How does a permanent true polymorph end?

[NecroDancer]

Assuming I'm a 17th level warlock and I've cast true polymorph and became a ki'rin PERMANENTLY. After a few week I decide that I wanted to be a warlock again so I ask my buds to drop me to zero hp.

Once I hit zero hp as a permanent ki'rin do I revert back to my original shape? Or do I only revert if I get a dispel magic successfully cast on me?

The reason I'm asking this is if my warlock becomes level 17 I think my party would enjoy becoming dragons/fiends/angels/kobolds and fighting to the death but not becoming stuck as a dragon/feind/Angel/kobold.

[clash]

The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation becomes permanent.

There are two parts to this statement.

1. For the duration of the spell the transformation ends if the target drops to 0 hp or dies.

2. If you concentrate on it for the full duration it becomes permanent.

Notice the duration of the spell doesn't become permanent the transformation does. Dropping to 0 hp after this point or even dying wouldn't revert it after that point is how I read it.

Dispel magic reads: Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends
However from the reading above the spell is no longer on the target, the spell has ended the target is simply not what it used to be. So I don't think dispel magic would end it.

I would say the only way to revert back to your original form is to cast true polymorph again and transform back.

[Contrast]

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/permanent-true-polymorph/

Edit - Also in my googling, aparently more recent versions of the PHB changed permanent to 'until dispelled'.

Edit 2 - Just to clarify, the SRD version of the spell says 'If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled'.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Once I hit zero hp as a permanent ki'rin do I revert back to my original shape? Or do I only revert if I get a dispel magic successfully cast on me?

Permanent is permanent. You're a ki'rin now and if you hit 0HP, you start making death saves. You can't be reverted by Dispel Magic either, because there's no magic to dispel. The True Polymorph spell's "full duration" is 1 hour; after that the transformation is complete.

The only way back is another True Polymorph (or possibly Wish). You wouldn't have any class levels, though.

Edit due to ninja: I'd ignore sage advice if it says you can dispel this. That's just dumb.

[Millstone85]

I'd ignore sage advice if it says you can dispel this. That's just dumb.It is not just sage advice, it is an erratum.

Edit: One that doesn't appear in the errata pdf, just recent printings.

I hate those.

[DivisibleByZero]

Edit due to ninja: I'd ignore sage advice if it says you can dispel this. That's just dumb.

It's not dumb.
You were transformed by magic.
It doesn't matter how long that magic lasts, permanent or not, it's magic.
Remove that magic, remove the transformation.

[Ninja_Prawn]

It's not dumb.
You were transformed by magic.
It doesn't matter how long that magic lasts, permanent or not, it's magic.
Remove that magic, remove the transformation.

So can you dispel a zombie? An awakened tree? An elemental? Can Dispel Magic cancel a Wish after it's been processed or disenchant a magic item? A sorcerer was born with magic - can their blood be dispelled?

For me, once a spell's duration has ended, it shouldn't be possible to dispel it.

[DivisibleByZero]

So can you dispel a zombie? An awakened tree? An elemental? Can Dispel Magic cancel a Wish after it's been processed or disenchant a magic item? A sorcerer was born with magic - can their blood be dispelled?

For me, once a spell's duration has ended, it shouldn't be possible to dispel it.

Your examples do not have a duration, they are instantaneous.
Permanent magic is still magic.
Any magic that has a duration other than Instantaneous can be dispelled, unless otherwise specified in the spell's description. And yes, that even applies to permanent magics.

[NecroDancer]

Actually it makes sense to dispel an Elemental with dispel magic assuming it was brought to your plane by magic (if it came though a portal dispel magic couldn't dispel it). The same makes sense for a zombie (dispelling the magic that drives it).

As for dispelling a wish I can see how that might not make sense.

[Zalabim]

Just compare it to Wall of Stone that says, "If you maintain your concentration on this spell for its whole duration, the wall becomes permanent and can't be dispelled."

[KorvinStarmast]

Edit due to ninja: I'd ignore sage advice if it says you can dispel this. That's just dumb. Not just sage advice.
Rules errata.
Read the free SRD version 5.1, page 188. The text is explicit.

If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the transformation lasts until it is dispelled. All of the more recent printings of the PHB have that text, though "First Printing" does not. (I have the original).

[hymer]

(I have the original).

Oh, I'm so sorry. I hope it will turn out all-right for you.

[KorvinStarmast]

Oh, I'm so sorry. I hope it will turn out all-right for you. Hmm, maybe I should have said "I got the PHB first printing" ... and yes, the binding came apart. I recently put all of the pages into a loose leaf notebook.

[hymer]

Hmm, maybe I should have said "I got the PHB first printing" ... and yes, the binding came apart. I recently put all of the pages into a loose leaf notebook.

It was the binding I was commiserating about. :smallsmile:

[KorvinStarmast]

It was the binding I was commiserating about. :smallsmile: Yeah, the DMG and MM didn't manifest that "uh, we gooned up on the glue" deal. (A friend who got a later printing reports all is well ...) One of the nice things about putting it all into a loose leaf notebook is that I also put the Errata and sage advice article into the notebook, so it's all in one place.

[Sigreid]

Hmm, maybe I should have said "I got the PHB first printing" ... and yes, the binding came apart. I recently put all of the pages into a loose leaf notebook.

You should hunt down the dastardly wizard that dipelled your permanent binding.

[RickAllison]

I would like to point out why zombies don't go away when you cast Dispel Magic on them. In the lore, what you are doing is opening up a bridge to the Negative Plane and imbibing the body with nega-life. While it is magic that keeps the zombie standing (I think), it is the magic of the Negative Plane rather than the caster. The caster is basically an electrician who ensures the negative energy goes where it should, but you need to dispel the negative energy to dispel the undead. Just like you can't cast Dispel Magic on a person animated by "in D&D terms) positive energy and kill them.

[Vogonjeltz]

Assuming I'm a 17th level warlock and I've cast true polymorph and became a ki'rin PERMANENTLY. After a few week I decide that I wanted to be a warlock again so I ask my buds to drop me to zero hp.

Once I hit zero hp as a permanent ki'rin do I revert back to my original shape? Or do I only revert if I get a dispel magic successfully cast on me?

The reason I'm asking this is if my warlock becomes level 17 I think my party would enjoy becoming dragons/fiends/angels/kobolds and fighting to the death but not becoming stuck as a dragon/feind/Angel/kobold.

Congratulations, you're now an NPC!

This condition can end if dispelled, the same as any other permanent magical condition. You could also enter an anti-magic field to temporarily suppress it.

Death at this point will simply result in you being dead. No change to form.