Warlock and Big groups, dont know what to do.

[LordSamuel]

So, here is the problem. I am quite new(aswell as whole my party, exept DM) to D&D, we started from 5e and at first time it was quite bad, but now is ok, everyone understands how to play the game properly and etc

the main problem is - we have party of 8 players, including me. All of us are unique classes(no 2 wizzards, or barbarians in a party - everyone has its own class). And, i really like Warlock class, for me its like best option. The problem is - i am feeling...well..not good enough compare to other players.
Our party is
Wizard Abjuration
Ranger(UA version) Slayer
Bard Whisperers(UA collegue)
Sorcerer Wild Magic
Cleric Life domain
Rogue Smachbucker
Warrior Eldrich Knight

And i chose to be Warlock of Raven Queen, to at least feel myself somehome unique, compare to others. But the are 2 main problems -
1. All aspects of the games already been taken by other players - Ranger is Scout, Wizard specialist on Arcane things, Sorc aswell + he is alchemist and Poisoner and etc. Every single Roleplaying or battle role have been already taken, and i dont know mostly what to do.(but still i want to play exactly Warlock, WITHOUT using multiclass feature)
2. At the other side you could say - but hey! you have Spell slots per short rest, while Sorc and Wizard not. But the second problem is - Sorc can replenish his SpSl using Sorc points, aswell as wizard can(even though its just 1 per day ability). But why did i mentioned this? - We are party of 8 players. we have a lot of short rests, yes, but there are not enough battles for us. For a good reason, too much battles for us is very exhausting as a players, and our cap is like 4-5 battles per day. Cause of this, our Magic-based classes dont really feel such problems with Spell Slots, and just almost freely spams all the spells they wish to cast.

So, i just dont know what to do. I like the whole Idea of Warlock, especialy the Raven Queen one. but my Patron just keeps silient and restricts me to speak about her with other PC or NPC. DM said he have a plans with my patron, but it will be in long way, like near the end of a Campain.
The only class that i would really like to play is a summoner type of a class, but Necromancer school is restritced, due the main Quest is about Orcus and by the Lore of our world - necromancy is a pure evil and eveyone who rises undead should be killed instantly. Aswell as i just dont want to ruin the whole fun for my friends adding much more allied targets, that will use their own rolls, and etc, even if it would be a 1 roll for a group of summons. Our timespending for such thing already is quite huge, dont want to expend it even more.

[MrStabby]

I feel for you.

8 players is a lot and even if you did find a role it would probably be by taking it from somebody else.

My suggestion would be to split the party. There are a couple of ways to do this. One is the same DM does both - a large burden but somewhat possible. Alternatively you could offer to DM a second session.

These groups can be in the same world working towards the same objectives and by meeting up periodically people can even swap between two groups. If DMs want to play as well then it becomes possible if they join the other group.

Honestly - I think you wont find a fix to an 8 player game that leaves everyone at the table happy.

[Malifice]

So, here is the problem. I am quite new(aswell as whole my party, exept DM) to D&D, we started from 5e and at first time it was quite bad, but now is ok, everyone understands how to play the game properly and etc

the main problem is - we have party of 8 players, including me. All of us are unique classes(no 2 wizzards, or barbarians in a party - everyone has its own class). And, i really like Warlock class, for me its like best option. The problem is - i am feeling...well..not good enough compare to other players.
Our party is
Wizard Abjuration
Ranger(UA version) Slayer
Bard Whisperers(UA collegue)
Sorcerer Wild Magic
Cleric Life domain
Rogue Smachbucker
Warrior Eldrich Knight

And i chose to be Warlock of Raven Queen, to at least feel myself somehome unique, compare to others. But the are 2 main problems -
1. All aspects of the games already been taken by other players - Ranger is Scout, Wizard specialist on Arcane things, Sorc aswell + he is alchemist and Poisoner and etc. Every single Roleplaying or battle role have been already taken, and i dont know mostly what to do.(but still i want to play exactly Warlock, WITHOUT using multiclass feature)
2. At the other side you could say - but hey! you have Spell slots per short rest, while Sorc and Wizard not. But the second problem is - Sorc can replenish his SpSl using Sorc points, aswell as wizard can(even though its just 1 per day ability). But why did i mentioned this? - We are party of 8 players. we have a lot of short rests, yes, but there are not enough battles for us. For a good reason, too much battles for us is very exhausting as a players, and our cap is like 4-5 battles per day. Cause of this, our Magic-based classes dont really feel such problems with Spell Slots, and just almost freely spams all the spells they wish to cast.

So, i just dont know what to do. I like the whole Idea of Warlock, especialy the Raven Queen one. but my Patron just keeps silient and restricts me to speak about her with other PC or NPC. DM said he have a plans with my patron, but it will be in long way, like near the end of a Campain.
The only class that i would really like to play is a summoner type of a class, but Necromancer school is restritced, due the main Quest is about Orcus and by the Lore of our world - necromancy is a pure evil and eveyone who rises undead should be killed instantly. Aswell as i just dont want to ruin the whole fun for my friends adding much more allied targets, that will use their own rolls, and etc, even if it would be a 1 roll for a group of summons. Our timespending for such thing already is quite huge, dont want to expend it even more.

You are literally the only short rest-based class in the entire party. Even the Eldritch Knight is a 50-50 class between short and long rests.

Even with 4 to 5 encounters per day your party chock-a-block full of spell casters is going to have a ton of resources to throw out. You can afford to have one class nova the hell out of an encounter every single encounter and still have a bit leftover.

Firstly I advise you to lay hex on in your first combat and then try to short rest as soon as you can afterwards. Your hex spell will persist throughout the short rest and through subsequent encounters. That frees up a spell slot for you.

Secondly you may want to rethink your invocations. Invocations that allows you to alter form at will can be priceless, and can also be incredibly potent given a smart player.

Failing that if you can't beat them join them. Start taking levels in sorcerer. Shadow Sorcerer fits the fluff perfectly.

[Malifice]

What do you mean by that?

Do you never spread an in-story day over several real-life sessions? This is apparently a common mistake, somehow.

Or is it that the characters wouldn't survive a 6th battle before taking a long rest?

So much this.

It shocks me how many Dungeon Masters conflate 'a long rest of 8 hours' with 'the end of the session'.

[Millstone85]

So much this.

It shocks me how many Dungeon Masters conflate 'a long rest of 8 hours' with 'the end of the session'.Sorry, accidentally erased my post. Don't ask.

[LordSamuel]

What do you mean by that?

Do you never spread an in-story day over several real-life sessions? This is apparently a common mistake, somehow.

Or is it that the characters wouldn't survive a 6th battle before taking a long rest?

I mean that for 1 day 4-6 battles(depends on difficulty of them) is our cap both as a Players and PC - at the end we just without spellsslots and wont survive new encounter if only it wont be weak one.


Yes, we all sticking together almost all the time( as a PC), and just dont want to split for a long-terms(well, most of the party wants that)

And i like my character, Its Yuan-Ti Booklock that have 2 sides within him, that fights with each other - Yuan-ti nature and Raven Queen loyalty, as to her, as to her ideology.

And its not just question of that i cant left my friends to find another group. It would be interesting for me to play with a people that i dont know. it would be more interesting. But i am living in Ukraine, and D&D here is VERY.....VEEEEEERRRYY unpopular. its like 3-5 groups maybe playing D&D in a town where i live. and i dont think that my English is good enough to play good with english speaking players

[LordSamuel]

I feel for you.

8 players is a lot and even if you did find a role it would probably be by taking it from somebody else.

My suggestion would be to split the party. There are a couple of ways to do this. One is the same DM does both - a large burden but somewhat possible. Alternatively you could offer to DM a second session.

Honestly - I think you wont find a fix to an 8 player game that leaves everyone at the table happy.

unfortunatly we cant split - just DM cant handle it. and his Story is based on a single team. i cant ask him to change whole his plans for that.

Yes, it is true, and ironicly, the only person that is unsatisfied - Me. but i think it was my problem
I helped a lot to others advicing them how they could play their characters exactly that way, that they wished to, but couldnt managed(as example, our ranger wanted to feel himself a master of a hunt, a guy that focuses on Wild nature, hunts down the dragons and etc. So i convinced the DM to use UA for our game(he wanted to play just clear 5e without any bonus modules) and recommended to a friend to check out UA version of a ranger, and he was very happy to use it. and i made such things almost to every single partymember. so now they are all really unique and hitting their own role perfecty, and now i understand that i forgot to think about myself, so now trying to fix it somehow, but jsut dont know how.

[LordSamuel]

So much this.

It shocks me how many Dungeon Masters conflate 'a long rest of 8 hours' with 'the end of the session'.

Its not 100% of the time we have Long rest at the end of the session, but most of them. Still long rests fixing wont fix my problem, i would even say it will create even worse one - Wizzard and Sorc will have even more power than before.

we are still lvl 6, and our progression is...slow

[d20familiar]

What about reliable non-combat flight in the raven form? What about the speaking with the dead thingy of Raven Queen Tomelock?

[Mandragola]

So 8 players is simply way too many. Dnd works best for parties half that size. Fundamentally, you’re limited to 12.5% of the limelight. It's not a problem with your warlock - your party could afford to lose any of its members without much of a problem.

You’d be much better off just starting a second group. Either DM yourself or see if someone else would like to.

Your DM will cope – easily. He’s likely to be the happiest person once he has a reasonable number of people to work with.

[Unoriginal]

Its not 100% of the time we have Long rest at the end of the session, but most of them. Still long rests fixing wont fix my problem, i would even say it will create even worse one - Wizzard and Sorc will have even more power than before.

we are still lvl 6, and our progression is...slow

What are you talking about?

If there is no long rest at the end of the session, then there is no more power for the Wiz and Sorc dudes.

And adventuring day is supposed to challenge the PCs, have them spend their ressources. If you can only have 3-4 fights per session, then an adventuring day should be worth ~2 sessions.

[LordSamuel]

What about reliable non-combat flight in the raven form? What about the speaking with the dead thingy of Raven Queen Tomelock?
Flight is ok, but there wasnt even a single chance to make that useful. sometimes Ranger wasnt happy about, because he wanted to be scout, and saying something like "What the point of me then, if you just can freely scout all the things! i dont want to play then, whats the point for me!" so i giving him such opportunity. Most of the time i just fill the missing role, when we are not playing in full group(someone didnt come to play)


So 8 players is simply way too many. Dnd works best for parties half that size. Fundamentally, you’re limited to 12.5% of the limelight. It's not a problem with your warlock - your party could afford to lose any of its members without much of a problem.

You’d be much better off just starting a second group. Either DM yourself or see if someone else would like to.

Your DM will cope – easily. He’s likely to be the happiest person once he has a reasonable number of people to work with.

The problem is that we are quite close friends and just most of them dont want to play without another. so even if someone dies, new PC enters the game.

What are you talking about?

If there is no long rest at the end of the session, then there is no more power for the Wiz and Sorc dudes.

And adventuring day is supposed to challenge the PCs, have them spend their ressources. If you can only have 3-4 fights per session, then an adventuring day should be worth ~2 sessions.

I mean just sometimes session start closer to the end of the day and we starting from a long rest. Just Rsting system is ok for everyone, exept exactly warlock cant shine under such conditions

[Asmotherion]

You are unique in that you can customise your character to be whatever you want it to be. The first approach to this would be through at-will invocations, like Mask of Many Faces. Who else can infiltrate as well as you, wile you can literally look like anybody? Who else can cast Silent Image all day? Who else can pack at-will Ranged damage by level 2 as well as you can? Sure, others may be better in their respective domains, but your true potential is hidden through spamming your abilities like nobody else can. Provide constant concealment with your Silent Image, or distractions; Cast Darkness and then dominate a fight with at-will advantage via Devil Sight.

The reason why I love the Warlock Class so much is because you can make your own theme. Be the Illusionist, The Darkness Lurker, The Eldritch Blaster from Above. Or be the bitter mercenery eldritch blast sniper than covers the other casters by Repelling Eldritch blasting anyone comming in melee with them through ready actions. The Warlock plays well with out of the box thinking. Sure, you can spam Eldritch Blast every round, but it's more fun to do so wile you use your various other talends according to the situation.

[Crusher]

Flight is ok, but there wasnt even a single chance to make that useful. sometimes Ranger wasnt happy about, because he wanted to be scout, and saying something like "What the point of me then, if you just can freely scout all the things! i dont want to play then, whats the point for me!" so i giving him such opportunity. Most of the time i just fill the missing role, when we are not playing in full group(someone didnt come to play)



The problem is that we are quite close friends and just most of them dont want to play without another. so even if someone dies, new PC enters the game.


I mean just sometimes session start closer to the end of the day and we starting from a long rest. Just Rsting system is ok for everyone, exept exactly warlock cant shine under such conditions

I'm not as familiar with the UA options or the Raven Queen patron, but a Fiend-lock would almost certainly be the party's expert on infernal issues (Demons, Devils and what's generally going on with extra-planar stuff). Could you talk to the DM about doing something similar? What's the Raven Queen's area of interest? Is there a way that could be juxtaposed with how your campaign is set up, making you the expert in some particular subject that isn't directly Arcane?

[Armored Walrus]

sometimes Ranger wasnt happy about, because he wanted to be scout, and saying something like "What the point of me then, if you just can freely scout all the things! i dont want to play then, whats the point for me!" so i giving him such opportunity.

Yet another thread that isn't really a D&D question, but a personal relationships question. But I'll give a tactical wargame answer to this anyway. What 8-person platoon of soldiers is going to rely on only one scout, scouting from only one vantage point? There's no reason you can't both be scouting and uncovering different information. The ranger is going to be able to let the party know there are kobold tracks, and point out tripwires and pits, discover, sniff and feel the spawn of the beast you're tracking and tell the party how close you are getting. The flying warlock is going to be able to tell the party that the terrain is about to change, that there is a large group of armed humanoids about 500 feet ahead, that the city is 'that way' but it's flying a different flag than the last time you came this way.

But more importantly, if your friends just aren't good at sharing, then there is no D&D answer you can get that will change that.

I will jump on the bandwagon regarding more encounters per long rest. Sure, your other party members are out of resources by the time the 6th and 7th encounter happens. That's the point. Give them a handful of battles where they've all blown their abilities, and you're the only one left with any juice - you can pull their bacon out of the fire, or fight a delaying action while they reach a safe place to long rest at. After a few of those, they'll hold off on nuking everything they see and give you a little more room in the earlier encounters, because they'll have learned that they shouldn't just spam everything, 'just in case'.

[Silfazaris]

For the sake of the story I made a Warlock NPC in my game. One day the players were complaining that she was useless in combat because she was only using Eldritch Blast. I gave her some nice spells and started to use the spell without fearing not being able to cast again later, although I did not spend all slots in a single battle. As a warlock yourself, try to be useful to your party. Stick with spells the wizard and the sorcerer don't have. Hunger of Hadar is a nice spell, it obscures vision, slows the enemies and deals damage, get that. I'm not familiar with the Raven Queen path because I read the UAs just once for curiosity (we don't use UA stuff in our games), but try that. Greater Invisibility is good so you can attack with advantage all the time. Get some ritual spells to aid your group. There's always something you can do that your party is not able to do. Try to be unique with abilities so you feel more useful to the party.

[Captain Morgan]

Have you considered a Bladelock? Hexblade still ties your flavor to the Raven Queen and your party has less tanks than it has casters. The UA smite invocations could make you the king of nova damage.

There's a lot of stuff worth echoing up above, especially that you just have too many players. But I think you could try to focus on combos with your fellow players. 5e's concentration rules have made it a lot harder for a single Caster to layer multiple effects on to people. Figure out what your teammates have access to, and how you can combine effects. If enemies are making strength checks to bust out of web, Hex them. Add Hunger of Hadar to an over where a cleric wants to place spiritual guardian so they don't even realize they are walking into a trap. Grab the Repelling Blast invocation so when an enemy escapes your murder zone you can shove them back in, and they can be hurt more than once by things like Wall of Fire. Utilizing this approach will help you conserve your spell slots as well, if you only let them off when they will combo with a team mate.

[Steampunkette]

Honestly? With that party composition you're not going to have a role exclusive to you. Most characters won't.

My suggestion is to not seek a role. Don't think of it as finding a specific niche. Use your powers differently from other characters. Don't throw the fireball into the middle of the enemy group to kill a mess of them, drop your Hunger of Hadar on one side of the battlefield to make it somewhere the bad guys don't stand. Don't swing your sword in the hopes of proving you're a melee with the pact of the blade: Look for the lever that drops the drawbridge and use flight to get to it.

I play in a game as a Hexblade warlock who constantly feels overshadowed by the Forge Cleric with the strength of 20, the Ranger with the Dex of 20, and the Wizard with the Intelligence of 18. The only role I really have in the party is "Face" but because we're in a mage-hating area where half elves are considered an abomination my character gains disadvantage on most Charisma checks.

So what do I do in combat? I deny people. I don't stand and fight against the goblin horde, I throw out a Fear spell to make some of them flee. I don't charge out the main gate when the enemy bashes it in, I set their battering ram on fire and help to brace the door. I use Move Earth (Cantrip) to create a 5ft deep, 5ft wide "Pothole" in the road to flip the wagon the villain is using to escape. I don't eldritch blast because of the awesome damage, I do it to push people around the battlefield to compromise their positions, or set up the Wizard for his fireballs.

Your role on the team? Troubleshooter. You've got some skills, some magic, some mystical abilities, and some combat-training. You are what the Bard would be if he wasn't too busy trying to support everyone else with buffing spells and cheerful songs.

Look for, and create, opportunities to change the battlefield. Watch for gates that can close, traps enemies can be moved into, ledges that can be occupied, and ways to make the weakest spells in the game (Cantrips) into devastating weapons.