we're a very laid back bunch. Twice a week EST, generally.

Burning is back?

I mean he never left.

With him IG won the DOTA Asia Championships by 3-0ing OG and they only dropped 3 games the whole tournament.

[sabashahid]

Interesting, I've not heard this before. Dota is generally considered to have a very steep learning curve, complex mechanics, and the better players nearly alway win any sort of 1v1. I'm not going to randomly take a game off Miracle or Dendi anytime soon, and I'm a pretty decent player.

Dota is definitely not the most played game. LoL is way bigger, and though Riot fudges their numbers, (a LoL player ran a program to track all players in games played, and it arrived at a much smaller number than advertised) it is still quite a bit more popular. Dota does have the biggest esports prize totals though, and I find it to be way more interesting than League and other contemporaries. I also find Riot to be rather evil, but mayhap that's drifting off topic.

A GitP channel for inhouse games would be pretty fun. I play with a couple of other posters that I went to uni with.

I feel like people find it difficult to play dota 2 as comapred to lol or CSGO. People say that all the time its so hard and you guys even have to use mana for a tp and also that you tp has a cool down lol.

[sabashahid]

The Dota players are busy playing and have no time to comment in a thread. :smallwink:

Yeah that is true.

[sabashahid]

I play Dota 2 here and there, but after a bit it gets boring. I don't feel like there's a lot of skill involved unless you like planning out all your items and reflex battles. Pudge is the closest I get to being a sniper that leads the shot. After a while it just becomes the same deal over and over. I lament that my 32 bit computer cannot run the now 64 bit Planetside 2.

umm no my friend I dont agree with you and I think that anyone who had played dota for over a year would also not agree with you. There are like 115 heroes and each have different game plays. And OMG you said you dont feel like there is much skill involved? Dude there are players who could miss laguna with blink and that timing and those reflexes come on man just say you dont like dota but dont say that.

[Meta]

I mean he never left.

With him IG won the DOTA Asia Championships by 3-0ing OG and they only dropped 3 games the whole tournament.

Yeah, I was optimistic about IG, waffled about putting them or OG as the winner in my compendium, but one tournament is one tournament. I was more speaking to the 1040 GPM AM game, though.

He's definitely had ups and downs, but happy to see him in an up again.

[Olinser]

umm no my friend I dont agree with you and I think that anyone who had played dota for over a year would also not agree with you. There are like 115 heroes and each have different game plays. And OMG you said you dont feel like there is much skill involved? Dude there are players who could miss laguna with blink and that timing and those reflexes come on man just say you dont like dota but dont say that.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of DOTA 2 mainly because of a number of not particularly logical gameplay elements that are mainly a relic of the WC3 engine, but lack of skill required is definitely not one of my complaints - just watch Sumail or SCCC play something like Storm Spirit or Jerax play Rubick in a competitive game and try to claim they take no skill.

[HMS Invincible]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of DOTA 2 mainly because of a number of not particularly logical gameplay elements that are mainly a relic of the WC3 engine, but lack of skill required is definitely not one of my complaints - just watch Sumail or SCCC play something like Storm Spirit or Jerax play Rubick in a competitive game and try to claim they take no skill.

Which relics are you talking about?

[Ionbound]

I believe he's referring to denying, for the most part, which was originally a bug, rather than a feature.

[Olinser]

Which relics are you talking about?

Things like camp stacking, different armor and attack types on some jungle creeps letting them do and take more/less damage, inherent 25% hero magic resist causing most spells to do less than the tooltip says even if target has no actual defenses, minion blocking, creep denial, soaking EXP off jungle monsters even if the enemy team kills them, etc. Things that players familiar with the game know because they've seen them done, but that don't make that much sense to people that have never played the game.

They're not really BAD, per se, but they raise the entry bar to get into the game and a lot of them don't really add much gameplay value because it just means both sides do them equally.

[Anteros]

Things like camp stacking, different armor and attack types on some jungle creeps letting them do and take more/less damage, inherent 25% hero magic resist causing most spells to do less than the tooltip says even if target has no actual defenses, minion blocking, creep denial, soaking EXP off jungle monsters even if the enemy team kills them, etc. Things that players familiar with the game know because they've seen them done, but that don't make that much sense to people that have never played the game.

They're not really BAD, per se, but they raise the entry bar to get into the game and a lot of them don't really add much gameplay value because it just means both sides do them equally.

A lot of that stuff is actually getting phased out recently. The problem is that it seems to be too late. Most people who want to play a MOBA have already picked one anyway by now. All they're accomplishing now is alienating their existing player base, which is why the numbers have been dropping.

[gooddragon1]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of DOTA 2 mainly because of a number of not particularly logical gameplay elements that are mainly a relic of the WC3 engine, but lack of skill required is definitely not one of my complaints - just watch Sumail or SCCC play something like Storm Spirit or Jerax play Rubick in a competitive game and try to claim they take no skill.

Not no skill. Skills I don't find entertaining. Chessmastering and reflex battles.

[Olinser]

A lot of that stuff is actually getting phased out recently. The problem is that it seems to be too late. Most people who want to play a MOBA have already picked one anyway by now. All they're accomplishing now is alienating their existing player base, which is why the numbers have been dropping.

Well the problem is they're both doing too much and not doing enough.

They need to decide what they want to do - attract more players or focus on keeping their current base happy.

Attracting more players would require them to make pretty significant changes to the game. They're kind of moving in this direction with the shrines, talents, etc, but at the same time they're not really changing anything that's going to tell prospective players, "Hey look how new we are, come check the game out!"

And these changes come at the cost of pissing off their existing player base. So they're not making drastic enough changes to really increase their base, and the changes they ARE making are not going over particularly well with the current base. That's not a recipe for success on any level.

I think they'd be better off trying to make DOTA 3 than salvage DOTA 2.

[Meta]

It's a tricky balance. In a microcosm, denying makes no sense flavorfully. Why is killing your allies a good thing? In a war, denying any resource to your opponent is great though, like setting fire to equipment you need to leave behind. Denying also is another skill tester, and players can choose to focus on advancing their own gold acquisition or slowing enemies. Multiple ways to play.

In general I'm going to favor most design decisions that open up new playstyle space, even if a bit odd.

[Olinser]

So any of yall up to date on the Kiev Major?

I do think that its looking more and more likely the final is going to be IG vs OG.

[Olinser]

So then.... that is just a thing that happened.

VP blew a nearly 20k gold lead in game 5 by losing 5 straight teamfights, and lost it all.

And this is AFTER being up 2-1 in the series.

Like... WTF.

[Ionbound]

I mean, there's a reason they're called Virtus.Throw :smallcool::smalltongue:

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Things like camp stacking, different armor and attack types on some jungle creeps letting them do and take more/less damage, inherent 25% hero magic resist causing most spells to do less than the tooltip says even if target has no actual defenses, minion blocking, creep denial, soaking EXP off jungle monsters even if the enemy team kills them, etc. Things that players familiar with the game know because they've seen them done, but that don't make that much sense to people that have never played the game.

They're not really BAD, per se, but they raise the entry bar to get into the game and a lot of them don't really add much gameplay value because it just means both sides do them equally.
The funny thing is, those are the elements of Dota 2 which I find intriguing...

Basically, the whole thing is far more toolboxy than any other MOBA out there, which makes it super unique.

(Don't currently play, because I don't really have the time.)

[Bucky]

So then.... that is just a thing that happened.

VP blew a nearly 20k gold lead in game 5 by losing 5 straight teamfights, and lost it all.

And this is AFTER being up 2-1 in the series.

Like... WTF.

What happened was...
Alchemist did Alchemist things and 6-slotted himself with 5 midgame items. He then needed to sell one off and replace it, creating a weak timing. OG picked him off at the start of the weak timing.

Troll then did Troll things and took the tier 3 tower even though there was a tier 2 tower in the way. He ate the shrines for dessert once Alchemist respawned.

At that point the gold lead evened out to where OG could win a teamfight conditional on a good Treant ult.

[Meta]

I think OG is the best team I've ever seen at teamfighting while behind. Their cohesion and target prioritization is really top notch. Fly played out of his mind.

[Olinser]

I think OG is the best team I've ever seen at teamfighting while behind. Their cohesion and target prioritization is really top notch. Fly played out of his mind.

Yeah they're definitely one of the best right now.

I was pretty surprised they 2-0ed EG, although I thought EG made some really questionable draft choices.

I would not be shocked if OG finally took The International this year.

[Cynan Machae]

Yeah they're definitely one of the best right now.

I was pretty surprised they 2-0ed EG, although I thought EG made some really questionable draft choices.

I would not be shocked if OG finally took The International this year.

Or they will do like last year and do well in all Majors then loose to a qualifier team at TI

...I want Notail to win :(

[Olinser]

Or they will do like last year and do well in all Majors then loose to a qualifier team at TI

...I want Notail to win :(

Its funny the announcers were actually talking about that very thing.

OG has won something like... what... 4 or 5? Major events. Exact number doesn't matter that much - a lot more than anybody else. But then they got knocked out so easily in International last year.

They're definitely on a roll right now though. They have placed no lower than tying for 3rd in ANY event they have participated in since last October - and that was just a tiny little online invitational that was a BO1 elimination.

In fact if you disregard that one event, other than the International OG hasn't fallen below tying for 3rd place since April 2016.

They're definitely strong contenders for the top spot at International this year, although I do think EG is a better team.

Although fun fact - at the time of Kiev Major, Ana is actually the #1 ranked MMR player in the world with just short of 9500.

[Anteros]

Although fun fact - at the time of Kiev Major, Ana is actually the #1 ranked MMR player in the world with just short of 9500.

That's just because I only play unranked. I swear I'm totally 10k.

[Olinser]

That's just because I only play unranked. I swear I'm totally 10k.

Though a lot of people have pointed out that 10k might be unachievable without a decent increase in the number of players in ranked, and that even if it were possible right now it would basically require a large number of the higher ranked players to go through a sustained period of playing ranked in similar times for some of them to get past 10k.

[Meta]

New compendium is pretty awesome. Looking to pick up the reef terrain for sure.

[Bucky]

Though a lot of people have pointed out that 10k might be unachievable without a decent increase in the number of players in ranked, and that even if it were possible right now it would basically require a large number of the higher ranked players to go through a sustained period of playing ranked in similar times for some of them to get past 10k.

The alternative way to get to 10k is to be so good at the game that you can literally 1v5 a team of 5k mmr players.

[Meta]

Cynan Machae and I won T5 battlecup on USEAST yesterday. He's Cynan on Steam and I'm iNuzzle. Feel free to add either of us if you want to get in on the next one!

[Olinser]

So now that the forums are back up, anybody watching the Epicenter qualifiers? Couple of them have been pretty shocking.

Finals not complete, but totally predictably the final is NaVi against Secret. I favor Secret myself, given they already won the earlier Bo3.

I was SHOCKED by the outcome here. LGD Forever Young had to win their way past multiple solid teams to get this spot - beating out LGD, Newbee, Ehome AND VGJ in head to heads to get this qualifier.

Another shocker here. Clutch Gamers not only takes the qual, but only drops a single game the entire circuit, and beating out Faceless in a total of 4-1 in TWO best of 3s.

No surprises here. Thunderbirds, while technically a new team, is the old Digital Chaos team in its entirety. They blazed through without even dropping a single game, which given that Team NP was the only other real competition, isn't particularly surprising.

[Keld Denar]

Well, since this thread isn't that old and there are no other dedicated DotA threads, I figure this is as good a space as any.

Are there like, no player vs bot games anymore? I've been stuck in queue now 20+ minutes for AP - Unfair default bots to get some practice in on a few heroes I haven't played in ages and I don't like playing solo bot games because whether or not you win depends on your team's AI picks (not all AI are equal...far from it).

So, anyone else experience this? Any ideas?

[Akisa]

Well, since this thread isn't that old and there are no other dedicated DotA threads, I figure this is as good a space as any.

Are there like, no player vs bot games anymore? I've been stuck in queue now 20+ minutes for AP - Unfair default bots to get some practice in on a few heroes I haven't played in ages and I don't like playing solo bot games because whether or not you win depends on your team's AI picks (not all AI are equal...far from it).

So, anyone else experience this? Any ideas?

Well I been playing a few bots I believe some of the boys are split up due to the different workshop que. I also played hard bots and not really unfair bots. Oh btw f Viper bot.

(I'm 1k srub tier please be kind).

[Anteros]

If I could give one piece of advice, it would be to just forget bot matches and play real games. I have a friend who has social anxiety but enjoys Dota. As a result he's logged something like 1000+ hours against the bots. Which is fine if that's what you enjoy...but he hasn't gotten any better in that entire time. Or at least not the way he would have improved against real players. You'll learn a lot more against real people.

Mute them if you're worried about getting flamed and get in there!

[Bucky]

Offline bot matches are good for practicing technical minutae like pulling, animation-cancelling and last hitting. They aren't so good for anything that has to do with strategy.

[calvinn]

Of course!
I was amazed when I saw how many people play dota 2 (https://dmarket.com/blog/dota2-audience/). And this after so many years and the appearance of such a huge number of different
games